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Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 181

post #5401 of 10059
Hello. I'm watch my first Blu ray 3D,Avatar. I am having synch problems with the audio. I've tried adjusting the oppo setting(-10,-20,+10,+20 etc) and I just c ant seen to get it perfect. Any suggestions? Is this a common problem? Thanks
post #5402 of 10059
^ Are you running video direct to the display (two HDMI cables) or through your AVR? If the AVR thinks it is doing video processing it may be adding some audio delay itself "to be helpful" even though you have bypassed it for video.
--Bob
post #5403 of 10059
Hi Bob, yes single HDMI from HDMI 1 into my avr BD input on my marantz sr7005. Do I need to make an adjsment on the AVR? Thanks.
post #5404 of 10059
^ Turn off any Auto Lip Sync feature in the AVR.

Keep in mind that sometimes sync errors are inherent in the content. This is frequently true in films which resort frequently to re-recorded dialog (dubbing). If the problem you are seeing is that sync is varying from scene to scene, then this may very well be what's going on.
--Bob
post #5405 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelly View Post

Hello. I'm watch my first Blu ray 3D,Avatar. I am having synch problems with the audio. I've tried adjusting the oppo setting(-10,-20,+10,+20 etc) and I just c ant seen to get it perfect. Any suggestions? Is this a common problem? Thanks

I may be wrong, but I think it is recommended to re-boot the Oppo after each synch adjustment.
Edited by classicrecording - 5/11/13 at 2:30pm
post #5406 of 10059
Tha
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Turn off any Auto Lip Sync feature in the AVR.

Keep in mind that sometimes sync errors are inherent in the content. This is frequently true in films which resort frequently to re-recorded dialog (dubbing). If the problem you are seeing is that sync is varying from scene to scene, then this may very well be what's going on.
--Bob
Thanks Bob. I'll try that.
post #5407 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Wait a minute .... Are y'all saying that the increased bit rate (Superbit for Bluray) AND increased color gamut to real 36-bit color is NOT worth it(assuming the movie has a compelling story worth being interested in)???confused.gif

You are confusing Deep Color (up to 36 bit per pixel) and xv.YCC color gamut. They are two different things.

They can't put 36 bits per pixel on the disc -- the Blu-ray format won't support the data rate for reading that off the disc.

They CAN use a "color space" which differs from the normal HDTV color space -- different color points with a broader gamut. It will be interesting to see how calibrators handle the compromises necessary to make a display work well with both that and normal REC 709 input.
--Bob

 

Thanks for clarifying this for me Bob...

post #5408 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by madaudio View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

AUDIO Review (Italy, March 2013): Extensive, Audio-focussed Review of the BDP-105EU

http://www.oppo-bluray.co.uk/UserFiles/Docs/PDF/AudioReviewBDP-105EU.pdf

OPPO UK has now posted an English translation of an extensive, audio-focussed review of the BDP-105EU by the Italian magazine AUDIO Review.

Some interesting suggestions here, such as playing standard CDs with upsampling software at 176.4KHz into the Asynchronous USB DAC Input.
--Bob

I got brought up short some months ago by another member when I put down claims that new masterings of older recordings could give true hi-res audio results, as I thought that you could only get hi-res audio from new recordings mastererd in hi-res from the start. I am now more open-minded on the possibility of getting more out of (quality) older analogue master tapes by re-mastering with more modern gear and audio engineers who know what they are doing.

But I am still flumoxed at the idea of upsampling 44.1 16 bit CDs to get a better sound: is that really possible without going back to the original master recording? (i have seen statements in both avs and other forums of people using various DACs to convert the data on standard red-book cds into 96k (or better) sampling resolution and am very sceptical. Even if the originals were mastered in above-redbook standard, if that hi-res data has been filtered out to produce the red-book cd, is it really possible for even the most expensive DAC and smartest software to get it back from a standard CD, without going back to the original master recordings?
I am prepared to be re-educated.

