Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 15

I am hooking up the 105 with XLRs to my Bel Canto Pre 6, and then to to my Proceed AMP 5, are you saying you are skipping the pre amp and going directly to the amplifier??

This is high praise as the Cambridge 840C is an outstanding transport. I would have purchased it several years ago, but the rest of my setup was not up to the task.

You may have missed the word "meticulous" in "meticulous subjective evaluation'. Audio engineers conduct subjective listening tests, but in order to get usable data from them, they conduct them scientifically.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html

Having problem loading Orb BR on my 105. I keep getting a message when the Orb disc runs that says "player needs at least 1gb of free space". The Orb disc comes with a USB stick, but the 105 doesn't seem to access it. My 95 runs the Orb BR without issue. Any suggestions?

You are right. The gear I auditioned was one of the Nak receivers. I owned several of their cassette decks over the years and they were stellar. Thanks for jogging my memory, the stasis amps were iconic. The receivers, looked better on paper than they sounded.

I really enjoyed the 840C when it was connected to the 83SE. It was a smoother sound and it was used anytime I had a Cd to play. I connected my appletv to the 840C by toslink and it upsampled the music from my ipod etc. I could not tell the difference between the ipod through the 840C or the shiney disc spinning in it...The 83SE was used for Hi Rez, and performed well, until the sound of the 105 came to my ears!

The sound you just heard was the resale price of my 840C going into the toilet and Oppo's stock soaring!
Edited by pete6737 - 11/25/12 at 1:33pm

Well, I'm enjoying my 105 so far. No issues at all, no lip synch problems, software loaded without issues etc etc etc

My 105 is sending PCM via HDMI to a Marantz AVR, analog output to my Zana Duez headphone amp and XLR out directly to my emotiva power amp.

Using the 105 as a preamp works better than I thought it would though I'm only using it in 2 channel mode that way. And I'm cheating since my sub is still getting a signal from the AVR which has no other channels active (while listening to 2-channel music). I did this becuase I was lazy and didn't want to figure out how to add the 10db for the LFE and because this way I didn't have to mess up my room calibration. I can switch the emotiva power amp from SE to XLR in real time so it's an easy way to check differences.

A problem on this for me but one probably few others would be effected with is that all the analog outs are connected to the volume control so if you're using it as a pre-amp then you no longer have a line level signal going to your head amp so if you raise it back to 100 volume for headphones then you have to remember that when you switch back to the power amp or you'll blow something up.

The included head amp is nice and does sound good. I have no plans on using it, I just checked it out. It does power lcd-2's well enough but on a quick listen only though the sound was nice I think the dynamics were pretty limited. In all honesty the head amp power is strangely low though. I have a few head amps and though a couple are considered high-end they are all suddenly considered low power. With my grado's (which are very sensitive) I never go over 30% on any amp and the LCD-2 don't go above 50. On the 105 the grados are over 50%, maybe over 60 I don't remember and the lcd-2 can be upwards of 80. These setting are much lower on a rock album with the volume war issue going on. And again this is compared to low power amps with very sensitive headphones so even with grado's, which you should always watch out for, there is no chance you will damage them on the 105.

The usb DAC mode works great. No issues setting it up. Using foobar with wasabi, I was pretty happy. I played 24/88,96,174 and 192 files with no issues and the best thing is you don't need a tv on to play anything. (good time to use the pure audio mode too) This is also a good way to get to use all those ALAC files we haven't been able to play in ages. I have not done any critical listening to compare the dacs with my headphones but I'm pretty sure I'll be selling my new external DAC ( a AGD Ref-5.32). I'm glad the usb setup was smooth because I've always prefered to stay with COAX and was upset by the COAX limitations imposed by the 105 so hopefully that will no longer be an issue.

And since I have been playing with the 105 I got back into something else that I completely forgot about since I'm always using an external dedicated DAC. Multi-channel sound. I got a sampler of 2L 24/192 multi-channel music on bluray (plus I already had other SACD's and it is amazing. It's actually enough to maybe....maybe get me to stop listening to my headphones all the time. Even if you don't normally like the music it's just so nice and enjoyable and sounds so good that you like it anyway.

oh, 2 other things. the 105 also found my DNLA music from my computers without me even looking for them so that worked out well too.

