Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 69

Originally Posted by oldav 

For you fellows arguing about slew rate, I think first you should get your terminology straight. Slew rates for amplifiers are, in terms of times, measured in µs not ms. I am sure this was a unintentional mistake made, as we all do, but it makes reading your arguments somewhat confusing when one says that 40v/ms should be more than adequate. I am with gsr in that we are getting a little off course with this.

Originally Posted by davehale 

Stevepow,
Thanks for helping in this issue but I dont see a media libary listed after following your logic tree. The only thing that shows up in the box is JRiver which I have not used after the trial period. This way does look very clean and I am getting close but still my media library don't show up in this manner. Is there something that I have to enable or create a folder for my library to show up in my media devices to be shared? I think that may be the key as I need to somehow create a library folder somewhere as that may be the way that all of us newbies can create so that OPPO can see it.
Thanks for any advise you may give us.
Dave

Originally Posted by boyce89976 

That's my fault... I couldn't figure out how to make that "µs" thing, but figured everyone else would know what "ms" meant referring to slew rates.

Originally Posted by PugetsoundHD 

One last thought about “equipment reviews”. Remember music reproduction is ALL about what YOU like not about what someone else says. Your taste and the reviewer’s taste in music are likely different and the way you want it reproduced in your home is likely different even if you use live music as your reference! Bottom line: Enjoy the Music!

Originally Posted by leefarber 

I have also been pleased with the USB DAC, though I'm not sure if it is any better than my Lindemann 24/192 Asynchronous USB DAC. Neither option allows SW output, which is a shame. As much as I like my full range speakers, they can't reproduce the same deep bass that my Hsu VTF-1 SW can. Why can't the 105 route any audio it receives below the crossover via USB to the SW instead of the mains?

Originally Posted by leefarber 

The first question I have is in regards to the dedicated Stereo output: Is there any reason for me to use it if I am already using the 5.1 Analog outs? I don't need to use XLR since it's a small run and I don't have any noticeable noise problems in my system. Is this primarily for people who use a separate dedicated Stereo pre-amp apart from a home theater pre/pro? I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on whatever benefit the dedicated stereo outputs would offer.

When I setup the 105's speaker configuration setting to listen via the Analog outputs, I have selected SMALL and once again set the Crossover to 80Hz. I set the distances using a tape measure. Using the internal test tone, I have my Radio Shack SPL meter set to 70, and raise the volume of the Marantz until the meter reads zero. I then go around to each speaker and adjust the trim so it matches the LF output. Again, did I do this correctly?

Originally Posted by Styln 

Have seen many people excited about using the 105's DACs via the async-USB port and then lament they can't leverage any of the Audio Processing features the Oppo has to offer. Typical wants are: multi-channel DACs, bass management/2.1 support, DTS Neo:6, etc. And it's true that if you use the USB input, you cannot use the features available in the Audio Processing Setup Menu page. However, if you use the Ethernet port instead of the USB port, all of those features ARE available. Streaming your files to the Oppo takes some up front effort, but has never been easier or more rewarding.
Of course, this is not the solution for everyone. And I am not trying in any way trying to dissuade people from using the excellent asynchronous USB port. However, if your requirements include items in the Setup Audio Processing menu, you should consider using a network connection rather than a USB connection to play your content.
Styln

Originally Posted by boyce89976 

This is not an issue if you use the Analog XLR outs to a pre/pro and then use the bass management in the pre/pro, correct?

Originally Posted by oldav 

When you say that you go around to each speaker and adjust the trim until they match the LF output, do you mean you place the SPL next to the speaker or do you mean you take the reading from the point where you measured the distance from. The correct procedure is to measure from the point where distance measurements are taken from ie., the sweet spot for listening.
Sorry not to answer the other questions. As I read the manual then read the post here, I get more and more confused about those settings myself.