 

If you are listening to a redbook CD (or any media for that matter) via analog outputs on the Oppo 83/83SE, Oppo 93/95 or Oppo 103/105, you ARE listening to Up-Sampled analog music. The original redbook 44.1kHz sampling rate is up-sampled to approx. 37 MHz (for a 192KHz output data rate) in the Cirrus and ESS Sigma Delta dacs used in these players so that a gentler anti-aliasing or reconstruction filter is used at the output of these dacs. The output of these type of dacs would produce a dynamic range and S/N ratio specs equivalent to the best 24-bit PCM based filters, of not better for the ESS dacs in particular.

 

Now that you know your music is up-sampled from the Oppo players, will you still enjoy the analog sound they produce or will you balk and buy a PCM based player? Good luck finding them as the best music players out there either use either Wolfson dacs or ESS dacs, both of which are up-sampling players. Its here to stay and not going away anytime soon as there's no viable alternative out there. All audio DAC technology development in the past 10 years (if not more) has been in the Sigma-Delta up-sampling converters camp. You've probably been enjoying great music from these types of dacs for a long time w/o giving notice to their up-sampling properties.

 

PS

Let's not forget the SACD DSD tech(from Sony in the 80s or 90s) was the first one to use up-sampling and noise-shaping to achieve spectacular results...and we know its the preferred music format out there.


Edited by dmusoke - 5/12/13 at 12:29am
post #5409 of 10059
dmusoke:
Quote:

If you are listening to a redbook CD (or any media for that matter) via analog outputs on the Oppo 83/83SE, Oppo 93/95 or Oppo 103/105, you ARE listening to Up-Sampled analog music. The original redbook 44.1kHz sampling rate is up-sampled to approx. 37 MHz (for a 192KHz output data rate) in the Cirrus and ESS Sigma Delta dacs used in these players so that a gentler anti-aliasing or reconstruction filter is used at the output of these dacs. .......

You are now going (way) beyond my technical savvy on these matters. But when you say the Oppo etc are up-sampling analogue music this doesn't sound right: the music on CD's are in digital format. Or are you saying the digital data is being converted from the disc to analogue and then up-sampled? (And am I arguing way above my savvy level if I mention that most/many?? modern recordings are digital recordings - that is, the original master recording is digital using digital mikes/recording gear, and therefore even the original recording was not analogue?) So if these modern dacs are upsampling, it is really up-sampled digital music, is it not???

If I understand what you (and darkphader) are saying, what you are both describing is the (rough) equivalent of taking a bit-map graphic, blowing it up to individual pixel squares, making one (or two) pixel-sized adjustments or changes that can only be made at this blown-up magnification (upsampled?) level, and then reverting the image back to normal (non-magnified) view.

Given all this, isn't this simply(!!!) getting the best out of the information on the CD: it is not really converting the recording to a higher-level fidelity, than what was originally on the disc. As opposed to going back to the original master recording - assuming it was a high-fidelity level recording - and producing a higher-level end product by redigiitising at a higher sampling rate (and bit-rate) and NOT dumbing it down to red-book level), which is what my main point was.

And no, i do not want to change my music format: the clarity of modern end-product formats (starting with redbook DDD cds, and going on to Dolby Digital or DTS stereo or surround, up to SACD and DVD AUDIO) - and yes, I DO listen to my music via the Oppo's analogue outs (to my NAD T775 HD receiver) and am immensely pleased with it.

As to your (dmusoke) last comment, there is perhaps room for personal preference as regards SACD being the " preferred music format". When it comes to surround music I certainly enjoy a number of SACD discs I own (all classical music) but I also enjoy, perhaps a smidgeon more, a number of DVD Audio discs I own, some produced at 88.6, some at 96 in a mixture of genres, from AIX, Tacet, etc. I was also immensely impressed with the sound quality of a DVD rom from MA Recordings, in 176.4khz 24 bit wav files (stereo, not surround, and I think recorded using digitial streaming at 5.8mhz -fyi La Segunda).

