Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 10

PC/Mac Pandora is of the highest quality (at 192Kbits/s) if you subscribe to Pandora One. Oppo and other media players receive the lower quality streams and no option for them to stream the higher quality stream.

Edited by dmusoke - 11/22/12 at 7:34pm

Pandora actually has THREE streaming rates.

For computer listeners, you get the lowest of the three rates if you use the service for free. You get the highest of the three rates (along with no commercials) if you pay for the service.

For home theater devices -- and this includes the OPPO players -- you get the middle of the three rates WHETHER OR NOT you pay for the service. So the advantage of paying (for use on the OPPO) is escaping the commercials.

Pandora has been asked time and again why they don't offer the higher streaming rate for OPPO users (or users of other home theater devices) who pay for the service. Their reply? "Alas!", or words to that effect.

They don't elaborate on what's preventing them from doing this. Presumably it is more profitable for them to license the middle rate streams. It is certainly not a technical issue as is obvious from using any of the numerous other streamed music services -- e.g., Rhapsody now in the Public Beta firmware or things like TuneIn via the Roku Streaming Stick.
--Bob

 

After talking to Dan Wright (of the ModWright mod company), he said the gain of the HA is really low, at a gain of 1. It seems Oppo simply used the "Typical Applications" circuit in the datasheet of the TPA6120A amplifier from TI. To change the gain, hence power, will require a 4 resistor changes(2 for left, 2 for right), a proposition they aren't keen on doing. They defend the power specs as they are BTW.

 

Dan said he will work in improving the HA section as well, on top of his SS and Tube mods he's making for the 105.

Edited by dmusoke - 11/22/12 at 8:29pm

 

How much do you wanna bet that once the 105 is tested and found to have better specs overall, however inaudible,  then all over a sudden 105 owners will crow about its superior sound over the 95?

Actually, they told me they lack the personnel to do it as they are a small company. I had asked for a paid subscription to lossless music.

I since that some current BDP-95 owners are hoping the BDP-105 is not an improvement or a significant improvement over the BDP-95. It seems that people are only challenging or probing those posting that favor the BDP-105 over the BDP-95.

Does that make sense to you? They already HAVE the infrastructure to stream their highest rate, because that's what they send to computers. How many people does it take to change the URL used in the Pandora app on the OPPO?

Of course, I can see you are overreaching here -- nothing wrong with that -- asking for "lossless" music. Asking them to stream 7.1 channel, 192KHz 24-bit FLAC might be a WEE bit optimistic.

But asking them to enable home theater OPPO apps to receive the SAME "highest rate" stream they are ALREADY sending to computers (for paid users), does NOT sound like a reach.

Even for a small company. (A small publicly listed company, I might add -- i.e., they've already had their IPO, so what are they DOING with all that cash?)
--Bob

You hit the perverbial nail on the head Mr. Willie though I will say in all honesty that what I'm truly looking for and trying to decypher in these comparison posts is some sort of consensus one way or the other. Today has been quite productive with one reviewer claiming a 0-5% improvement and another claiming a 15% improvement. Personally speaking, if I continue to see an onslaught of 15% or thereabout reviews, I may indeed take the plunge. 5% borders on the ever so slightly noticable to inaudible range IMHO.
Edited by Torqdog - 11/22/12 at 9:36pm

So is there an improvement

I wanted to link this very good review but I thought that nobody would be interested since that's the same guy who told me how good the Panny 500 was compared to the 93 and even "more"...

And btw it means Holy Cow But I assume a Mr Pariseau must know a bit about french...
Good night. Will be ordering the 105 no matter what! Unless you guys keep finding tons of bugs but I just want a great CD and DVD-Audio player before all the rest.

^ Google's automated "Translation" service is a never-ending source of amusement!
--Bob

From my interpretation of that 5% improvement, the 105 is 5% leaner than than the 95?

First of all, welcome to AVS!

First make sure you are wired correctly. The Asynchronous USB DAC Input on the OPPO is the squarer shaped socket on the back panel. It is NOT the thin rectangle shaped USB socket -- that one is for attaching a USB hard drive. You may need to get a cable that has the appropriate USB plug on the OPPO end.