I initially had a big problem where the 105 wasnt recognized by my AVR or the TV and couldn't get any HDMI functions to work. It turns out that will installing it, I unplugged my appletv. The HDMI was still connected but it had no power and even though it was not selected by the AVR (or obviously even on) the appleTV was preventing any other HDMI device from working.

And another, the oppo virtual 3d seemed to work better than the 3d on my Sony XBR950 but based off of watching a single broadcast TV show once I didn't find the 3d all that worth watching. Almost everything was at the same exact 3d level so I just turned it off.
Edited by tme110 - 11/25/12 at 2:00pm

Got my 105 just before the holiday...This was an upgrade for me as I had the BDP 93 and was thrilled with that lil machine. But right out of the box the 105 is tremendous in improved sound and clarity. With the holiday I have been able to give it some play time. I have a dual 2 channel system which gives me the capability to listen in different modes, a quick switch of interconnects and speaker cables VIOLA. My first and preferred set-up is the Oppo 105 feeding into a CODA CSi integrated amp feeding my large Tyler Acoustic Woodmere II speakers, true bliss is all I can say. The second set-up is the Oppo 105 feeding my Modwright SWL 9.0 pre-amp into a B&K Reference amp to the TA Woodmere's. About a year ago I had Dan Wright upgrade the pre-amp with the tube rectified power supply which greatly improved this unit tremendously. The new 105 has exceeded my expectations in the 2 channel arena, as I listen to a variety of formats from redbook to SACD, Dvd Audio and a large amount of CDR discs. Even watched a movie over the holiday and was completely blown away, even the wife was like WOW !!! For movies the Oppo feeds a Pioneer Elite SSP via HDMI into a pair of Bowers and Wilkins CDM7NT series speakers for the fronts and Martin Logan Motion 4's for surrounds plus a Paradigm sub. This is a very happy combo for us out in the rural countryside where the internet is sketchy at best. The new Oppo 105 is a great improvement over the 93 we had and sold to fund the new arrival, way to go Oppo.

Guys, there's an entire audio theory forum where this line of discussion would be better suited. Please stick to technical discussion of the BDP-105 here.

Easier said than done, because much of the discussion here has been along the lines of "how does it compare to the 95", which inevitably leads to specs vs. listening, law of diminishing returns, double-blinded testing, etc. Perhaps a thread just to compare the 105 to other players (Oppo and others) is called for?

MUCH of the discussion in the last several pages has been discussion that clearly belongs in the audio theory forum rather than in this thread. This is a fast moving thread that the beta testers are trying to provide support for. Throwing audio theory discussion on top of the 105 specific discussion makes it a lot harder for us to do that. Help us help you...

Just can't find the time for a full review so here is an instalment. I've added my equipment list in my profile so look there if you're interested. Also, unlike previous reviews, I won't be doing an A/B comparison. The systems are already split-up and I'm trying a less is more approach to my main listening system.

I burned-in the BDP-105 for about 5 days without listening to it until this review. Setup was done with the AIX Records audio calibration disc that came with my 83/SE and my trusty Radio Shack SPL meter. After level setting, I used the Stay In Tune With PentaTone SACD setup disc to ensure 5.1 SACD was also setup correctly. Because I am trimming some channels SACD --> PCM is applied. This system is an all audio system, and it is not standard or typical in that it is a 4.0 with all speakers capable of producing full-range sound. Finally, for this test, I removed my Audio Research MP-1 multi-channel pre-amp and connected the BDP-105 directly to the amps using RCA cables/connectors. The front speakers are driven via the stereo outputs in LT/RT mode.

Overall Impressions

I really like the sound of this player. It has the Oppo house sound and therefore, has the same timbre/tonal qualities of the 83SE I've been listening to for years now. This is a very good thing! My take of the Oppo house sound is it's detailed and cool. By cool I mean, there is no tube softness, rolling of transients, etc. If you like to hear the detail, good and bad, this player will let you hear all your system will reveal.

