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LightSpace CMS Now Supports Lumagen + eeColor 3D-LUT 4 All - Page 23

post #661 of 710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post

Thanks for the positive comments smile.gif

Matching probes is fairly simple.
You just record the RGBW values measured with each probe and enter them into the LightSpace 'Probe Options' menu as Active and Reference data.
LightSpace by default uses code values of 240 to prevent display clipping distorting the measured values.

You should really re-profile each and every time...

VideoScale should be used on the generated LUT before uploading into the eColor box for home TV use, as all home TVs are 'Legal Video' range.

Hope this helps.

Steve

So even though HCL only supports the i1 Display pro, I will still be able to take readings with an i1pro in order to enter the data needed to profile?

Exactly, use HCFR, CalMAN, ChromaPure, with any meter, JETI, i1PRO1/2 etc, and then enter the xy cordinates of RGBW patches manually inside LightSpace.
post #662 of 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Exactly, use HCFR, CalMAN, ChromaPure, with any meter, JETI, i1PRO1/2 etc, and then enter the xy cordinates of RGBW patches manually inside LightSpace.

Ok, wasn't sure if i needed to take the measurements with other software. I think i got it, will know for sure once everything arrives.biggrin.gif
post #663 of 710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Please give me some time, I'm preparing something very detailed, with many picture examples for meter profiling with LightSpace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Please do! I am very interested in how to enter meter profile data with HCC. I had Calman5 and the matrix format is quite different from what I see in your website (XYZ vs RGBW values). If possible, can you also address this in your write-up? Thanks Tedd!

Looking forward to it!

I will show picture examples with text and arrows for every move, how to perform meter correction with HCC and HCL versions wink.gif
post #664 of 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Ted will show you the way. With HCC the only time consumption of note is changing from one meter to another. In HCL, the reference meter data must be entered manually.

yeah.. sorry, I mean I am interested in the HCL (the cheaper one), as I have a i1D-OEM and i1Pro... I need to know how to enter it manually or how do I convert this from CALMAN format (XYZ 3x3 matrix) to it.
post #665 of 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

yeah.. sorry, I mean I am interested in the HCL (the cheaper one), as I have a i1D-OEM and i1Pro... I need to know how to enter it manually or how do I convert this from CALMAN format (XYZ 3x3 matrix) to it.

Hello.

I own HCL + i1D3 + i1pro2.

LSCMS needs 2 files to make probe matching : one for the ACTIVE PROBE (i1D3) and another for the REFERENCE PROBE (i1pro2).

To create the file for the active probe you can use LSCMS to measure RGBW (at 75%) [ MEASURE ALL], it means that LSCMS can populate automatically the corresponding values into the table xy (+Y for W).

To create the file for the reference probe you need to use another SW to take the measurements RGBW (at 75%) with the i1pro2 and to enter manually the corresponding values into the table xy (+Y for W) [UPDATE BUTTON for each patch].

Before to start you calibration you just have to select the file created for i1D3 in the combo list for ACTIVE PROBE and to select the file created for i1pro2 in the combo list for REFERENCE PROBE.

That's all.

it's better to redo the matching process at each new calibration session.

alex
post #666 of 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Exactly, use HCFR, CalMAN, ChromaPure, with any meter, JETI, i1PRO1/2 etc, and then enter the xy cordinates of RGBW patches manually inside LightSpace.

no need for a 3rd party software. You can do profiling with LighSpace, even if You have only HCL version.
There is the free DPS version available at Light Illusion which supports all probes.
Just request a key for DPS at the Light Illusion website.

LighSpace activation is a 2 step process. 1st You have to activate, 2nd You have to enter the licence key to unlock functions.
Install LightSpace and activate but don't enter the licence key. Close LS and copy the complete installion directory to a different location e.g. Your desktop.
Start the original version and enter the licence key for HCL, close LS.
Start the copy of LS and enter the licence key for DPS.

Now you can use the DPS version to get the xy values for Your reference probe.

