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Black Friday @ BEST BUY, buyer beware NEW RETURN POLICIES could burn you !!!!! - Page 2

post #31 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

Yeah I don't mind that stuff, I just wanna know how I get a tv purchase to fall under the extended holiday return policy. There's really no better electronics store here

Really,, thats the best store in town:rolleyes:
90 days is 90 days, pull out the calendar and count the days, 1,2,3 .....
post #32 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

The idea that BB might deliberately stick someone with a defective product per joehonest's last post indicates a lack of understanding of how retail works in the real world. Nobody at any level in any store is going to bother deliberately seeking out a defective product to stick somebody with, they're too busy just doing their jobs. This is right up there with the idea that store personnel run around deliberately changing settings on tvs to push sales of one over another for sheer fantasy.

Maybe its to push and sell the very profitable extended warranty plan. If you believe BBY doesn't have like new defective units, your crazy. Many returns are due to just that,, but now you can't return it. Now your stuck with it, unless you bring a team of high priced lawyers with you... There are many new defective units shipped to retailers from suppliers, it happens all the time.... AVS is full of these stories....
Edited by joehonest - 11/18/12 at 5:34pm
post #33 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

The idea that BB might deliberately stick someone with a defective product per joehonest's last post indicates a lack of understanding of how retail works in the real world.

I'm going to agree with you there. That theory is way off in lalaland.

The debate here is between two viewpoints:

1) BBY is losing money to return fraud. and wants to reduce it.
2) Customers want consistent and predictable return policies.

These two viewpoints are not in contradiction. However, BBY's implementation creates a contradiction. BBY does not anywhere explicitly spell out the new rules. In fact, it seems that the rules themselves are "hidden" in some sort of computer algorithm that The Retail Equation applies on a per customer basis after the point of purchase.

BBY could eliminate all the uncertainty that their new policy creates by one simple change - instead of denying ALL returns for a 90 day period, they could just deny all returns of any purchases made during that 90 day period. That would eliminate the risk of buying multiple items, returning a couple and then finding out that you can't return any more of them.

Quote:
Funny how those most opposed to some control on return abuse are the first to complain about the high prices caused by that abuse.
Putting contradictory words in other people's mouths is a classic argumentative fallacy. Don't do that.
No customer in the history of the world has welcomed higher prices.
Quote:
Anybody getting burned has probably been burning retailers for quite some time.
That's easy to believe when one thinks the world is divided into good guys and bad guys and bad things only happen to bad guys. In my experience, the people who think like that have had a sheltered life.
Edited by JerryW - 11/18/12 at 8:12pm
post #34 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryW View Post

1) Defective merchandise has only been a tangential issue in my arguments as for why BBY's policy change is poorly thought out. Certainly no word of it in the post you quoted. Seems like you are grasping at straws.
2) Now that you have brought it up, BBY's website groups returns and exchanges together and says, "Based on return/exchange patterns, some customers will be warned that subsequent returns and exchanges will not be eligible for returns or exchanges for 90 days." Although poorly worded, I think it is reasonable to parse that warning to mean that if you return too many items they will refuse to exchange a defective item and vice versa.

1) Are you dismissing the potential that BBY is trying to target abusers of the return/exchange policy, and not necessarily those who have been burdened with defective merchandise or those who upgraded from an existing purchase? There are no straws to grasp here. You either buy, with the intent to use or gift, or buy for other reasons which have lead BBY to introduce more stringent return policies at a higher cost to all. The assumption is that the statisticians tasked to determine the notice thresholds have established them based on the number and type of return, and have not just lumped them into one bucket. Isn't that why they ask you the reason you're returning something at the customer service desk? So they can check off the appropriate box that gets recorded in your purchase/return history?

2) So then, would you say you're agreeing that notice issuance (and subsequent refusal of return/exchange) depends on the number and type of returns your purchase pattern evidences?


Glad you understand it now. Enjoy your holiday shopping!
post #35 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

Really,, thats the best store in town:rolleyes:
90 days is 90 days, pull out the calendar and count the days, 1,2,3 .....

Yes,, :really:

Best selections here, best return policy, great financing, and as cheap as amazon for TV's. Ive already returned 2 tvs in the past 3 months, and it was no questions asked easy peasy. I've finally decided to get plasma, the one I want is the cheapest it has ever been, and im trying to figure out if it automatically qualifies for the extended holiday return or if there is some magic 'this is a gift' button. Everytime you quote my post i get a notification and i come here thinking that my question was addressed, but it's just been you rambling about your dislike of bb both times. Now I know better. They aren't forcing you to buy from there, its just a store, who cares. Ill call tomorrow and ask them myself.
post #36 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

