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Mfusick's How to build an affordable 30TB Flexraid media server: Information Requested.! - Page 53

post #1561 of 3346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Is that original Xbox drive or 360 ?

I updated my post to reflect the Xbox 360 HD-DVD player.
post #1562 of 3346
Mfusick, this question is for you.

Right now I am testing out the Flexraid (RAID feature, since I am using Stablebit for pooling) for data redundancy on my 2008 R2 server, but my basic question is, would this protection be needed for all media files, namely for files that are static like movies and such. I know critical stuff will be backed up to an external and then stored offsite (I don't bother with cloud services).

Also, how do you generally set up your scheduling for validating and such? I'm trying to wrap my head around this, but basically if a drive was somehow lost with several TB's of data on it, it can be replaced and rebuilt based on the parity drives. Since I am using two of the 24-bay servers I got from Tams, possibly one or two of those bays would be lost to parity drives.

I'm very close to getting the software and hardware needs worked out before finally beginning building my media collection on the server. biggrin.gif
post #1563 of 3346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post

Mfusick, this question is for you.

Right now I am testing out the Flexraid (RAID feature, since I am using Stablebit for pooling) for data redundancy on my 2008 R2 server, but my basic question is, would this protection be needed for all media files, namely for files that are static like movies and such. I know critical stuff will be backed up to an external and then stored offsite (I don't bother with cloud services).

Also, how do you generally set up your scheduling for validating and such? I'm trying to wrap my head around this, but basically if a drive was somehow lost with several TB's of data on it, it can be replaced and rebuilt based on the parity drives. Since I am using two of the 24-bay servers I got from Tams, possibly one or two of those bays would be lost to parity drives.

I'm very close to getting the software and hardware needs worked out before finally beginning building my media collection on the server. biggrin.gif

Yes I think that is all you would need for basic protection for your media files. If it's just media parity recovery is enough IMO. Backing up with cloud, or duplicity is impractical IMO, and also unnecessary.

As for set up I do the standard 1 day, 1 week, 1 month most people do. I would follow the Wiki on that. Otherwise SpectrumBx (Brahim from Flexraid) had a post I had quoted earlier in this thread with some more specific recommendations about your question of scheduling.

Lastly, Yes if you lose one of you data drives you can recover it pretty easily from parity. You would install a new HDD, or assign one you want to use as the recovery drive. It must be as big as the failed drive. Click recover and that's it.
post #1564 of 3346
Hardware gets delivered today. Quick question. The mobo supports uefi of course (ASRock Z87 Extreme4) and I am trying to figure out the best wasy to install WHS 2011 on to a 3TB drive.

We all know that there are lots of issues with 3TB drives and it sounds like I need the drives to be GBT instead of MBR which is fine for the data drives, but does WHS let me select GBT for the boot drive during install? I am fearing that it doesn't.

I don't really need the boot drive to be a full single 3TB partition, actually I just want a 700ish GB boot partition and the rest (2TB) for a drive to use for some data that will NOT be part of my media pool. Sounds simple enough, but I kept seeing people say that unless you get the drive into GBT mode PRIOR to using with WHS it will never see that 700ishGB of usable space above 2TB. Well, my current primary desktop PC, as fast as it is compared to current technology, doesn't support uefi so I can't set it up there and then put it into the media server and install WHS.

Thoughts or ideas?

Again, it doesn't need to be 1 single 2.7TB partition, but I do want to be able to use all of that space over 2 partitions and without GBT I won't be able to.

Or am I stuck with installing WHS or even Win7 temporarily on the new server just to get the boot drive that I want to use set up with GBT? Or is it something I can do with some BIOS tool?

Just trying to plan for tonight's fun. Thanks!
post #1565 of 3346
get an SSD for the OS drive wink.gifsmile.gif
and use the 3TB one for data
post #1566 of 3346
Thread Starter 
I used a 60gb then and currently a 120gb SSD.

WHS2011 has a minimum 160gb partition size required so I hacked the wordpad doc with the f10 hack and just edited 160gb to 60gb.

I've never used a big 3 TB drive as an OS (this is a HUGE mistake IMO and you should rethink this)

You should not use a data drive for OS. Use a dedicated HDD for OS. If you lose your OS drive your screwed in that you lose all your data too. Using a separate HDD for OS this is not the case.