Originally Posted by Styln 

However, if you use the Ethernet port instead of the USB port, all of those features ARE available. Streaming your files to the Oppo takes some up front effort, but has never been easier or more rewarding.
Of course, this is not the solution for everyone. And I am not trying in any way trying to dissuade people from using the excellent asynchronous USB port. However, if your requirements include items in the Setup Audio Processing menu, you should consider using a network connection rather than a USB connection to play your content.
Styln

Originally Posted by PugetsoundHD 

Discs used were the SACD and Blu-ray dts-HD Master Audio of the 2L Trondheimsolistene Divertimenti starting with track #1 on both.

Originally Posted by boyce89976 

This is not an issue if you use the Analog XLR outs to a pre/pro and then use the bass management in the pre/pro, correct?

Originally Posted by leefarber 

But then you're doing an additional A-D and D-A conversion.
Yes, all readings are taken from the sweet spot.
Wow, is that true? I wouldn't even know how to set that up with my Mac Mini. Does it work with Mac setups?

Originally Posted by nycjazz 

Well, your AV will probably do that in the digital domain and then convert out to analog, so not much sense in using the 105. I have put a y connector out of the RCA dedicated stereo to my sub for DSD and DAC listening with SW. yes, it is a manual workaround, but for long sessions works for me.

Originally Posted by nycjazz 

Yes, just connect the ethernet from the 105 to the mac mini and you should be able to see the mac mini under Network and then just navigate to the music files.

Originally Posted by oldav 

The dedicated stero output has a better DAC associated with it vs the DAC 5.1/7.1 front left/right speakers. In my opinon the dedicated stero output has better quality output vs the 5.1/7.1 front left/right speakers. Refer to page 74 of your owners manual on how to set this up. Just give it a try and hear for yourself if it is better for you. You may be just as happy with your current setup.

Originally Posted by stevepow 

You are probably better off letting Windows 7 manage this for you - go to Control Panel\Network and Internet\Network and Sharing Center\Advanced sharing settings and "choose media streaming options..." You should see the media devices on your network listed and you can set permissions for them there.

