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post #931 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by datguy85 View Post

Congrats Vik on the article! It's amazing how everything turned out. I could sit in that room of yours all day. Let me know if you need a house sitter!

Actually the house sitting is MY job. biggrin.gif

I was a little disappointed in the article though. It mentions, Jeff (Big), Erskine Group, The Soundproffing Company, but no mention of the guy who actually "tested" the" fortress" part of the Fortress of Solitude by getting locked in. Oh well, I guess I will just have to live with the passing mention and I quote "Once the theater was done I did call in a handful of people asking them to critique after experiencing it, and each person said that they felt like they were a part of the movie rather than just watching it; they were especially impressed with how they were not able to localize the sound, and in their own words telling they were in a 3D envelope of sound,” So much for my 15 minutes of fame. wink.gif

Very cool to see the fruits of your labor in print, well done.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #932 of 983
Thanks Guys!!. lol@ housesitter position. RT i wish i had control over the editing of the article.. I will make it up to you for omitting smile.gif
post #933 of 983
Impressive write-up for a very impressive theater. Congrats to all involved!
post #934 of 983
Way to go!!
post #935 of 983
Thanks cw5billwade and angryht!
post #936 of 983
Very nice article, great pictures.
post #937 of 983
Thanks Elmo!
post #938 of 983
Fantastic theater!!! Words cannot properly describe it.

My only question: how are you going to mount the overhead ceiling and front wide side surround speakers for object-oriented sound when it comes to the home environment in a few short years? biggrin.gif Oh yes, Dolby and DTS are working on this as we speak.
post #939 of 983
Thanks for the kind words, I am aware of Dolby atmos and auro3D etc. This theater is to enjoy and learn from the build experience. In a few short years I have plans for a bigger and better one in a different city where i am planning to move to so its all good smile.gif
post #940 of 983
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

My only question: how are you going to mount the overhead ceiling and front wide side surround speakers for object-oriented sound when it comes to the home environment in a few short years? biggrin.gif Oh yes, Dolby and DTS are working on this as we speak.

Probably the same way everyone else who has built a 7.x theater over the past few years will.
post #941 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Fantastic theater!!! Words cannot properly describe it.

My only question: how are you going to mount the overhead ceiling and front wide side surround speakers for object-oriented sound when it comes to the home environment in a few short years? biggrin.gif Oh yes, Dolby and DTS are working on this as we speak.

I honestly don't see this being something that will be widely available for the general consumer "home space" any time soon. I love the idea of Atmos, and would be very interested to do it myself when it becomes available. It makes a lot of sense in theaters, and having it in that space might be another step back toward getting people to actually want to GO to movies. A big thing though is that most people can't even tell the difference between 5.1 and 7.1, even when they are mixed that way on the source material. The only places this would really be useful are in a dedicated theater space. Do you think your average homeowner is going to cover their walls and ceiling with speakers? This would be more of a sell to the studios than it would be to homeowners. 99% + of people won't notice any difference if something is branded Atmos on their media because they won't change their speakers. The big sell would be to the studios, since they could just mix one way and let Atmos handle any speaker configuration. The problem is, they still need to mix for all of the existing hardware out there, which everyone already owns. I never worry about new technologies until it matters. 4K is still nowhere near the horizon media wise, but they already are selling hardware for it. Sure, you can upscale and such from a blu ray or whatever too, but your average consumer usually can't even tell the difference between 720p and 1080p either. Once it is close to mainstream, I'll worry about it. Until then, enjoy what is out there! Why ever buy a car if next year's model is better?

What I am more concerned about is seeing the beautiful theater Vik just put together and then hear him say he plans to build a new one in a couple of years... That's a lot of money to dump on 2 years of use! frown.gif
post #942 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post



What I am more concerned about is seeing the beautiful theater Vik just put together and then hear him say he plans to build a new one in a couple of years... That's a lot of money to dump on 2 years of use! frown.gif

For sure!

When I build my theater it's going to be a long term plan.
post #943 of 983
Well what Vik did not tell you is that while it is a bunker, it is a bunker in a briefcase. A new type of construction technique that when you are ready all you do is press "The little red button" and viola it all folds up compactly to the size of a airline carry on. Just like the last 15 seconds of this video

Easy, peasy, lemon, squeezy!

Regards,

RTROSE
post #944 of 983
Lol @ RT...thanks for letting the secret out! biggrin.gif
post #945 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

I honestly don't see this being something that will be widely available for the general consumer "home space" any time soon.

