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SONY VPL-VW500ES SXRD 4K Projector : IFA BERLIN 2013 - Page 8

post #211 of 482
Thread Starter 
My pleasure Tom and hifiaudio2 smile.gif
post #212 of 482
Dear Kraine,
Fantastic work. Look forward to seeing more video and the other details of the projector. Thanks for the wonderful job. Keep it going.
Regards,
John
post #213 of 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Ok, some things I'm wondering about:

(1) The VW1000/1100 is rated with 1,000,000:1 contrast, the VW500 with 200,000:1. Where does the difference come from? Do they use different quality panels? Or is it just a different Iris? Will there also be a 5x difference in native contrast?
(2) I suppose the VW500 has a lesser quality lens compared to the VW1000/1100?
(3) How about ANSI contrast?

1) Most likely all of the above are true. That was the case when comparing their previous low-end and high-end projectors of similar age like the VW95 vs. HW30. VW95 had native contrast of ~20000 vs. ~7,500:1. Once you scale the native contrast via a better dynamic iris, you may very well end up with 5x dynamic contrast difference. Real world difference will probably be much smaller.

2) Unknown but given the price difference, I would expect so.

3) VW1000 gets around 600:1. I think the hw50 got around 400:1. So the VW500 will probably be somewhere in the middle.
post #214 of 482
Well, there is a lot more to the light path than just the lens and SXRD panels. For one thing they're probably using lower quality wire grid polarizers and the light path design is probably less light deadening to stop stray light/reflections. Those two things right there can dramatically effect contrast performance (on/off and ansi) without even stating lens quality/lens coatings and the contrast performance of the panels. ANSI contrast on the 1000ES has been reported a little differently depending on the review. I've seen it measured as high as 750:1. Above 600:1 is fantastic in the projection world and rivals most high end DLP machines. Lens quality will most definitely be taking a hit. The amount of zoom stated is 2.06:1 on the 600ES versus 2.10:1 on the 1000ES so we know it's definitely a different lens.

No one should be expecting 1000ES quality to the the image with the 600ES. It will be less, otherwise they wouldn't be offering an updated 1000ES model. There'd be no incentive for someone to buy the new 1000ES model if there wasn't. Another thing that hasn't been identified is the quality of the upscaling. The scaler in the 1000ES was supposedly a substantial part of the expense to the projector. Lesser lens quality, probably not as nice of a scaler, less contrast to the image. ect, the deficiencies add up to reveal an image not nearly as refined as the 1000ES. But that's to be expected due to the cost. I'm sure the image will be very nice, but not the quality of what the 1000ES can do.
post #215 of 482
Thread Starter 
All i can tell right now is that the balance between brightness and contrast of the VW500ES is impressive on the 140 inches screen. I'm going back this afternoon to learn more about it.
post #216 of 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

All i can tell right now is that the balance between brightness and contrast of the VW500ES is impressive on the 140 inches screen. I'm going back this afternoon to learn more about it.

Besides the 4k ability, how would you say the performance and picture quality compares to the VW95?

Also please check CAREFULLY for any bright corners...
post #217 of 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Besides the 4k ability, how would you say the performance and picture quality compares to the VW95?

Also please check CAREFULLY for any bright corners...
I have not seen it (will on friday), but I can assure you it will blow the 95 away!smile.gif And if it has the same panels and tecnology as the VW1000 it wil not have any bright corners as this is no issue on the 1000.
post #218 of 482
Thread Starter 
I will. Picture is far better IMHO than the VW95. The punch of brightness and the increase of résolution make the différence.
post #219 of 482
Be still my beating heart! Can't wait to get hold of one of these. My VW95 has been superb but time has moved on.... Time to upgrade.
post #220 of 482
Hi Kraine,

Excellent coverage as always.

Sounds like a very nice PJ.

Could you try walk up to the unit to determine how loud it is?

Looking at spec sheet the only obvious negative I spot is fan noise = 26db
http://www.sony.co.uk/product/home-cinema-projectors/vpl-vw500es

Much as I like my current JVC X-35 it's noisey even in low lmap mode ( 23dB ) compared to the Sony VPL-VW80 (20dB) I had before that...


Thanks
post #221 of 482
Thread Starter 
Another footage of the VW500ES is on the way. Just coming out from SONY BOOTH (again !)

It's a very quiet projector even in high lampe mode.
post #222 of 482
Nice work kraine! Looking forward to more videos & details on this machine,

Do you know anything about the lens used in the VW500 and how it compares to the VW1000 lens? Can you say anything about the black levels if compared with the VW95?

Can`t hardly wait to replace my VPL-VW85 with this beauty smile.gif
post #223 of 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

Another footage of the VW500ES is on the way. Just coming out from SONY BOOTH (again !)

It's a very quiet projector even in high lampe mode.

Do you have an information on the projector calculator and distance needed for this projector?
post #224 of 482
Thread Starter 
The bloc engine is totally new, it's not the former bloc engine from the VW95 or from the VW1000. It's a whole new product. New vidéo is almost online wink.gif
post #225 of 482
Thread Starter 
post #226 of 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I've seen it measured as high as 750:1. Above 600:1 is fantastic in the projection world and rivals most high end DLP machines. Lens quality will most definitely be taking a hit. The amount of zoom stated is 2.06:1 on the 600ES versus 2.10:1 on the 1000ES so we know it's definitely a different lens.

