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Mfusick's How to build an affordable 30TB Flexraid media server: Information Requested.! - Page 78

post #2311 of 3342
Just to add a point that drive spin-down is basically a deprecated technology. Very few storage controllers even support the feature anymore as well as operating systems. With drives like the WD Reds they go into an standby state where they stay spinning but use virtually no energy and can reach full speed from that state in less than a second. It's something like 0.5W that they use in that state. All of my drives in my media server are Reds and after about 20 minutes of not being accessed all 12 drives read less than 5W. So my point is that with newer technology in the drives themselves there is less and less of a reason to use something like a spin-down.
post #2312 of 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I had a hard drive installed on the mobo port and it would spin down- and it causes a delay in my whole array.

Spin down is for tree huggers and fools. That's my opinion and I am sticking to it. tongue.gif Call me impatient (I am biggrin.gif ) but the cost in electricity is worth not having to wait every time I click on my server pool drive (which is a lot ). Spin for the win !
The delay isn't bad when you are able to manipulate how many drives spin up and the interval times also during staggered spin up.

I put my mac mini to sleep when I'm not using it. When I wake it from sleep the server drives have already woken up. I haven't tried this with flex drive so I don't know how well that works.
post #2313 of 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by techmattr View Post

Just to add a point that drive spin-down is basically a deprecated technology. Very few storage controllers even support the feature anymore as well as operating systems. With drives like the WD Reds they go into an standby state where they stay spinning but use virtually no energy and can reach full speed from that state in less than a second. It's something like 0.5W that they use in that state. All of my drives in my media server are Reds and after about 20 minutes of not being accessed all 12 drives read less than 5W. So my point is that with newer technology in the drives themselves there is less and less of a reason to use something like a spin-down.

Well, I had that argument with itznfb a while back when posting my results with my server of ST3000DM001 and Coolspin 4TB drives (with 1 ssd and 1 WD Blue outside array)

The documentation seems to indicate they don't have this same low power mode based on their published idle power consumptions, but in my real life scenario with the server connected to a kill a watt I didn't register more than 15W difference between the windows hdd setting of (sleep drives after 5min and never). I had waited a long time and the reading stabilized with all the disks spundown. When I changed the setting to "never" I could hear them spin up and the movie-launch delay was gone. I think all my testing was correct, but the numbers didn't follow along with the published idle power figures indicating that those models must also have a standby mode AND they enter it all on their own.
post #2314 of 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Well, I had that argument with itznfb a while back when posting my results with my server of ST3000DM001 and Coolspin 4TB drives (with 1 ssd and 1 WD Blue outside array)

The documentation seems to indicate they don't have this same low power mode based on their published idle power consumptions, but in my real life scenario with the server connected to a kill a watt I didn't register more than 15W difference between the windows hdd setting of (sleep drives after 5min and never). I had waited a long time and the reading stabilized with all the disks spundown. When I changed the setting to "never" I could hear them spin up and the movie-launch delay was gone. I think all my testing was correct, but the numbers didn't follow along with the published idle power figures indicating that those models must also have a standby mode AND they enter it all on their own.

Yeah as far as I know there is no straight forward way of controlling WD's intellipower states. It's all done through the controller firmware on the drive itself. I've never done any testing with the OS configuration of sleep state so I can't really comment on that but from what I see in day-to-day usage the Red's seem to come pretty close to their datasheets running full speed and when sleeping. I'm honestly not sure when it should be in the "Idle" state though. It's pretty easy to tell when they are running full speed and when they are sleeping though. I have some HGST CoolSpin and Seagate NAS drives and they seem to do a similar sleep state but it's a little more difficult to calculate their usage when it's only 1 or 2 drives and they are connected to the motherboard. So I'm not really sure what they are pulling when they sleep.

edit:
Also to add... I've seen some claim over on STH that implementing spin-downs on the storage controller actually interferes with the power management on the drive itself and that is one of the reasons LSI has removed power management from their controllers. I've never read anything official on that topic but it makes sense.
post #2315 of 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by techmattr View Post

Yeah as far as I know there is no straight forward way of controlling WD's intellipower states. It's all done through the controller firmware on the drive itself. I've never done any testing with the OS configuration of sleep state so I can't really comment on that but from what I see in day-to-day usage the Red's seem to come pretty close to their datasheets running full speed and when sleeping. I'm honestly not sure when it should be in the "Idle" state though. It's pretty easy to tell when they are running full speed and when they are sleeping though

