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The Park Place Build - Page 2

post #31 of 54
The window "traps" bass by letting it out. Closing it negates that free "trapping" completely. I don't want to put words in Dennis's mouth, but his point is slightly tongue-in-cheek - demonstrating that there is more than one way to skin a cat, but every choice you make has consequences - sometimes the unintended consequences work for you, and sometimes against.
post #32 of 54
Thread Starter 
Very philosophical, HF - I like it.

So by eliminating an unwanted light source, I also do away with a "free" acoustic treatment. I imagine if I sound treatments are done right, the loss of the "trap" can be compensated.

In terms of seating, the distances from my screen wall are going to be 11.5 feet and 16 ft. If I go with a 115" screen and using the 1.5X screen width rule, does that mean the second row has to be my "prime" viewing seat?
post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by saysomething View Post

In terms of seating, the distances from my screen wall are going to be 11.5 feet and 16 ft. If I go with a 115" screen and using the 1.5X screen width rule, does that mean the second row has to be my "prime" viewing seat?

Depends. Where do you like sitting in an actual movie theater?

I am putting in a 120" wide 2.35:1 screen. Primary seat will be about 10-11 feet back. I like to sit in the first third of the theater and this approximates what i'll be seeing. If I followed a 1.5X rule, I'd be sitting back 15 feet. While this wouldn't be bad, its not simulating the viewing distance I'd prefer in an actual theater.

I think you'll find that THX recommendations would be alot less than 1.5X for ideal. I would more likely use 2X height than 1.5X Width
post #34 of 54
Thread Starter 
I lean towards the more immersive; Mrs P prefers the 2/3 - 3/4 distance. Guess where we end up sitting? smile.gif

So if I place speakers and use AT for the second row, how much will sound suffer for the first row? Obviously there a lot of variables here - I guess to rephrase...in qualitative terms, how would the average person's listening experience differ while sitting in each row? Would it be bordering on unbearable for an audiophile?
post #35 of 54
Thread Starter 
Surely someone must have a multi row theater and has watched a film from a non-prime seat.
post #36 of 54
Thread Starter 
okay then...I've read some threads that advise to place the LCR tweeter height between the ears of the 2 rows. I think I'm going to go with this, and if it doesn't work, I only build up the stands or chop them down like that of a lumberjack.

Now if I could pick your brains regarding the HVAC. My room's dimensions are 12' x 21' x 9'. Will a single dead vent to the hallway or utility room provide adequate ventilation for this size of room? I do have a supply and return line overhead but would rather not have to tap into them. Is my only other choice a mini split?

My wife and I are not marathon movie watchers; however, my equipment will be located inside the room. Do I need to address the ventilation for the equipment independently?
post #37 of 54
I'm not in a position to give you complete advice, but no - a single dead vent will be totally inadequate for that room - especially if equipment exhaust is staying in the room (even if it's not).

Some people say a mini-split is a top-notch choice, no matter your options. I would encourage you to look into the logistics and cost of adding on to your existing system.
post #38 of 54
If you do not properly address the cooling requirement for that space, you'll find yourself never using it...and, no, a single dead vent isn't going to help anything.
post #39 of 54
Thread Starter 
Thanks, HF and DE. I'd rather not tap into the main house supply and return so am trying to find alternatives. What about the following:

-2 adequately sized bathroom fans: 1 above the equipment room and 1 behind the projector
-2 dead vents: 1 return and 1 supply

I have the first hvac contractor coming by tonight to give me a quote on a 1 tonne mini split with the outdoor unit off the ground and the indoor part to be on the back wall of the HT. The run would be about 10 feet total.
post #40 of 54
Will a Mini-split do *anything* regarding keeping the air fresh? I mean, I know it will cool the air but thats all right? Also, Does a Mini-split do anything for heat?