And let's not overlook the beginnings of lossless Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio on blu-ray audio-only discs. Insofar as these will play on any blu-ray player (while this is not true for DVD Audio and SACD discs for any CD or any DVD player) perhaps we will finally get a single, common lossless format for the consumer. (AIX, 2L, NAXOS are some companies already doing this that I know of, and there are no doubt more).

But while being sidetracked by this SACD issue, can anyone comment on my experience that ALL of my so-called 5.0 or 5.1 surround SACDs have either no audible centre channel, or a just barely-audible centre channel (at very high volume)? All of my standard 5.1 dvds, blu-rays, and dvd-audio discs have a centre channel with a volume more or less equivalent to the volume on the two main speakers.

Apologies for the long-winded, off-topic post.
post #5410 of 10059
There is not happen like this, that a CD digital standard sampling format is converted to analogue and then upsampled again inside the player...
The standard (in this case) digital signal sampled at 44,1 Khz is processed inside the DAC chip at higher sampling frequency and filtered in this domain. This is the way the ESS9018 very clever work internally. The analogue signal come out of this DAC and it is send it like this (analogue) out on RCA, multi channels or XLRs.
When about DSD - SACD processing is a little bit different (here is about 2,8Mhz/5,6Mhz sampling frequencies). Mainly, this DAC chip Oppo is equipped with it work by upsampling the signal to be processed, precess this at those high frequencies, and then convert it to analogue.
It may be the same principle with the video digital signals, too in QDEO chip... There is a big benefit of such processing, and the resulting quality it is like everybody knows already....
The studios record and process those recordings at high sampling frequency (except DSD recordings which it may be converted to PCM to be edited/processed, and then converted again to DSD and printed on the SACD support). The studio digital masters at high sampling are then downconverted to 44,1Khz standard and printed on CDs.
Converting back again the information in those 44,1Khz sampling formats to (best) the studio sampling one, it brings benefit to get out (almost) all the original information digitized/coded inside that file. The improvement is obviously, and everybody can do it and do his own appreciations about the result. Some companies even make profit of such converting/upsampling improvements...
There is enough theory about this subject, but here it may be quite out of topic such wide discussion....
Edited by Coris - 5/12/13 at 4:57am
post #5411 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverLitz View Post

You cannot make uniform statements regarding whether balanced offers better sound vs. single ended, other than with long interconnects balanced should be much quieter (common noise rejection). The preference for balanced will depend on the rest of you audio chain and whether the circuitry is truly balanced. Some preamps/amps that have balanced I/O do not have differential circuits inside and in effect are "throwing away" half of the balanced signal, and therefore would not show the benefit of balanced signal. There are some that are very much optimized for balanced signals, and with those you would benefit from the balanced outputs from the BDP105.

I have always used the balanced analog outputs from my Denon A1UDCI to the Classe SSP-800 so I can't say that they sound better than the A1's unbalanced analog outputs. I don't even know if my setup is truly balanced with the A1 and the SSP-800. I have however compared the sound using the HDMI connection and the SSP-800's dacs and both ways sound good but to my ears I prefer the analog route. So my question is if I decide to go with Cambridge and not the Oppo105 would it not be a fair comparison with my A1 since with the Cambridge I would be using their unbalanced analog outs for 2-channel?
Edited by mt14942 - 5/12/13 at 7:42am
post #5412 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

Madaudio. Have you not heard upsampled redbook CDs? Audirvana can turn you 16/44 CDs into 24/192 music that rivals sacd and dvda. I suggest you download the trial version of Audirvana and give it a listen.

This post has generated a lot of debate. I think I can explain this to both sides.

Yes, it is true that Redbook CDs will sound better on the OPPO 105 after converting to a high-resolution flac file, and playing back from hard drive or SSD. I've done this myself, and there is a substantial improvement in the sound. (I used exact audio copy).

We can understand this as follows:

When playing an actual disc, a lot of mechanical vibration is generated, a lot of electrical noise is imposed on the power supplies, and the data may be acquired with substantial jitter. Went playing from hard drive, the OPPO 105 is functioning more like a pure DAC, and the sound quality is substantially improved. By the way, this has been documented by others, including print reviewers.