Yes,, :really:
Best selections here, best return policy, great financing, and as cheap as amazon for TV's. Ive already returned 2 tvs in the past 3 months, and it was no questions asked easy peasy. I've finally decided to get plasma, the one I want is the cheapest it has ever been, and im trying to figure out if it automatically qualifies for the extended holiday return or if there is some magic 'this is a gift' button. Everytime you quote my post i get a notification and i come here thinking that my question was addressed, but it's just been you rambling about your dislike of bb both times. Now I know better. They aren't forcing you to buy from there, its just a store, who cares. Ill call tomorrow and ask them myself.
They won't know if your on best buys worst customer list till you get the 90 day ban which is from a 3rd party. With two big value returns within a short time frame, your pushing your luck, it could happen to anyone at any time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beergut99 View Post

700

Edited by joehonest - 11/19/12 at 1:39am
post #37 of 97
Haha yes I understand, but if I get the warning then I won't buy from them for 90 days, I'll simply choose Amazon... or I'll have my gf buy it :P

I returned the most recent TV on October 21, and before that it was like September 23. If I purchase a TV under the extended holiday return policy and end up needing to return it by January 24, that will have been 90 days with no returns. No big deal.
post #38 of 97
so how many previous returns does it take to activate this new 'no returns' policy...as long as it's not some small number then I'm somewhat OK with it although you are potentially affecting legit returns from customers as well...those legit custmomers will never shop at Best Buy again after that
post #39 of 97
Easiest solution: shop elsewhere. That's what I do.

In a couple of years it won't matter anyway. Bestbuy will be just another outlet to buy phones.
post #40 of 97
Last I checked, it's Best Buy's right to implement any policy they want... If you don't like it, you can always shop elsewhere....
post #41 of 97
I thought about it today and the last thing I bought from Worst Buy was some headphones in 2003.
post #42 of 97
looked at their flyer aside from getting both kill bill movies for under $10 and 1/2 price Klipsch icon speakers( not much looks good, granted the "trample everyone else to get one"(aka door buster) deals arent announced yet and if they were there they werent that good, so not much to worry about

https://blackfriday.bestbuy.com/#!/door+busters flyers pretty misleading as it does say extended holiday returns through jan 24
post #43 of 97
No need to worry about returns. Best Buy will probably not be around after the holidays anyway.
post #44 of 97
The solution is simple. Buy one thing at a time. Make sure it works. If it doesn't, return it. Repeat as needed until you get on the 90 day list. After which, you will need to wait 90 days to buy your next item.

I understand Best Buys position. They're not after the person who occasionally gets a defective product and wants to exchange it. They're after the person who buys product A and decides to return it after 25 days. Then gets product B and returns it after 25 days, etc... . I know people who do this. They buy clothes that they wear a couple of times and then return it for new clothes that they then return.
post #45 of 97
Here's the problem. Say I buy a TV, it has banding, clouding whatever. I exchange it.
With the replacement, they hand me a 90-day no return slip.

I now have a second TV that has a 50-50 chance of being buggy as well. Lets face it, most people here on the forums seem to go through 3-5 TVs before they get a good one. This is the fault of manufacturers cutting corners in a bad economy hoping to stick idiots with flawed product they can tell isn't right.

So now there is a situation that I'm holding a TV that can't be returned for 90 days regardless of the condition?

I'm not talking new purchases within that 90 days, they are saying no other returns or exchanges.
They've just told you that you must keep a possibly defective item? I can't see that being legal.

Seriously, I was about to buy from them, but this will be my 2nd TV this year and the first took 5 returns. I'm not sure I can risk it.

Is this policy only in effect for Black Friday or is it their new policy, period?
post #46 of 97
Wait, this doesn't appear to be new. The discussion of this on BBY's forum dates back to November of LAST year.

Has anyone here actually been hit with this policy? http://forums.bestbuy.com/t5/Best-Buy-Geek-Squad-Policies/Future-Returns-Will-Be-Declined-for-90-days/td-p/374604
post #47 of 97
Like a previous poster said, some store won't even let you return the merchandise (although rare) and you have to do it yourself with the manufacturer. BB, like many others, is doing it for you as an extra service. They also have to deal with the manufacturer's for the defective merchandises. They just don't throw it in the garbage or fix it with glue and call it refurb. Also, "most" returns has to be sold as "open box" or refurbished" and this eats in your margin. Also, when they do their fiscal budget for the year, they most certainly have an amount budgeted to "swallow" some of those internal, variable costs. Perhaps BB went over those projected costs and like many other company, the goal is to minimize expenses. Mind you, some merchandise that is manufactured for them, gives them more leeway.

Because of their generous return policies of the past, some ppl started abusing in the way that some posters described. More than likely, certain manufacturers pointed out to BB that their purchase to return ratio was high and that it would be financially not feasable anymore to do business. BB do not want to lose some of those manufacturer's so they had to act. Yes, some E-tailers also offer great return policy but because of the immediate nature of a brick and mortar store and the human nature of "right here right now", they are more succestible of abuse. I suppose that it's just easier to walk in, exchange and refund than the few extra steps it may take for online purchases.