What I am more concerned about is seeing the beautiful theater Vik just put together and then hear him say he plans to build a new one in a couple of years... That's a lot of money to dump on 2 years of use! frown.gif

Very true regarding coming to the home space soon..it will take a while. Regarding dumping the money, before the build, I knew for sure i will be moving in a few years so i did make some plans on how i am going to get back if not all..most of the money spent on the project, I guess when the time comes i will update regarding this wink.gif
post #946 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikgrao View Post

Very true regarding coming to the home space soon..it will take a while. Regarding dumping the money, before the build, I knew for sure i will be moving in a few years so i did make some plans on how i am going to get back if not all..most of the money spent on the project, I guess when the time comes i will update regarding this wink.gif

With object based audio "rendering" they only have to do ONE master mix (which is created in a specialized dubbing stage filled with speakers to create the 3D audio effect) and then down-convert the meta-data controlled bitstream to 7.1 channels for Blu-ray and 5.1 for DVD and broadcast use. That's why it's taking off so quickly. Sound engineers have been wanting this kind of scalable format for some time. In fact, basic versions of audio rendering software have been used in theme park rides and positional game audio mixing for some time.

Since electronics manufactures want to sell you on buying the next gee-wiz latest and greatest... (these guys are seeing sales plummet and are desperate) they want some universal object format for the home and within a couple years. DTS is working to create a universal open standard... kind of like PCM back in the day.

I'm sure there will be some 9.1 speaker based consumer systems... all the way to 64 in an ultra-high end unit. Again, the full soundtrack can be placed at the consumer's disposal (via UHD media and broadcasts) and they can go as hog wild as their bank account can manage. Luckily, unlike 3D video (which has pretty much failed to catch on at home), everyone can get enjoyment out of these more sophisticated audio tracks.

Now, all we need are some great movies to go along with the awesome 3D audio. biggrin.gif
post #947 of 983
Vik,

Regarding getting your money back. You could always sell the theater for X amount of dollars, and throw in a "free" house as a bonus! biggrin.gif

Regards,

RTROSE
post #948 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Now, all we need are some great movies to go along with the awesome 3D audio. biggrin.gif

Well, as far as that is concerned, it looks like there are quite a few movies this year alone coming out with the format. We just need to see when it comes to pre-amps and blu ray.
post #949 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

Well, as far as that is concerned, it looks like there are quite a few movies this year alone coming out with the format. We just need to see when it comes to pre-amps and blu ray.

It can't come to Blu-ray. The Blu-ray Disc Association would have to change the specs. (which they won't do) and this data controlled audio track takes up more space, so more storage is needed. However, DTS (and now Dolby) are pushing for it to debut in new UHD formats (including broadcasts) since the standards are not set in stone. There are some rumblings that Barco (of Auro fame) is teaming with DTS to push their open standards MDA object platform. They want it to play nicely with any system... Atmos included. Format agnostic rendering software and decoding... Dolby doesn't like that part since they want licensing fees for using Atmos.

So, it'll probably come down to Dolby and/or DTS again on whatever UHD system that is decided upon (like fixed channel lossless codecs like Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio on Blu-ray now)... and the receiver and pre-amp manufacturers will have to be able to decode both Atmos and MDA.
Edited by Dan Hitchman - 7/1/13 at 1:53pm
post #950 of 983
Interesting info! looking forward to the changes!
post #951 of 983
Agreed! Words can't describe Vik's theater. Vik was kind enough to invite me over to demo his impressive theater last weekend, so I'll try.

I had previously met with him at 3 different demo sessions, the 1st of which was at the JTR Open House last year. Jeff of JTR was playing some impressive bass scenes and showing off his system well. The sheer volume production of Jeff's demo room was impressive with a pair of dual Cap 1000's, but when the dual Orbit Shifters were hooked up later in the day, the volume produced during "Open Range" was unmatched. People began to clear out of the room due to high DB levels, but Vik and I remained to enjoy the spectacle. We both realized that we had similiar interests in finding quality components for a home theater. Each of us were interested in Seaton and JTR products.

Following the JTR Open House, Vik and I attended a small GTG with Mark Seaton in order to hear his Seaton Catalyst 12C's and dual Submersives in a very large basement (lower level) area. I had previously heard the Catalysts at a large GTG and had been impressed, and this was the first time that Vik was able to hear the 12C's in action. The demo time was cut a bit short due to the distance that Vik had to travel (due to traffic), but considering the sheer size of the room that we were in, the Seaton products did very well filling the room with sound.