Modern, well recorded, high-resolution material will sound even better, although if it is played from disc, some of the same noise mechanisms may be at play. Therefore, I expect that the highest performance will be achieved with modern, well recorded, high-resolution material on hard drive.

Eric
post #5413 of 10059
^^^

So, Is there reason to believe that an up-sampled CD rip sounds better than a CD ripped bit for bit?

Using J River, I tried turning on bit-depth and sample rate and there were changes. In the end, I preferred turning off this processing when sending data to the Oppo USB/DAC.

- Rich
Edited by RichB - 5/12/13 at 9:01am
post #5414 of 10059
I'm considering upgrading my 95 to a 105. I'm pleased to see that it dispenses with the fan, but I have two other questions based on current concerns about the 95.

1) Is the display easier to read than on the 95?
2) Does it clip the beginning of SACDs like the 95 does on occasion?

Thanks.
post #5415 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by madaudio View Post

dmusoke:
Quote:

If you are listening to a redbook CD (or any media for that matter) via analog outputs on the Oppo 83/83SE, Oppo 93/95 or Oppo 103/105, you ARE listening to Up-Sampled analog music. The original redbook 44.1kHz sampling rate is up-sampled to approx. 37 MHz (for a 192KHz output data rate) in the Cirrus and ESS Sigma Delta dacs used in these players so that a gentler anti-aliasing or reconstruction filter is used at the output of these dacs. .......

You are now going (way) beyond my technical savvy on these matters. But when you say the Oppo etc are up-sampling analogue music this doesn't sound right: the music on CD's are in digital format. Or are you saying the digital data is being converted from the disc to analogue and then up-sampled? (And am I arguing way above my savvy level if I mention that most/many?? modern recordings are digital recordings - that is, the original master recording is digital using digital mikes/recording gear, and therefore even the original recording was not analogue?) So if these modern dacs are upsampling, it is really up-sampled digital music, is it not???
 

 

MadAudio (and what a name!):

 

When digital audio data enters these Sigma-Delta dac types as PCM data at 44.1kHz, it is up-sampled by the dacs to sampling rate of up to 37MHz for a 192kHz output data rate as I said before. This all happens in the digital domain within the sigma delta modulator within the dac itself. It is then afterwards converted to analog. Maybe the pic below for the high end Wolfson dac helps explain what I'm trying to say...

 

 

Now what I  still don't understand is what some say that the audio bit-depth increases as well, from 16-bit to 24-bits or 32-bits This is nonsense imo, unless the top data bytes are padded with zeros to turn 16-bits to 32-bits.

 

I agree with your other points as to whether SACD and DSD being the preferred formats. I'm obviously wrong as you pointed out other hirez superior audio formats. An oversight on my part indeed.

 

Interesting discussion indeed you've started smile.gif...

post #5416 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwv1080 View Post

I'm considering upgrading my 95 to a 105. I'm pleased to see that it dispenses with the fan, but I have two other questions based on current concerns about the 95.

1) Is the display easier to read than on the 95?
2) Does it clip the beginning of SACDs like the 95 does on occasion?

Thanks.

 

1. Most definitely ...a boon for those of us visually challenged starting at age 40 or so.

 

2. In absence of an HDMI handshake in the beginning, the answer is NO.


Edited by dmusoke - 5/12/13 at 10:35am
post #5417 of 10059
Scanned the thread but couldn't find an answer. Hopefully, this isn't too dumb a question ....

Can you hook-up a 105 using both HDMI out and the analogue stereo outs simultaneously into the same AVR (different AVR inputs though - say BD for HDMI and CD for analogue outs) and easily switch in the 105 to using either the HDMI or analogue outs individually?

I'd like to try the analogue stereo outs for music but keep HDMI for multi-channel Blu-ray viewing, but I don't want to have to be swapping out cables or jumping around a bunch of different settings/menus to do it.