Originally Posted by PugetsoundHD 

LISTENING IMPRESSIONS:
Finally, got around to do enough listening to the 105 in our tube based high resolution 2-channel system over the past week to give at least initial impressions. This should be taken in the context of previous extensive reviews of our BDP-95 on that forum. [They can be found in the following posts-p.24 post #700(2-10-11), p.36 post #1074(2-21-11), p.79 post #2344(3-28-11) & p.104 post #3097(4-20-11) on the 95 forum.]
Briefly, we found the BDP-83SE to be the equal of or better than our Cambridge Azur 840C, the BDP-93 was a bit better than the 83 in 2-channel and multi-channel with the BDP-95(replacing the 93) besting the whole bunch and becoming the center of our separate 2-channel and multi-channel/video systems which we have lived with until 30 days ago yesterday when the 105 arrived.
Unlike all previous digital sources we were in no rush to check out the 105 as we have and are thoroughly enjoying the 95. We had purchased the 105 primarily to use as a DAC for external sources. However, we did plug it in for a week or so and then checked it out for Blu-ray and DVD movies. Excellent quality on both as expected. The biggest difference in PQ turned up the following week when we replaced our original 50’ Monoprice HDMI cable with their new RedMere HDMI cable (also 50’) which definitely gave us better PQ particularly better blacks and better detail and was much easier to install.
Since this post is really about SQ let’s go there using the dedicated stereo RCA outs of the 105. Became intrigued when started reading all the posts on here. I believe one poster claimed 15-20% improvement. Of course, this we had to hear. So, here is what we heard in the past week when we stole some time from our schedule. First of all should mention that these impressions were made with identical cabling, power conditioning, vibration control and checking of output levels using our AudioPrism tube based system and JMlab Electra 946 speakers + sub.
It should be noted that our first 30” level check using Track #1 off of the Stockfisch Records “Closer to the Music” sampler gave a 1dB higher reading for the 95. However, a further 45” check gave identical levels. Got to thinking that if the 105 has a greater dynamic range with low level passages being quieter maybe the 30” didn’t play enough of the louder portion of Track #1 to get read by the Radio Shack meter. By the way, the 105 is dead quiet in operation except for a couple of relay clicks here and there identical to the 95 but without any fan noise.
Initial impressions after playing tracks 1 & 7 from the SACD Stockfisch “Closer to the Music” and two identical Usher “Be There” demo CDs simultaneously was that the 105 is slightly more open giving a better sense of space. Another brief listening session the next day using the same tracks from the Stockfisch SACD and a number of tracks from the Burmester CDII which we have used hundreds of times for evaluation. This gave us a marginally better defined bass on deep organ notes as well as more air and ambience leading to a slightly wider soundstage and greater ability to hear vocalists.
Yesterday afternoon we listened to:
1) Victor “Best One” Japanese CD/Track #3 which contains deep and loud drum notes. This gave us an extended bass with the 105 giving more impact such that the drum hits were more obvious as were the following reverberations.
2) Roberta Gambarini’s “Easy to Love”/Track #1 really opened our eyes to the difference of the 105 compared to the 95. The track was dramatically more open with vocal echoes in her recording space and the double bass giving slightly better defined (less flabby) bass. This was getting exciting.
3) Murray Perahia’s “Bach Goldberg Variations” SACD/Track #1 was another revelation. The recording venue was more open and “clear” for lack of a better word. We could hear the beginning, middle & end of each note which was lacking on the 95. Another “WOW” experience and one heard within seconds of its playing.
4) Michael Jackson’s SACD “Thriller”/Track #4 was sweeter but retained detail. Simply put it was much easier to listen to. (Our vinyl edition is better yet.)
That was it for 2-channel listening. Changed over to multi-channel using our Integra DTR-8.8 A/V receiver. This has a similar tonal balance to the tube system but lacks its resolution. First we played the following discs with the 95 hooked up to the standard six analog outs followed up by switching over to the 105. This was done only one time so take this brief review with a grain of salt. In addition, we assumed the output levels are the same.
Discs used were the SACD and Blu-ray dts-HD Master Audio of the 2L Trondheimsolistene Divertimenti starting with track #1 on both. Using both sources we sensed a slightly more open sound but would be hard put to tell upon blind listening. This was certainly not a “Roberta Gambarini experience”.
Where does this leave us. We would recommend that those with 95s not rush out and buy a 105 for the sound quality alone. We’ve thoroughly enjoyed the 95 since it’s purchase in early 2011. In our case we’ll be selling it so we have one source for our audio and video systems and can now stream video off of the internet for higher PQ than our A/V receiver and TV provide (we tried our Roku and the PQ was pretty “awesome”) as well as easily use external HDs for music stored for streaming through the 105’s DAC.
Some day we may have the opportunity provided to us during our early 95 evaluation to insert the 105 into ultra-high resolution audio only systems. Should that happen we’ll report it here but don’t hold your breath since at this point we really are going to have a hard time finding the time between our viewing and listening sessions. An amazing job OPPO!
One last thought about “equipment reviews”. Remember music reproduction is ALL about what YOU like not about what someone else says. Your taste and the reviewer’s taste in music are likely different and the way you want it reproduced in your home is likely different even if you use live music as your reference! Bottom line: Enjoy the Music!
(As always thanks to all that post on this and other forums here on AVS. Although hard to keep up with the amount of information and problem solving posted, as a community it is outstanding!)
Under "it never rains in Seattle" skies, Gill

Originally Posted by leefarber 

I didn't realize the DAC was even better on the dedicated stereo output!

High Fidelity Audio Performance:

SABRE32 Reference Audio DAC - The DAC is one of the most important components for digital audio playback. The SABRE32 Reference ES9018 from ESS Technology is the world’s best performing 32-bit audio DAC solution targeted for high-end consumer applications and professional studio equipment. With the ESS patented 32-bit Hyperstream™ DAC architecture and Time Domain Jitter Eliminator, the SABRE32 Reference DAC delivers an unprecedented DNR (Dynamic Range) of up to 135dB and THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion plus Noise) of -120dB, the industry’s highest performance level that will satisfy even the most demanding audio enthusiast. The BDP-105 uses two ES9018 DAC chips - one for the 7.1-channel output, and another for the dedicated stereo output.

