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My LMS Ultra build... Houston we have a problem

post #1 of 24
11/4/12 at 4:54am
Thread Starter 
So hanging around this forum for too long had me ready to try a big DIY project... about two years ago I made a clone sonosub out of an old HSU design and had decent results so I felt confident that I knew what I was in for. In my main movie room I had a Def Tech Trinity for about two years and while I was impressed with it, I had the nagging itch to see what a DIY project would do. Long story short, this spring I was able to obtain a LMS Ultra 5400 for what I thought was a decent price. The sub was about 200 miles away and my father picked it up for me. The cone had a slight dent in it but looked in good shape otherwise. I thought I was going to do the build in a short time and be up and running... and a short time became 4 months later. I finally finished my cabinet yesterday, had everything wired, and got the driver in the recessed hole with the zip tie trick (genius to the person that came up with that). Hooked the sub up to my bridged QSC ISA750 amp and Mic2200 preamp... ran the test tone from my Denon 4311 and nothing. Started troubleshooting everything and couldn't see an obvious issue with my setup. I removed the sub from the box to make sure I had wired for 4 ohm operation and I had. Finally I brought the sub in to my sono setup which I knew was rock solid and ran it off of one side of an EP1500... no sound. I used an old SVS driver I have laying around and it rumbled immediately. I have now watched several Youtube vids about wiring and I'm good there. The woofer moves freely up and down and there are no scraping noises. My wonder is the voice coil... it doesn't look all clean and coppery, it doesn't look all black... but I'm no expert. Attached are pics of the cabinet, the wiring scheme (white single wire going + to -, other wire running to amp), and the voice coil. Any and all help appreciated!






Edited by laeriq - 11/4/12 at 7:28am
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post #2 of 24
11/4/12 at 5:40am
The coil looks normal for an LMS-U from that pic.

I would first use a multimeter and check the resistance of the coil. Here is a how to if you're unsure.
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post #3 of 24
11/4/12 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
Well good news is that one voice coil measured out at 2.3 ohms... bad news is I couldn't get a reading on the other one. I'm using the cheap Harbor Freight multimeter... ohm setting at 200. One VC measures at 2.3, the other just reads 1 and won't move the meter at all. So I'm thinking now that I have a bad vc... is there a cheap fix for this or am I looking at a new basket?
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post #4 of 24
11/4/12 at 8:05am
Thread Starter 
Read about the nine volt battery trick... worked perfectly on my 2.3 ohm side, sub didn't move on other side. Very disappointing... any other checks I should make before I assume bad vc?
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post #5 of 24
11/4/12 at 9:49am
Check the leads coming from the binding posts. Maybe you'll get lucky and its just a disconnected terminal or shorted/split lead.
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post #6 of 24
11/4/12 at 11:43am
Fortunately, if that is case, at least it is a detachable/modular system unlike most other drivers.

That is a bummer.
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post #7 of 24
11/4/12 at 2:10pm
The coils are darker than some from the bakling process. You could have a faulty solder joint connection the tinsel lead to a binding post. If you sourced it from PE send an email, they'll sort you.
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post #8 of 24
11/4/12 at 4:27pm
I believe he bought off of a poster here. If it is who I think it is, I would trust the person that sold it to you.
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post #9 of 24
11/4/12 at 4:50pm
Thread Starter 
Unfortunately I bought it off Craigslist and not a member here AFAIK. I did text him last night when I was getting nothing and he suggested some things that unfortunately didn't work. I was waiting until this thread played out a bit before texting him that I have a voice coil issue. I did examine the leads and don't seen anything that appears wrong... as stated earlier the sub looks to be in decent condition. Here are a few more pics of the leads and the top of the sub

-




I'll probably text the seller tonight and see what he can do... in his Craigslist ad he stated the sub was still under warranty and hopefully that's the case. I appreciate the input so far:D
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post #10 of 24
11/4/12 at 5:21pm
cones dented also which is physical damage which means it was being abused which could caused the voice coil to die so its not under any warranty unless tc has the best customer service or they are ran as a charity.
heres the warranty. gl hopefully they dont change u a ton for a new voice coil.

no covered
Misuse or over excursion
Thermal abuse to the voice coil or glues around the voice coil
Thermal abuse to the lead wires on the spiders
Mechanical damage due to overexciting or excessive acceleration
Dents in the cone from bottoming out the driver or inadvertent force
Spider sag due to gravity in a down or up firing position for long periods of time
Damage due to moisture
Shipping damages
Cosmetic damage
Consequential damage on other components
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post #11 of 24
11/4/12 at 6:49pm
Thread Starter 
Here's my text conversation with the seller... I'm in bold type...

Well after some time on the Internet and working on the sub, I'm pretty sure it has a bad voice coil. I used a multimeter and one side measured 2.3 ohms but the other side didn't move the meter. I used a nine volt battery and it moved the 2.3 side but not the other side. You said the sub was still under warranty...how do we go about taking care of that?

When i sold it to you it was working fine. Idk if the warrenty is still good

In the ad you said 'It almso comes with a 1 year warrenty.' Which is the verbatim quote from the Craigslist ad. How can you check on the warranty?

Its been many months. Idk if even TC sounds is still in buisness since they started to sell from parts express

Pe still sells tc sounds and I'm pretty sure handles the warranty issues. What I would need is a bill of sale/receipt.

Tcsounds.com has the warranty info.

