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Opinions on my Trinity based HTPC?

post #1 of 35
11/1/12 at 11:11am
Thread Starter 
This is largely based on the Assassin guide, and I chose whatever parts I currently have due to feedback, online ratings of quality, and my particular needs.

Goals for this computer include
- Act as a file server to my network
- Potentially provide me with a way to access my files while out of the house (media streaming as well as general documents)
- Display media directly to my tv through HDMI
- Occasionally stream to my laptop (on the same network), phone, or potential future room mates
- Act as a torrent seedbox (potentially automatically downloading certain items)
- Light gaming: More casual steam titles, console emulation, humble indie bundle type games, probably not a whole lot of major blockbusters but maybe skyrim at low detail or less than 1080p)
- Down the line, potentially act as a home audio server for wireless speaker systems (like Sonos products, still researching this)


Based on those specs, the Assassins guide, and some reviews I have read about the trinity, here is the plan. I went this way because although there may be some gaming, I don't spend that much time playing games. It doesn't make sense for me to build a huge gaming system for what will be a set top box and server 90% of the time.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD A10-5700 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($135.57 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A75 Pro4-M Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($81.97 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($95.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Samsung 830 Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($104.95 @ B&H)
Case: Silverstone SST-GD05B-USB3.0 (Black) HTPC Case ($132.56 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts Green 380W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($41.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (64-bit) ($91.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $738.01
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)


The case is available for much less on places that part picker didn't find (probably around $95). The SSD also regularly drops to the $80-$90 range. Between those two, the price is probably $60 or so less than quoted above. I'm also not really sure if waiting for cyber monday is worth it, given the parts that I have.

I imagine that the system will perform as intended, but I don't know how it will do in regards to noise/heat.
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post #2 of 35
11/1/12 at 11:52am
The case fans are not so quiet (in my taste). Use 5V trick. If you use ASUS F2A85-M PRO mb, you can insert 3 fans to the mb's fan connector and control them via PWM (PWM-Voltage conversion). The stock CPU cooler can't handle A10 at full load properly. I recommend Scythe Big Shuriken.

BTW do people prefer bare DVD/BD drive bezel? GD04 hides the ugly bezel and looks much better in my eyes.
Edited by renethx - 11/1/12 at 12:47pm
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post #3 of 35
11/1/12 at 12:46pm
If you don't need the two PCIe slots, four memory slots and the eSATA port I'd consider saving a few bucks by getting the MSI FM2-A75MA-E35 for $66.97 shipped. I can't understand why there are so many FM2 boards with 2 PCIe slots for sale. Kinda flies in the face of a low power HTPC setup with an APU. Even Asrock has a board with just a single PCIe slot (FM2A75M-DGS) but nobody sells it yet.

Guy
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post #4 of 35
11/1/12 at 1:03pm
Thread Starter 
quote name="renethx" url="/t/1436824/opinions-on-my-trinity-based-htpc#post_22547295"]The case fans are not so quiet (in my taste). Use 5V trick. If you use ASUS F2A85-M PRO mb, you can insert 3 fans to the mb's fan connector and control them via PWM (PWM-Voltage conversion). The stock CPU cooler can't handle A10 at full load properly. I recommend Scythe Big Shuriken.
BTW do people prefer bare DVD/BD drive bezel? GD04 hides the ugly bezel and looks much better in my eyes.[/quote]

Could you clarify what you mean by 5v trick? The reason I didn't go with with the GD04 was because I wasn't sure about adding an optical drive in the future. I'll probably also start without the cpu cooler and see how the machine runs under my normal usage, but I will definitely keep that shuriken in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyLR View Post

If you don't need the two PCIe slots, four memory slots and the eSATA port I'd consider saving a few bucks by getting the MSI FM2-A75MA-E35 for $66.97 shipped. I can't understand why there are so many FM2 boards with 2 PCIe slots for sale. Kinda flies in the face of a low power HTPC setup with an APU. Even Asrock has a board with just a single PCIe slot (FM2A75M-DGS) but nobody sells it yet.
Guy

Thanks for the tip.I actually initially chose the board that I did because it has optical, which I occasionally use (my receiver doesn't support 3d passthrough).
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post #5 of 35
11/1/12 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyLR View Post

I can't understand why there are so many FM2 boards with 2 PCIe slots for sale. Kinda flies in the face of a low power HTPC setup with an APU. Even Asrock has a board with just a single PCIe slot (FM2A75M-DGS) but nobody sells it yet.
Guy

You mean "two PCIe x16 slots" by "two PCIe slots", right? In most cases, the second PCIe x16 slot is x4 electrically. It's there just because PCIe lanes are abundant. smile.gif Having a second PCIe x16 slot is not harmful.