Once this is realized the decision to use an inexpensive SSD becomes easy since its not much more $ than a HDD.
post #1567 of 3346
SDD is silly for a my server in my opinion. HTPC absolutely. While there are other positive factors (no moving parts, size, etc), the main reasons people use SDD is for its speed, being cool, and being quiet. On a server these aren't as critical. Yes, one could argue that an SDD would last longer on a 24/7 machine. Then again, my primary desktop is still running on a "regular" hard drive for O/S and that PC stays on 24/7 (minus a reboot here and there) and has been on for over 3 years straight. Sure, it will fail someday, but anything with electricity running through it will fail. It is the spin up and stopping of a hard drive that is the hardest on it.

The data that would be on the 2GB partition is purely backup only of our home video and digital photos. They would get manually written to about once every 2-3 months and never be read until there was a HD failure in my primary computer. I will not be serving those files to any HTPC at all. This is just to allow me to repurpose a 1TB external drive currently used for that function on my primary desktop. The videos and photos would be accessed and manipulated as they are today, and that is on an internal drive on my primary desktop. So if that O/S drive fails, I still have all of that data elsewhere and can "restore" it to the "backup" partition on the server.

Hopefully that makes sense on my thoughts. I am in no way saying that you guys are wrong, just trying to provide a few more details since.

I would say that I could replace one of my primary desktop's 320GB or 500GB drives with the 3TB drive and then use one of those smaller drives for an O/S drive, but I was wanting to keep the hardware new for at least day 1 of the server. Plus I can't seem to get the 3TB to work well in the primary desktop due to lack of UEFI on it. I guess I could add it to my data pool, but holy crap Batman. Six 3TB drives is 18TB, or 16.32 formatted TB. That is a lot of space (maybe not as massive as your's Mfusick, but still big). That is 466 HD movies at 35GB each (and they won't be all that big).
Edited by nickbuol - 9/12/13 at 12:43pm
post #1568 of 3346
I use a 64GB SSD in my WHS2011 server too. It drastically sped up RDP and launching the Dashboard, two functions I seem to use quite a bit. I started with WHS2011 on a 250GB HDD before I switched. It's night and day. It also freed up a drive bay since I can just stick the SSD to the side without it having to be properly mounted.

Maybe it doesn't make sense in YOUR server but that doesn't make it silly.
post #1569 of 3346
Silly for MY server in my opinion.

Plus, if there is a 160GB minimum (without a work around) wouldn't it be better to get either 250/320/500GB hard drive (regular or SDD) to be "most compatible?"

SDDs at those sizes aren't cheap.
post #1570 of 3346
You can get refurb 240/256GB SSDs on Newegg pretty cheap. That's pretty much all I use now. I use the Corsair Force GS and GT refurb drives all the time.
post #1571 of 3346
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Silly for MY server in my opinion.

Plus, if there is a 160GB minimum (without a work around) wouldn't it be better to get either 250/320/500GB hard drive (regular or SDD) to be "most compatible?"

SDDs at those sizes aren't cheap.

It's a fake limitation that's easy to workaround. I have a 64GB SSD in my WHS2011 server. I cloned my HDD install but there's an easy way to get around it if you're doing it from scratch. After a couple of years I think my WHS2011 64GB SSD is still around 20GB free.

I am not saying an SSD is required (no more than using one is silly) but I did see a big improvement in the functions I use and again since it's an SSD I didn't have to mount it so it left a HDD bay free for data disks.
post #1572 of 3346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

I use a 64GB SSD in my WHS2011 server too. It drastically sped up RDP and launching the Dashboard, two functions I seem to use quite a bit. I started with WHS2011 on a 250GB HDD before I switched. It's night and day. It also freed up a drive bay since I can just stick the SSD to the side without it having to be properly mounted.

Maybe it doesn't make sense in YOUR server but that doesn't make it silly.

This.

He saved me some typing biggrin.gif
post #1573 of 3346
I hate you guys... Every time I try to not spend more money, I spend more money. Every time I try to talk myself out of something, I get talked into it. Grrrr... wink.gif

Found this for installed WHS on a drive that is less than 160GB:
Installing WHS 2011 on SSD or SATA Hard Drives smaller than 160GB

Of course since I want to build this thing tonight, I am trying to find a local source in Cedar Rapids, IA for a SDD.

Grrrr.... Darn you guys!
post #1574 of 3346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

I hate you guys... Every time I try to not spend more money, I spend more money. Every time I try to talk myself out of something, I get talked into it. Grrrr... wink.gif

Found this for installed WHS on a drive that is less than 160GB:
Installing WHS 2011 on SSD or SATA Hard Drives smaller than 160GB

Of course since I want to build this thing tonight, I am trying to find a local source in Cedar Rapids, IA for a SDD.