Dedicated Stereo Output with XLR Balanced Connectors - The BDP-105 features a dedicated 2-channel analog output with specially optimized ES9018 DAC and output driving stages. The stereo output offers both XLR balanced and RCA single-ended connectors. The balanced output features a true differential signal path all the way from the DAC to the 3-pin XLR connector. By transmitting a pair of differential signals, the balanced output provides better common-mode noise rejection and improves signal quality.

Originally Posted by boyce89976 

I'm trying to figure this out too, and I'm wondering what the best connection scenario is:
1). As described above with Apple TV connected via HDMI to the OPPO, then XLR analog outs to the pre/pro
-or-
2). Dedicated external hard drive for storage, with iMac connected via USB to the OPPO using Pure Music/iTunes to feed the USB DACs then out via XLR analog to the pre/pro.
I want the best audio possible and have the ability to play FLAC files.

Originally Posted by PugetsoundHD 

LISTENING IMPRESSIONS:
Finally, got around to do enough listening to the 105 in our tube based high resolution 2-channel system over the past week to give at least initial impressions. This should be taken in the context of previous extensive reviews of our BDP-95 on that forum. [They can be found in the following posts-p.24 post #700(2-10-11), p.36 post #1074(2-21-11), p.79 post #2344(3-28-11) & p.104 post #3097(4-20-11) on the 95 forum.]
Briefly, we found the BDP-83SE to be the equal of or better than our Cambridge Azur 840C, the BDP-93 was a bit better than the 83 in 2-channel and multi-channel with the BDP-95(replacing the 93) besting the whole bunch and becoming the center of our separate 2-channel and multi-channel/video systems which we have lived with until 30 days ago yesterday when the 105 arrived.
Unlike all previous digital sources we were in no rush to check out the 105 as we have and are thoroughly enjoying the 95. We had purchased the 105 primarily to use as a DAC for external sources. However, we did plug it in for a week or so and then checked it out for Blu-ray and DVD movies. Excellent quality on both as expected. The biggest difference in PQ turned up the following week when we replaced our original 50’ Monoprice HDMI cable with their new RedMere HDMI cable (also 50’) which definitely gave us better PQ particularly better blacks and better detail and was much easier to install.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Dodo 

As I do not see a way to select external .srt files, I started merging my .mkv with the .srt.

Originally Posted by davehale 

Stevepow,
Thanks for helping in this issue but I dont see a media libary listed after following your logic tree. The only thing that shows up in the box is JRiver which I have not used after the trial period. This way does look very clean and I am getting close but still my media library don't show up in this manner. Is there something that I have to enable or create a folder for my library to show up in my media devices to be shared? I think that may be the key as I need to somehow create a library folder somewhere as that may be the way that all of us newbies can create so that OPPO can see it.
Thanks for any advise you may give us.
Dave

Originally Posted by TKO1 

That's what I do. I use an Apple TV connected via HDMI into my Oppo and this way you can play all your content (music, videos, iTunes store products etc.) and get the full benefits of the Oppo analog outputs. One of the downsides, at least when you start up, is that you need to have the video on to be able to navigate to your iTunes music using the iTunes remote control. But once you get it started you can turn the video off. I store all my music as Apple Lossless and it sounds fantastic played this way through the Oppo. A couple of minor thing with the ITunes library, you have to be logged in and iTunes has to be running in order for your computer to show up on Apple TV. This is not a problem as you can switch users and still remain logged in if your family shares the computer.
Hope this helps. Cheers.
Tony

