Planning to rebuild my 20TB WHS Flexraid server: Information requested. - Page 6

My thought on hard drives having owned 50 of them is they are all basically the same.

I have currently: Samsung, Hitachi, WD, and Seagate.

When I bought each, there was a current reason.

But in hind sight they are all the same.

I can't hear a difference between a green and a Seagate.

People who say "heat" are just idiots. These things don't get any hotter.

The "heat and noise " issue gets beat to death around here with green drive propagandizers but in a server environment it's a non issue. And good case with good cooling and acoustic properties will take a normal drive without issue.

Perhaps if I had a mini ITX build I'd consider that. But in my case it's not a big deal.

Capacity to price is main concern. Reliability and performance also matter. I'd say the few dollars in electricity a year is last on my list.

It's quite trendy around here to say the buzz words "heat and noise" but owning 30 hard drives from various mfg's it's more just "heat and noise" spewing from people's mouths than it is from actual hard drives. I've never had a problem with "heat and noise". I think only in a very small build or perhaps a dedicated HTPC in say a bedroom is that going to be a factor.


In a tower desktop or server it's just a non issue.

It's great this is a HTPC forum but I think too often people assume every build is an ITX build in the worlds smallest case and going to be on display. The recommendations around here seem to assume that's the only HTPC that exists. That's a pet peeve of mine around here.

Green drives are good only in a mini dedicated HTPC IMO. It makes sense. But only if its same or cheaper priced as a RED or normal drive or that the Green actually does save significant energy/heat/noise.

But I think there's a general perception that's wrong: People assume green is cheaper and saves significant heat and noise and energy. That's not really true. Green drives are old now. A modern model that's not designated as green offers better performance, warranty, reliability, and price while being on par or better on energy too.

RED now sells for basically same as Green right now. Longer warranty, better speeds and lower energy.
Seagate offers huge benefit in price, also a boost in speed. But is only on par with energy and warranty/reliability.

There's nothing wrong with a green drive but I think they are a bit overrated. 12 months ago it was clear best choice but today that choice is much tougher.
Most if the people recommending them today are still living in 2011.

Where is a good place to learn more about this ?

One more question on this too.

I thought Somone said I can't virtualize with the first option so is be better flashing the IBM.

Can someone clarify that for me?

And,

Does Newegg not carry the super micro ??

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007607%2050001655&IsNodeId=1&name=SuperMicro

I have 20% off coupon code for SATA cards I can use but I can't find the specific model renethx listed.

Any have advice and link ?

Where a good place to pick one if these up ?
Edited by Mfusick - 11/22/12 at 4:41am

The IBM requires me to buy an additional full size pci slot adapter ?

And what cables do I need to connect 8 SATA HDDs?

Where should I buy ?

I see a few IBM on eBay but they cheap ones are not full size slots. My server is in a full ATX tower so I think I need a full slot mount.

Right.

I have a full tower ATX build. I need a full size backplate.

Most seem to be the mini variety and the ones with the ATX full size backplate are 20-35$ more which seems crazy.

Can I put on a backplate from a spare wifi card or something I have ? They are all the same basically.. right ???

Awesome post !!!

Clarity is extreme, your wisdom is obvious- and your effort to post is greatly appreciated.

I had these exact questions and while I would have found the answer in a round about way- you make it so clear and easy to understand.

Thank you.

I think I am going to go straight to drives. I don't have a server case. I plan to use my COSMOS II desktop case for my server.

I was looking at something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115064


If I am right - I would put one end in the SATA CARD and the other four into four HDD's. Right ?

Just double checking.

Awesome !!!

I edited my post and came back to see this one. Thanks for this.

I was looking at monoprice:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=SFF-8087

But it looks like your ebay link just makes sense.

The new egg I was asking about was $25.

That's what I was seeing. It seems like a lot to spend $20 more for the full slot version over the identical with half slot backplate.

When you say flash to IT without ROM what are you referring to ? Flashing the IBM ? I will have a dedicated SSD for my OS drive- connected to the motherboard SATA3 port.

It's pretty easy to set up flexraid.

Benefit over RAID hardware is you can use one parity drive (or two if needed) for many HDDS

So you can convert over to flexraid and gain lots of storage.

The issue is you can't break up your RAID array without losing your data.

So you could copy over each raid array or drive one at a time if you had enough storage. Then break up the Array after and add it back in as DRU drives (data drives) for more storage.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1440779/breaking-up-flexraid-array-anything-need-to-do-to-remove-a-hdd-from-a-flexraid-server/0_40

I am looking to take apart my current server and reinstall the HDDs in my new motherboard and new server.