- If you don't use it, it doesn't consume any power.
- If you insert a PCIe x1 device in it, it consumes exactly the same power as inserted in a PCIe x1 slot.
- For example, in case you want to use the mb for a server, you can insert two PCIe x4 host bus adapters for 16 HDDs.
- Another application is "HDMI sound card" (= a cheap HD 5450 card) in case you want to play BR 3D, but your AVR is only HDMI 1.3; connect onboard HDMI to the display for HDMI 1.4a 3D video and the HDMI sound card to AVR for HD audio.
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post #6 of 35
11/1/12 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beelbeel View Post

Could you clarify what you mean by 5v trick?

Get 12V, 7V or 5V for your Fans | silentpcreview.com. In general 7V is not recommended.
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post #7 of 35
11/1/12 at 1:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

- Another application is "HDMI sound card" (= a cheap HD 5450 card) in case you want to play BR 3D, but your AVR is only HDMI 1.3; connect onboard HDMI to the display for HDMI 1.4a 3D video and the HDMI sound card to AVR for HD audio.

That is actually exactly why I currently use optical out. My ps3 connects to my receiver through optical for sound and to my tv for 3d. I know that the optical sound that it delivers is not ideal, but I don't really consider it a dealbreaker.

In the end, I will probably get a newer 3d capable receiver rather than buy a soundcard. My old Harman Kardon acts funny. For the time being, my current setup will work. Thanks for the idea!
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post #8 of 35
11/1/12 at 1:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Get 12V, 7V or 5V for your Fans | silentpcreview.com. In general 7V is not recommended.

Interesting stuff. I'll definitely keep that in mind. Like several other potential enhancements, it is one that I will have to reassess once I build my machine and have observed how it works. Thanks for the info.
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post #9 of 35
11/1/12 at 1:42pm
I'm planning an HTPC build right now also, and yours matches my plans almost exactly. I was a bit concerned about the power draw of the Trinity at full load, but seeing that the A10-5700 65W Trinity looks to only go to about 75 or 80W (as opposed to the 120+ W of the A10-5800K 100W Trinity) was a bit of a relief. I'm interested to see if the stock CPU fan is indeed sufficient for the 65W version.
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post #10 of 35
11/1/12 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beelbeel View Post

Interesting stuff. I'll definitely keep that in mind. Like several other potential enhancements, it is one that I will have to reassess once I build my machine and have observed how it works. Thanks for the info.

I prefer connecting the case fans to mb and control them via PWM. Some mb support PWM to voltage conveter, so you don't have to replace the stock case fans with PWMs. You can use this cable:



for 3-pin fans (no problem, 3 x 0.25A = 0.75A < 1A), or this cable



for 4-pin (i.e. PWM) fans.

Unfortunately ASRock mb supports only PWM mode (i.e. no PWM to voltage converter). Somehow ASRock is considering AMD Trinity as a second-class citizen?

SpeedFan: A Guide to Universal Motherboard Fan Control at Silent PC Review is a must read. Oh, the article lacks how to launch SpeedFan at Windows startup.
Edited by renethx - 11/1/12 at 2:20pm
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post #11 of 35
11/1/12 at 2:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I prefer connecting the case fans to mb and control them via PWM. Some mb support PWM to voltage conveter, so you don't have to replace the stock case fans with PWMs. You can use this cable:

for 3-pin fans (no problem, 3 x 0.25A = 0.75A < 1A), or this cable

for 4-pin (i.e. PWM) fans.
Unfortunately ASRock mb supports only PWM mode (i.e. no PWM to voltage converter). Somehow ASRock is considering AMD Trinity as a second-class citizen?
SpeedFan: A Guide to Universal Motherboard Fan Control at Silent PC Review is a must read. Oh, the article lacks how to launch SpeedFan at Windows startup.

