Best Sub to go with the Pioneer SP-PK52FS 5.0 system for ~400

Hi everyone, I have been scouring the subwoofer forum now that I have ordered the Pioneer SP-PK52FS minus the subwoofer after hearing pio's subs are sub par. I spent about 500 on the 5.0 setup including speaker wire.
I know some people get bothered by others reasking which sub is the best for such and such a price, but with a million different threads and so suggestions I am having trouble sorting through it.
I will be connecting everything to my Yamaha Adventage RX-A710 AVR.
In terms of a subwoofer I am not really wanting to spend more than ~400 (aka no more on the subwoofer than what the whole 5.0 setup costs).
My room is 18x15 with 9ft high ceilings and a 5 x 8 nook in the back. listening position is about 7-8 ft from speakers.
I also have a small two person couch and a chair off to the sides of my center couch listening position for when friends are over. the back wall behind the couch has a 3 foot counter coming out and cabinets all along the wall (perfect for placing my surrounds on top of.
My HT system is used for Music Movies and Games. Music and Movies being the two main uses and being about equal in use. My music preferences are, well, I listen to most everything. Rock, Rap, Metal, Electronic music (EDM), etc. AC/DC is my favorite band and I also listen to a lot of EDM music and bass heavy stuff.
In terms of a subwoofer Im looking for one that will blend in with the pioneers well and will, whats the word...not sound like a sub? I essentially want a nice solid quality bass that isnt boomy or muddy causing me to look over at the subwoofer if that makes sense. That to me is more important I would say than the ability to shake the foundation of the house.
Dimensions of the subwoofer are not really an issue.

So far I have had these two suggested to me on another forum but I am not really making any head way there with the folks

Look at Energy S10.3

HSU STF-2

I am also open to buying used subwoofers off of audiogon, CL, or ebay seeing as there is a potential to get a subwoofer worth more than 400 with a sound much better than a brand new 400 dollar subwoofer would cost.
But either way new or used it fine with me.
I would be open to hearing suggestions for subs between 5-600 bucks only if they will make a HUGE difference but ideally I would like to stay within the 400 or less range.
Thanks!

Okay I will look into the Klipsch RW-12. It looks like it is a quality sub for the price. In terms of budget I am flexible. 300-400 is fine.

I agree, it doesn't make sense to spend more than I paid for the 5.0 system. Unless subs that cost less than the pioneer system are just that bad which i doubt. And unless I come across a bunch of money soon I don't plan on upgrading from the pioneers...unless I dislike them of course.

The STF-2 however is only 350...however I was just thinking since it doesn't appear to be available anywhere but from HSU I am assuming tax and shipping will put it at 400 bucks

I suppose also another question would be assuming the STF-2 is better than the RW-12, is that performance increase enough to make it worth spending an extra 100 dollars?
Edited by sealteamz6 - 11/7/12 at 11:56pm

Also what about the PA-150? I saw something on another thread about those

Thank you for the advice.

I don't mind a subwoofer showing some limits I guess compared to my last sub which showed its limits very easily I just dont want something that shows its limits too easily. My last sub was a mirage sealed design with two 8 inch drivers setup just like that Epik. In terms of the bass dispersion through the room it changed greatly and was very noticeable depending on where one was so I am not sure I like that design style. However I have not head the Epik so I cannot judge it. From what I know sealed subs tend to be better for rock type music and ported better for bass heavy music. Granted that could be because ported tends to seem to make things shake a bit more or may be more boomy giving the impression of a louder bass sound.

Out of curiosity will bass travel further with a ported sub than with a sealed? what I am asking is will people that are in another part of the house be able to feel/hear a ported sub more than a sealed?

I am hesitant on buying to subwoofers probably for more of a social reason because two seems like overkill, especially with subs that big. would the bass response throughout the room be that much better with two RW-12Ds versus say the STF2 or the Outlaw LFM-Plus or an SVS or the VTF1? I know something like the outlaw will go lower in terms of Hz, Does that difference from 25 to 16 make the experience that much more enjoyable? Also how is the Epik in terms of bass response throughout the room. Most of the time I will be in front of the tv so the side couches arent a HUGE importance if the difference in bass response throughout the room doesnt change a big amount with one sub compared to two

Also my AVR on has one subwoofer RCA connection...unless there is another way to connect two subs.
Edited by sealteamz6 - 11/8/12 at 2:21pm