Thanks,
JD
post #5418 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Scanned the thread but couldn't find an answer. Hopefully, this isn't too dumb a question ....

Can you hook-up a 105 using both HDMI out and the analogue stereo outs simultaneously into the same AVR (different AVR inputs though - say BD for HDMI and CD for analogue outs) and easily switch in the 105 to using either the HDMI or analogue outs individually?

I'd like to try the analogue stereo outs for music but keep HDMI for multi-channel Blu-ray viewing, but I don't want to have to be swapping out cables or jumping around a bunch of different settings/menus to do it.

Thanks,
JD

Yes, you can.
post #5419 of 10059
Anyone having a problem with AV Synch? It worked great initially, but lately it requires a frequent reboot of the 105 to get it working again.
post #5420 of 10059
Hoping you guys can settle an argument. It is my understanding that the 105 can act as a digital transport through HDMI 2. Especially, when sending DSD through HDMI 2 to a DSD DAC. Please advise.
post #5421 of 10059
^ The 105 can send DSD over HDMI 2. I'm not sure what else you were lumping into that "digital transport" question, but if that's it, then that's the answer.
--Bob
post #5422 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ The 105 can send DSD over HDMI 2. I'm not sure what else you were lumping into that "digital transport" question, but if that's it, then that's the answer.
--Bob

Bob - Thanks for the quick reply. My question is specific to DSD. Will the Oppo play back in native DSD from HDMI 2 at the full sample rate of 2.8224 MHz. Thank you.
post #5423 of 10059
^ I'm not sure what the standard is for DSD over HDMI, but I believe that's it. For example you can play 2.0 or 5.1 SACD discs as HDMI DSD into an AVR that accepts that as input.
--Bob
post #5424 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by btscott View Post

Anyone having a problem with AV Synch? It worked great initially, but lately it requires a frequent reboot of the 105 to get it working again.

Yep. OPPO is still working on it.
post #5425 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ I'm not sure what the standard is for DSD over HDMI, but I believe that's it. For example you can play 2.0 or 5.1 SACD discs as HDMI DSD into an AVR that accepts that as input.
--Bob

Thank you.
post #5426 of 10059
I have a question about the headphone amplifier that is built into the unit. How does it compare to stand alone headphone amps for those of you that might have both? The BDP-105 vs a mid range headphone amp.

Headphone Amplifier – For a more intimate listening experience, a pair of headphones can be connected directly to the BDP-105’s built-in headphone amplifiers. The headphone amplifier is connected directly to the ESS Sabre32 Reference DAC and offers a unique performance advantage over standalone headphone amplifiers.
post #5427 of 10059
Can the discussion of upsampling and other digital theory be moved out of here?
post #5428 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by SARHENTO View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Scanned the thread but couldn't find an answer. Hopefully, this isn't too dumb a question ....

Can you hook-up a 105 using both HDMI out and the analogue stereo outs simultaneously into the same AVR (different AVR inputs though - say BD for HDMI and CD for analogue outs) and easily switch in the 105 to using either the HDMI or analogue outs individually?

I'd like to try the analogue stereo outs for music but keep HDMI for multi-channel Blu-ray viewing, but I don't want to have to be swapping out cables or jumping around a bunch of different settings/menus to do it.

Thanks,
JD

Yes, you can.

Thanks SARHENTO - I've been checking out the user manual on-line: http://download.oppodigital.com/BDP105/BDP-105_USER_MANUAL_English_v1.6.pdf

Would the easiest way to switch from the HDMI out to the analogue stereo output be to select "Off" in the HDMI Audio settings? Then select "Bitstream" to switch back to HDMI out in the same menu?