Thanks. I'll give that a read before I take the plunge, given that there seem to be some alternative motherboards that would support that level of control.
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post #12 of 35
11/1/12 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post

I'm planning an HTPC build right now also, and yours matches my plans almost exactly. I was a bit concerned about the power draw of the Trinity at full load, but seeing that the A10-5700 65W Trinity looks to only go to about 75 or 80W (as opposed to the 120+ W of the A10-5800K 100W Trinity) was a bit of a relief. I'm interested to see if the stock CPU fan is indeed sufficient for the 65W version.

Lower the max clock to 2.6GHz at video playback (doing so inside AMD Vision Engine Control Center is convenient because you can even save it as a profile), and voila! the power consumption is dramatically reduced, ~70W even with madVR (compare AanandTech article). At this power consumption, the stock cooler is plenty enough, 1200rpm is close to silence and keeps APU < 45 Celsius degree.
Edited by renethx - 11/1/12 at 2:32pm
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post #13 of 35
11/1/12 at 2:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post

I'm planning an HTPC build right now also, and yours matches my plans almost exactly. I was a bit concerned about the power draw of the Trinity at full load, but seeing that the A10-5700 65W Trinity looks to only go to about 75 or 80W (as opposed to the 120+ W of the A10-5800K 100W Trinity) was a bit of a relief. I'm interested to see if the stock CPU fan is indeed sufficient for the 65W version.

I have posted this in a few places (reddit, anandtech, etc). Nobody has mentioned power consumption as a potential risk, so I am not too worried at the moment.

What specs are you going for?
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post #14 of 35
11/1/12 at 3:01pm
No risk because APU automatically throttles down at certain temperature. smile.gif If you want to draw 100% CPU power from A10 APU, you will surely need a better cooler.
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post #15 of 35
11/1/12 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beelbeel View Post

I have posted this in a few places (reddit, anandtech, etc). Nobody has mentioned power consumption as a potential risk, so I am not too worried at the moment.
What specs are you going for?

Sorry, when I said "power draw" I meant in regards to heat and noise. I've never built an HTPC before, and the last time I built a PC was back in the early Pentium 4 days when AMD actually released processors that performed better than Intel at lower clock speeds. I had a 4500 RPM 60mm CPU fan that was crazy loud on my Athlon XP 1800+.

I guess I just purchased the first part for my build: the Samsung 830 SSD for $80 (see http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436431/samsung-series-830-ssd-128gb-90-amazon). I haven't yet decided on a mobo or case, but everything else looks identical to yours. How is the quality of ASRock? I've never used their mobos before. I'd probably be more comfortable paying a small premium for a board from ASUS, MSI, or Gigabyte. Also I'm not sure I like the look of the Silverstone cases. I like having the round circle that looks like a volume control knob on a receiver.
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post #16 of 35
11/1/12 at 3:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post

Sorry, when I said "power draw" I meant in regards to heat and noise. I've never built an HTPC before, and the last time I built a PC was back in the early Pentium 4 days when AMD actually released processors that performed better than Intel at lower clock speeds. I had a 4500 RPM 60mm CPU fan that was crazy loud on my Athlon XP 1800+.
I guess I just purchased the first part for my build: the Samsung 830 SSD for $80 (see http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436431/samsung-series-830-ssd-128gb-90-amazon). I haven't yet decided on a mobo or case, but everything else looks identical to yours. How is the quality of ASRock? I've never used their mobos before. I'd probably be more comfortable paying a small premium for a board from ASUS, MSI, or Gigabyte. Also I'm not sure I like the look of the Silverstone cases. I like having the round circle that looks like a volume control knob on a receiver.

I see what you guys are saying. For that matter, will your system as a whole run quieter if you have a better cpu cooler? I hadn't even realized that having a nicer cooler would increase performance. Would it increase it substantially?

