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My Dual 15" Dayton HO How should I build it Thread? - Page 2

post #31 of 87
11/6/12 at 7:44pm
Thread Starter 
Ok so I got pics and graphs, Let me know what you guys think. Below are the graphs one is not equed and the other is. The one that is equ'ed was equ'ed using behringer feedback destroyer. I'm using the behringer ep 2500 amps 30 hz hpf, but brought the curve down by using auto eq options for behringer and then fine tuning for ultimate results. I hope that there is no way to kill a sub by equing it to much. If so let me know.

By the way the subs are wired in Parallel so amp is running at 2 Ohms




Edited by Evolvo - 11/6/12 at 8:10pm
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post #32 of 87
11/6/12 at 7:50pm
Thread Starter 
Here are pics of the build, I will finish later. I'm still wondering should I add an extra board on the baffle. The ports are 18.25" and if I add an extra board on top to strengthen baffle it will be 19". The subs dimensions are 30" X23" X20". All measures are about 1/8" short.




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post #33 of 87
11/6/12 at 7:51pm
Thread Starter 
As can be seen in the pics below, I cut the hole to exactly 14" and the woofer wouldn't fit so I had to use the router and make it bigger, boy was I pissed off, I couldn't believe Dayton was off on cutout. I'm thinking maybe once I screwed woofer down maybe it would have lodged in place, I'm not sure though.

MORE PICS OF FINISHED SUBS ON NEXT PAGE









MORE PICS OF FINISHED SUBS ON NEXT PAGE
Edited by Evolvo - 12/9/12 at 2:15pm
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post #34 of 87
11/6/12 at 8:01pm
Thread Starter 
Impressions -

These subs are amazing and sound as clean as I've ever heard any sub before. I've personally never heard high end like PB13 but I imagine this would compete. The give me that punch the THT subwoofer was missing. Things shake that never shook before and this is with the High Pass Filter on. If your an Audio person with a router and saw, it would be criminal not to build these subs. I had lowes cut the wood and gave the guy a $10 tip because they hate when you have them make 30 cuts biggrin.gif

I want to give special thanks to LTD02, this guy is amazing and helped me every step of the way. He answered all my questions and didn't get mad at me for asking so many questions. He steered me in the right directions and was like Obi Wan Kenobi teaching a young Padawan Learner. I was about to spend 500 on some expensive 18" woofer and he convinced me not too, and I'm glad he did because I was able to build 2 subs at at the same cost and these bad boys rock hard.

Thank You LTD02, Your the Man.

Please feel free to offer advice or criticism, so I can build better next time and people who read this build theirs even better than mine.
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post #35 of 87
11/6/12 at 8:21pm
too many kind words...

i'm still wondering about the length of the ports though.

anyways, the enclosure looks good, the bracing looks good, and you have plenty of amp.

using the high pass in the amp an then eq'ing up below that is an oddball, but seemingly effective, approach.
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post #36 of 87
11/6/12 at 8:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

too many kind words...
i'm still wondering about the length of the ports though.
anyways, the enclosure looks good, the bracing looks good, and you have plenty of amp.
using the high pass in the amp an then eq'ing up below that is an oddball, but seemingly effective, approach.

What length do u think ports should be. They are 2 x 3" ports. That are 18.25 inches long. My box is around 6 cu ft.

By oddball do u mean bad.
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post #37 of 87
11/6/12 at 9:08pm
ah, i remember discussing 4" ports and lengths. you are right on the money with your tuning.

"By oddball do u mean bad."

not at all. i simply meant very different. off the top of my head, i can't think of anybody else who has taken that approach. that's all. it looks like you have it dialed in and working nicely. :-) win!
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post #38 of 87
11/6/12 at 9:54pm
Thread Starter 
Holy mother of all gods. I just watched transformers forest scene and exerpienced sound I've never heard before. This is fricking amazing. As long as my subs don't blow. This build is amazing. If u are out there thinking of what to build. Your journey has ended.

I have tactile transducers under my seats that aren't even on but it feels like it. I'll build 2 more in a couple years but for now I've got exactly what I need. Also I have no chuffing even though I used straight plumbing PVC pipe and no flared ports.