Take a look and confirm ?

From your link:
"In terms of cost, using a green hard drive compared to a normal one makes very little difference. Assuming your drive spends 4 hours reading and writing and 20 hours idle per day, switching from the WD Black to Green saves you only 45 kilowatt-hours per year. The national average cost of a kilowatt-hour is 11.93 cents, netting you a whopping $5.38 per year for your sacrifice of 1800 RPM. For comparison, changing one 60-watt lightbulb used 4 hours a day to a 7-watt fluorescent one saves you more, about $9.23 per year."


Ever done the math on a 3TB Seagate at the lower/better energy profile than BLACK WD (which is the worst) and a lower electric rate (like mine)

It's even more silly...

it would probably be 15 kWh's saved- at .07 electric rate (mine is .065) - for a whopping $1

I am sure the mileage varies here- with different electric rates and different energy profiles of various drives.

But what I do know is WD BLACK is the worst - and the electric rate is lower today and in the past 12 months in general thanks to a crash in Natural Gas last year.

So if you take a better performing drive than a WD BLACK and use a lower electric rate (your own) I am sure the savings is between the two. ($1 to $5 per year)

It's such an insignificant factor IMO considering the costs of everything else is so much greater.

The "heat" issue might be different but I think that is BS too. It's more a buzzword than a reality, Trendy to say for sure. Not realistic. In a HTPC it matters perhaps if your cramming into the worlds smallest case without fans.

But- In a full desktop build or server build with proper fans, cooling, space and design- "heat" from HDD's is a non issue. My server is in a climate controlled environment that never gets warmer than 75 degrees, and never colder than 55. That's just how my house is.

Once you throw out the mini builds, or the bedroom builds, and accept the fact that a desktop or server is not going to be seen or heard because of where your putting it- I think "Heat and NOISE" becomes a secondary issue. Secondary to cost per GB, Secondary to performance, and most importantly secondary in reliability.

I think anyone would exchange the heat and noise profile of a GREEN drive as well as the energy profile for a real boost in reliability. So those factors can't be that important in full size builds.

The major issue is reliability can not be predicted with any reasonably accuracy so it usually just boils all down to "personal feelings" and those are so subjective we can argue into infinity.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844

3tb FOR $89 BACK UP

I don't care about the array.

I am going to take apart my server and install the drives in a new server- based on new motherboard- and new Sata Card in a new case.

I just want the drives and the data - and install them on the new flexraid server I build.

I am going to be removing all my 1TB and 750GB drives and not re-installing them. They are too old and small for me.

I will copy the data over from them- to the new 3TB drives. I just bought 4 more 3TB drives. I already owned 4 and about 4 more 2TB drives.

Yup. Yup.

I have already bought 3 of those from Costco as external and cracked them open. This was months back at $120-$130 each. It was good deal then.

I saw it pop up on Amazon for the external and bought another for $89 on Monday.

Then on Wednesday Newegg was doing the $89 internals - SO I bought 3 of them. 3 unit limit.

I already have a few 2TB WD greens, a couple 3TB WD greens, A Hitachi 2TB, etc... in my server now. I have been using one of those Seagates at my Parity drive for about 6 months.

I used a couple older drives when I build my server because I already had them. A 750GB samsung and a couple 1TB seagates and Samsungs. I just don't want to sacrifice the SATA PORTS in my server for such small drives anymore and those drives are pretty old now. I feel more secure moving the data onto a 3TB and keeping the rest of the sata ports free. I can probable get 50% of my money back if I sell them off on ebay. They still work great. I have had luck doing this.

My new server will be:


6 - 3TB Seagates (I think I am going to leave the external as it is but I also have a 3TB WD green External USB3.0. Not sure)
2 - 3TB WD GREEN
2 - 2TB WD GREEN
1 - 2TB Hitachi 7200rpm/Sata3/6g

25TB or so...

I bought a Supermicro AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 8-port SAS/SATA 6.0Gb/s PCI Express 2.0 x8 card and I already own a SATA3 2 port Highpoint PCI-X card. My Z77 Asrock Extreme4 motherboard has 8 SATA ports, I will only use one of the SATA3 for the SSD and OS drive.

So I have 8+8+2=18 Sata ports minus the OS drive = 17 SATA ports. I should be good for a bit if I don't use my 4 smaller drives and just copy over the info. My case has two HOT SWAP bays- so that should be easy. I'll just reformat when done and sell them off.

Thanks !

I think I am going to stick with flexraid for now- but I'd like to know what's next. I seem to get deeper and deeper the more I learn.