And that's where its at right now... I found some other places online where he advertised the warranty also including on ebay where it went unsold. While I'm annoyed at myself and doubtful I'll see a positive resolution, the worst part is that people do this stuff... frown.gif
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post #12 of 24
11/4/12 at 7:18pm
The lesson here is that when you receive anything from anyone test it immediately to be sure it works, so that if it doesn't you can send it back and get a refund, or failing that file a chargeback with your credit card or paypal within the allowed period.
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post #13 of 24
11/4/12 at 7:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The lesson here is that when you receive anything from anyone test it immediately to be sure it works, so that if it doesn't you can send it back and get a refund, or failing that file a chargeback with your credit card or paypal within the allowed period.

I love that Yoda is the avatar for this statement... too true. I do wish I'd tested it earlier, though I suspect that the seller may not have taken responsibility regardless. Plus cash transactions are much more difficult to rectify... if this was an ebay issue it would be easy. So it goes...
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post #14 of 24
11/4/12 at 9:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by laeriq View Post

Unfortunately I bought it off Craigslist and not a member here AFAIK. I did text him last night when I was getting nothing and he suggested some things that unfortunately didn't work. I was waiting until this thread played out a bit before texting him that I have a voice coil issue. I did examine the leads and don't seen anything that appears wrong... as stated earlier the sub looks to be in decent condition. Here are a few more pics of the leads and the top of the sub
-

That cone looks like it has been over driven. I blew up a LMS U a few weeks back and the cone looks like that. I would not have high hopes for that driver.
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post #15 of 24
11/5/12 at 12:49am
sorry to hear about this.

if he knowingly misrepresented the item and you relied on his misrepresentation, that is called the tort of fraud. print off the claims that he made and sue him in small claims court.

if he has any brains, he will pay to remedy the situation without getting a judgment against him or simply refund your money.
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post #16 of 24
11/5/12 at 1:51am
I hate to say it... but waiting four months, that's going to be a tough hurdle to clear. Even if you had used eBay and Paypal, after four months your 'buyers protection' would be worthless. Unless the original listing specifically mentions the dent, and ideally had a picture of it... the seller could claim you damaged it. I'm not saying you have no recourse but going to small claims court with no evidence of prior damage by no means assures you a favorable decision.
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post #17 of 24
11/5/12 at 5:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by laeriq View Post

Plus cash transactions are much more difficult to rectify... .
Lesson two, never pay with cash. If the seller won't take PayPal or a credit card walk away.
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post #18 of 24
11/5/12 at 5:23am
Whatever happens just remember this is a HOBBY and the goal is to have FUN. If you need to have the driver repaired or have the motor replaced, so be it. I've kept myself up so many nights worry about how/when to fix stuff like this and I regret letting it get to me. The bottom line is anything like this can be fixed (even if it winds up being at your own cost) so don't stress about it. Don't let one bad experience taint your perception of your hobby. Your box looks great and you did a good job with it BTW.

Best of luck.

Andrew
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post #19 of 24
11/5/12 at 11:56am

ouch.

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post #20 of 24
11/5/12 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Whatever happens just remember this is a HOBBY and the goal is to have FUN. If you need to have the driver repaired or have the motor replaced, so be it. I've kept myself up so many nights worry about how/when to fix stuff like this and I regret letting it get to me. The bottom line is anything like this can be fixed (even if it winds up being at your own cost) so don't stress about it. Don't let one bad experience taint your perception of your hobby. Your box looks great and you did a good job with it BTW.
Best of luck.
Andrew

Don't stress about it... Tall task for some.

Your box looks great! However, if you are planning on adding a grill at some point, you are going to run into issues using a single baffle recess.
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post #21 of 24
11/5/12 at 4:38pm
Thread Starter 
Wow thanks for all the replies... and Bill thanks for Yoda again! My oldest son is kinda interested in Star Wars but when Yoda pops up he's all ears. I haven't heard back from my seller since the above conversation... I'll text him again and see what results. Legal action is possible I suppose... I do have all the emails, texts, original CL ad, along with some posts on other forums where he advertised it. Plus I got married in my lawyer's back yard up the street so getting legal advice isn't difficult:D Of course I'd prefer not to go that route so hopefully he and I can come to an agreement on something. And thanks Gorilla83 for the perspective... I've been into this stuff for about five years and this is really the first issue I've ever run into. OTOH, I've been on ebay since November of '99 so I do have some experience dealing with what I'm dealing with. I'm still annoyed with myself but so it goes. And thanks for the compliments on the box... its really nothing special just a take on the Funky Waves build that Warp did and a basic black texture. Hopefully it sounds good when I get set up!
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post #22 of 24
11/7/12 at 10:59am
Quote:
When i sold it to you it was working fine. Idk if the warrenty is still good


Its been many months. Idk if even TC sounds is still in buisness since they started to sell from parts express

Win I see theze bold mistakes, this iz win I start to consider other opshuns...

All that aside, the good news is you can get a new top assembly for a decent price. Having a working motor is half the battle and you seem to have that.
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post #23 of 24
11/28/12 at 1:03am
laeriq,

Did you ever buy a new basket and get back up and running?
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post #24 of 24
11/28/12 at 6:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

laeriq,
Did you ever buy a new basket and get back up and running?

Actually I ended up getting a whole 'new to me' sub... found an LMS that fixmyspeaker.com had done for a reasonable price and went for it. The owner took Paypal wink.gif and was very good about responding to my questions etc. I've only been able to play with it for about an hour but WOW... watching it move during the Hulk sonic cannons and the pod scene in WOW was impressive. Unfortunately as you can see from my picture (the shiny gold) my movie room is about to become Xmas central so I won't be able to play with it much more for awhile. After all that is over, I do plan to ask some questions on the MIC2200 and hopefully do some measuring so I can see what I have on my hands. I do still have the old broken basket and am working with my lawyer on how to handle that. Some day I'll have a pair of Ultras... scary stuff biggrin.gif Thanks again to all that have chimed in on this thread the advice and reassurance has been invaluable.

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