Soundstage sounds a bit wider, but it was already excellent. The soundscape has no problem expending beyond the outer edges of the speakers. Imaging too, is excellent with everything placed correctly. Hard to say, but I'll bet there is a bit more placement delineation between vocals/instruments with this deck. Everything is spatially separated and easy to hear. A wide soundstage with pinpoint imaging means I really enjoyed my listening session today.

Because I made two changes to the system (removing the pre-amp and replacing the 83SE) I was very concerned that I would lose system synergy. Happily, this was not the case Feeding the BDP-105 variable outputs directly to the amps is working very well: rock still drives and jazz still swings. To me, this is the most important sound related test, because if a component doesn't have system synergy, then I send it back.

Bass Testing

Wood - Brian Bromberg - CD
Love Deluxe - Sade - CD
New York Reunion - McCoy Tyner Quartet 2.0 SACD
Machine Head - Deep Purple: 5.1 SACD

I used these four albums for bass testing. Wood is a phenomenal album that displays both traditional and unique bass sytles and sounds. Here I am listening for tone, over-tones, and most importantly, to be wowed by Brian's virtuosity. If I'm not impressed/floored by what he does, then the system has failed. With Sade, I'm listening for a seamless immersiveness that only the Ice Princess can evoke in me. There is a lot of flowing bass here, and I expect it to be pervasive and enveloping without exhibiting sloppy transitions. On New York Reunion, Ron Carter is the man. The syncopation on the opening number needs to make me smile, if not burst out laughing for joy. I just love that opening! Not bass related, but I always listen to "Ask Me Now" on that album because Joe Henderson's sax solo will tell you a lot about your system. Finally, I listen to Machine Head. The electric tube bass sound is just captured so faithfully on this album. I love to crank this one up and see if the system will rock-out.

As you can probably guess, I am completely satisfied with how the deck played these albums. Everything I heard was rendered with incredible detail and beauty. I had no problem connecting to the music. The bass was deep and tight. Overtones vividly apparent. So this round of the test the BDP-105 gets an A+ from me.

Time permitting, I'll do another review or two focusing on the treble and the midrange for vocals and instrumentals. However, based on what I heard today, it's hard to imagine a flaw serious enough that it would change my opinion.

Finally, all listening was done with discs today. I still have reservations regarding DLNA control and need to spend more time to see if the going silent in the middle of song problem persists with a different server. My hat is off to Oppo for making such great sounding equipment and for letting people try it in their system before fully committing.

Styln
Edited by Styln - 11/25/12 at 8:18pm

Screen captures of the Android Oppo app. Taken on a Samsung SII.
Only tested a few things. Everything I tested worked. Not sure why you'd use this over the remote in it's present incantation.

Styln

I'm looking forward to trying the async USB connection. Yours is the first review of that feature I've read - thanks!

Styln

The control apps (Android now, iOS in the future) are definitely a work in progress. The two apps that are out now -- the remote control app and the media control app -- are designed within the limitations of what the 93/95 players can support. The remote app WORKS on the 103/105, but it does not yet take advantage of the additional stuff the 103/105 COULD support. So for example you can command Chapter Forward, but you can't get any feedback as to what Chapter is currently playing. The media control app doesn't even work for the 103/105 as for the new players' DLNA Media Renderer functionality supersedes that. (See the Beta work in progress by the eager beavers at XBMC, for example.)

In any event, the apps will pretty much run into a wall of what they can do for the 93/95 given the limits of IP protocol support in those players.

But you can expect FUTURE apps that only work with the NEWER players and are more feature-rich. Indeed, OPPO plans on publishing the IP protocols (they are still being finalized via OPPO's own, in-house app experiments), which means interested 3rd parties would then be able to publish their OWN control apps.
--Bob

My two cents: Player comparisons are fair game in this thread, along with details of how you actually accomplished that -- so folks can make their own assessment of your report.

Debates on the CORRECT approach to take for evaluating players are best reserved for the Audio Theory forum here at AVS. You can always link to posts there that detail any points that need to be made. But the actual back and forth DEBATING those points should be in some other thread over there.

Now there's going to be some cross-posting of course. Nothing wrong with that. But try not to let the discussion here go down the rabbit hole of procedure. Let's stay focussed in THIS thread on the RESULTS.