Thanks again LTD.
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post #39 of 87
11/6/12 at 9:58pm
Thread Starter 
Update, I turned on tactile transducers and threw in the avengers and watched the hulk scene and I have to admit. It's scary because the bass is so thunderous I feel like I'm in the scene and the hulk is about to smash me. I feel like he's literally in my house running around. Lol.

I'm done testing for the night. My ears hurt.
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post #40 of 87
11/6/12 at 10:54pm
"Holy mother of all gods. I just watched transformers forest scene and exerpienced sound I've never heard before. This is fricking amazing."

that is the kind of reply that makes it all worth it. :-)
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post #41 of 87
11/7/12 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post

As can be seen in the pics below, I cut the hole to exactly 14" and the woofer wouldn't fit so I had to use the router and make it bigger, boy was I pissed off, I couldn't believe Dayton was off on cutout. I'm thinking maybe once I screwed woofer down maybe it would have lodged in place, I'm not sure though.

So do you recommend 14 1/8"? or 14 1/16"?
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post #42 of 87
11/7/12 at 11:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Limited View Post

So do you recommend 14 1/8"? or 14 1/16"?

I definitely would not do 14 1/8. It was slightly too big and I had to angle my screws. I would do 1/16. But then again I'm wondering if I would have just tried to screw it down maybe it would have lodged its way in. Also I would not recommend t nuts. I would just use a medium wood screws not super fat ones. The t nuts where hanging over circle edge for me. Maybe others have had success if they had circle just right. I'll let u know what screws I used.

I see u had lowes cut ur wood too. Did they do a good job. I tipped my guy because I felt bad for making him cut so much wood. I think he could have done better. I have some edge overhang in a spot or 2.
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post #43 of 87
11/7/12 at 1:40pm
Ironically enough, I called Lowe's and asked what their policy was. They said the first two cuts were free and they were $0.25/cut after that to a maximum of 10 cuts. So I thought, "Well I don't mind the $0.25/cut, but if they max me out at 10 cuts I'm only going to get two sheets and come back for a third sheet later".

So when I got there he asked how many sheets I needed and I told him 3, but I'll just take 2 because they won't fit in my truck unless they're cut. So he asked to see what I was trying to do and I showed him my drawings of the 4x8's and where I needed them cut. I made it simple for him, 12" shelves - cut this sheet 6 times every 12". For the box I had him cut at 22" four times, and the third sheet he cut at 14" a bunch of times. I will take it from there and make the rest of the cuts at home.

But to answer your question, yes he cut them perfectly for the box. We used a block so that they were all consistent cuts. I told him 1/16" either way would be ok as long as they were consistent. The shelves ended up at 12 3/16" or so, but consistently so what do I care. I helped him make the cuts and was there late, so there wasn't a lot of customers around. When we were done he said, "No charge for the cuts!" Of course earlier that day I spent $2500 on window coverings so that helped.

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post #44 of 87
11/7/12 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post

I definitely would not do 14 1/8. It was slightly too big and I had to angle my screws. I would do 1/16. But then again I'm wondering if I would have just tried to screw it down maybe it would have lodged its way in. Also I would not recommend t nuts. I would just use a medium wood screws not super fat ones. The t nuts where hanging over circle edge for me. Maybe others have had success if they had circle just right. I'll let u know what screws I used.
You could do 14" and put a slight roundover on it so the driver will sit flush in the hole but give you more material for screws / t-nuts / threaded inserts.
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post #45 of 87
11/7/12 at 2:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

You could do 14" and put a slight roundover on it so the driver will sit flush in the hole but give you more material for screws / t-nuts / threaded inserts.

Excellent idea. I have an 1/8 th round over I bit too for finishing. Wish I had thought of this. I tipped my wood guy hoping he wouldn't get mad and cut my wood bad, lol.

On a side note, my hears hurt so bad I'm taking ibruprofen. Won't turn them up that loud again. I bet Notny could probably make his head explode with those 8 5400. I can't even fathom the kind of destruction those could cause a house, literally.
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post #46 of 87
11/7/12 at 2:55pm
Thread Starter 
AI what size ports do u plan on using. My 18.25" 3" x 2 ports worked great. No need to bend and make more work.