Grrrr.... Darn you guys!

I had a post and guide to do this earlier in this thread, even a seperate thread about it. If you get in trouble you can PM or text me (but not during the JETS vs PATS GAME tonight biggrin.gif )

You don't want to use the USB method. It sucks. I never get it to work for me mad.gif I use the F-10 Hack. Assassin originally had the USB method (and used it) in his guides but I never got that to work well so I found the F-10 hack method and it works much better (for me)
post #1575 of 3346
Thread Starter 
Here you go:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Windows 7 Home Premium 32Bit:
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-58996.iso
Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit:
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-58997.iso
Windows 7 Professional 32Bit:
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-59183.iso
Windows 7 Professional 64Bit:
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-59186.iso
Windows 7 Ultimate 32Bit:
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-59463.iso
Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit:
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-59465.iso

If your trying to install Windows home server to SSD smaller than 160GB here is how I do it:

Hit SHIFT +F10 to bring up command prompt. Then type : notepad.exe and hit enter. This will bring up the Notepad. Click file then open and browse to SKU/SERVERHOMEPREMIUM.def. You need to select all files at the bottom, and not just word files to see it. Then just edit the size of the HDD from the 160GB to anything you want it to be. Save and Close.

Then just type wpshell.exe and enter... set up will continue on your drive under 160GB smile.gif

post #1576 of 3346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

I hate you guys... Every time I try to not spend more money, I spend more money. Every time I try to talk myself out of something, I get talked into it. Grrrr... wink.gif

Of course since I want to build this thing tonight, I am trying to find a local source in Cedar Rapids, IA for a SDD.

Grrrr.... Darn you guys!

Keep in mind I was not trying to "sell" you on SSD (although I use it and believe in the benefits).

Rather, I was advising you against the error in using a data drive for OS. That is a big NO NO. You want to use a dedicated drive for your OS.

If you lose your OS drive... it sucks. But no data lost. You replace it, re install from back up and move on.
If you lose a data drive, you can recover it from parity. (your OS drive has not failed)

If you lose a OS drive that is also a data drive- you lose your install, and your data. No way to recover easily. Not good.

Dedicated OS drive is advised- either SSD or HDD.

You can probably find a dime a dozen Samsung 840 128GB somewhere near $100 ( a good choice if you get stuck)
post #1577 of 3346
Not having much luck locating a local source for an in stock SDD (we have Best Buy and Staples pretty much is all). Still calling around. (As I was typing this, I found out that Staples has one in stock. A Kingston 120GB for $129.99 plus 7% tax.)

Again, just for the now *old* idea of the 3TB O/S drive, the "data" on there would just be for backups (as in duplicate copies) of stuff from my primary desktop. It wouldn't be "live" data. If the O/S drive crashed, I would just copy the data again from my primary PC on to the new drive with the O/S and backup partition.

I completely and 100% agree that any live data as in frequently accessed, or data that was not stored anywhere else should NEVER be on an O/S drive.

Now to see if Best Buy has something better. I can't see spending that much on a SDD. I could get a new 500GB regular drive for $75 local.

*** EDIT: And Best Buy only has 250GB SDDs. Samsung for $209 and Toshiba for $219. Ugh.
Edited by nickbuol - 9/12/13 at 2:13pm
post #1578 of 3346
Thread Starter 
I think the first decision is to use a separate drive for OS. Once you make this choice, the small difference in price from HDD to SSD is worth the performance improvement. It's also worth waiting a couple more days and getting a really nice SSD 128GB for $99 like this:

$99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227915

$89
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147188

$79
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820721107

Good, Better, Best.. $10 step up each.

BB and staples carry the Samsung 840 PRO (PRO is better NAND inside) which is high end like the Vector I posted for $99 but they charge $149 for it. Not sure it's worth $50 just to have it now, but that is your choice. Not mine. Vector and Samsung 840PRO are among the very best SSD available now. Corsair and Plextor make some good ones too that you can sometimes get for decent prices. I also like the MUSHKIN (sandforce controllers) for value if you find them cheap. I think right now the 128GB Vector for $99 is a great deal. I have one here unopened. Where you live? I'd overnight it in morning to you and buy another (mine is unopened) if you needed the help. [you pay shipping tongue.gif]



Edited:


Whoa... If I click this link:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820721107


I get a $149.95 price... yet my original price is $79. I wonder if Newegg does something funny to raise the price on a link ???