Using the OPPO remote, press the Input button (top right), A menu will pop up on your TV screen. Select "USB Audio In" at the bottom of the list. The OPPO splash screen will appear on your TV and the OPPO will now be listening for digital audio input on that socket. Whatever you play into that socket will go out on the Analog audio outputs and also on HDMI as 2.0 LPCM.

So play music on your computer. Are you getting sound now?

If not, then press the Info button on the OPPO remote (found to the upper right of the 4 Arrow buttons). This will bring up the on-screen Info display that shows you what the OPPO is hearing on that USB DAC Input and what it is sending out on the HDMI output.

If you are not getting audio on the Input then the problem is in the setup in your computer. I.e., either the driver you installed is not active yet (perhaps you need to reboot) or you have not yet told the computer to use that for sound output.

If you are getting audio in and out of the OPPO but still hearing nothing, then you may not have the correct input selected on your Receiver, or you may have accidentally hit the Mute button on the OPPO remote (near the top).
--Bob

Wait. Is that good or bad?

I honestly don't know how folks can characterize this stuff much beyond "liking" it better or not, but then there's a whole vocabulary of audiophile criticism out there which completely mystifies me.
--Bob (lifting the veil another 5%) P.

Hi Bob,
This is very good explanation....I loaded the drivers from the site then plugged in the usb cable into the PC then says found new hardware then searched for drivers automatically. Then says hardware is installed ready to use then your go to control panel>sounds>audio tab>OPPO pick OPPO as your audio device. Start your music from your audio pc player, Pick usb input from 105 and all is good. I've been listening to music from many sources the last couple of evenings the PC being one of them. I am overjoyed with sound and performance of this player.

Hi running,
interesting comment, when I posted, I knew that this comment would come.

2 comments from my side,

a) you are implying that I compare apples and oranges. I wanted to talk about what I hear and how it sounds for me. Since, I do not have equipment specific ears, it doesn't matter to me where the sound comes out from. If a specific DAC sounds better then be it a DAC, or what ever. As well, I rate the sound quality not according to the price of an equipment. If expensive stuff sounds better, which is most of the time the case; I still can buy according to my budget.

b) according to my experience there is in most cases a common understanding what sounds good and natural, exccluding 2 specific types of people. The first category are those who do not care, which are more and more folks who grew up with mp3. The second one are the dealers who sell a specific brand. Go to a Linn dealer, he wants to sell you an Klimax DS for 15k plus an extra table for 1k, which is absolutely necessary to make the player sound good. But to be fair, I also met a lot of more objective dealers.

I think you are failing to understand the whole comment on "perceived increase in sound". As I already mentioned, the BDP-105 sounds very good in my system. I have also been quite happy with the BDP-95 for the time I have owned it. I stand behind by my assessment of the player earlier in this thread. It is hard to assign the BDP-105 a % of improvement of sound over the previous BDP-95. Since, the BDP-95 and BDP-105 are made by OPPO, there are a lot more sonic similarities with the machines than are there sonic differences, especially if you were comparing the sound qualities of various other players from different companies. All I was trying to say (or put into some perspective) is, when you are upgrading from the BDP-95, dont expect the BDP-105 to sound leaps and bounds better like you are going from an early model DV-983H to the BDP-105. In my system the BDP-95 was my reference payer, the BDP-105 has dethroned it.
Edited by sac8d4 - 11/23/12 at 8:11am

 

Their reasoning was lame, i agree. I was ready to settle for stereo lossless, 16-bit or 24-bit but no dice. I even asked for the ability to rewind or skip back into the buffer to replay a favorite song...They said no way ...licensing issues prevented that from happening!!! I was flabbergusted to say the least. Such a simple feature requires lawyers to implement???