It's simple. If you are talking about the player -- then post it here. If you are debating the best procedure, then post it there -- with perhaps a link here.
--Bob

Plug the ORB provided USB stick into a USB port on the 105. Then, in Setup > Device Setup > Persistent Storage, select to use the ORB stick for Persistent Storage instead of the Internal Flash.

Then power cycle the player for this settings change to take effect. (You may need to do an Energy Efficient power cycle rather than Quick Start -- this is a hardware change I've not tested to make sure Quick Start picks it up properly.)

ORB BR should now find the attached USB stick and use it. The 105 will also use that stick for other Persistent Storage needs of various Blu-ray discs, but the two uses won't get in each other's way.
--Bob

You've completely confused me. What "software" are you talking about? And what is a 17x17x17?

Did you perhaps post in the wrong thread?
--Bob

Are you asking about running, e.g., an AppleTV through the HDMI Input of the OPPO and thence off to your AVR/Display?

If the Picture Adjustment settings in the OPPO are set to their factory default (0) values, then the video coming in on the HDMI Input will be maintained in terms of video levels and proper format through the processing in the player.

EXCEPTION: Due to a bug in the current Official 1018 and Public Beta 1114 OPPO firmware, set your HDMI Source devices to send YCbCr video format to the OPPO instead of RGB.

So presuming your Display has already been calibrated to render video coming from the OPPO correctly, the problem now boils down to finding the settings in each such Source device (e.g., AppleTV) that will cause it to send its best possible video to the OPPO.

The answers for that will vary according to each Source, and whether you can play content of known quality (e.g., calibration charts) in that Source.

Typically folks will be doing this because they want THE OPPO to do the heavy lifting -- i.e., to do any processing it can be set to do. And so the trick is to minimize the processing already being applied by the Source.

So for example, for a cable TV set top box used as Source, it would be best to set it to output what is usually called "native" resolution -- meaning it sends out the same type of video signal coming in from whatever channel your are currently watching. E.g., 480i for an SD channel, and either 720p or 1080i for an HD channel.

Settings choices like that will be particular to each type of Source device you try to use this way.

For example, you can set the PS3 to output YCbCr 4:4:4, but then you ALSO have to enable its "Super White" setting to keep if from clipping the Blacker than Black and Peak White pixel values in that video output stream. Then there's also the problem that the PS3 can not be set to output 480i for SD-DVD discs. It will output 480p, which means you can't avoid having the PS3 do it's rather odd idea of proper de-interlacing. All in all, it's almost certainly better to just play the darn SD-DVD in the OPPO in the first place.

For arcane details like this, there's nothing for it but to become familiar with each of your Source devices. The owner's thread for each such device here at AVS may prove helpful.
--Bob

Word is that the XBMC crowd is actively working on 103/105 support in their current Beta development. There have even been some teaser posts here suggesting it is far and away the single best thing since the invention of the wheel (even including white wall sides).

I don't know how close they are to wide distribution of that work in progress. There must be some XBMC'ers following this thread, so perhaps they'll post an update.....
--Bob

You worry too much.
--Bob

This has already been discussed in detail several times in the three threads here (103/105 Anticipation, 103 Owner's, and this 105 Owner's) although I don't have a specific post link handy. You might try a Search.

Here's the short form answer:

The Subwoofer output of the multi-channel Analog audio set of outputs is ALWAYS attenuated compared to the other channels. This allows LOUD bass to be carried on that channel without risk of clipping the input of whatever it is cabled to.

As such, volume boost has to be applied to that channel to get it in proper balance with the other channels. Some AVRs will provide a default amount of boost so if the channel is going through an AVR on its way to the Subwoofer, then all or most of the needed boost will already be in place. Some AVRs (e.g., Denon) let you select the amount of boost provided by the AVR as that signal passes through on the way to the Subwoofer.

Otherwise you accomplish the boost by raising the volume knob on the Subwoofer. (If you have OTHER sources feeding that same Subwoofer, then you may also need to REDUCE their output volume trim for the Subwoofer to keep those in balance).

The boost should be applied EXTERNAL to the player -- rather than raising the Subwoofer output trim setting in the player -- unless you are CERTAIN the input you are connecting to has enough input "headroom" that it will not clip for a LOUD bass input signal.