Eventually i will be moving the computer to the office once I get my networking fully setup

i am standing where the door is

Thank you

1. Would a single RW 12D create a lot of spots in my room where bass dispersion is is weaker or stronger than others?
2. Would the difference between one RW12D and two be very noticeable in your opinion? The bass dispersion with the mirage sub was very noticable in my old bed room at my parents house which was like 10x11. In this room it seemed to be less noticable. I live in a rambler with my gf and her parents. A section was built onto the house before they moved in and after they moved in their grandpa lived in this end. I am slightly worried the bass might travel to their bedroom but their bedroom is like 50-75 feet from the room where the HT will be. I have heard sealed bass stays within rooms better. I need to do some tests to see if i can hear my logitech 2.1 speakers in their bedroom seeing as the bass actually gets quite loud.
3. If i decided to go with one sub as opposed to two RW12Ds what would you recommend in the 300-600 dollar price range. and also for around the 400 price range?
Edited by sealteamz6 - 11/8/12 at 3:20pm

Would you say sealed subs keep the bass inside a room better than ported? I honestly do not know how loud two RW12Ds would be and how far the bass would travel at louder volumes.

Also I was doing some reading on a couple other threads such as your thread with the sub roundup for different subs at different price points. You guys talked a lot about the EQ and such with the Epik legend and there were things said about it that made me think that its not that great???

With the Epik Legend I will have spotting in my room and the epik legend will help with that a bit. However, Archaea, from your experience, how bad will the spotting be from one epik legend and how much of a difference in bass dispersion will the difference between an epik legend and two rw-12ds make? I guess what I am trying to get at is how much better dispersion will i get from two rw12ds versus one epik legend, Im asking this because it might not be worth it for me to get 2 subs versus the one if the difference is small.

Btw the epik legend will cost me 580 including shipping.
Edited by sealteamz6 - 11/8/12 at 5:02pm

Wow you have an extremely nice looking and clean setup. I would love to have one that nice and clean. Maybe I just need to clean a bit...my gf tends to cause my cleaning to revert back to disorganization haha.

I have no idea how those front heights work, looks like an interesting concept though.

Thank you though, very informative.

I know this is very hard to describe. but how far does the bass from those two subwoofers carry?



Okay so I am standing where the black couch is in the picture i took above. From the couch to the windowed door is 35 feet. If you look to the left that is our bedroom. where the pictures are on the back wall, through that wall is my gfs parents walk in closet then their bedroom. If you go through the windowed door turn left and go about 10 feet you reach the door of their bedroom and about another 10 feet to their bed. I brought up this point because sometimes we stay up late when they go to bed and I dont wanna wake them up. I need to bring my logitech speakers and do some tests to see what I can hear though.

Oh hahahaha. well guess at night I will have to turn my system down

If you look down the hall towards the glass door, right before you enter into the open library part on the right is an office. I had my logitech setup in there at one point for some testing blasting the sound super high as well as the bass and it was noticable in their bedroom but not to bad considering how high i had it. Im hoping maybe the bass wouldnt travel too far. But im probably being overly optimistic considering how much rumble these big HT subs have haha

How bad was your bass spotting in terms of spots being to high or low with bass response?

what are the dimensions of your room?

I live in the Seattle area

Oh okay based on my room size would you say I might have as many low high spots as you? since mine isnt connected to a hall

So i used my logitech 2.1 speaker system z-2300 that has a ported sub with an 8 inch driver.

There are and were dispersion issues with the bass in my room. The sub was placed to the right of my tv close to the wall. the driver is in the front and the port is on the left.

My report: the dispersion issues weren't as bad as I thought. If you were directly to the left or right of the sub distance not counting the bass was very loud compared to the center seating position. However, people will not be sitting to the left or right of the subwoofer. Except me at my computer however for movies i move to the center. with music i tend to stay over here. But i plan on moving my computer to my office once I get my network setup so i can stream stuff to my entertainment center. I did the test by moving in a half circle if that makes sense. Started on one side of the sub and moved in a circular manner from one seating position to the next. The bass in the middle was good, It was the least strong in terms of that air moving feeling around your ears but the bass itself sounded fine. The side chairs had a bit stronger bass than the center but since they are not directly on the sides of the sub it wasn't too bad. I could potentially remedy this by moving the seating positions back a slight amount. bass was somewhat louder in the nook but thats where the sink and fridges are and i dont care about sound there.

Overall I would say the dispersion issues didnt effect the seating positions too terribly much. Sides could have been better. I assume with the epik subs the dispersion issues of one sub are less noticeable. but I wonder if the spots where there are dispersion issues would be in a different location because the subwoofer design is different.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1425179/the-subwoofer-recommendation-by-pricepoint-thread

Because the BICs only go to like 30 Hz if im not mistaken

I am either gonna go with two RW-12Ds or one Legend...Im pretty on the fence though.

mrgrotel, what is your opinion of the SQ of the two RW-12D's you own. The subwoofer shootout thing mentions the rw being somewhat boomy and muddy at times. I will be doing a lot of HT but I want something that does great with music too. Fidelity is also important to me haha.