I've only tested this by running only one instance of LS. You may find out for yourself if You can run both versions simultaneous.
post #667 of 710
I want to use my Radiance Mini as a pattern generator for the eeColor. How can I force the Mini to output reference pattern and not adjustable ones?
Or do I have to use the adjustable pattern with Null Cube?
When profiling with the Mini as pattern generator, does LS use 240 or 235? Respectively how can I tell LS what pattern (stimuli) to use for profiling?
post #668 of 710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

I want to use my Radiance Mini as a pattern generator for the eeColor. How can I force the Mini to output reference pattern and not adjustable ones?
Or do I have to use the adjustable pattern with Null Cube?
When profiling with the Mini as pattern generator, does LS use 240 or 235? Respectively how can I tell LS what pattern (stimuli) to use for profiling?

Hello, look this change of meter profiling change of latest LightSpace may confuse some users, so I give some clealer details.

LightSpace before 1820 build was using for example for red patch (in case you used It's internal pattern generator) the RGB Triplet 255.0.0 value.

Some PC Monitors where they are not having internal calibration controls, their 100% red or other color channel may clip, but this is not happening in HT calibrations, because before running the meter profiling we always checking Contrast Patterns / RGB Color Clipping Patterns to prepare the display before running any measurement.... Also in HT world, we use 235.16.16 as 100% Red, and the Lumagen is also generates values of Video TV Legel Levels 16-235 when it's used as a pattern generator.

The same is happening with my disk also, when you profiling a meter and you are using the 100% Amplitude Patterns, for example the 100% Red the RGB Triplets are 235.16.16, for the 75% Red Amplitude the RGB Triplets are 180.16.16.

So when you are using LightSpace with Lumagen, it used the 222.16.16 for Red (which means 240.0.0 in Data Level).

Using Disk patterns the advantage is that you can use any % Amplitude Pattern you like, it doesn't matter since the LightSpace applyed the meter correction to all levels, just I'm suggesting to all to use 100% Amplitude Patterns for i1PRO1/2 users because these meters are not so accurate at low luminance levels and by measuring using 75% Amplitude Patttens , the Luminance of the patches are droped 50% vs. the 100% Amplitude ones.
post #669 of 710
Thanks for clarifying Ted.
I thought 240 was refering to video level, which doesn't make sense to me as video is 16-235. Brainless today... mad.gif
Amplitude for profiling should be selectable and not hard-coded, everyone can check where the display is clipping. For meters like i1pro it is necessary to have as much light as possible, especially for blue.

But what about the reference pattern output?
Edited by DrFaxe - 2/7/14 at 4:58am
post #670 of 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

Thanks for clarifying Ted.
I thought 240 was refering to video level, which doesn't make sense to me as video is 16-235. Brainless today... mad.gif
Amplitude for profiling should be selectable and not hard-coded, everyone can check where the display is clipping. For meters like i1pro it is necessary to have as much light as possible, especially for blue.

But what about the reference pattern output?

By sending NULL CUBE from LS to the Radiance then the CMS used is forced at its default values and it is exactly the same thing as the REFERENCE mode.
post #671 of 710
Note - "NULL CUBE " also sets back other CMS parameters as "Black", "White" and so on. So after performing that, check them, if you need them.
post #672 of 710
I know the LS initial display setup guide states to use as few internal controls as possible. On my display cyan and magenta are heavily shifted towards blue. Would there be any harm in manually adjusting cyan and blue to be a bit closer to target via the displays cms controls before running a profile? I would think the closer you can get to target in the beginning without upsetting other characteristics of the display the better the outcome.
post #673 of 710
If the internal CMS allows for that, without causing other issues (such as colour overlap/rollover) then it's worth trying...
If the problem is due to poor filters in a 6 colour filter wheel (as is likely based on our discussions) then it may actually cause other problems.

But, I would give it a try!
You will quickly know from the resulting LUT when checked internally within LightSpace via the 'LUT Preview' function and the 'ColourRamp.tif' image.

Steve
post #674 of 710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

I know the LS initial display setup guide states to use as few internal controls as possible. On my display cyan and magenta are heavily shifted towards blue. Would there be any harm in manually adjusting cyan and blue to be a bit closer to target via the displays cms controls before running a profile? I would think the closer you can get to target in the beginning without upsetting other characteristics of the display the better the outcome.