My room is 12 x 24 x 8 and I did two dead vents with fans(1 supply 1 return) and exchange air with the rest of the basement. The Fans are FG6XLs and they move ALOT of air. In fact they seem a bit loud even at their slowest speed.
This was according to Ted White's suggestion. Don't yet know how this will be regarding cooling / heating, but the room is below grade and the equipment (except for the subwoofer amp and the projector) is located outside of the room.
post #41 of 54
Thread Starter 
You bring up a good point, F. I was thinking if I go the route of a mini split, that's all that I would need overlooking the need for a return. What are the consequences of a pressurized room?

Re - heating needs, I would be getting a unit that provides both cold air and heat (down to a certain outside temp ~ -15C).
post #42 of 54
I'm looking at a mini-split in a heat pump version (climate is very temperate here). Also, looking at a ducted type, where the air handler is external to the room, in a duct somewhere.
post #43 of 54
You won't get the proper air flow if you don't have a return... especially if construction is as tight as a theater usually is. I imagine it could result in doors slamming closed.

A mini-split will not address fresh air.

In my own theater I chose to zone off the whole house A/C. The fresh air is introduced through the central A/C since even though it is pushing air just into the basement, it is always pulling air from the entire house. I've wired for a mini-split, and that will be supplemental.

There are some pretty ingenious members who have done different things to address fresh air. AFAIK they all include two dead vents and usually panasonic whisper quiet inline fans. Some have contemplated an ERV system.. not sure anybody has actually pulled the trigger on one.

Tim
post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

You won't get the proper air flow if you don't have a return... especially if construction is as tight as a theater usually is. I imagine it could result in doors slamming closed.
A mini-split will not address fresh air.
In my own theater I chose to zone off the whole house A/C. The fresh air is introduced through the central A/C since even though it is pushing air just into the basement, it is always pulling air from the entire house. I've wired for a mini-split, and that will be supplemental.
There are some pretty ingenious members who have done different things to address fresh air. AFAIK they all include two dead vents and usually panasonic whisper quiet inline fans. Some have contemplated an ERV system.. not sure anybody has actually pulled the trigger on one.
Tim

Whatever you choose you definitely want a good quality fan because when that sucker dies you need to break into that double drywalled box!
post #45 of 54
Thread Starter 
I meant to thank Ted White and John Hile earlier on in this thread - sorry guys. The service I received from them was top-notch; their prices were competitive with local suppliers even after duty and shipping; and the shipment arrived on time even though I ordered on election day and after Sandy did her damage. I fully understand the sentiments on these boards regarding The Soundproofing Company. Thanks again!

I'm taking delivery of my projector and screen today. Christmas in November! I went with the X30 because the price was right, and I don't care too much for 3D. The screen is an EluneVision 4k AT 110" wide, Scope, 1.15 gain. Interested to see if this screen can compete with its competitors at double the price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcaico View Post

Whatever you choose you definitely want a good quality fan because when that sucker dies you need to break into that double drywalled box!

This crossed my mind (even surprising myself!) which had me thinking access panels, but then the soundproofing done on the phone booth would be mitigated; however, if the space outside the theater where the dead vent exhausts (or intakes) is not sound sensitive, couldn't the fan be positioned at the end of the ducting where it would be way more accessible? I'm assuming Ted's manuals show the fan in the middle because it would be smack in the middle of all the absorptive/damping material.

I got a couple of quotes on the supply and install of a mini split heat pump - both were $4000 CAD (that's like a couple of bucks US wink.gif) The specs are 12000 btu, 1 zone; the install involves a pipe run of ~ 15-20 ft, drain line about 8-10 ft into my sump pump, outdoor unit off the ground. I'm convinced the margin on these quotes is close to 50% after all costs. But they have bills to pay and mouths to feed like everybody else...errr, I guess.
post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by saysomething View Post

This crossed my mind (even surprising myself!) which had me thinking access panels, but then the soundproofing done on the phone booth would be mitigated; however, if the space outside the theater where the dead vent exhausts (or intakes) is not sound sensitive, couldn't the fan be positioned at the end of the ducting where it would be way more accessible? I'm assuming Ted's manuals show the fan in the middle because it would be smack in the middle of all the absorptive/damping material.

