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The 'Paint booth' discussion - Paint and Finishing questions

post #1 of 138
11/14/12 at 6:42am
Thread Starter 
For those of you who are using some type of wood - Baltic birch, cabinet ply, other ply, etc. I have a few questions. I'm relatively new to the wood finishing process and could use some help. With all the work and effort that goes into box designing, cutting, routing, clamping, and preparation, I really want my boxes to look their best.

Besides sanding edges, how are you getting them invisible?

How many are using a sanding sealer and/or a type of primer? What type of product are you using? Spray or brush/rolled on?

What type(s) of paint are recommended? Spray or roll on? Sanding between coats? What grit? For those rolling on, are roll marks visible? How are you dealing with them?

Thanks in advance,
Andrew
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post #2 of 138
11/14/12 at 9:04am
"Besides sanding edges, how are you getting them invisible?"

could you clarify what you mean?
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post #3 of 138
11/14/12 at 10:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Besides sanding edges, how are you getting them invisible?"
could you clarify what you mean?

Sorry - should have been more clear. The only visible edge from the front (or back) of the box I have really is the outer baffle edges along the front and sides of the box. I've used a flush trim bit to get them nice and flush with the rest of the box and now I'm ready to finish/seal. Should I merely just sand the edge or should I fill it with wood filler?
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post #4 of 138
11/14/12 at 10:25am
if you are looking to fill pinholes and other minor surface imperfections, there is a product called high build primer aka filler primer that may help.

---

ah, i think that i just got your question. that is called end-grain on plywood. yes, high build primer and sanding it smooth will make it disappear.
Edited by LTD02 - 11/14/12 at 10:32am
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post #5 of 138
11/14/12 at 10:29am
Thread Starter 
Something like this?

http://www.kilz.com/MCContent/MC_Product/KILZ/KILZ_TDS/HighBuild_TDS.pdf

Do you have a particular product you've used and can recommend? Luckily there really aren't too many 'flaws' in the wood, I just want to ensure I have a nice solid base for the paint.
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post #6 of 138
11/14/12 at 10:33am
^ that should not be needed with a proper take-down using 220/400G. Properly prepared good quality plywood should take a quality pint perfectly...you can prime it if you wish, but it's not needed in my experience.

You will not find a finer filler than the this that I PM'd you: http://www.amazon.com/Famowood-36021106-23-Ounce-Adhesive-Birch/dp/B000KKMZ9O/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1352917891&sr=8-8&keywords=wood+filler+famowood

Solvent based and I've never seen it shrink back or crack.

Worth every penny.

James
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post #7 of 138
11/14/12 at 10:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ that should not be needed with a proper take-down using 220/400G. Properly prepared good quality plywood should take a quality pint perfectly...you can prime it if you wish, but it's not needed in my experience.
You will not find a finer filler than the this that I PM'd you: http://www.amazon.com/Famowood-36021106-23-Ounce-Adhesive-Birch/dp/B000KKMZ9O/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1352917891&sr=8-8&keywords=wood+filler+famowood
Solvent based and I've never seen it shrink back or crack.
Worth every penny.
James

Thanks James!

Do you prefer rolling or spraying? I have the ability to do both, but cleaning the spray gun, especially between coats, is a PITA!
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post #8 of 138
11/14/12 at 11:16am
wood filler is a putty knife play. high build primer can be found in rattle cans...not the cheapest way to go, but pretty simple.
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post #9 of 138
11/14/12 at 11:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

wood filler is a putty knife play. high build primer can be found in rattle cans...not the cheapest way to go, but pretty simple.

Agreed - sorry, I should have specified I was referring to the paint, not the putty. biggrin.gif Apologies.
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post #10 of 138
11/14/12 at 1:00pm
no apologies needed. what kind of finish are you shooting for?
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post #11 of 138
11/14/12 at 1:19pm
Thread Starter 
I'm thinking either a matte black or a hammertone gray. The matte black would match my SHO-10's nicely though. cool.gif
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post #12 of 138
11/14/12 at 1:44pm
I think they should stand out a bit from the wall color. Matte black would look nice.
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post #13 of 138
11/15/12 at 5:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

For those of you who are using some type of wood - Baltic birch, cabinet ply, other ply, etc. I have a few questions. I'm relatively new to the wood finishing process and could use some help. With all the work and effort that goes into box designing, cutting, routing, clamping, and preparation, I really want my boxes to look their best.
Besides sanding edges, how are you getting them invisible?
How many are using a sanding sealer and/or a type of primer? What type of product are you using? Spray or brush/rolled on?
What type(s) of paint are recommended? Spray or roll on? Sanding between coats? What grit? For those rolling on, are roll marks visible? How are you dealing with them?
Thanks in advance,
Andrew

I skim coat w/ bondo gold, then sand it w/ a random orbital until only the imperfections have filler in them. High build primer works ok for really minor stuff, but it gets really expensive and I find I still have to sand most of it off which results in using half a can to fill a couple of pin holes.