That was precisely my point back in whatever thread we were hashing that out in smile.gif It wasn't really that I was disagreeing with published idle power figures, but instead pointing out that in real life my drives were using less power than published idle figures due to what I assumed was a sleep state. I don't really know when they are idle vs sleep, but I know that after a few minutes they weren't pulling anywhere near published idle power figures for the number of HDDs I had in use

Interesting point about forced controller sleep, hdparm, etc interfering with OEM controller sleep. If you were intent on controlling it, then ideally you would want to know that the OEM controller isn't messing with your intentions. I actually have a red 3TB now smile.gif Picked up a good deal at TD albeit a few rebates required. I'd like to use reds or NAS drives exclusively, but they are usually pricier and my setup seems to cool desktop drives just fine
post #2316 of 3342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

That was precisely my point back in whatever thread we were hashing that out in smile.gif It wasn't really that I was disagreeing with published idle power figures, but instead pointing out that in real life my drives were using less power than published idle figures due to what I assumed was a sleep state. I don't really know when they are idle vs sleep, but I know that after a few minutes they weren't pulling anywhere near published idle power figures for the number of HDDs I had in use

Interesting point about forced controller sleep, hdparm, etc interfering with OEM controller sleep. If you were intent on controlling it, then ideally you would want to know that the OEM controller isn't messing with your intentions. I actually have a red 3TB now smile.gif Picked up a good deal at TD albeit a few rebates required. I'd like to use reds or NAS drives exclusively, but they are usually pricier and my setup seems to cool desktop drives just fine

So cliff notes are basically there isn't much difference between hard drives (that you tested) to make it significant or meaningful. ?
post #2317 of 3342
Thread Starter 
OK... update on the babies biggrin.gif

Wife and I found out (had ultrasound on 26th) the sex of our twins. We had the doctor put the results into a sealed envelope and my wife threw a gender reveal party to reveal the sexes. My job was to make balloon boxes to hold helium filled balloons and the idea was we would have one person open the envelope and fill inside the boxes with either Pink or Blue balloons (pink = girl, blue = boy) and my wife and I would open these boxes live in front of the immediate family. Twice. One for baby A and one for baby B.


I spent all day Friday making the balloon boxes in the garage (heated) and I can still smell the fumes from painting them in the enclosed space (even with my wearing a mask)









Wife decorated the boxes with A and B for each baby....








Then she made gender reveal decorative food and decorations.

*






Needless to say wife and I were pretty excited biggrin.gif


My fear was I would get stuck with two girls and combined with my wife and our female dog I would be outnumbered 4:1 eek.gif Plus something was telling me that twin daughters might be challenging in adolescence. But at the same time, I always knew that daughters love their dad, and boys love their mom - so the idea of a daughter was appealing to me.

So the results ???





Best of both worlds biggrin.gif

We actually opened the boxes inside first.. then again outside for pictures.

My wife after finding out the first was a boy (and really wanting a girl) lol.


Edited by Mfusick - 12/30/13 at 6:00pm
post #2318 of 3342
Congrats!!! Let the long sleepless nights commence! eek.giftongue.gif
I've been reading some of these threads and I sure wish I was as computer savvy as you guys. Unfortunately when I can afford it I think I'll be letting Assassin build me something that I can just hook up and go. So I hope when that day comes you guys will be nice to me and help the clueless.
post #2319 of 3342
Hey Mike first of all congrats on the twins gender news, it just doesn't get any better than that, man you hit it out the park biggrin.gif done, and done!

The other thing you can slap a couple 15 & 18" drivers on those boxes eek.gif and you have some serious diy subs lol.


Dan
post #2320 of 3342
Congrats man. I took the steps to make sure we were done at one :-) I prefer the double team defense...maybe man to man..... but NEVER zone....lol.

Bill
post #2321 of 3342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Hey Mike first of all congrats on the twins gender news, it just doesn't get any better than that, man you hit it out the park biggrin.gif done, and done!

The other thing you can slap a couple 15 & 18" drivers on those boxes eek.gif and you have some serious diy subs lol.