Our third listening session together was back over at the JTR demo room in order to directly compare Jeff's new offering: The Cap S2 with the previously heard Orbit Shifter. Jeff arranged it so that we could hear the same scene back-to-back with each sub. Both subs were impressive, but the Orbit Shifter seemed to be showing off that impressive headroom a bit more in certain scenes. Vik left with an OS that day.

Round 4 - Ding, Ding, Ding!

On entering Vik's theater last weekend I was instantly taken-aback by how refined everything seems. The lighting effects are amazing and I am digging the appearance of the theater. I have been to several GTG's, but this is the closest thing to an actual theater I have actually seen in a home. The level of soundproofing is very impressive. No external noises seem to interfere with the deadly quiet room before the demo has begun. You can hear yourself breathing it seems that quiet. There is a larger than life screen, 2 rows of seating (with theater-style leather seats) and not a speaker to be seen. Every speaker is hidden nicely away and the equipment is in the adjacent room. The only piece of equipment that can be seen is the projector in the back. With the use of the handy I-phone or PS3 remote, the audio and video display is ready to begin.

I came to the demo with with a multitude of movie clips that I wanted to experience, and Vik was very gracious in allowing me extensive time to hear a variety of clips. Due to having a few favorite movie scenes, those clips were actually played several times. Shortly after playing just a few scenes, something became very-very apparent. The walls didn't seem to be shaking during reference-level playback and there no vibration of internal or external areas of the room. That is a very impressive accomplishment!

Here is a partial list of movies that we sampled during our demo session last weekend (at reference with level-matched mains and sub):

5 Days of War
300
AVP: Requiem
Avatar
Battle LA
Blackhawk Down
Book of Eli
Cloverfield
Conan
Expendables
Flight Of The Phoenix
G.I. Joe
Godzilla
Grey, The
Haunting, The
Hellboy II
House of Flying Daggers
Hurt Locker
Incredible Hulk
Immortals
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Jurassic Park
King Kong
Knowing
Live Free Or Die Hard
Lord of The Rings: ROTK
Master and Commander
New Daughter, The
Open Range
Pearl Harbor
Percy Jackson
Pulse
Rambo
Skyline
Sucker Punch
Super 8
Terminator Salvation
Thor
Titan AE
Transformers
Transformers 3
Tron Legacy
U-571
Underworld Awakening
Valkyrie
War Of The Worlds
Wrath Of The Titans

We also watched the entire movie of "9" at reference. The 1st half of the new "Total Recall" movie was viewed at a lower volume. Total Recall was the only movie watched below reference level.

My favorite scene during the long demo session: "The Haunting" (Coming Mother);

2nd favorite scene: "War Of The Worlds" (Pod crashes into building after death ray);

Scene heard for the 1st time that most impressed: "House of Flying Daggers" (The bean scene);

Scene with the best explosion: "Underworld Awakening" (Elevator shot);

Scene with the 2nd best explosion: "Hurt Locker" (3 Different scenes all with impressive depth);

Scene with the best gun shots: "Book of Eli" (Shootout at the house);

Scene with the best fire & water effects: "Percy Jackson" (Hydra/Battle at end).


It was very evident during our listening session that several movies just had incredible sound tracks. This included 9, Immortals, Underworld Awakening, Thor, Conan, Hurt Locker, Incredible Hulk, etc. We didn't reach the volume output of the initial JTR GTG during our scenes, and the subs were not played hot like I am normally most accustomed. Even so, The JTR OS was delivering some very clean bass without any apparent distress. This is significant because I have been to other demo sessions where subs just couldn't seem to handle a movie like "Pulse." The OS handled this with ease, while blending in nicely with the Seaton mains and the Procella surrounds. This was the first time that I heard had heard a JTR OS coupled with the Seaton Catalysts. Man would I have loved to hear 2 Orbit Shifters in that room with the subs running hot!

In past demos, I have been extremely impressed with some movie scenes when the subs were running hot. This included "Pulse" (PC Room), "Master and Commander" (Cannon fire); "Terminator Salvation" (Harvester), "Open Range" (Shoot out), "Underworld Awakening" and "The Haunting." During my demo session with Vik, I realized that my audio memory from past demos best recalls the satisfaction I get from sheer volume with clear detail. My preference is hot bass with the rest of the system at reference.

When hearing this wonderful theater level-matched last weekend, the main movie that held my attention was "The Haunting." I have never heard the door slams sound so clean before (due to the lack of vibration of things in the room). The lack of shaking/vibration of the walls, and lack of echo during Pulse was a very different listening experience than I typically hear. I am so used to glass objects shaking somewhere and the walls going crazy during that scene. Not having any of those external distractions during the scene was very interesting!