Originally Posted by PSUShane 

It took me a while to workaround not buying Apple TV, but I have been able to get it sorted out. I apologize if some of the technical terms aren't correct.....My issue was not being able to play the songs I download via Itunes that were in the apple lossless format or drm protected. I turned on Itunes Match, a fee of $25 for the year. Upload all of my songs to iCloud. I then created a smart playlist via Itunes and set the parameter up to so that it selected any song that was less than 256k and created a playlist. Once the playlist was created, I selected all of the songs and deleted them. After that Itunes match automatically started to download the 256k versions that are drm free and in a recognizable format for the oppo. I'm using tvmobili for the dlna server as it was the only one I could get to work at this time and its free. Set that up and now the oppo can play all of my songs. If you want you can then deactivate the Itunes match service and you still keep all of the songs you "re-downloaded". Hopefully this may help someone out. Here is the link I used to sort most of it out http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57326759-285/how-to-use-itunes-match-to-upgrade-audio-quality/
Shane

Originally Posted by leefarber 

the more I read, the more intimidated I am!

>>>>>are you sure it is intimidation rather than suffering from smoke inhalation?

First, my set-up: The 105 is connected via HDMI and 5.1 Analog to my new Marantz 8001 (which goes out to my Sunfire Signature Series II Amp). Also have my Mac Mini music server going in to the USB DAC of the 105. I use HDMI for movies. I use 5.1 Analog for both Stereo and MCH music to take advantage of the DACs in the 105, but I am still experimenting with HDMI for MCH music to see if I like what Audyssey XT32 does for the room.

>>>>> I like some things about Audyssey, but also enjoy the raw unprocessed sound from the analog outs - I plan to use both and switch depending on my mood or until a clear preference emerges. To do this I connect Oppo.hdmi.1 to AV7701.BluRay/7.1 external inputs selected, Oppo.hdmi.2 to AV7701.DVD/HDMI input selected. I use the Blu-ray input for listening to the Oppo 7.1 (5.1 in my case) outputs and DVD input for listening to HDMI with or without Audyssey. To make sure DSD is working in either case, I set Oppo HDMI to "Split" mode - this is required for DSD over HDMI2 and also required for DSD over analog when any HDMI port is in use, otherwise Oppo HDMI Audio must be set to off - which you don't want to do.

The first question I have is in regards to the dedicated Stereo output: Is there any reason for me to use it if I am already using the 5.1 Analog outs? I don't need to use XLR since it's a small run and I don't have any noticeable noise problems in my system. Is this primarily for people who use a separate dedicated Stereo pre-amp apart from a home theater pre/pro? I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on whatever benefit the dedicated stereo outputs would offer.

>>>>> The dedicated Stereo output has a fairly different sound and I don't think you need "great" ears to recognize it. I have a Zone 2 I want to use, so I must use these outputs set to "Downmix" to have zone2 playback from my Marantz. If you are not using a second zone, you should spend some time comparing the 7.1 DAC to the stereo DAC (set both to FL/FR so they send the same audio) - easy to do with a stereo source and two different unprocessed (direct or pure) inputs on your Marantz - switch between them and the difference should be obvious. You may have to adjust the source input level to match them - I think the stereo DAC may be slightly hotter. The ear will almost always favor a slightly louder source in a comparison, so be careful of that.

>>>>>If you do want a Zone 2, I suspect your Marantz will not down-convert digital inputs to analog, so you will need the Oppo's stereo outputs set to Downmix and also connect to the stereo analog inputs for Blu-ray or DVD on the Marantz (I split them to both since I want a stereo Downmix to zone 2 for either Marantz input).

My next question (and greatest confusion) is about bass management. I am so overwhelmed by all the different attenuations and Subwoofer level changes brought about by things like DSD vs. PCM, XLR vs. RCA, HDMI vs. Analog, etc. I am having the 105 output PCM instead of DSD over HDMI, as it seems outputting as DSD is something of a headache with very little benefit.