Dan

I actually just built a SUB box out of MDF... wink.gif For these balloon boxes I only used 1/8" Masonite and Pine wood. I needed to be able to carry it wink.gif I could not imagine how heavy they would be with 3/4" MDF. They were 4 feet tall and 4 feet long eek.gif

The subwoofer box I made it 24" deep by 24" wide by 42" tall. That is about 14 cubic feet before the port and speaker. biggrin.gif

The port will be 21.75" x 4" (24" wide minus 3/4" each side+ 3/4" brace down center) and run the full width and depth almost. It will be about 38" long - (24" deep minus 4" = 20" + go down about another 18" to get me to about 38" or whatever exact I need for a 20hz tune)

I figured the port would take up 38"x22.5"x4" [3.16666' x 1.875' x .3333' ] or 1.979 cubic feet.
Minus the woofer puts me around 12 cubic feet I'm guessing- I'll look closer at it when I get to the port length to get it exact.

I plan to drop the two 15" in this weekend actually. I already have dual 12" and they are more than wifey likes until I get my dedicated theater built. Then I will probably go at least quad 15" to go with my DIY speakers. Planning a 12" Woofer and SEOS DNA360 tweeter build pretty soon.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html

Something like those ^

I had a thread a while back in the DIY sound forum where the guys were kind enough to teach my how to use port tuning software and design a box and tune it. Now I am hooked. I'd already be knee deep into it if it was not for the twins derailing my home theater plans biggrin.gif We actually had a remodel planned soon but that project is now on hold.

Later in 2014 hopefully I can find a way to resume. I can't wait.
post #2322 of 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I actually just built a SUB box out of MDF... wink.gif For these balloon boxes I only used 1/8" Masonite and Pine wood. I needed to be able to carry it wink.gif I could not imagine how heavy they would be with 3/4" MDF. They were 4 feet tall and 4 feet long eek.gif

The subwoofer box I made it 24" deep by 24" wide by 42" tall. That is about 14 cubic feet before the port and speaker. biggrin.gif

The port will be 21.75" x 4" (24" wide minus 3/4" each side+ 3/4" brace down center) and run the full width and depth almost. It will be about 38" long - (24" deep minus 4" = 20" + go down about another 18" to get me to about 38" or whatever exact I need for a 20hz tune)

I figured the port would take up 38"x22.5"x4" [3.16666' x 1.875' x .3333' ] or 1.979 cubic feet.
Minus the woofer puts me around 12 cubic feet I'm guessing- I'll look closer at it when I get to the port length to get it exact.

I plan to drop the two 15" in this weekend actually. I already have dual 12" and they are more than wifey likes until I get my dedicated theater built. Then I will probably go at least quad 15" to go with my DIY speakers. Planning a 12" Woofer and SEOS DNA360 tweeter build pretty soon.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html

Something like those ^

I had a thread a while back in the DIY sound forum where the guys were kind enough to teach my how to use port tuning software and design a box and tune it. Now I am hooked. I'd already be knee deep into it if it was not for the twins derailing my home theater plans biggrin.gif We actually had a remodel planned soon but that project is now on hold.

Later in 2014 hopefully I can find a way to resume. I can't wait.


Woe I was being fictitious eek.gif, but hey your a talent dude if you got the space and the tools," if you build it the lows will come".

Sweet kits btw.

Dan
post #2323 of 3342
Congratulations Mike!!!! biggrin.gif

My first thought when looking at the picture was, "Why'd they open both, it's supposed to be one?" Then I remembered twins, and congrats smile.gif Best of both worlds right off the bat
post #2324 of 3342
Congrats Mike, you'll have a blast. I have one of each too (not twins though) and they NEVER fight. wink.gif
post #2325 of 3342
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys ! Wife and I are really excited. biggrin.gif Does not support my home theater hobby and aspirations but I'll figure that out after they are born healthy and strong and I get some time (and money).

I am off today. Headed to go pick out paint for the babies room (formerly my office with my workstation and server mad.gif ) so we can paint the room tomorrow.
post #2326 of 3342
Congrats!! Very good news for you and the Mrs. All the best.
post #2327 of 3342
Congrats.

I expect a dramatic reduction in your free time in 2014 and beyond (in a good way of course).
post #2328 of 3342
anyone think its worth $100 to slap an SSD drive in a server for OS ?
post #2329 of 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcain View Post

anyone think its worth $100 to slap an SSD drive in a server for OS ?

Depends. If you have an old hard drive lying around collecting dust like I do then I prefer that as its free and I can use that $100 to buy another 3tb drive. When I hit play on any of my htpcs the movie starts within a second and a ssd is going to offer me absolutely zero improvement over my current setup (I am using a leftover 2.5" drive from when I upgraded my laptop to a ssd fwiw)

But if you are buying a new os drive regardless then I would go with an ssd. Or perhaps if you had a server/htpc hybrid machine where you were doing a lot more than just "serving".
post #2330 of 3342
Thread Starter 
Thanks! We are baby sitting my new nephew tonight (2 months) in practice so my bro and his wife can go out to dinner together.