I lost all faith in ANSI contrast measurements online when I noticed the average variance between one reviewer to the next was probably about 50%. I've seen ANSI contrast measurements of certain projectors be stated at 250:1 by one guy, and 900:1 by another (no joke). If they are going to even take ANSI readings, I would really prefer they use another projector to reference off every time they take a reading on a different projector.

For instance, they can say today I re-measured the Runco LS-5's ANSI in the same room next to this same projector at 500:1 ANSI (and without moving the tripod), and now this other projector shows 400:1 Ansi (without moving the tripod). Something like that for safe keeping. It doesn't solve the problem of measuring ANSI, but it helps a little. ANSI contrast is hard to measure correctly, you generally need VERY high-end equipment to do it, the exact tripod angle previously used, and projectors with similar white field uniformity. To really do it accurately, you have to block the white light from bleeding over the dark reading in the checkerboard pattern, and this is not easy to do without creating funnels or some type of carbon-like light absorbing filter.

Otherwise, you at least need to develop a way to squelch or at least evaluate your error from a baseline reference comparison method.
post #227 of 482
With Kraine's reports of great brightness, I wonder if the new, "enhanced" light path could net about the same calibrated brightness from a 265 watt bulb that we were getting from the 330 watt bulb in the 1000?
post #228 of 482
That does seem to be the pattern over the last few years, higher brightness, lower wattage, and in some cases even maintaining contrast when they did it. Does this hold true at this level of specs, no idea.
post #229 of 482
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I have not seen it (will on friday), but I can assure you it will blow the 95 away!smile.gif And if it has the same panels and tecnology as the VW1000 it wil not have any bright corners as this is no issue on the 1000.

There is absolutly no bright cornes issues on the VW500ES picture in Berlin.

And here is a very close look of the pannels alignments

post #230 of 482
As, Sony's 4k server notwithstanding, the 500es will mainly be used to upscale 1080p content until 4k sources become more readily available, perhaps you can comment Kraine on how well it does in this respect. I haven't had the opportunity to see a VW1000 with Reality Creation but I have seen screenshots that indicate that it performs well when upscaling. The 500es has an updated Reality Creation. How well does it do?

Also, the Dynamic Iris is upgraded too. Do you know whether it is this that accounts for the slightly improved contrast 200,000:1 as opposed to the VW95's 150,000:1? If it's more aggressive is it's action more noticeable?
post #231 of 482
Thread Starter 
I have watched the movie spiderman mastered in 4k blu-ray version upscaled from 1080p to 4K with the reality creation engine of the VW500ES, I can easily wait for native 4K sources with this kind of upscaling biggrin.gif Does it answer to your question ?
post #232 of 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

I have watched the movie spiderman mastered in 4k blu-ray version upscaled from 1080p to 4K with the reality creation engine of the VW500ES, I can easily wait for native 4K sources with this kind of upscaling biggrin.gif Does it answer to your question ?

I guess it does smile.gif
post #233 of 482
You're wrong. 4k content is here now and will grow exponentially in months now that HDMI 2 is the standard.
post #234 of 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

I have watched the movie spiderman mastered in 4k blu-ray version upscaled from 1080p to 4K with the reality creation engine of the VW500ES, I can easily wait for native 4K sources with this kind of upscaling :D Does it answer to your question ?

With the Mi4K bluray 35mbps, rc + 4k filter, it didnt achieve 90% of native 4k?
post #235 of 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgetheavguy View Post

You're wrong. 4k content is here now and will grow exponentially in months now that HDMI 2 is the standard.

Other an a select few titles from Sony, UHD is not here and we won't be seeing much content for at least another year.
post #236 of 482
Kraine

Thanks for all the good reporting smile.gif

A few questions:

Do the 500ES have the pulsing technic with the lamp in 3D ?

Have you heard anything about the update for the 1000ES here in Europe ? ( HDMI 2.0, HFR, CMS ? , 3D RF ? , Wireless HDMI option ? and use off the TDG-BT500A

Can you compare the 500ES performence wise to the 1000ES ? ( knowing that you have seen both )

But it sure looks like this will be a very nice projector

TIA

dj
post #237 of 482
He can't say re all the details of the upgrade and the possible new 1100ES. Just wait 3 weeks until cedia but the upgrade that has been announced without all the details of the extra internal goodies is applicable so far for north american sets (specifically for sets purchased in the USA and not shipped to another country.
post #238 of 482
True enough for now........Sony has 70 movies available and some TV shows as well, but tech has held back 4k up until now. The floodgates are open and it will be a flood indeed.
HDMI 2 is a game changer.
Sony also just put out a prosumer and a pro 4k camera 4500.00 and 6500.00 respectively
post #239 of 482
Actually Sony has over 200 movies in 4K back in 2005 (for DCI), they are just "leaking" somes to consumers now.

They have much more now, just go at DCI part of Sony and see the list.

Somes are even in 6K and 8K.
post #240 of 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgetheavguy View Post

Sony also just put out a prosumer and a pro 4k camera 4500.00 and 6500.00 respectively

Blackmagic cinema camera $3999 is better (IMHO).

Now if you need 60fps, it can be for now.
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