I haven't had much luck with standard paint--other than rustolium rattle can for inside ports, but duratex is magic. If you don't mind a mat finish you can roll the stuff on w/ a foam mini roller and get a fairly smooth texture. I prefer a short nap roller's texture. You can even get a leather look using saran wrap.
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post #14 of 138
11/15/12 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ that should not be needed with a proper take-down using 220/400G. Properly prepared good quality plywood should take a quality pint perfectly...you can prime it if you wish, but it's not needed in my experience.
You will not find a finer filler than the this that I PM'd you: http://www.amazon.com/Famowood-36021106-23-Ounce-Adhesive-Birch/dp/B000KKMZ9O/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1352917891&sr=8-8&keywords=wood+filler+famowood
Solvent based and I've never seen it shrink back or crack.
Worth every penny.
James

James can this be topcoated with hot solvent coatings though? It doesn't list the solvent system on the link you supplied. I spray a lot of lacquer and would be worried about lifting this filler without knowing it.


I wouldn't put much weight on High Build coatings. Most of them typically have a lower ratio of solvent meaning they build in fewer coats, which has no bearing on their maximum build thickness. For instance many high build systems still have a maximum system film build that wont fill most box imperfections (seems that duratex is an exception however it is not a smooth coating)
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post #15 of 138
11/16/12 at 7:05am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the tips guys. I'm going to do some final sanding on box#1 tomorrow and hit it with some primer. Looking forward to it.
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post #16 of 138
11/16/12 at 7:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgse3 View Post

James can this be topcoated with hot solvent coatings though? It doesn't list the solvent system on the link you supplied. I spray a lot of lacquer and would be worried about lifting this filler without knowing it.
I wouldn't put much weight on High Build coatings. Most of them typically have a lower ratio of solvent meaning they build in fewer coats, which has no bearing on their maximum build thickness. For instance many high build systems still have a maximum system film build that wont fill most box imperfections (seems that duratex is an exception however it is not a smooth coating)

I hear ya...never been an issue for me once it's cured.


And precisely regarding the HB's...rarely are they going to work well with even the most modest imperfections if you're looking for a reasonably smooth finish.

I tell people all the time: don't think you're going to hide it (with "x" number of coats of "y"). What you see is what you're going to get...but in a much more pronounced "look at me!" color/finish, 9 times out of 10.


You could prolly use duratex on driveways though so I don't really include it. tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 11/16/12 at 7:17am
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post #17 of 138
11/16/12 at 8:12am
Thread Starter 
Guys - is there a worthy alternative to Duratex that's available at local stores?
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post #18 of 138
11/16/12 at 9:29am
Is there a reason you don't want to order? Duratex is a unique finish, like bed liner that is formulated for wood. The industrial style finish isn't for everyone, but Duratex does what it does well. I've tried bed liner type products that are available in stores and they are abysmal.

It's only $15 a pint: http://www.speakerhardware.com/duratex-roller-grade-pint.php
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post #19 of 138
11/16/12 at 11:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

Is there a reason you don't want to order? Duratex is a unique finish, like bed liner that is formulated for wood. The industrial style finish isn't for everyone, but Duratex does what it does well. I've tried bed liner type products that are available in stores and they are abysmal.
It's only $15 a pint: http://www.speakerhardware.com/duratex-roller-grade-pint.php

Honestly I was just looking to get one cabinet painted this weekend. biggrin.gif I was going to try my luck with a matte black basic finish, but I may be better off waiting and ordering some Duratex - gallon.
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post #20 of 138
11/16/12 at 11:41am
Ah, impatience. biggrin.gif I fully understand.

You could use some matte black rustolium done this weekend as a primer coat once your duratex arives in the mail.
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post #21 of 138
11/16/12 at 11:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

Ah, impatience. biggrin.gif I fully understand.
You could use some matte black rustolium done this weekend as a primer coat once your duratex arives in the mail.

