$2,000-3,000 Tower speaker comparison: Need help picking the contenders for a shootout - Page 5

I had very similar feelings when I had SongTowers and KEF Rs running side by side. At the end the kind of music I like won the battle for the KEFs.
For a while I was considering running dual setup, Salks for mellow stuff and KEFs for the rest. Might an option for you:)

NHTB, have you tried using the tone controls on your HK to either bump the bass on the Phils or reduce it on the Ultra's? I know the practice is considered anathema to many, but lacking Room EQ, it may help round out any apparent shortcomings.

In the end, for me at least, in reference v. preference, I go with preference. After all, I'm the one listening. If a slight tweak to a knob makes either the Phil or Ultra better, go for it.

Glad you mentioned the sub. I was wondering how the ultras would do once the low end was mitigated to a dedicated sub. I do wonder if the ultras will blend better though.

The need for a sub brings up the cost of the system.

Well I'm still excited to hear what they sound like, it might be a game changer in my own HT.

There is a speaker for everyone, right?

There is not a single speaker that will be loved for all occasions by everyone.

Gotta get what you like in the end.

Im jealous - nice $2k speaker shoot out...

I've got the phil 2s which I adore. I wish I had 2 dedicated rooms at this point because i like the speaker floor position different for music and movies...

Maybe I just need to build a new a house

Maybe you just need another set of Phils

I know...I even have the elusive phil center thingy...

OP - email Dennis and see which position for the Raal pad was the flatest response...I think they are a little hot without a single pad on there (mine is at the very top based on measurements for flatness)

All the Phil's will measure a little hot with no pads. Otherwise, you couldn't use them without rolling off the highs. One pad on top is generally flat on axis, two spaced far apart is generally a little shelved down in the highs, but with superior vertical dispersion. But it's all a matter of what agrees with you.

I know its not exactly an apples to applies...but I am about ready to bite on the Phil 2's.

I needed a sub anyway...so there is no comparison. Yes...it was 50/50 toss up with the speakers head to head...for all the reason's noted.

Add in a couple of HSU subs...and Phil's 2 win hands down.

Another consideration here though is that the Phil 2's dont have a center. Have to go to Salk for that... And although Salk is awesome...it is rather expensive. That should be factored in as well for HT peeps like me.

I have a small worry that if I do go with Salk for the center...even with the cost...I need to make very sure tone and timber are the same.
Edited by Newbie01 - 2/10/13 at 8:44pm

Hi. The relevant center channel is the one I used to sell. It's not the Song Center (although I also designed that). I just turned the manufacturing procerss over to Jim. Mine uses the 5 .5" version of the 8" SBAcoustics woofer from the Phil 2, and the Fountek ribbon tweet from the Phil 1. It's voiced to match any of the Phil's, and the Fountek is fine for center channel duty. I think the RAAL is kind of a waste in that application, since most of what you're hearing from the center is dialog anyhow. The cost should be about the same as the Song Center--the Fountek and 0W2 tweets are approximately equal in cost.

Thanks again Dennis...that clears it Up! When I read the info on your site...I didn't get that.

You just make me a happy!
Edited by Newbie01 - 2/11/13 at 12:23pm

As a kind of side note.  It's really cool to watch the analysis/debate flow for having had those Phil-2s previously.  The Phil-3s (new style cabinets) arrived at my place last week.  So far I don't have a lot of listening time on them but I'm being amazed all over again.  I did not expect much difference in the high and midrange but for some reason (maybe simply a little bit different location) the P3s just sound overall smoother and warmer - but no less accurate.  I have them a bit further apart 10.5', no toe-in, and pushed within 2" of the back wall, plus I'm using both the tweeter pads (as far apart as they will stick) to maximize dispersion.  The TV screen (100") has been up for all of my listening so far and I think the draperies help the sound.  This is a "bonus room" over a 2 car garage so they are far enough into the corners (22" from the side walls) that the ceiling is sloped above.  I don't think I'd want them any further into the corner, but so far I'm not feeling the need for bass traps or other room tweaks.

 

As I hear more of my music, get them broken in a bit, I'll report more, and be happy to post comparisons.  So far have limited listening to jazz and classical but I've a large collection of 24bit Raunch and Roll including the new release of Santana Abraxas @ 24/176.4

 

I'll also be happy to host anyone for a listen if they happen to be in Eastern NC.  I'm 15 minutes south of downtown Raleigh.

 

Cheers

Frank

 

Driving the Phil-3s is a Schiit Gungnir DAC into a Wyred-4-Sound STI-1000 integrated amp (Balanced Inputs) or an Oppo BDP105 into the STI-1000 (RCA inputs).  I only use the 5.1 gear for TV+Movies.

