Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 48

Paradigms are nice, but consider the Martin Logan Descent-i. It is outstanding, and works very well with the 105 (and the 95, and the 83SE).

+1. Descent i, is a FANTASTIC sub.

New BDP-105 review at http://www.laaudiofile.com/oppo_bdp105.html

Very impressive indeed ... Congrats Oppo!

I know the Firmware update fixed the lip sync issue with Directv. From what I understand the issue is fixed, but I never used Apple tv or any other third party device.
Edited by Todd68 - 12/19/12 at 10:51pm

Has anyone noticed how well the 105 plays at low volume levels? I watched Prometheus last night and had to double check that DRC was not on.

I have one question. On page 73...

Dynamic Range Control is applied to the analog audio outputs (stereo and multi-channel),
as well as the digital audio outputs (HDMI, Coaxial and Optical) when the audio format is set
to PCM.


Is the manual referring to the PCM track on the disc?

^ No. Dynamic Range Control applies when a Bitstream is decoded, because it uses values recorded with the Bitstream. Thus it applies only to Bitstream tracks and only if they are decoded in the player. Decoding happens for Analog output, for LPCM output on HDMI and Optical/Coax, and for Bitstream output of Bitstream tracks if playing a Blu-ray disc while Secondary Audio is ON (decoded prior to mixing and then re-encoded for output).

Decoding does not happen if you select an LPCM track.

Note however that if you use Bitstream output, decoding will happen in your AVR, and there is likely a similar Dynamics setting in your AVR which kicks in during that. So check your AVR for that type of setting when using Bitstream output.

Some discs are known to have faulty Dynamics meta-data, which makes them sound anemic for bass if Dynamic Range Control is applied. My usual recommendation is to leave DRC OFF in both the player and AVR unless you really need it.
--Bob

Bob Pariseau

I am planning to purchase a Paradignm Reference Studio Sub 12 which has Input Sensitivity of 100mV and input Impedance of 100k ohm (RCA).

Would this subwoofer be compatible with105?

^ I don't know for sure, although I think the answer would be yes. You could take the player to your Paradigm dealer and just try it of course.
--bob

First of all, many amps have switch-selectable -6dB attenuation on their XLR inputs specifically for folks who are mixing XLR and RCA outputs for whatever reason.

But yes, you will need to deal with the fact that the XLR LF/RF outputs are +6dB hotter than the RCA outputs (which includes the Sub), and that since you have some speakers Small, the Sub output needs +15dB boost to match the other RCA outputs (and thus +21dB boost to match the XLR outputs if the -6dB attenuation has not already been applied elsewhere).

Since you mentioned DSD content though, please note that if you play an SACD with DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion in effect then no audio processing happens in the OPPO. In particular, no Crossover processing happens. Thus all speakers are treated as if they had been set "Large", and the Sub output (which will carry ONLY the content in the .1 channel of the 5.1 SACD since no bass steering can happen) will need +10dB boost to match the other RCA outputs (+16dB boost to match the UN-attenuated XLR outputs).
--Bob

The first thing you have to figure out is whether Audyssey in your Marantz can be applied to its multi-channel Analog inputs, and whether you want that to happen. If the answer is Yes (to both), then you do not want any processing happening in the OPPO on those multi-channel Analog outputs.

So set all speakers Large (Sub ON), equidistant, and with 0dB volume trim at the OPPO outputs. (It is unlikely the Marantz will let you mix XLR from the OPPO for LF/RF with RCA for the other channels, but if it does, you'll need to also find out if the Marantz offers selectable -6dB attenuation on the XLR portion of that multi-channel input, and if not you can do that in the output volume trims on the OPPO). Audyssey in the Marantz would then do all the work. The +10dB boost needed by the Analog Sub input channel in this configuration is "standard" and so Audyssey should be applying that automatically. Check with a calibration disc.

(NOTE: One advantage of such a setup is that you can switch between SACD Output PCM and SACD Output DSD on the Analog outputs without screwing anything up, since your settings don't require any audio processing in the OPPO for either case.)

If Audyssey can NOT be applied to the multi-channel Analog inputs in the Marantz, or you prefer not to use it with those, then the next thing to find out is whether, with that multi-channel Analog input set to direct, unprocessed "pass through", you can separately control the Sub output trim for your digital sources WITHOUT AFFECTING the multi-channel Analog path. This will likely be the case since that's what Audyssey is doing after all.

In that case what you do is FIRST set up the multi-channel Analog path -- with Audyssey disabaled on that path. This will require you to manually adjust the Sub's volume knob to apply the necessary boost. Check by playing a calibration disc. Odds are even though that path is not processed, the Marantz will be providing +10dB of boost by default. It may even have a setting to apply +15dB of boost (needed if you have any speakers in the OPPO set to Small). Whatever the case may be, if your testing with the calibration disc shows the Sub is producing the same output level as the other speaker channels then you know you have the sub's volume knob set correctly.