>>>>>I had already run Audyssey on my setup before I got the Oppo. I am still waiting for my calibration discs to arrive, but for now what I did was play some unprocessed (direct) material over HDMI, with only the SUB powered on and took SPL levels. Then I played the same material through the 7.1 outputs and set the trim of the Marantz Subwoofer level (rather than the Oppo Trim) to match the levels played over HDMI. I played a lot of material I was familiar with to be satisfied that I got it "close enough". It turned out for me that no SUB level adjustment was required beyond what the Audyssey calibration had already defaulted all inputs to.
I can easily now switch between DSD and PCM and the main difference we should be hearing is the lack of processing by the Oppo since DSD is direct to the DAC whereas DSD->PCM-analog is processed by the Oppo (distance, trim, etc). I like having access to the DSD mix since it is as close to what the mix engineer heard as we can get.

Over HDMI, I am using Audyssey XT32 in the Marantz 8001. Prior to calibration, Audyssey had me lower my SW volume knob to a certain level. After calibration, Audyssey set my front speakers (full range Axiom M60's) to Large with a crossover of 40Hz. I changed this to Small speakers with a crossover of 80Hz. Was this correct to do?
>>>>>For comparison's sake to the Oppo analog, I think this is OK since the Oppo cannot do individual x-overs for different speakers. Later you may want to listen to what works best in your setup and adjust the Fronts to something other than 80. In my room, I like 40 better for the fronts, but for now I am using 80 all around on the Oppo and Marantz to keep listening comparisons reasonable.

When I setup the 105's speaker configuration setting to listen via the Analog outputs, I have selected SMALL and once again set the Crossover to 80Hz. I set the distances using a tape measure. Using the internal test tone, I have my Radio Shack SPL meter set to 70, and raise the volume of the Marantz until the meter reads zero. I then go around to each speaker and adjust the trim so it matches the LF output. Again, did I do this correctly?

So given all this, will I get less bass output if I play an SACD vs. a DVD-A? And is there a way to get SW output when listening to stereo via analog if there isn't a dedicated .1 channel?
>>>>>I "think" I am getting similar bass from both SACD and DVDA (rips). I have Steely Dan's Gaucho in both formats that I have been comparing and they both sound correct over the analog outputs.
I am still trying to understand what happens with the Stereo DAC for non-USB-audiocard style inputs: disc, LAN, USD drives. Bob says the dowmix will throw away the .1 LFE channel and there rarely is one for audio mixes - most engineers do not use LFE. Otherwise, I hear full bandwidth audio from the Stereo DAC when playing back these sources. If I am using the Marantz processing, I get SUB out.

I have also been pleased with the USB DAC, though I'm not sure if it is any better than my Lindemann 24/192 Asynchronous USB DAC. Neither option allows SW output, which is a shame. As much as I like my full range speakers, they can't reproduce the same deep bass that my Hsu VTF-1 SW can.
>>>>>I am using REL Sub with both a SUB input and high-level (speaker level) inputs that can be used simultaneously. They each have their own volume control and the filter only affects the high-level inputs. By setting the REL x-over just below 40 and the Oppo and Marantz x-overs @ 80, the REL high-level inputs never get any bass unless I am listening to a stereo source in Marantz direct or pure. In this case, the REL picks up below 40 and blends well with my main speakers. If your SUB can do this, it may be worth sorting out - it can take a while to dial it in, but to me it is worth it.

Why can't the 105 route any audio it receives below the crossover via USB to the SW instead of the mains?
>>>>>I don't know of any high-quality stereo DACs that do this. They all do 2.0. Apogee, Benchmark, Mytek, Lavry, Lucid,....they all are pretty much 2.0 - which might be telling us something.

Originally Posted by MLM 

"we replaced our original 50’ Monoprice HDMI cable with their new RedMere HDMI cable (also 50’) which definitely gave us better PQ particularly better blacks and better detail"
"and those Redmere cables from Monoprice are indeed something special and do make noticeable difference in PQ (I noticed the deeper blacks and a deeper image)"
PugetsoundHD and audiofan1,
Can you please tell us if your experience was with the "Slim series" or "Ultra slim series" RedMere cables.
Thanks,
Len