Yes. You are correct. I wish I had realized this before my contractor completed the vents, but if I had to do it all over again I probably would position the fans much closer to the outside of the theater room (rather than the middle of the vent). I beleive positioning the fan in the center is a compromise between putting the noise of the fan in one room or the other.
post #47 of 54
The fan for my dead vent is located at the end of the run outside of the soundproofed box. It's in an adjacent storage room so I wasn't worried about the fan noise disturbing anyone. It's very quiet regardless though.
post #48 of 54
Thread Starter 
Thanks, guys!

A few more questions regarding dead vents: I'll be building a screen wall using 2x2s and GOM fabric, and I'm considering placing the supply vent so that it would exhaust into this space. Will the air be adequately pushed through the fabric into the rest of the room? The return vent would be along the back wall of the theater.

Also, being so close to the LCR and subs, will the soundproofing stand a chance?
post #49 of 54
I dont think the soundproofing will be much different. I have my return vent behind the AT screen wall as well. Ted White has (I beleive) both of his vents behind the screen.
post #50 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by saysomething View Post

...and I'm considering placing the supply vent so that it would exhaust into this space. Will the air be adequately pushed through the fabric into the rest of the room?.
I've never seen this done, and when it's suggested, Dennis always asks if you want your screen to be a filter for your HVAC system? He does not recommend it.
post #51 of 54
Fred beat me to it.. I was going to ask if you ever looked up at ceiling diffusers and noticed all the nasty junk stuck to them. Seems like it could make a mess of the screen wall.

Tim
post #52 of 54
Thread Starter 
This is the reason I love this forum! The knowledge and experience of other members is what inspired me to take on this project. Thanks!

Okay so I thought I had everything figured out....dead vent in hallway exhausting just in front of my screen wall + dead vent in utility room at the back of the theater drawing out the warm air...all kiboshed by Mrs P because she thinks the dead vent in the hallway will be ghastly.

Back to the drawing board I go.

I think the answer is soffits. The front and rear would house the supply and return respectively while the sides would be only to match the rest of the room or possibly some can lighting. If I were to go this route, I know I'd have to soundproof the soffits with the ducting, but the sides would not need soundproofing, correct?

What if I wanted to add some cans to the front and rear soffits? Can they coexist with the ducting and insulation?
Would I need to build backer boxes for these cans?
Lastly, should the front soffit be built in front of the screen wall or all the way out from the front wall?

My unopened boxes of GG and clips are staring at me wondering when the heck I'm going to use them lol.
Edited by saysomething - 12/4/12 at 6:53pm
post #53 of 54
Thread Starter 
The last sentence I wrote above could not have been more prophetic seeing as it's been over 4 months since I last posted.

I'm dealing with some a couple of water supply lines running underneath my ceiling joists. How important is it that I have these rerouted? I'm going to be using clips + DD + GG.
post #54 of 54
I've got plumbing in several locations, and I've dealt with in a few different ways - each has its advantages.

One pipe - to only one outside spigot - ran below my joists, perpendicular. I chose to move it because the only other options were to allow move the wall, and that was going to cost me at least six inches in my narrow room. Moving it was pretty easy if you have some experience sweating pipe.

Other supply lines were far enough to the outside that they didn't really represent much of an obstacle, so I just made sure that the ceiling was low enough to clear them - it may have cost me a quarter inch - but maybe not. Depending on the clips and the pipe size, this might be possible for you. I'm not sure what the functional depth of the clips usually is.

Waste/drain pipes running through my space have been a serious challenge. I'm building soffits around them. That makes problems where they enter and exit the space, because wall boards have to be cut to fit tightly around (not touching) them. Being near the wall, they become obstacles for moving the wall boards into position and reaching behind them to apply caulk or drywall finishing. Then you still need to soundproof around them. At this point in my build, I'm not sure if my efforts will be worthwhile, and water running elsewhere in the house may interrupt my viewing - we'll see (hear). On the other hand, moving them would have been a lot of work, as there are three or four drain pipes that all come into my space and join together.

There may be other options, but I don't see them. Pick your poison.
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