We seem to think along the same lines, LOL. 1 gallon of Duratex has been ordered. I'll hit it with some matte black on Sunday most likely as a 'base.' Maybe it won't turn out too bad?
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post #22 of 138
11/16/12 at 2:17pm
If texture doesn't bother you then you could do Krylon's Hammered Black spray cans. It is a little closer to a satin/sg finish. I'm partial to Krylon because of their rotating spray tips and wide fan pattern. I find they give the closest spray pattern to a little hvlp unit. On the other hand I wouldn't use Valspar's spray paint if it was free!
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post #23 of 138
11/16/12 at 6:10pm
Answering the original question, when I built my 24" sealed cube I used mitered edges so you could not see any end grain. After sanding the edges smooth I stained the whole box and sealed it. No reason you couldn't paint it instead though. This method is harder than just butt joints and I probably could have used a lot more clamps during assembly but the seams look quite good in the end.
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post #24 of 138
11/17/12 at 10:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgse3 View Post

If texture doesn't bother you then you could do Krylon's Hammered Black spray cans. It is a little closer to a satin/sg finish. I'm partial to Krylon because of their rotating spray tips and wide fan pattern. I find they give the closest spray pattern to a little hvlp unit. On the other hand I wouldn't use Valspar's spray paint if it was free!

I've decided I'm just going to hit it with some grey-ish primer today and then finish it up when I get the Duratex likely mid next week.

Good info on the spray tips though, thanks!
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post #25 of 138
11/17/12 at 10:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushi View Post

Answering the original question, when I built my 24" sealed cube I used mitered edges so you could not see any end grain. After sanding the edges smooth I stained the whole box and sealed it. No reason you couldn't paint it instead though. This method is harder than just butt joints and I probably could have used a lot more clamps during assembly but the seams look quite good in the end.

Interesting, thanks for the input.

After sanding mine and doing the roundovers, I have to say the ends are looking GREAT! I'm going to do some final sanding on the edges and speaker openings and hit it with some primer shortly.

Thanks for all the input guys!
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post #26 of 138
11/21/12 at 3:54pm
I just checked it out and it looks like nice material. It's water-based while wet and removable with toluene when dried. I'd likely buy the spray version, but I'd need to know how much it can be thinned. I'm not sure my little two stage turbine HVLP could push the material well enough to spray. I've a feeling that 2 or 2.5mm spray tip and appropriate thinning would do the trick.

Application Instructions:
https://store.acrytech.com/files/Applying-DuraTex.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Honestly I was just looking to get one cabinet painted this weekend. biggrin.gif I was going to try my luck with a matte black basic finish, but I may be better off waiting and ordering some Duratex - gallon.
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post #27 of 138
11/21/12 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius View Post

I just checked it out and it looks like nice material. It's water-based while wet and removable with toluene when dried. I'd likely buy the spray version, but I'd need to know how much it can be thinned. I'm not sure my little two stage turbine HVLP could push the material well enough to spray. I've a feeling that 2 or 2.5mm spray tip and appropriate thinning would do the trick.
Application Instructions:
https://store.acrytech.com/files/Applying-DuraTex.pdf
I ordered a gallon of Duratex (spray) earlier this week. Not sure when it'll get delivered. Did you read their note about HVLP pressure pot? I plan to get a cheap hopper gun from HF instead of trying to HVLP it.

Edit: Added link to spray gun.
Edited by Stereodude - 11/21/12 at 6:14pm
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post #28 of 138
11/21/12 at 5:29pm
Thread Starter 
I wound up ordering the roller grade. Fingers crossed that it turns out ok.
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post #29 of 138
11/21/12 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I wound up ordering the roller grade. Fingers crossed that it turns out ok.

I'm only planning to put Duratex on the sonotube portion of the sonosubs I'm building. I plant to stain and clear coat the BB end caps. Like you, I also have my fingers crossed. biggrin.gif
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post #30 of 138
11/21/12 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I wound up ordering the roller grade. Fingers crossed that it turns out ok.

I used roller grade and found out you can get a smoother finish when it dries (smooth enough to slide a sub across carpet) if you apply a heavy coat and just spread the paint around evenly until the roller starts to empty out.
Then load up the roller again to cover up the next bare section. Do not re-roll over a previously painted area with an empty roller unless you want to create a finer/grittier surface, which actually looks better (to my eyes at least) but that surface won't slide on carpet as easily.

My smoother surface still looks OK, but it may not be what you want.
(Click on picture for a closer view of the texture)
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