Now, with that completed, go do your Audyssey setup. It will hear output from the Sub according to the volume knob setting you've already made on the Sub, and Audyssey will compensate as necessary to produce the correct Sub output for your digital sources as well.

Use your calibration disc (I recommend the LPCM test tracks from AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray) to re-confirm the ANALOG path is STILL correct after that Audyssey setup, and then use the same disc to check HDMI audio from the OPPO into the Marantz to confirm that Audyssey has also done the right job for the digital path.

Voila!
--Bob

Thanks Bob. So to be clear, even with DSD output through analog I need to attenuate the FL/R by -6DB at the oppo (my MC205 does not seem to have that switch) or does that audio processing not take place? Thanks for all your help.

You STILL need to account for the difference between XLR and RCA if you try to mix them.

XLR is twice the voltage of RCA simply due to how it works. The whole idea of XLR has NOTHING to do with fancier audio entering the cable, but rather a cunning plan to improve rejection of external interference that might penetrate through the shielding of the cable along its length -- which of course is why XLR is used for long cable runs in studios and such.

XLR (three wires inside the cable) sends the audio signal twice, biased either side of Ground. At the receiving end, one signal is subtracted from the other. The theory is that any interference which manages to penetrate the cable shielding will affect both signals the same way -- and thus this subtraction automagically eliminates it!

The math then is: a - ( -a) = 2a

Twice the voltage -- i.e., +6dB hotter.

For most every home theater installation out there, there is no real value to using XLR. The cable runs are not that long, and the sources of interference not that numerous. Decently shielded RCA cables will do every bit as good a job.

So don't use the XLR outputs and you don't have to worry about this +6dB difference. Use the RCA outputs from the Dedicated Stereo Analog set instead -- which have the same voltage as the RCA outputs in the multi-channel set.

XLR has a definite "coolness" factor, but really, for most folks there's no point.
--Bob

I am having trouble with lip sync and HDMI handshake using a Comcast (Motorola) set top box via HDMI input to the Oppo 105 displaying on a Sony XBR. I haver installed the most recent firmware. Any suggestions?

An interesting review considering that out of the entire essay, there are about 3 paragraphs which are truly dedicated to how it sounds...
There is plenty of info regurgitated from the Oppo info site...

Sounds like those car reviews where no one dares to write anything to offend the car dealers...

XLR can be a lifesaver for eliminating subwoofer AC hum.

^ Yes, but that's a band aid. It hasn't fixed the REAL problem which is how the interference is getting into your system in the first place -- which means the interference current is still lurking, waiting to cause other problems which may be more subtle than subwoofer hum.
--Bob

No, it hasn't. Still have issues from my Panasonic P60GT50 via HDMI ARC and Optical (worse with optical). The odd thing is that via ARC the delay is not consistent, it seems to change on a per connection basis (whatever it starts at it stays at).

Chris

Thank you

Any trick to getting this to "send to" the Oppo? I can see my JRiver library on my PC and launch that. I can see the JRiver server in the application. However I see no way in the JRemote application to output to the Oppo. Or am I missing something?

I also noticed the outputted quality from JRiver FLAC's to the Oppo was poor (downcoverted). Is there a setting (s) to insure all output frrom JRiver is untouched?

UPDATE: Jremote on the iPad works great with a function toe Send To a device. This is a nice solution. The only issue I see is I have a hard time killing the stream from the Oppo/Jremote. Took a power down yesterday. The stop button on the Oppo was operating like a next track. Home did nothing.
Edited by FMD - 12/21/12 at 7:07am

As Bob says, XLR is primarily used in live and studio applications with longer cable runs - not to eliminate AC or ground issue HUM, but to eliminate electromagnetic interference conducted into the longer cable runs. Two of three wires make up the audio path and are 180 out of phase, the "hot" pin usually carries the audio, cold carries 180 out of phase audio, and the 3rd is ground. The idea is that any noise introduced will be equal in both hot and cold wires but out of phase such that when they are combined at the destination, the noise is cancelled.

Additionally, the circuitry to do all this is "more stuff" - especially the transformer that converts the balanced signal back to single-ended inside the amplifier. In rare cases with very expensive amplifier designs, the signal may be fully balanced from input to output with no transformers. Many mastering studios will convert their gear to single-ended or use fully balanced gear to achieve a purist's signal uncolored by additional transformers.

For these reasons, I can't see any advantage to using the balanced XLR connectors on my processor or amp. I use 1 foot RCA cables and I think that it likely the best way to go or certainly as good as the XLRs. And the same for the oppo - high quality, short RCA cables work fine.