For a quicker build I used wood glue to glue the wood and screws and then added pl premium later to all the joints for added durability and to make sure no air escaped. If u have patience u could pl premium the boxes with clamps that way u don't have to bongo screw holes. I used gorilla glue to secure the tubing to the cabinet.
I cut out circles and then attached them to port holes and was able to put 3" plumbing coupler inside the cutout and glue it in place to align perfectly with port. Then I took PVC and gorilla glued it inside the coupler. If I could do it again I might try another glue. It worked but was slow. Again if u are patient then it doesn't matter.

Once the outer boxes were made it only took about 1.5 hrs per box to get braces, ports, woofer and back on. Wood glued bracing cause it dries in 30 good enough and then pl premiumed the joints.
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post #47 of 87
11/7/12 at 4:58pm
I'm still playing with my port sizes. I downloaded the RS15HO file for WinISD from HTS but it didn't look anything like the manufacturer's spec so I made my own driver. Then at work today, I made another file for the same speaker and I'm getting totally different results on my rear air velocity. I may not have the same version of WinISD Pro running either. I'm going to double check my results at home. I was getting 2x roughly 31" ports at 4" diameter with a rear air velocity below 19. What is your rear air velocity with 2x 18" x 3" ports?
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post #48 of 87
11/7/12 at 5:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Limited View Post

I'm still playing with my port sizes. I downloaded the RS15HO file for WinISD from HTS but it didn't look anything like the manufacturer's spec so I made my own driver. Then at work today, I made another file for the same speaker and I'm getting totally different results on my rear air velocity. I may not have the same version of WinISD Pro running either. I'm going to double check my results at home. I was getting 2x roughly 31" ports at 4" diameter with a rear air velocity below 19. What is your rear air velocity with 2x 18" x 3" ports?

I think my box ultimately turned out to be around 5.85 cu Ft tuned to 18h or 19hz. The port air velocity on Winisd pro shows 8 ft/s, which is like 2.5 m/s. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong cause that seems relatively low, but I don't hear chuffing. I wouldn't do 4" unless you like the look. It's a waste of time creating a bend like that, plus some people argue the bend can be bad by stopping the air from flowing smoothly out of the ports, It may or may not be true, I read a whole thread on it and people were arguing like crazy. I just figured why try if I didn't have too.
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post #49 of 87
11/7/12 at 5:44pm
Thread Starter 
I know what you mean about those files though, cause I was told by LTD that the HF wasn't suppose to extend as high but and went deeper and I saw it on a few graphs, but when I did it I got the exact opposite. The only thing I can tell you is that my design and my equipment allowed me to EQ a flat line to about 19hz.

I feel like I don't ultimately know how great my sub is tuned because of the way I Eq'ed it. I have a HIgh pass filter at 30 hz on my Behringer but used the Feedback Destroyer to boost the 20 hz signal to where I wanted it to be.
I don't know how sub would perform if I actually had a 18hz high pass fitler to it, but I guess I don't care because it's working phenomenally.
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post #50 of 87
11/7/12 at 5:54pm
"I was told by LTD that the HF wasn't suppose to extend as high but and went deeper and I saw it on a few graphs, but when I did it I got the exact opposite."

i don't recall saying that. the low inductance of the hf should actually give it a little better and more extended top end.

"The port air velocity on Winisd pro shows 8 ft/s, which is like 2.5 m/s."

that is at 1 watt.

on the driver, choose the signal tab and input what wattage you are using; it will skyrocket.
Edited by LTD02 - 11/7/12 at 5:59pm
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post #51 of 87
11/7/12 at 6:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"I was told by LTD that the HF wasn't suppose to extend as high but and went deeper and I saw it on a few graphs, but when I did it I got the exact opposite."
i don't recall saying that. the low inductance of the hf should actually give it a little better and more extended top end.
"The port air velocity on Winisd pro shows 8 ft/s, which is like 2.5 m/s."
that is at 1 watt.
on the driver, choose the signal tab and input what wattage you are using; it will skyrocket.

