Quote:
The problem is that LG made a mistake either accidentally or deliberately to advertise a set as having a capability 120Hz Tru-Motion. The reason I can believe it was an accident is because they literally gave test samples of these TVs to sites whose practically sole mission is to dissect TVs; so if they were deliberately trying to pull a fast one they picked the wrong line of products to do it with. Further the last of 120Hz listing on foreign websites?!? I believe either way.Originally Posted by AdrianO8 
So let me clear the air over LG's Trumotion 120hz and why it doesn't look like other brands such as my friend's Samsung HDTV that has120hz.
The air has been cleared for many months now about what LG (and other brands did this year in certain models) when outside testing sites began to notice a fowl stink in the air of false claims. The REASON it looks different than other TRUE 120Hz sets is again, because it is NOT 120Hz.. No equivocation, it's literally black & white. It's operating at 60Hz period!.
I had a chat session with an LG support rep and they informed me that the LG panels for 2012 all use a specific Backlight method. I forget what they called it, but pretty much what the TV does is throw a dark frame in between the picture which causes it to not have such a "soap opera" effect.
"LGs spokesperson told us they are using a technique called “Black Frame Insertion.” Their claim: in between the 60 active images, LG shuts off the LEDs sequentially from top to bottom. This shortens the time the LCD panel is illuminated in section by section thereby reducing motion blur.
60 Hz LCDs sample a frame and keep the same image about 16.67 ms. This allows little time for the pixels to move to create the next frame. The panel holds the image and then repositions the pixels quickly for the next frame. Our eyes and brains are programmed for seeing continuous motion, not sample and hold, change and repeat. The result is we see smear know as motion blur.
A proven technique to reduce motion blur is to sequentially darken the image from top to bottom, making that portion of the frame black instead of an illuminated still image. This reduces the visible hold time and the brain perceives sharper motion. This is the technique LG claimed to use in the 6700.
Our Test Results
To confirm LG’s backlight scanning claim we used a video camera recording at 480 Hz (four times the 120 Hz claimed refresh rate). We then chose a slow-motion playback of 15fps to illustrate the LED shut off sequence. As you can clearly see in the video, the 55LM6700 does not employ top to bottom scanning. Instead, it shuts off the LEDs at the sides, then the center and repeats the sequence." -HDGURU article was written about the 6700 but it applies to the lower tiers of LG. / follow the links I posted above if you want to watch the video they speak of.
So to sum up so far... LG made a claim on their box of 120Hz Tru-motion. What they gave instead was a smoothing method that they because of the design of the LEDs on these TVs there are not actually able to implement a top to bottom black frame (again see the video) and ALL THAT IS STILL BESIDES THE POINT I don't want to lose sight of the FACT that it's nothing remotely close to actual 120Hz frame rate. And what they do CLAIM to offer is not done correctly, because of the design of these TV's LED array; they couldn't actually implemented the top to bottom dark frame. I'm all for innovation and new ways of doing things if it's a step forward but this is an incorrectly implements step backwards resulting in a poorer product that they claimed was still at the previous years higher standard!
So last year's LG 3D models all use a method where they throw in a regular picture frame that's lit instead of dark in between the picture. I asked the rep what passive 3D TV's didn't have this method and she informed me the panels from 2012 all use this "Dark Frame" method,...
Prior to these 2012 models:
"120 Hz refresh HDTVs employ a circuit called Motion Estimation/Motion Compensation (ME/MC). These chips analyze consecutive original frames then create and insert synthesized frames between the original frames. This results in better motion resolution. To date, using the industry accepted FPD reference disc, we’ve found every 60 Hz LCD we’ve tested has about 320 lines of resolution. With ME/MC circuit engaged on a ME/MC circuit-equipped 120 Hz HDTV, the motion resolution increases to 600 lines.
All 60 Hz HDTVs use a technique called 3-2 pulldown, which converts the 24 original frames to 60 Hz by displaying the same frame three times then the next frame twice, then the next one three times etc. During pans, this uneven cadence creates a jerkiness called judder. We use a judder test sequence on the Marvell Qdeo test disc to test whether TVs created smooth motion with 24 frame sources.
We asked LG if any of its 2012 HDTVs with a factory specification of 120Hz refresh rate employ an ME/MC chip. The response was no. LGs spokesperson told us they are using a technique called “Black Frame Insertion.” ...
Contrary to LG’s claim, this technique had no effect at all on the TVs motion resolution. We tried Cinema and Expert picture modes and observed the same results, 320 lines of motion resolution, the same motion resolution as every make and model 60 Hz LED and LCD we’ve tested to date. Furthermore, there was always judder present, again confirming 3:2 pulldown as in a 60 Hz display. We were able to shut off the blinking LEDs by placing the TV in its “Game” mode, and found the motion blur results were the same as when the lights were blinking, only 320 lines of motion resolution .