If all speakers in the OPPO are set to either Large or OFF, or if you are playing an SACD disc with DSD-Direct-to-Analog-Conversion engaged, then the amount of boost needed for the Subwoofer output is +10dB. This adjusts for the standard -10dB attenuation that comes from the way the LFE (bass effects) channels are authored.

If any speakers in the OPPO are set to Small (and when you are not playing SACD DSD), then the amount of boost needed for the Subwoofer output is +15dB. The extra +5dB comes from additional attenuation (on top of LFE) applied in the player to make sure there is adequate headroom to carry bass steered into that Subwoofer output from your Small speakers channels, according to your Crossover setting. This doesn't happen for SACD DSD playback, because audio processing (such as Crossover) can not be done to the DSD digital audio signal, and thus all speakers are effectively Large despite your settings.

All of the above ONLY affects the multi-channel Analog outputs. For, e.g., HDMI digital audio, the same sort of stuff is handled automatically by your HDMI-capable sound processor. The speaker configuration settings in the OPPO have no effect on its HDMI audio output.
--Bob

I was just quoting and trying to understand those numbers as well. As far as lifting the veil, I thought the 95 wasn't veiled, I guess it is now compared to 105.

^ It's just shy...
--Bob

One of the other Beta Testers reports that he has tried this scene on his copy of "Avatar", Blu-ray (single disc, 2D version) and ran into no such problem using the 1114 firmware.

The type of problem you describe is a classic example of disc read problems -- i.e., the error recovery in the player is trying to get past something it can't read properly.

As I understand it, the problem went away when you went back to 1018 firmware -- i.e., you actually tried the disc again after rolling back the firmware and no problem. If you've NOT actually tried it with 1018, you should try that now, as your particular copy of that disc may have a manufacturing defect in that Chapter. For Blu-ray, it is possible for such defects to not be visible to the eye. Cleaning the disc MIGHT help, but if it is truly defective, even cleaning won't help. The store, or even the studio, will likely offer an exchange.

Assuming you HAVE tried it with 1018 (and no problem), I think it is highly likely that your player had a temporary problem reading the disc. For example the laser lens may have picked up a piece of dust. The continued spinning of the disc, or opening closing the tray prior to doing the firmware roll-back, may easily have blown that dust off the lens. And thus the proper playback in the 1018 firmware is just coincidence.

As you know, since you've now done it, moving between the Official 1018 firmware and the Public Beta 1114B firmware is easy in both directions.

So I suggest you RE-install 1114B and try again with that disc. If the problem returns in 1114B firmware, then email OPPO Tech Support with the details. Please be sure to include the bar code number from the disc packaging (including the tiny digits at either end) so they can be sure they are checking the precise version of the disc you are using. Also please be sure to tell them you have verified the Chapter plays fine on rolling back to 1018 but fails again after RE-installing 1114B.

It is still possible you have a defective disc, and that 1114B is simply having more trouble reading it than 1018. In that case, OPPO may ask you to loan then your copy of the disc (they'll send it back to you of course), so that the Engineers can see precisely what's happening with that particular copy of the disc in a player with 1114B firmware.
--Bob

Thanks for the detailed analysis.

I did indeed replay the scene in question (and the rest of the movie) after downgrading to the official 1018 firmware. Playback was flawless. Re-upgrading to 1114B and re-testing that scene is a good suggestion, and I'll try that soon.

Isn't the 103 + Ref 5.32 at least as expensive as the 105, if not more?

Thanks Bob,

I'd really appreciate links the beta testing you refer to - took a look on the XBMC development site but could not see anything that obviously jumped out as being Oppo specific.

Additionally, would be keen to hear others - either XBMC or JRiver types jump in here regarding ability of either of these front ends to push native resolution video to the Oppo and allow it to do all the video processing. If I understand the Oppo manual for the 105 it should allow itself to have this content pushed on it but I have no doubt there are a whole range of technical issues that stand in the way of it being a seamless experience.

Dave

Ooops, yeah....wrong thread.

Has to do with video calibration using a 3D Cube LUT system.