 

 

If I were to add a sub to some Phils, I would add something that could actually extend the bass extension of your system, instead of merely shoring up existing bass. I definitely wouldn't get a entry level sub. I would be looking at a Hsu ULS-15 or Rythmik F15. I would cross it over pretty low to not risk any localization. You might try a 50 hz or 60 hz crossover.

Funny you should say that: I actually asked Dennis this exact question... I don't think he will mind me sharing the answer. At least I hope he dosent mind:

"...Get a Rythmik with the servo feedback circuit."

Rythmik is very good, I tried one out and was very impressed by it. Rythmik does have a weak spot, it's high end rolls off pretty early, petering off at 80 hz or so on many of the models, but that is high enough to get the job done for most people. That certainly wouldn't be a problem for you, as I would want to use the Phils well below that point for a seamless two channel experience. I would go for one of the sealed 15"s. The ULS is great too, it has a very clean sound and digs very deep for a sealed design. I think the SB13 Ultra would be great as well. If you like it loud, I would want multiples of any of these subs though. Sealed Funks, Submersives JTRs, and so on would be the ideal, but that is getting pricey.

What happened to the Gallo's in this shootout?

This is very good advice IMO.

I second the recommendation for Rythmik. Just be sure to cross it no higher than 100Hz (I'd go 80 or lower), as mentioned by shadyJ.

LOL - nice. I am glad you all had a good time. Mini GTG's are a blast!

I think you ought to try a single blinded comparison by having someone else do the switching. Bias is too powerful. The speaker with the most bass might have the advantage, so I think using a sub & XO all speakers to 80Hz might be good.

I think the EMPs are the prettiest ones. I didn't realize they are that much taller than the rest.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 2/12/13 at 6:03am

ShadyJ, you one you tried was FV12. That model had only two RCA inputs. That has been corrected in the new LV12 subs (now with 3 RCA inputs, and one of them is LFE input). As a matter of fact, all of our subs have LFE inputs that can go up to at least 200hz. Hope this will set the record straight.

NHTB, of those 4 speakers which would you pick if you had to choose today? Thanks.

I would have to agree NewHTbuyer about the speakers in the most part and within about 10 minutes without really knowing what speakers was what you kind of figured it out as time went. If I had to choose any of these speakers to take home yesterday I would have picked the SVS ultra speakers due to their bass extension as well as how tight they sounded with most of the things we played throughout the day. The finish looked amazing on these speakers as well as the placement of the speakers themselves.

Phil’s for me had the most amazing sound stage I think I’ve ever heard where the speakers disappear in the room without any issues and they seem to pick up acoustic music as well as horns with no problems and some music like Apocalyptica sounded out right amazing on these speakers. The two down sides for me is by far is the look of them next to the rest of the speakers they looked a little bland and the bass extension wasn’t anywhere near as good as the SVS ultra speakers. Now this is only my opinion due to the music I enjoy and listen to most of the time but I can see why so many people would love these speakers if you enjoy more mellow style of music/ acoustic based .

Anthony Gallo speakers had the same idea as the Phil’s with the ribbon tweeter and I would love to see how these speakers sound in Vic’s theater. The thing I enjoyed the most with these speakers is the size and how well they hit the high end of sounds, again very good with Mellow music and I could see Jazz or blues being killer on these speakers with singers with a higher pitch voice. On the flip side for the price they seem to be lacking a lot in mid range to low range and I think a lot of that is due to their size and what they can handle. If they were priced maybe around 800 dollars then I might say they would be worth it.
EMP tek, I can’t give my full opinion on these speakers since I hear them every day but I will give a impressions for our GTG. When we would switch to the E55ti speakers I could tell because of the full range they have and over all they seem to fit closest to the SVS towers in sound, NewHTbuyer had it right next to the SVS speakers though they sounded thin and not as full or as tight as the SVS speakers but on the flip side I don’t think the SVS speakers had double the cost better sound of the EMP tek. For the price I think the EMP are an amazing deal if that is what you can afford for a system which I can tell you now would not let you down, but if you are looking for a really nice HT then I would go with the Ultras over the EMP tek speakers.

Thanks NewHTbuyer it was a fun GTG and glad you or Vic were a local Denver serial killers. Lol

This was definitely a fun experience. While I am a serial killer, I unfortunately didn't have a good opportunity to take out either NHTB or bitterwaste as bitterwaste brought a friend and I only had enough hydrochloric acid for two bodies. Despite my initial plans, I was able to enjoy some good music and good beer with some fellow audiophiles.