 

BTW, is there a music service that allows for lossless audio streaming? With broadband download speeds averaging about 10Mb/s in the USA, there shouldn't be a bandwidth problem. Stereo at 16-bits require 1.5Mb/s bandwidth(44,1000 *2 *16). A 24-bit stream would require 2.1Mb/s, again plenty of bandwidth left for other stuff.

 

It seems Pandora and Music artists are fighting each other about royalties:

 

1.    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-11-15/news/35139243_1_internet-radio-fairness-act-tim-westergren-pandora-media

 

2.    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-05/pandora-media-sues-ascap-seeking-lower-songwriter-fees.html

 

And with Apple getting into the streaming business, it sent Pandora's shares tumbling over 20% so i hope this will 'wake' them up to generate new revenue stream from subscribers like paying more for HQ audio music.

I for one hope it is an improvement and not an over cooked goose or a dog with a sweater! I'm glad Oppo listens to there customers but there is a point at which one must decide the important fundamentals. I want the 105 to exceed the 95 in pure raw performance first but from what I understand thus far they added something and killed the reference benchmark performance of the 95 to make the new feature work, I call that compensation and I hope the end result is more than a work around. I just don't want it to come down to choosing features over performance in that case the 95 will stay. Non the less this will be fun and I'm looking forward to the auditioning of the 105 as I'm willing to put my money on Oppo for one upping themselves.

dmusoke,
Pandora lives in a special niche carved out by lawmakers. To pay as small a royalty as they pay now (which they already think is too much) they have to operate within strict limits about HOW users can play the content. That's where things like no rewind, and limited plays of a given artist within each hour and such come from. Simply put, the content owners have better connections in Congress than the people who would like to make money streaming that content.

But right now Pandora pays per play, so enabling home theater devices to receive their "best" streaming rate should not be a licensing issue per se, but simply a hit on their profitability.

Oh well. Wrong thread to discuss Pandora's business model.

If you try the new Rhapsody app in the 1114B Public Beta you'll see it follows a very different playback model. And it costs more to subscribe.
--Bob

You can't know that yet, right? This is just a fear at this point? I think I'm spotting comparative reviews and objective tests pretty much in real time as they come out, and I've seen nothing so far that would raise this level of concern.

Time will tell!
--Bob

Still to early to tell in my book and I for one need more elaboration "you know, audiophile lingo" okay that may have rhymed a little but is it warm, lean ,recessed, forward, neutral etc. etc.

So you think I need a hug or something:D

Don't we all! There's nothing like a new OPPO release to start the adrenalin racing. Can they really have pulled it off -- AGAIN? At this price?

Seriously though, a lot of casual readers can skim through statements like that and mistakenly believe the evidence is already in, when, of course, it simply isn't yet.

Just trying to limit the level of panic here while we await more completely arbitrary and subjective opinions, urh, solid objective facts.
--Bob

Hi everyone!
first post, so pls don't be to rude if I play against any rules....

I was looking into this - lossless streaming service - for a way too long time (consciousness and the wife say so at least ).

Before I get to my findings let me explain my setup and testing:

System: Mac mini 2011 optical out 44.1khz 24bit > Cambridge Audio DAC 3 (old beast, 2002 or so but still playing on areasonably high level) > T&A V10 valve amp > Focal JMLab Electra 927 BE

Testing:
To know what would be the maximum possible audio quality from digital sources through my system, I first listened to various diffrent music formats (MP3, OGG, FLAC) directly from my mac mini through different players (ITunes, VLC, Amarra, PureAudio, XBMC, Plex....) and compared it to the same music played via CD (transport only through the same DAC then same setup). If I give a 10 to CD relative to my system, then Amarra and PureAudio play on the same Level, XBMC and VLC get a 9 to 9.5, Plex, iTunes and all the others a 8.5 to 9 with iTunes (un)clearly being last.
To know how good streamed music can sound I installed a non resampling streaming server (streamtome) in my network and did the same test again with all the players that support streamed audio. Result being, that I could not hear a difference between local play and streamed play.
Winner: VLC with a 9 to 9.5. Now let me be clear, I did find differences but they are so marginally small that I am not sure if I could discern with a reasonable high detecion rate through blind testing!