I was just rereading the Tom's Hardware article on 1080p gaming with these items, and they specifically mention that the trinity stock cooler is loud enough to warrant a warning at a full load. I'll have to see how that is when I build my system, and potentially buy a different cooler.
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post #17 of 35
11/1/12 at 3:23pm
Do you really need Trinity's GPU? Intel's i3 3220 smashes it CPU wise:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/A10-5800K-vs-Core-i3-3220-CPU-Review/1646/19

I'd an i3 3225 with HD 4000, cooler and faster, and enough GPU grunt for what you want to do.
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post #18 of 35
11/1/12 at 3:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

Do you really need Trinity's GPU? Intel's i3 3220 smashes it CPU wise:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/A10-5800K-vs-Core-i3-3220-CPU-Review/1646/19
I'd an i3 3225 with HD 4000, cooler and faster, and enough GPU grunt for what you want to do.


I am still not 100% sure. I get the impression that if I get an intel cpu and use the integrated graphics, I am basically saying that I will not be playing games. If I get the trinity, it seems like it might be an option.

Honestly, I still might go the intel way. I am not sure if I play games enough to justify getting the trinity instead, and if I did, I'm not sure that it's performance would make playing games worth it.
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post #19 of 35
11/1/12 at 3:37pm
Main advantages of Trinity are:

- Low-end sector: A4-5300 supports HDMI 1.4a 3D, while Celeron/Pentium does not.
- Mid-range sector: A8/A10 supports Lancsoz algorithm tap 3/4 + anti-rining filter of madVR for all video formats, while Intel HD Graphics 4k does not.

Perhaps A8-5500 (downclocked at 2.6GHz) is the best bang for your buck if you are interested in madVR up to Lancsoz. MadVR Jinc requires a discrete card (HD 7770 is the minimum), that considerably increases the total cost.
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post #20 of 35
11/1/12 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beelbeel View Post

I am still not 100% sure. I get the impression that if I get an intel cpu and use the integrated graphics, I am basically saying that I will not be playing games. If I get the trinity, it seems like it might be an option.
Honestly, I still might go the intel way. I am not sure if I play games enough to justify getting the trinity instead, and if I did, I'm not sure that it's performance would make playing games worth it.

You can play on low just like you required in your first post. CPU grunt is still more important than GPU grunt. The i3 has that, APU's don't. I got an i3 for this very reason.
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post #21 of 35
11/2/12 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beelbeel View Post

Interesting stuff. I'll definitely keep that in mind. Like several other potential enhancements, it is one that I will have to reassess once I build my machine and have observed how it works. Thanks for the info.

You can also just get a fan controller. I use this one with the PCI slot bracket in the back.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=42&area=en
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post #22 of 35
11/2/12 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

You can play on low just like you required in your first post. CPU grunt is still more important than GPU grunt. The i3 has that, APU's don't. I got an i3 for this very reason.

I also thought about going the i3 with HD4000 route. I think I buy AMD's argument, however, that you won't notice a slower CPU (some tasks taking slightly longer) but you will notice a slower GPU (unplayable frame rate in games). So the only advantage (to me) for the i3 with HD4000 is the lower power draw at peak. Although that is only a concern, again, if the stock cooler is insufficient for the A10-5700. The Trinity appears to be even lower at idle than the i3, so it's not as if power draw is even completely a win for the i3.

Sorry to hijack your thread beelbeel, but our builds and usage scenarios are so similar I think there's no need for me to make a separate thread!
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post #23 of 35
11/2/12 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beelbeel View Post

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($95.99 @ NCIX US)

Does the 8 second park issue concern you at all? It seems enough people have had problems with it, but most seem to be on Linux so I don't know if it's actually a problem as a media drive in a Windows HTPC setup.
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post #24 of 35
11/2/12 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

You mean "two PCIe x16 slots" by "two PCIe slots", right? In most cases, the second PCIe x16 slot is x4 electrically. It's there just because PCIe lanes are abundant. smile.gif Having a second PCIe x16 slot is not harmful.
- If you don't use it, it doesn't consume any power.
- If you insert a PCIe x1 device in it, it consumes exactly the same power as inserted in a PCIe x1 slot.
- For example, in case you want to use the mb for a server, you can insert two PCIe x4 host bus adapters for 16 HDDs.
- Another application is "HDMI sound card" (= a cheap HD 5450 card) in case you want to play BR 3D, but your AVR is only HDMI 1.3; connect onboard HDMI to the display for HDMI 1.4a 3D video and the HDMI sound card to AVR for HD audio.