We presented our findings to LG. They confirmed the LEDs in the 55LM6700 are only mounted at the bottom of the screen, making a vertical scan impossible as they would have to be mounted under on the left and right edges). LG provided its own 24fps judder test material; however, we saw the same judder as observed using our Qdeo test disc.
Based on our findings we asked how they could call this HDTV a 120 Hz model. Their response: “With respect to these advanced testing methods, the results illustrated are an overly magnified representation of the average user experience; what really matters is what consumers can see with their own two eyes.”
LG continues to post on its website, and dealer descriptions, simulated photos showing a significant reduction of motion blur with its claimed “TruMotion 120Hz” refresh. (photo below) [See the article linked in my post, a few above, to see the images]
We find these claims incorrect and unsupportable based on the FPD motion resolution tests used by HD Guru and other major well-respected TV reviewers. Our high-speed camera clearly shows LGs scanning claim to be incorrect as well. This TV is a 60 Hz LED LCD. All tests yield no motion blur reduction compared to any 60Hz TV" - HDGuru (Link posted several posts above)
There is NO comparison between say watching a High Definition fast action scene like a Blu-ray movie or sports event in 60Hz with the Black frame insertion software based display & TRUE 120HZ ME/MC chip where the user can dial in the amount of judder correction to their liking. The 120Hz allows the 24fps and 30fps refresh without the interpolation 3:2 pulldown of 60Hz causing in judder effect.
...but that panels from2011 don't use the "Dark Frame" method. Unfortunately all panels from 2011 are active 3D TV's which is not what I want.
This is absolutely incorrect. LG Plasma used Active shutter glasses, but LG LED/LCD used passive 3D just like they do this year, the difference being that those having 120Hz technology actually had it installed. It wasn't a lie!
I then asked if she had any news on 2013 panels and if they also indeed have this "Dark Frame" feature and she was unable to give me the information because they were only in the pre-sale status. Now I apologize that I don't remember the specific name for this "Dark Frame" method but the rep was very quick to answer my question and if they weren't closed right now I would just pop in a chat session to ask again.
I hope this helps everyone and besides the 120hz feature I absolutely love my LG TV. I got it at a fantastic price of $601 at Fry's which is a steal especially since I received free shipping.
So let me clear the air over LG's Trumotion 120hz and why it doesn't look like other brands such as my friend's Samsung HDTV that has120hz.
The air has been cleared for many months now about what LG (and other brands did this year in certain models) when outside testing sites began to notice a fowl stink in the air of false claims. The REASON it looks different than other TRUE 120Hz sets is again, because it is NOT 120Hz.. No equivocation, it's literally black & white. It's operating at 60Hz period!.
I had a chat session with an LG support rep and they informed me that the LG panels for 2012 all use a specific Backlight method. I forget what they called it, but pretty much what the TV does is throw a dark frame in between the picture which causes it to not have such a "soap opera" effect.
"LGs spokesperson told us they are using a technique called “Black Frame Insertion.” Their claim: in between the 60 active images, LG shuts off the LEDs sequentially from top to bottom. This shortens the time the LCD panel is illuminated in section by section thereby reducing motion blur.
60 Hz LCDs sample a frame and keep the same image about 16.67 ms. This allows little time for the pixels to move to create the next frame. The panel holds the image and then repositions the pixels quickly for the next frame. Our eyes and brains are programmed for seeing continuous motion, not sample and hold, change and repeat. The result is we see smear know as motion blur.
A proven technique to reduce motion blur is to sequentially darken the image from top to bottom, making that portion of the frame black instead of an illuminated still image. This reduces the visible hold time and the brain perceives sharper motion. This is the technique LG claimed to use in the 6700.
Our Test Results
To confirm LG’s backlight scanning claim we used a video camera recording at 480 Hz (four times the 120 Hz claimed refresh rate). We then chose a slow-motion playback of 15fps to illustrate the LED shut off sequence. As you can clearly see in the video, the 55LM6700 does not employ top to bottom scanning. Instead, it shuts off the LEDs at the sides, then the center and repeats the sequence." -HDGURU article was written about the 6700 but it applies to the lower tiers of LG. / follow the links I posted above if you want to watch the video they speak of.
So to sum up so far... LG made a claim on their box of 120Hz Tru-motion. What they gave instead was a smoothing method that they because of the design of the LEDs on these TVs there are not actually able to implement a top to bottom black frame (again see the video) and ALL THAT IS STILL BESIDES THE POINT I don't want to lose sight of the FACT that it's nothing remotely close to actual 120Hz frame rate. And what they do CLAIM to offer is not done correctly, because of the design of these TV's LED array; they couldn't actually implemented the top to bottom dark frame. I'm all for innovation and new ways of doing things if it's a step forward but this is an incorrectly implements step backwards resulting in a poorer product that they claimed was still at the previous years higher standard!