On to streamed Music:
Tested Services (all with their highest possible stream rates through test subscriptions):
Pandora, Live365, Last.fm, Simfy, Spotify

To be honest, Pandora and Live365 did lose out pretty fast, the quality is simply too far off from the best possible streamed audio. I'd give it a 4, maybe a 5. Last.fm somehow did not cut it either. They seem to have differing compression levels with some music soundig quite good, just to be dumped by the next track... Too bad, since their system lets you find music fitting to your current mood in a quite good way!

This left me with two choices. Simfy and Spotify. Simfy, according to me, has the better music collection. I live in Switzerland and Simfy offers quite a lot of european music not so well known to the rest of the world. But, while audio quality is no slouch at all (seriously!), Spotify beats it by quite amargin. The audio collection in Spotify sometimes misses the one song I really would like to listen to in that very moment, but hey!, what would I do if there were only the cds in my collection and no streaming at all!!?? There's some 18 million other songs in their collection, and Sotifys Radio feature creating Playlists based on chosen Song, Album, Artist or Genre is simply stunning! Maybe even better than Last.fm.

So, Comparing Spotify to local music through my Streaming server and to music played on the Mac mini direct:
There are some times where CD audio on certain CDs presents a bigger, more defined soundstage, like on the Soundtrack of the movie Into The Wild or on some classical recordings, and highs seem a wee bit more resolved, but then again theres this strange thing: Spotify seems to best it in the way ir renders treble and specially voices. don't ask me why. Maybe it has to do with their streaming Format - OGG - and the way the client renders the bitstream. I don't really care... It just leaves me stunned with goosepigs all over at times. Examples? Again the soundtrack from Into The Wild or, Norah Jones, Adele. I hope you get the picture...

So where does this leave me? I am a happy Spotify customer and could't care less about how to get all my CDs, ripped audio (be it ripped by me or someone else on the internet ) into my network and onto my system. I do have a small collection of local MP3 for all the stuff I really want to listen to at times and cannot find on Spotify. But its nowhere near as big as it used to be (1.5TB). And it never was easier to browse and listen to music i really want to in that moment.

Plus, with Spotifys IPad app and a small Program called Airserver on my Mac mini, I get to have a real Couch-sitting-music-surfing-never-have-to-leave-my-place experience simply trumping that tiny little .5 points of lesser audio quality compared to handling and listening to CDs.... Even better? The Wife Factor! It just works...

So, thats it my 2cents to streaming music....

Maybe someone even read this waaaay too long post

Marco

Actually some of the content is on the forums they have, such as this post

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hdfever.fr%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D8%26t%3D1408%26sid%3Dcf0304ea62babfb5179de88c52c2f8f3%26start%3D410

He indicates that there is a significant improvement in SNR and dynamic range from the 95. To be honest I have often had issues with the reviews on this site. They look very impressive and technical but the measurements sometimes deviate a lot from other sites.

My last input just a few posts above was actually meant as a reply to your post...
Marco

http://mog.com - Not lossless but pretty good quality stream AND the ability to play one song or an entire album of your choosing when you want, however many times you want - that's the killer part for me.

This week-end I will spend some extensive time listening to a new pair of Paradigm Signature S8, which I've been running non-stop for the past 5 days. I don't want new speakers coloring anything that I may be hearing when I finally attempt to form an opinion as BDP-95 versus BDP-105. The BDP-105 is definitely replacing the BDP-95 for other reasons. I am personally not expecting to hear any (or marginal at best) improvement since the BDP-95 tested practically off the chart and I think any improvements at this point may be measurable, but not necessarily audible. However, some have already noted improvements and have tried to quantify these improvements.

Having received one of the initial batches of 95's (not Beta) when released to replace two units and never having tried an Oppo player before, I soon afterwards a month later pronounced it a" Giant killer" and looking back at numerous awards and Audiophile praise later I was dead on. I'm hedging I will indeed heep out the praise in a few weeks when the 105 is in my hands, as I stated before I've learned not to bet against Oppo!