Thanks for the schooling. I knew the empty slots didn't consume any power without a card in them but for some reason I've never tumbled to the fact that you could stick a PCIe x 1 device in a PCIe x 16 slot. It does still seem pointless to use up all of that board real estate on something that will likely never be used like a second PCIe x 4 video card. I'd rather see boards aimed at HTPC use with fewer PCIe slots and use that space for an mSATA connector.

Guy
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post #25 of 35
11/2/12 at 7:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post

Does the 8 second park issue concern you at all? It seems enough people have had problems with it, but most seem to be on Linux so I don't know if it's actually a problem as a media drive in a Windows HTPC setup.

I'm not familiar with that issue. Could you elaborate?




I'm starting to think about going with intel on this one. The Tomshardware.com article on gaming with the a10-5800k made it seem as though it was just barely passable for most games. Another article that I have read suggests that the 5700 performance takes about a 10% hit, which would mean that games really struggle. If the gaming experience is really bad, I probably won't even want to do it. I can always just play on my ps3 (Right next to the htpc). If I decide to play pc games down the line, I could add a video card of some sorts to my htpc, but I probably should just avoid having a loud gaming machine in my living room.


I'm assuming the i3 can handle things like n64 emulation, right? I could be pretty comfortable limiting my htpc gaming to that sort of thing.
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post #26 of 35
11/2/12 at 7:28am
Even with trinity you aren't going to be able to play a lot of games at acceptable settings. It's a fallacy to think that trinity is legitimate "serious" gaming platform.
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post #27 of 35
11/2/12 at 7:31am
Thread Starter 
Yeah, that's what I have started to realize. I almost wonder what the advantage of it is in any scenario. If the gaming performance blows, I just won't want to play games with it. At that point, Intel seems like the way to go.

I'm going to rebuild. I'm guessing the only changes that I'll make are the mobo, cpu, and ram. Thanks for the feedback, guys.
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post #28 of 35
11/2/12 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post

I think I buy AMD's argument, however, that you won't notice a slower CPU (some tasks taking slightly longer) but you will notice a slower GPU (unplayable frame rate in games). So the only advantage (to me) for the i3 with HD4000 is the lower power draw at peak. Although that is only a concern, again, if the stock cooler is insufficient for the A10-5700. The Trinity appears to be even lower at idle than the i3, so it's not as if power draw is even completely a win for the i3.

Exactly. In most everyday applications, you won't notice the difference between Intel and AMD, you will only when you run benchmarks. As for graphics, the difference is more evident in gaming and complex video processing algorithms.

Anyway, both CPU (serial computing) / GPU (parallel computing) are crappy (smile.gif). If you want real computing power, i5/i7/SNB-E/IVB-E + a discrete graphics card is the way to go.
Edited by renethx - 11/2/12 at 7:45am
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post #29 of 35
11/2/12 at 7:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Exactly. In most everyday applications, you won't notice the difference between Intel and AMD, you will only when you run benchmarks. As for graphics, the difference is more evident in gaming and complex video processing algorithms.
Anyway, both CPU (serial computing) / GPU (parallel computing) are crappy (smile.gif). If you want real computing power, i5/i7/SNB-E/IVY-E + a discrete graphics card is the way to go.

If I was trying to build a solid desktop gaming machine, I would do that. Since this thing is just sitting under my tv, I'm probably going to go more low key. I do think I'll be going with the i3 3225, though.
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post #30 of 35
11/2/12 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beelbeel View Post

I'm not familiar with that issue. Could you elaborate?

Look at reviews for the drive on Newegg, and you'll see it mentioned. It applies to I think all of the WD Green drives. A slightly older article that describes the problems reasonably well can be found at http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-critical-design-flaw-found-in-wd-caviar-green-hdds.html

It appears that the drive heads park after 8 seconds of inactivity, causing an extremely high number of load-unload cycles. The drives are rated for something like 500,000 such cycles, and some people were on pace to hit that within a year. I believe it's mostly for people using it as a main HDD. It might not be a problem as a media drive, because the usage pattern is probably more in large chunks (e.g. 1 hour of constantly reading off the HDD to watch a TV show or movie) rather than short bursts so it shouldn't have to load-unload all the time. With that being said, it's still the media HDD I'm considering. The Samsung F4 looks to be just a rebranded Seagate now, so I don't know that there is a better option out there.
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