I have it open on my left monitor in Firefox @ $79 and the link I click that I copied and pasted from my firefox browser into this thread that opens with Chome on my middle monitor and it's $149 ???

Huh ??

What the ????



The $99 OCZ comes up $165 and the Samsung more too...

Anyone else have this happening ???
post #1579 of 3346
Same for me when clicking the link. The product nuber changes too. Newegg is easy enough to search though.
post #1580 of 3346
FWIW, My WHS2011 OS SSD is a "crappy" Kingston V100 64GB biggrin.gif. I think I got it from Staples for $60 AC AR etc. It was an HTPC SSD before that and I think it's been 2 yrs in my server. When I upgraded my HTPC SSDs I reused it in the server.
post #1581 of 3346
Your original idea of a using a separate partition for C: (boot disk) is fine

If I were building a dedicated server I'd spare the cost of an additional SSD and WHS for that matter. I'd probably go with ubuntu server and zfs, freenas, or unraid. Either way I'd boot off of USB and create a spare

As to the choice you seem to have already made regarding WHS, I don't see why you should purchase an SSD instead of using a dedicated partition for your OS drive UNLESS you plan on using rdp. Then it makes tons of sense, but I feel like rdp on a server is used primarily when your server software applications of choice don't offer web control and auto start. Mfusick uses rdp all the time, so to each their own. Just decide how you are going to use it before making an unnecessary expense. It will not improve plex transcodes or sab/bt if your storage disks are still HDDs
post #1582 of 3346
One of the other advantages of having a separate physical drive (HDD or SSD) for the OS is that as data grows or disks get old, they can be upgraded independent of the OS. I've had a home server long enough to see this happening. When I had WHSv1, I just did the separate partition and had a hell of a time migrating off it when I ran out of space. I wouldn't go back to that for the sake of cost in the context of the overall investment in a home server.
post #1583 of 3346
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

One of the other advantages of having a separate physical drive (HDD or SSD) for the OS is that as data grows or disks get old, they can be upgraded independent of the OS. I've had a home server long enough to see this happening. When I had WHSv1, I just did the separate partition and had a hell of a time migrating off it when I ran out of space. I wouldn't go back to that for the sake of cost in the context of the overall investment in a home server.

I'm thinking 3TB disk with 160GB C:/ and the rest as D:/

Interesting that you mention having a hard time migrating off, can you expand any? I don't get what the problem would have been just replacing an aging disk, but I'm interested to hear your take on it
post #1584 of 3346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

FWIW, My WHS2011 OS SSD is a "crappy" Kingston V100 64GB biggrin.gif. I think I got it from Staples for $60 AC AR etc. It was an HTPC SSD before that and I think it's been 2 yrs in my server. When I upgraded my HTPC SSDs I reused it in the server.

My first server SSD was a $44 OCZ Agility 3 (which is considered a pretty crummy SSD) and it worked great too. I only upgraded to the 120GB Vertex3 cause I got it for $49 on Black Friday deal and I wanted the bigger size. I was rebuilding anyways. I love re-using hardware. I always do trickle down just like you. My HTPC SSD is my old desktop toggle Nand MAX IOPS. Buying the good stuff for the main machine lets you re-use the older or crappier stuff in less important areas. I like how you roll.
post #1585 of 3346
I'd take a Plextor PX-128M5Pro or a Corsair CSSD-F128GBGS/RF2 (Refurb Force GS) at that price over the ones listed. I would never use an OCZ as a primary OS drive. They are the only drives I'll advise people to keep away from. The Indilinx controller is a turd and their failure rates are incredibly high.

If this is just a server that you aren't going to be interfacing with it much then the primary OS drive performance doesn't really matter. If you are going to be interfacing with it as a desktop as well then I'd recommend saving up for a better drive like the Samsung 840 Pro or Corsair Neutron GTX.
post #1586 of 3346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I have it open on my left monitor in Firefox @ $79 and the link I click that I copied and pasted from my firefox browser into this thread that opens with Chome on my middle monitor and it's $149 ???

Huh ??

What the ????

Anyone else have this happening ???

I noticed some funny business the other day on Newegg, where I had a PSU selected in cart that showed free shipping and then I checked again later and it said shipping was $9, this happened twice on 2 different PSU's. rolleyes.gif
post #1587 of 3346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

One of the other advantages of having a separate physical drive (HDD or SSD) for the OS is that as data grows or disks get old, they can be upgraded independent of the OS. I've had a home server long enough to see this happening. When I had WHSv1, I just did the separate partition and had a hell of a time migrating off it when I ran out of space. I wouldn't go back to that for the sake of cost in the context of the overall investment in a home server.