This is a simplified explanation of a possibility and by no means a fact and I'm not trying to "school" anyone on retail. I'm also in the retail world and it is certainly a plausible scenario.
post #48 of 97
Stay away from BestBuy then and buy all your electronics/games at Gamestop, Target, or somewhere else without these draconian policies.
post #49 of 97
this whole thread is a good example of what is wrong with the internet... frown.gif

ok, show of hands. who out there has been denied a return of defective merchandise?

< crickets chirping >

so fa, this has been nothing more than a "stay tuned for the 11pm news, where we relate a horror story that COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!!!!"... rolleyes.gif
post #50 of 97
Screw Best Buy.. Abuse them if you can.. Go, look and tryout what you want to buy then get it somewhere else. mad.gif
post #51 of 97
BB already had some strange return practices. I stopped shopping there when I returned a navigation unit and they charged me some restocking fee or some such. They said they charged that on a host of items. I don't have to pay that at other places so I don't bother with BB anymore.


Besides, how can BB possibly connect one purchased item to another? I don't give out my address or phone number with purchases and I NEVER use any of those tracking cards stores give you in the name of 'discounts.' If I pay with cash they should not be able to track me.
post #52 of 97
Bamboozled: Retailers are monitoring your return habits

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2012/11/bamboozled_1.html

Whenever you make a return with a retailer who have contracted with 'The Retail Equation' they will require you to produce some form of ID.
I understand why retailers want to reduce excessive returns, especially fraud cases, but I detest their lack of disclosure that your information is being provided to an additional third party.

Best Regards
KvE
post #53 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post

Screw Best Buy.. Abuse them if you can.. Go, look and tryout what you want to buy then get it somewhere else. mad.gif

wow! what an informative post!
post #54 of 97
This policy is not new. The way most customers end up on this list is with HEAVY return abuse. Looking at the history of people that receive this warning you would see rampant abuse and likely return fraud. It also primarily has to do with merchandise returned without a receipt. Your average, or even moderate "returner", would not raise this flag. It is to prevent fraud, and designed to not limit legitimate returns. Unless you have a situation that involves someone wrongfully being denied a return, and are willing to post the official return history that TRE provided, please save you sensationalism for real issues.
post #55 of 97
Just spoke with a friend in a Magnolia store (high end BB department) and he had two important piece of info:

1) They CAN override the 90-day ban (if they WANT to). In other words if they know and trust you, it doesn't mean a thing. They PRETEND they can't override it if they think you're a jerk and don't want to argue.

2) The algorithm searches for a history of abuse. Most commonly someone who buys a TV, holds it for nearly 30 days, returns it, gets a new one, and repeats this. Some peole do it to extend the warranty indefinitely or to treat BB as a source for free equipment rentals.

Legit customers need not fear. Can we close this stupid thread now?
post #56 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Can we close this stupid thread now?

agreed
post #57 of 97
Thanks to the op for the heads-up.

I won't get into the appropriateness of this return policy, but I will say that for those instances where defective products returns are involved consumers are not without recourse in many states.

For example, California has very consumer-friendly laws regarding returns of defective merchandise. If an item is placed into the stream of commerce, is subject to a full or limited warranty, and becomes defective during that warranty period due to no fault of the consumer, buyers are entitled to a return of their purchase price. Best Buy can limit the number of returns it will allow on products that are either defective out of the box or become defective at any time during the warranty period and the responsibility falls on the consumer to seek reimbursement from the manufacturer.

I went through all this when I bought a Sony tv from BB several years ago. Upon purchase I received a MANUFACTURER'S warranty - not a RETAILER'S warranty, so when my tv went bad during the warranty period my course of action was to seek reimbursement from Sony, not BB.

Therefore, if one purchases an item from BB during the "Black Friday" period which is covered by a manufacturer's warranty, the item is/becomes defective during the warranty period, BB replaces the item. the second item is/becomes defective and BB refuses to replace it or tender a refund, the consumer must negotiate a refund or replacement with the manufacturer.
post #58 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by badboi View Post

Easy. Make sure you get what you want, don't buy 5 items at Black Friday thinking that you can flogg 'em for a profit and find out you can't and then try to return them. No wonder they've implemented these policies.

+1
post #59 of 97
Dumb post Joe.
post #60 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Here's the problem. Say I buy a TV, it has banding, clouding whatever. I exchange it.
With the replacement, they hand me a 90-day no return slip.
I now have a second TV that has a 50-50 chance of being buggy as well. Lets face it, most people here on the forums seem to go through 3-5 TVs before they get a good one. This is the fault of manufacturers cutting corners in a bad economy hoping to stick idiots with flawed product they can tell isn't right.
So now there is a situation that I'm holding a TV that can't be returned for 90 days regardless of the condition?
I'm not talking new purchases within that 90 days, they are saying no other returns or exchanges.
They've just told you that you must keep a possibly defective item? I can't see that being legal.
Seriously, I was about to buy from them, but this will be my 2nd TV this year and the first took 5 returns. I'm not sure I can risk it.
Is this policy only in effect for Black Friday or is it their new policy, period?

OTOH, if THIS is the case, then this part of the policy would be bad.
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