3ebe050c_image.jpeg

Since you have my disk already, and your Panasonic has 2 Custom Memories, do the Grayscale pre-calibration at Memory 1 and leave the Gamut at Native.

Later copy these settings from Memory 1 to Memory 2, and use your Display CMS Controls to fix these error you noticed at Memory 2.

After the end of your tweaking, use the patterns you can find at the Color Reproduction Session of my disk and compare these 2 memories to see if you can notice any problem like: no smooth color ramp graduations, distortions, discoloration, clipping, banding etc.

If you don't see any problem, move to LightSpace and take 2 Quick Profiling Runs of Memory 1 +2 and see if the tweaking you performed at Memory 2 is improving or make worse your RGB Separation Chart.

* The Color Ramp Patterns Steve is mentioning are located to the above page of Color Reproduction Patterns of the disk.
post #675 of 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post

If the internal CMS allows for that, without causing other issues (such as colour overlap/rollover) then it's worth trying...
If the problem is due to poor filters in a 6 colour filter wheel (as is likely based on our discussions) then it may actually cause other problems.

But, I would give it a try!
You will quickly know from the resulting LUT when checked internally within LightSpace via the 'LUT Preview' function and the 'ColourRamp.tif' image.

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

3ebe050c_image.jpeg

Since you have my disk already, and your Panasonic has 2 Custom Memories, do the Grayscale pre-calibration at Memory 1 and leave the Gamut at Native.

Later copy these settings from Memory 1 to Memory 2, and use your Display CMS Controls to fix these error you noticed at Memory 2.

After the end of your tweaking, use the patterns you can find at the Color Reproduction Session of my disk and compare these 2 memories to see if you can notice any problem like: no smooth color ramp graduations, distortions, discoloration, clipping, banding etc.

If you don't see any problem, move to LightSpace and take 2 Quick Profiling Runs of Memory 1 +2 and see if the tweaking you performed at Memory 2 is improving or make worse your RGB Separation Chart.

* The Color Ramp Patterns Steve is mentioning are located to the above page of Color Reproduction Patterns of the disk.

Thanks guys, makes sense. Just waiting for my disc to arrive along with my i1pro back from spectracal. I did receive my eodis1 so i may play around with just that meter this weekend.
post #676 of 710
Are you able to load lut's into the eecolor box when it is part of the signal chain or must you disconnect the hdmi cables first?
post #677 of 710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

Are you able to load lut's into the eecolor box when it is part of the signal chain or must you disconnect the hdmi cables first?

Hello, you can do the uploading (using eeColor Application Software) while the eeColor is powered on.

You can do it while you watching a movie with a LUT active, no problem.... when the uploading will be completed, you will be able to load the new LUT's with your remote.

You can follow Steve's Guide here.
post #678 of 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Hello, you can do the uploading (using eeColor Application Software) while the eeColor is powered on.

You can do it while you watching a movie with a LUT active, no problem.... when the uploading will be completed, you will be able to load the new LUT's with your remote.

You can follow Steve's Guide here.

Thanks i have uploaded a lut when i first received the box and it was not part of my display chain yet. Good to know i dont have to disconnect when i want to upload.
post #679 of 710
Just picked up a darbee from Ebay for a price i couldn't refuse. If i don't like it I can easily recoup my cost. Debating if it should be before or after the eecolor box in the video chain? Also not sure if i should calibrate with the darbee in the chain or not?
post #680 of 710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

Just picked up a darbee from Ebay for a price i couldn't refuse. If i don't like it I can easily recoup my cost. Debating if it should be before or after the eecolor box in the video chain? Also not sure if i should calibrate with the darbee in the chain or not?

Hello, I have the same setup here, eeColor + Darbee.

When you taking any measurement or using any Color Reproduction Pattern, disable the Darbee processing.

As Darbee works at the pixel level by changing luminance values to make the details more noticed / add more depth, the logic says to put it after eeColor, for Darbee to process the Calibrated Luminance values.