This is a great point. I have already upgraded basically everything in my server. (CPU, mobo, Ram, case, psu, HDD's, SSD, OS drives, etc,, etc... ) It was all very easy and painless because of the choices I made up front. Don't under estimate the importance of this, it will happen and become important at some point. Plan now, easy later.
post #1588 of 3346
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

One of the other advantages of having a separate physical drive (HDD or SSD) for the OS is that as data grows or disks get old, they can be upgraded independent of the OS. I've had a home server long enough to see this happening. When I had WHSv1, I just did the separate partition and had a hell of a time migrating off it when I ran out of space. I wouldn't go back to that for the sake of cost in the context of the overall investment in a home server.

I think that your point is that "the data always grows" which is true, however I am backing up to a 1TB external drive now and have about 300GB free on it. I really don't even NEED to use that "2TB partition" for data backup for a while yet. I was just going to reallocate the 1TB external to make a backup drive for my MAME arcade since it took FOREVER to get everything set the way I wanted with all of the different emulators, etc.

At this point I could still just put all of that backup data (less than 600GB) onto one of the media drives and just let it sit there too. I was just trying to be creative with the storage so that I could maximize the usage and justify the 6th 3TB drive that I bought since it wasn't much more than a 500GB drive locally.

So I went to Staples and picked up a Kingston HyperX 3K 120GB SSD for $140 ($130 + about $10 in tax). I am thinking that if I talked myself into it (due to somewhat ethical issues) I could order the same drive from NewEgg for $99 and no tax/no shipping and return that to Staples. Then I have an O/S SSD to work with now, and can save $40. I don't know though. I'll have to think about that one.

Any thoughts on the Kingston HyperX shown here: Kingston HyperX 3K 120GB 2.5" SATA III (6 Gb/s) MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

*** EDIT: Newegg you temptress... Same SSD on sale today for $89...
Edited by nickbuol - 9/13/13 at 5:16am
post #1589 of 3346
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

I think that your point is that "the data always grows" which is true, however I am backing up to a 1TB external drive now and have about 300GB free on it. I really don't even NEED to use that "2TB partition" for data backup for a while yet. I was just going to reallocate the 1TB external to make a backup drive for my MAME arcade since it took FOREVER to get everything set the way I wanted with all of the different emulators, etc.

At this point I could still just put all of that backup data (less than 600GB) onto one of the media drives and just let it sit there too. I was just trying to be creative with the storage so that I could maximize the usage and justify the 6th 3TB drive that I bought since it wasn't much more than a 500GB drive locally.

So I went to Staples and picked up a Kingston HyperX 3K 120GB SSD for $140 ($130 + about $10 in tax). I am thinking that if I talked myself into it (due to somewhat ethical issues) I could order the same drive from NewEgg for $99 and no tax/no shipping and return that to Staples. Then I have an O/S SSD to work with now, and can save $40. I don't know though. I'll have to think about that one.

Any thoughts on the Kingston HyperX shown here: Kingston HyperX 3K 120GB 2.5" SATA III (6 Gb/s) MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

It's an awesome drive. Unfortunately Kingston's SSD Toolbox sucks. And with the SandForce controller you will suffer from some degraded performance over time. You'll probably want to install one of the 3rd party toolboxes and script some manual maintenance on the drive every so often.
post #1590 of 3346
What kind of maintenance options should I be looking for to work with the SSD? Any recommended products?

By the way, I have the core components put in place. The case didn't come with enough standoffs (ATX takes 10, MATX takes 9, the case came with 7) but I tore into an old PC that had an AMD Athlon 2900+ and stole some from it but that slowed me down.

Anyway, the SSD is in as is the blu-ray player. I figure that I will get things installed and configured before adding the six 3TB drives, but it is 12:45am and I am tired. Alarm goes off in 5.25 hours... I will see if I can get things installed tomorrow and tweaked a little bit as well. Lots to do. I might just run some disc tests on the drives just to test them to make sure that they are all OK at the moment. Maybe I will do that on Sunday night as I am traveling early Monday to Los Angeles and then Denver later in the week. That will give it time to run (won't that THAT long) without me wanting to mess around with things.

Oh, here is a photo of the pile of stuff.



The Seagate drive is already out of the external D3 enclosure, that is a gigabit switch in the back on the case, and up front on the carpet is the free Intel t-shirt I got. I figured, why not....
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