My bad ur right. I got it from the thread below. U have been helping me so much I thought u taught me everything I know, lol

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1341034/dayton-rss390ho-vs-hf-most-things-equal
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post #52 of 87
11/8/12 at 7:20am
I was at 500 W and a rear air velocity below 19m/s. With 800W I'm about 23.5 m/s. I definitely think I'm using different versions of WinISD so I'll have to look into that later from work. I'm on 7.0.900 at home with a slightly modified version of the HTC driver T/S parms from "joshr". The version at work was telling me it didn't like the combo of T/S parms I was using so it may be a slightly newer version. I don't plan on bending my ports as I am making downward firing "bench" subs with the port coming out of the side. I already have 4" material to port them with. The benches will have the ports facing away from the seating so aesthetics won't be a problem for me. I have 3" material too, but according to WinISD, I'd need to use 4 x 35 inch ports to keep my rear port air velocity down. I'm using 5.1 cubic ft and 20 Hz tune. I plan on using an iNuke3000dsp with a highpass at 20 Hz. I'm modeling 80 Hz lowpass because I believe that's what the integra pre-amp needs to be THX compliant even though it's adjustable.

Just curious, what is everyone using as far as modeling, Chevychev box with butterworth filters? bessel filters? 4th order (12db/octave) slope? It's been a long time since I've played with Bode plots!
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post #53 of 87
11/8/12 at 7:31am
Thread Starter 
I didn't know u could change wattage. How do u do that. That's my problem. Oops. I would be concerned but I don't hear anything so obviously I'm ok.where do u go to change these settings.
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post #54 of 87
11/8/12 at 9:36am
Thread Starter 
I'd like to know what my velocity would be. I'm not home to 12am. If u get a chance could u model the velocity on a 5.85 with 2 3" ports. I wonder if it shows I'm too high. Actually my tubes are 3" x 16 and the last 2.25" towards the exit are 2.5". But I just say 3" or 3.1" to model. My numbers are close not super accurate but eq too care if this.
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post #55 of 87
11/8/12 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post

I didn't know u could change wattage. How do u do that. That's my problem. Oops. I would be concerned but I don't hear anything so obviously I'm ok.where do u go to change these settings.

You use the signal tab and enter the signal power in watts.
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post #56 of 87
11/8/12 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post

I'd like to know what my velocity would be. I'm not home to 12am. If u get a chance could u model the velocity on a 5.85 with 2 3" ports. I wonder if it shows I'm too high. Actually my tubes are 3" x 16 and the last 2.25" towards the exit are 2.5". But I just say 3" or 3.1" to model. My numbers are close not super accurate but eq too care if this.

This is with 800W input power


It took 5 ports to get the rear port velocity down.
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post #57 of 87
11/8/12 at 10:52am
You should model it yourself with your actual power (300W?) Ultimately, if you're happy with the performance you're getting, you may not need to worry about it.
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post #58 of 87
11/8/12 at 11:40am
Thread Starter 
My subs sounds absolutely incredible I'm completely happy I just want to konw more about air port velocity for future purposes and to know what mine is expected to be, to see what velocity actually won't cause chuffing. You must have diff version of WinISD, because mine shows black background, also mine shows as Ft/s and m/s. The graph that your showing is that ft/s or m/s.

I'm not even sure what port chuffing sounds like. I don't notice anything abnormal so I assuming I don't have it. At high SPL's and I mean super high I might, but I only see me putting 200 watts into these bad boys.
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post #59 of 87
11/8/12 at 11:49am
Thread Starter 
Also just to check if I have 2 subwoofer and these are rated at 90 db, but I'm using 2 then at 1m I'm at 93db's.

So this would mean

Watt DB
1 93
2 96
4 99
8 102
32 105
64 108
128 111
256 114
400 115-116

Does this sound about correct for my 2 subs.
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post #60 of 87
11/8/12 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post

Also just to check if I have 2 subwoofer and these are rated at 90 db, but I'm using 2 then at 1m I'm at 93db's.
So this would mean
Watt DB
1 93
2 96
4 99
8 102
32 105
64 108
128 111
256 114
400 115-116
Does this sound about correct for my 2 subs.

Watt DB
1 93
2 96
4 99
8 102
16 105
32 108
64 111
128 114
256 117

at 1m

The charts I was posting were m/s for the rear port air velocity.
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