I have placed if after eeColor to my setup too.
post #681 of 710
So while I am still waiting for my i1pro to be returned and Ted's disk to arrive, I decided to play around a bit with the digital version of Ted's disk comparing various patterns with the lut enabled and then disabled. It seems the lut is doing some funky things in the color space, especially green where it looks like a hurricane in one area.. Could that be due to a few bad readings? I also noticed blacks seem to be a bit crushed. I took pics of the screen showing the lut enabled and disabled with color ramps along with black box tunnel. Thoughts?


With lut

Without lut

Without lut

With lut
post #682 of 710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

So while I am still waiting for my i1pro to be returned and Ted's disk to arrive, I decided to play around a bit with the digital version of Ted's disk comparing various patterns with the lut enabled and then disabled. It seems the lut is doing some funky things in the color space, especially green where it looks like a hurricane in one area.. Could that be due to a few bad readings? I also noticed blacks seem to be a bit crushed. I took pics of the screen showing the lut enabled and disabled with color ramps along with black box tunnel. Thoughts?


With lut

Without lut

Without lut

With lut

Hello, can you give some details of the setup you are using right now?

Also what LUT you have loaded?
post #683 of 710
This test was done via hdmi out of laptop, mpc-hc player with lav and madvr. Output is verified as 16-235. When Steve let me trail LS i created a 17^3 lut via hdmi out of laptop using LS internal patterns with my i1pro.
post #684 of 710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

This test was done via hdmi out of laptop, mpc-hc player with lav and madvr. Output is verified as 16-235. When Steve let me trail LS i created a 17^3 lut via hdmi out of laptop using LS internal patterns with my i1pro.

Ok, export the measurement file, to do this, from inside LightSpace, go to Manage ColorSpace window and export the 17p measurements file. Copy also the 65-Point TXT file you have loaded to your eeColor.

Attach and send these 2 files to my email, for me to see what is happening.
post #685 of 710
I have Mike's profile, and there are some rather strange readings within it, as can be seen in the Cube view of the generated LUT.



Not sure of the cause, but as soon as Mike gets his i1D3 he will be able to do a lot more profiling biggrin.gif
post #686 of 710
Oh, Mike, you'll also need to use a 'Filter' to deal with the 'blacks'.
The probe has not read well in the shadows, so you will need to filter that out - a 'Relax' filter will probably be best, with a value of around 0.1...

post #687 of 710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post

I have Mike's profile, and there are some rather strange readings within it, as can be seen in the Cube view of the generated LUT.



Not sure of the cause, but as soon as Mike gets his i1D3 he will be able to do a lot more profiling biggrin.gif

Steve, I have talked with Mike from yesterday several times, he (accidentally) used DIP mode 1sec with i1PRO Spectro. He will have new data's soon by using the Closed Loop Mode.
post #688 of 710
Thanks again for your help guys. Just waiting for my meter situation to be resolved before i dive in again.
post #689 of 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

no need for a 3rd party software. You can do profiling with LighSpace, even if You have only HCL version.
There is the free DPS version available at Light Illusion which supports all probes.
Just request a key for DPS at the Light Illusion website.

LighSpace activation is a 2 step process. 1st You have to activate, 2nd You have to enter the licence key to unlock functions.
Install LightSpace and activate but don't enter the licence key. Close LS and copy the complete installion directory to a different location e.g. Your desktop.
Start the original version and enter the licence key for HCL, close LS.
Start the copy of LS and enter the licence key for DPS.

Now you can use the DPS version to get the xy values for Your reference probe.

I've only tested this by running only one instance of LS. You may find out for yourself if You can run both versions simultaneous.

Tried this method following your directions and no matter how i tried, whichever license i entered first the other version would already be licensed under the same license when i opened it. Guess i will just install the free version to take the i1pro measurements, uninstall then re-install with the hcl license to complete the profiling process.
post #690 of 710
Hi njfoses,

sorry to hear that this is not working for You. I have to add that I used a clean windows system. Did You have installed any LS version before You tried this?
Most uninstallers will not remove everything when You deinstall a software. It is possible that the licence information is stored in the Windows Registry or in the user files and still kept even You deinstalled the software.
I will check this when I'm back home.
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