So last year's LG 3D models all use a method where they throw in a regular picture frame that's lit instead of dark in between the picture. I asked the rep what passive 3D TV's didn't have this method and she informed me the panels from 2012 all use this "Dark Frame" method,...
Prior to these 2012 models:
"120 Hz refresh HDTVs employ a circuit called Motion Estimation/Motion Compensation (ME/MC). These chips analyze consecutive original frames then create and insert synthesized frames between the original frames. This results in better motion resolution. To date, using the industry accepted FPD reference disc, we’ve found every 60 Hz LCD we’ve tested has about 320 lines of resolution. With ME/MC circuit engaged on a ME/MC circuit-equipped 120 Hz HDTV, the motion resolution increases to 600 lines.
All 60 Hz HDTVs use a technique called 3-2 pulldown, which converts the 24 original frames to 60 Hz by displaying the same frame three times then the next frame twice, then the next one three times etc. During pans, this uneven cadence creates a jerkiness called judder. We use a judder test sequence on the Marvell Qdeo test disc to test whether TVs created smooth motion with 24 frame sources.
We asked LG if any of its 2012 HDTVs with a factory specification of 120Hz refresh rate employ an ME/MC chip. The response was no. LGs spokesperson told us they are using a technique called “Black Frame Insertion.” ...
Contrary to LG’s claim, this technique had no effect at all on the TVs motion resolution. We tried Cinema and Expert picture modes and observed the same results, 320 lines of motion resolution, the same motion resolution as every make and model 60 Hz LED and LCD we’ve tested to date. Furthermore, there was always judder present, again confirming 3:2 pulldown as in a 60 Hz display. We were able to shut off the blinking LEDs by placing the TV in its “Game” mode, and found the motion blur results were the same as when the lights were blinking, only 320 lines of motion resolution .
We presented our findings to LG. They confirmed the LEDs in the 55LM6700 are only mounted at the bottom of the screen, making a vertical scan impossible as they would have to be mounted under on the left and right edges). LG provided its own 24fps judder test material; however, we saw the same judder as observed using our Qdeo test disc.
Based on our findings we asked how they could call this HDTV a 120 Hz model. Their response: “With respect to these advanced testing methods, the results illustrated are an overly magnified representation of the average user experience; what really matters is what consumers can see with their own two eyes.”
LG continues to post on its website, and dealer descriptions, simulated photos showing a significant reduction of motion blur with its claimed “TruMotion 120Hz” refresh. (photo below) [See the article linked in my post, a few above, to see the images]
We find these claims incorrect and unsupportable based on the FPD motion resolution tests used by HD Guru and other major well-respected TV reviewers. Our high-speed camera clearly shows LGs scanning claim to be incorrect as well. This TV is a 60 Hz LED LCD. All tests yield no motion blur reduction compared to any 60Hz TV" - HDGuru (Link posted several posts above)
There is NO comparison between say watching a High Definition fast action scene like a Blu-ray movie or sports event in 60Hz with the Black frame insertion software based display & TRUE 120HZ ME/MC chip where the user can dial in the amount of judder correction to their liking. The 120Hz allows the 24fps and 30fps refresh without the interpolation 3:2 pulldown of 60Hz causing in judder effect.
...but that panels from2011 don't use the "Dark Frame" method. Unfortunately all panels from 2011 are active 3D TV's which is not what I want.
This is absolutely incorrect. LG Plasma used Active shutter glasses, but LG LED/LCD used passive 3D just like they do this year, the difference being that those having 120Hz technology actually had it installed. It wasn't a lie!
I then asked if she had any news on 2013 panels and if they also indeed have this "Dark Frame" feature and she was unable to give me the information because they were only in the pre-sale status. Now I apologize that I don't remember the specific name for this "Dark Frame" method but the rep was very quick to answer my question and if they weren't closed right now I would just pop in a chat session to ask again.
I hope this helps everyone and besides the 120hz feature I absolutely love my LG TV. I got it at a fantastic price of $601 at Fry's which is a steal especially since I received free shipping.
HOWEVER, giving LG the benefit of the doubt for the mistakes of having it plastered all over the U.S. Boxes and over the U.S. Website when the "Mistake" was pointed out; the response was (posted above): "With respect to these advanced testing methods, the results illustrated are an overly magnified representation of the average user experience; what really matters is what consumers can see with their own two eyes." - Translation most consumers don't / won't know the difference --> a statement that I and others who like to get what they pay for and know how to dial in a TV find to be were they transition from having made a possible "mistake" into willful knowledge of the lie/issue and using a false equivalency argument to say it's basically the same as 120Hz Tru-Motion which is Damn Lie!
Edited by DA1745 - 1/25/13 at 8:24pm