Overall, last weekend was a terrific experience. Thanks to Vik and his family for allowing me to drive down and experience the creation that took a lot of time, research/planning and money to make this vision come together.

Congratulations Vik! You did it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Fantastic theater!!! Words cannot properly describe it.

Edited by pennynike1 - 6/22/13 at 11:11pm
post #952 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

It can't come to Blu-ray. The Blu-ray Disc Association would have to change the specs. (which they won't do) and this data controlled audio track takes up more space, so more storage is needed. However, DTS (and now Dolby) are pushing for it to debut in new UHD formats (including broadcasts) since the standards are not set in stone. There are some rumblings that Barco (of Auro fame) is teaming with DTS to push their open standards MDA object platform. They want it to play nicely with any system... Atmos included. Format agnostic rendering software and decoding... Dolby doesn't like that part since they want licensing fees for using Atmos.

So, it'll probably come down to Dolby and/or DTS again on whatever UHD system that is decided upon (like fixed channel lossless codecs like Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio on Blu-ray now)... and the receiver and pre-amp manufactures will have to be able to decode both Atmos and MDA.

Unfortunately then we're back to square one of the discussion, being that it won't be here anytime soon. Unless UHD somehow sells for the price of normal DVDs, no one will buy them. Most people who watch movies these days stream it or download it. Even rentals have dropped physical media for the most part. People like us are a niche group and a dying breed.
post #953 of 983
The cost for physical media is too excessive and it's too much of a pain to deal with it. It if was cheaper- or full quality downloads where available I think it might have a chance. Otherwise it's a goner. I'd pay $10 for a full quality download- but $30 for a disc I have to store isn't going to happen anymore. I rip all my discs to my server so I don't have to get up to watch them. No one wants a disc anymore.

As a theater enthusiast I might make exception for certain reference material or personal favorites but in general I can't afford to buy a few blu rays a week like I could when DVD's were cheap.
post #954 of 983
That was a fun weekend pennynike!, Glad you enjoyed the theater. I loved the rumble of your 1000hp super car shaking my neighborhood..i should have taken a video of that and posted it biggrin.gif

Mfusick, totally agree with what you said, i read somewhere and was shocked at how cheap it was to manufacture each bluray/bluray box set and how much profit they sell it for eek.gif

RT, I will remember that tip you gave in the above post tongue.gif
post #955 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

The cost for physical media is too excessive and it's too much of a pain to deal with it. It if was cheaper- or full quality downloads where available I think it might have a chance. Otherwise it's a goner. I'd pay $10 for a full quality download- but $30 for a disc I have to store isn't going to happen anymore. I rip all my discs to my server so I don't have to get up to watch them. No one wants a disc anymore.

As a theater enthusiast I might make exception for certain reference material or personal favorites but in general I can't afford to buy a few blu rays a week like I could when DVD's were cheap.

I agree that the price of Blu-ray in comparison to the manufacturing costs is pretty ridiculous. However, just wait for downloaded UHD file prices! With no retail middle man and no competition studios will jack up the prices. Vudu already is sometimes costlier than a disc to rent or buy and it's not as good quality wise. Highly onerous DRM "features" will be the name of the game as well. One only has to look to game downloads as a model.

You'll soon wish there was a high end physical medium as the enthsiasts' alternative.

And I haven't even started on the ISP costs and monthly data caps which will kill you in overage fees.
post #956 of 983
Imagine what 4k media is going to cost? $50 ??? Lol.
post #957 of 983
Can't even imagine! Don't want to imagine either, but I am sure it will not be beneficial to the consumer.
post #958 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Imagine what 4k media is going to cost? $50 ??? Lol.

If the disc will be $50, the download (without competition) will be even more.

Though, if the studios think they can get away with $50 and more single edition discs like in the laserdisc days, they're absolutely crazy... and just as greedy as any other company these days.
post #959 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikgrao View Post

That was a fun weekend pennynike!, Glad you enjoyed the theater. I loved the rumble of your 1000hp super car shaking my neighborhood..i should have taken a video of that and posted it biggrin.gif

You created quite the theater Vik. I would offer to purchase your home once you decide to move, but even if I could afford to purchase the home, I think I would go broke trying to maintain that huge lawn! The lawn almost deserved its own tour!!

Since you didn't get a chance to snap a video, here is a video of my car running the quarter mile at the local drag strip in 2011:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCaKxOIrlbQ
post #960 of 983
Very cool! Thanks!
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