My nephew Zachary is pretty easy (so far) and wife keeps commenting how easy it is and I'm trying caution her it won't be that easy. Lol.
post #2331 of 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Depends. If you have an old hard drive lying around collecting dust like I do then I prefer that as its free and I can use that $100 to buy another 3tb drive. When I hit play on any of my htpcs the movie starts within a second and a ssd is going to offer me absolutely zero improvement over my current setup (I am using a leftover 2.5" drive from when I upgraded my laptop to a ssd fwiw)

But if you are buying a new os drive regardless then I would go with an ssd. Or perhaps if you had a server/htpc hybrid machine where you were doing a lot more than just "serving".

currently using a 7200 320gb hdd. just seems a little sluggish at times. like boot up. 12 cores of 2.4ghz and 32gb of ram should boot a wee bit quicker. (shut up mfusick, i know i said i didnt care about server boot time, a week ago). loading windows is so F`n painful, even from usb.
post #2332 of 3342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcain View Post

anyone think its worth $100 to slap an SSD drive in a server for OS ?

It dramatically improves RDP and Remote Desktop. I do this often and appreciate it. It also of coarse speeds up installs and program starts and system boot up too. I seem to restart my MB server often (I run developer build) and that's speedier on a SSD. I never tried it on a HDD but it just seems like it would be slower... Lol.

Assassin had good (different advice) so I guess it boils down to how you use your server. SSD does make basically the same improvements you see or expect on a desktop but if you don't use your server much you could probably live without it.
post #2333 of 3342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcain View Post

currently using a 7200 320gb hdd. just seems a little sluggish at times. like boot up. 12 cores of 2.4ghz and 32gb of ram should boot a wee bit quicker. (shut up mfusick, i know i said i didnt care about server boot time, a week ago). loading windows is so F`n painful, even from usb.

You sound like me so in that case you'd probably like an SSD biggrin.gif
post #2334 of 3342
trying to reload win7 fresh from usb and my lord... i dont remember it taking this long...
post #2335 of 3342
Having used rdp for years and most recently team viewer for the past few months team viewer is much better. Not sure an ssd makes much difference there either (possibly a second or two faster access).
post #2336 of 3342
i much prefer Teamviewer. I've been using it for a couple years. much better than rdp, splashtop, splashtop2 etc.
post #2337 of 3342
Thread Starter 
Teamviewer is pretty slick. But RDP just works.

Slash top is much better from a tablet though...

Pick your poison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcain View Post

trying to reload win7 fresh from usb and my lord... i dont remember it taking this long...

Be glad it's not WHS2011.... Windows 7 is pretty quick from USB actually. WHS2011 from disc is about 4 times a long.
post #2338 of 3342
Thread Starter 
I'm looking for a good socket 1155 CPU deal for my server. Anyone know any good deals ?

I might wait and upgrade my desktop when second generation LGA 1150 hits and reuse that. Other option would be use my 2600k from my office PC and just swap CPUs

What do you guys think about swapping just the CPU ? I have an Asus z68 deluxe mobo in my office PC with a 2600k. I have an extreme 3 Asrock z77 with a g860 in my server.

Any issues with swapping them ?

From a software standpoint if I have Z68 + 2600k on Windows 7 PRO (registered OEM) and I have WHS2011 on my Z77 Extreme3 + G860 CPU (also registered) would I have any driver issues or windows registration issues if I swapped just the CPU ?

G860 and 2600K are both the same class CPU right ? (sandybridge) So theoretically I can do this without much added trouble other than removing the CPU fan and swapping CPU right ?

It seems easy, almost too easy to be true. Anyone done something like this ? Anything I am missing ?
post #2339 of 3342
any physicallity change like serial numbers, etc, usually pisses windows off.
post #2340 of 3342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcain View Post

any physicallity change like serial numbers, etc, usually pisses windows off.

Does this include just the CPU even if the MOBO stays the same ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcain View Post

man, i rebuilt my flexraid all fine and dandy, went to hit start pool and got the usermode prompt, ran it, and hit start again, same thing, over, and over, and over... wtf?

If you get this error, it means you chose not to start the FlexRAID service after install. Navigate to \ext and run the UserMode.cmd file.
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