I guess Oppo will keep working on the issue and offer more firmware
undates. I know Directv hooked to HDMI in and HDMI 1 out on back of Oppo and sound via dedicated stereo out is in sync since the last firmware update.

Others still have sync issues with certain devices, so the only thing to do is wait till Oppo offers the Firmware update that fixes the problem.

This is an amazing machine! SQ/PQ are astounding! .. however..

I'm having challenges getting my SW to work

Simple setup:

DTV to 105's rear HMDI
XBOX to front HDMI ,
HDMI split out to Kuro/ Onkyo Pre Pro.

The manual indicates that SPEAKER CONFIGURATION settings /cross over..ect only applies to analog and not HDMI.

What am I doing wrong?

thanks all !

Thanks so much -

- the Marantz 7ch inputs are unprocessed, no Audyssey. It has no XLR inputs, just XLR outs to the amp which I don't use either - for my application I think short, good RCA cables are just fine.
- yes, it does appear that Subwoofer Level control is independent for analog and digital inputs.
- I think your guess is correct that the Marantz is automatically applying boost - I have to dig through the documentation to see if that is actually specified.

I don't have a good calibration disc at the moment, but using the crude test tones from both the Marantz and the Oppo and a TerraSonde Autio Toolbox and it's Sound Level Meter, I first found all the levels produced from the Marantz over HDMI (volume knob has no affect on these), then volume matched the Front L/R test tones from the Oppo through the analog path using the Marantz volume knob, then checked the subwoofer level which was about 5dB hotter coming from the Oppo. This was fairly easy to audibly confirm using some bass heavy DVDA material from both Steely Dan and Outkast - also handy that I can turn off the amp and hear the sub in "solo" to more easily verify what it is doing - I compared the HDMI playback (Audyssey EQ off to keep things consistent) to the direct analog path. So I trimmed the sub in the Oppo to -5dB to get as near consistent test tone and playback from both.

I'll get a calibration disc later and dial it in tighter, but for now, I have reasonable levels and more than enjoyable playback.

It is interesting to compare the analog pure path to the "Audyssey'd" HDMI path. Both sound good in their own way - the analog path seems more honest if that makes any sense and also may be benefiting from the Oppo DACs. While I like the Audyssey sound in some ways, it sounds very processed - and it is - and I can't help but be concerned about the amount of heavy graphic EQ and whatever is going on with their dynamic EQ being applied - kind of cool and kind of weird at the same time. For movies, it is probably a sure bet for clarity and dynamics, but for music - I'm torn.

Thanks, Bob. So DRC set to OFF disables this feature completely. I misread the notice.

I can confirm that the last firmware update fixed lip-sync issues that i had when using my AppleTV as a video source into the 105 via HDMI.

Sounds like what I have been going through. So many options and settings it is easy to miss something,

If you are indeed going only HDMI out from the Oppo to your Onkyo, the Oppo speaker configuration should have no effect. I can confirm this on my system by playing multichannel audio over HDMI and turning off my power amp so that all I hear is the SUB - then toggling the SUB configuration on the Oppo On/Off and it makes no difference in the SUB output which is, in this case, completely controlled by my PrePro.

If you are not hearing any SUB, check your Onkyo settings to make sure it is sending something to the SUB (fronts set to small and crossover set high enough to send something).

Or perhaps there is some other odd case where the Oppo would cut the lows from the HDMI output - If so, Bob will know what that is.

Also, it may be worth mentioning that "sub" in music is created by crossovers in the playback system (player or processor) whereas LFE (the .1 channel) is specifically recorded onto the soundtrack (usually movies, rarely but sometimes for music). The playback system mixes both the LFE channel (if present) and the crossed-over sub channel together and outputs them to the subwoofer.
Edited by stevepow - 12/20/12 at 10:43am

Thanks Steve!

Yes , I tried isolating as you did with the OPPO, then checked the crossover setting on the Onkyo. All seemed ok with the Onkyo. I then reconnected the Denon 3800 and the sub worked fine with the same content.
I will keep trying,,

Appreciate your help

I've had the 105 over a week now and I am very impressed. It's going direct to a Rotel RMB-1077 7-channel amp, an ICE amp I had in the closet for several years and was never my favorite, due to perceived harshness and so-so power rating (100 w/ch). I have Totem Rainmakers as my main Left/Right, and M&K Center and Side Surrounds, and they are all 4-ohms. The Oppo makes it all sound glorious and rich, and like I said in a previous post, even at low volume, it sounds great. I think this machine will become a game changer for the audio industry.

Thank you Bob, you are a gentleman and a scholar.