My analysis:

All of the speakers sounded good and none had any glaring deficiencies; however, there were some subtle and other not so subtle differences between the speakers. The SVS Ultras and the EMPTeks both shared a similar sonic signature as did the Phils and the Gallos. The differences were less apparent between the Ultras and EMPTeks compared the differences between the Phils and Gallos. While I likely don't listen to as much rock as NHTB or bitterwaste, the sound of the Ultras and EMPs is still appealing for jazz, acoustics and female vocals, but these two speakers definitely handle rock well. They also seem very versatile for use as home theater speakers due to their good range. The Ultras seemed to go the lowest and didn't have any real noticeable deficiencies. As an all around speaker (for both music and movies), especially if no sub was used, I think the Ultras were the most complete.

The EMPs are not just a bargain at their price; they are good speakers. The pair cost approximately the same as one of the Gallos and roughly 75% of the cost of one speaker of the Ultras or Phils. These speakers definitely held their own. While the finish is a vinyl wrap, it looks expensive with high gloss over wood grain accents. As stated above, these speakers were most similar to the Ultras. They don't go as deep, but have a nice range nonetheless. With music that didn't have much bass, it was hard to tell a difference between the Ultras and EMPs unless you were switching back and forth. In addition, I think the timbre of these speakers was strikingly similar. Both the Ultras and EMPs were warmer than the Phils and Gallos, but not in a bad way. After the GTG, I've already recommended these speakers to my cousin who is setting up a new theater/music room.

Admittedly, the Phils were my favorite of the bunch. Unfortunately, I don't have the space in my theater room to keep them 2 feet from the wall. Otherwise, I would have definitely found an additional supply of hydrochloric acid, and the Phils would be sitting in my basement right now. I think they produced what I would call the most neutral sound of the group. Since I do tend to listen to more jazz and acoustic music, I think the sound reproduced by the ribbon tweeter is quite nice. The bass extension, while not as good as the Ultras, was definitely adequate. As both NHTB and bitterwaste noted, when played, these speakers disappear and the sound-stage really opens up.

The Gallos seem to be not too distant cousins of the Phils. It wouldn't be illegal for them to marry, but they might show up at the same family reunion. I personally like the tweeter on the Gallos the second best of the group. It was noticeably brighter at the GTG than in my current setup, but I don't have them close to any sidewalls. As I said, I like jazz, blues and acoustic music, and I don't necessarily favor a warmer sound. Nonetheless, switching between the Phils and Gallos, which have a similar sensitivity, was revealing as to what was missing in the mid-low to lower range from the Gallos. The Gallos go great coupled with a musical sub. When I was in home auditioning a REL subwoofer and had the Gallos crossed over at 80hz, it was a great compliment to the Gallos. But if you are going strictly two channel, no sub, the Gallos (at least compared to the speakers present at the GTG) seemed like their range in the mid-low to bottom end wasn't as capable. I currently have the Gallos connected to an XPA-3 and Marantz SR6007 and they sound great, but I'm still debating whether I will be keeping these. I'm running them with two SVS PB1000s.

Edit: One thing I've noticed after bringing my Gallos back home is the room eq definitely makes a difference in their sound.
Edited by VicTorious1 - 2/13/13 at 8:31am

bitterwaste and VicTorious1, thank you both for adding your impressions as well. We appreciate it.

I know you guys are comparing apples to apples out of the box. Would any of your opinions change when you throw in a Sub? We all know that the SVS will go lower...its a given but if you plan on going with a sub...shouldn't that just make the phils the clear winner? (Again just askin)

Also, I would like some clarification if possible. Is it really required to pull the Phil's 2 ft. from the wall... Are you talking back wall or side wall. I need to go back and read but I "think" I remember Dennis saying that these are fine near a wall but shoudl be 2 feet from a side wall?

Also, I have heard Phil and word "pads" mentioned many times..and adjusting the high end with the pads...can someone edumikate me?

Really makes me wonder what you guys would have done with something like the Tekton Pendragons. I would so much like to see those thrown in the mix.

Note to self: Whenever you meet Vic bring at least two friends.

Great impressions guys. I had once eliminated the EMPs from my list since they didn't look "high end" enough but I may need to reconsider that. I'm mostly a HT kind of dude so the Phils and Gallos got knocked down a bit although I like the idea of having a transparent speaker like the Phils. Just not sure that I'd have the layout to pull them that far from the walls.

How do you think the Aperion Grand Towers would hold up against this lot?