This is from the Audio Format Setup section of the manual on page 63:

Audio Format Setup
2. HDMI Audio: Allows you to select the digital audio output format from the HDMI port. The
options are:
􀁸 Auto (default) – The player checks with the device connecting to the HDMI output to
automatically determine which audio format to use.
􀁸 LPCM – Digital audio output via HDMI will be in the multi-channel Linear PCM format. When
this option is selected, compressed audio bit streams will be decoded by the player. This
setting is recommended when connecting the HDMI output directly to a TV or to a receiver
without advanced audio decoding capabilities.
􀁸 Bitstream – Digital audio output via HDMI will be in bitstream format. This option is
recommended when connecting the HDMI output to an A/V receiver or processor that
supports advanced audio decoding, such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.
􀁸 Off – No digital audio output via HDMI.
post #5429 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Thanks SARHENTO - I've been checking out the user manual on-line: http://download.oppodigital.com/BDP105/BDP-105_USER_MANUAL_English_v1.6.pdf

Would the easiest way to switch from the HDMI out to the analogue stereo output be to select "Off" in the HDMI Audio settings? Then select "Bitstream" to switch back to HDMI out in the same menu?

This is from the Audio Format Setup section of the manual on page 63:

Audio Format Setup
2. HDMI Audio: Allows you to select the digital audio output format from the HDMI port. The
options are:
􀁸 Auto (default) – The player checks with the device connecting to the HDMI output to
automatically determine which audio format to use.
􀁸 LPCM – Digital audio output via HDMI will be in the multi-channel Linear PCM format. When
this option is selected, compressed audio bit streams will be decoded by the player. This
setting is recommended when connecting the HDMI output directly to a TV or to a receiver
without advanced audio decoding capabilities.
􀁸 Bitstream – Digital audio output via HDMI will be in bitstream format. This option is
recommended when connecting the HDMI output to an A/V receiver or processor that
supports advanced audio decoding, such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.
􀁸 Off – No digital audio output via HDMI.

You only need to do the switching in your AVR. With Oppo players all outputs are simultaneously active. They do not have to be switched on or off. So, as long as you have the different outputs connected to different inputs on your AVR, you would switch to the appropriate input on the AVR via the AVR's facilities. I would suggest that you try both bitstream and LPCM to your AVR. With bitstream, you AVR will do the decoding, with LPCM, the Oppo will. Then just use the one you prefer. If you have an older AVR, you probably want just LPCM since your AVR may not be able to decode DTS MA or Dolby HD and the Oppo can. When you switch to the other AVR input (CD or Tape In or whatever you have used), you will get the output converted to analog by the Oppo.
post #5430 of 10059
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Thanks SARHENTO - I've been checking out the user manual on-line: http://download.oppodigital.com/BDP105/BDP-105_USER_MANUAL_English_v1.6.pdf

Would the easiest way to switch from the HDMI out to the analogue stereo output be to select "Off" in the HDMI Audio settings? Then select "Bitstream" to switch back to HDMI out in the same menu?

This is from the Audio Format Setup section of the manual on page 63:

Audio Format Setup
2. HDMI Audio: Allows you to select the digital audio output format from the HDMI port. The
options are:
􀁸 Auto (default) – The player checks with the device connecting to the HDMI output to
automatically determine which audio format to use.
􀁸 LPCM – Digital audio output via HDMI will be in the multi-channel Linear PCM format. When
this option is selected, compressed audio bit streams will be decoded by the player. This
setting is recommended when connecting the HDMI output directly to a TV or to a receiver
without advanced audio decoding capabilities.
􀁸 Bitstream – Digital audio output via HDMI will be in bitstream format. This option is
recommended when connecting the HDMI output to an A/V receiver or processor that
supports advanced audio decoding, such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.
􀁸 Off – No digital audio output via HDMI.

You only need to do the switching in your AVR. With Oppo players all outputs are simultaneously active. They do not have to be switched on or off. So, as long as you have the different outputs connected to different inputs on your AVR, you would switch to the appropriate input on the AVR via the AVR's facilities. I would suggest that you try both bitstream and LPCM to your AVR. With bitstream, you AVR will do the decoding, with LPCM, the Oppo will. Then just use the one you prefer. If you have an older AVR, you probably want just LPCM since your AVR may not be able to decode DTS MA or Dolby HD and the Oppo can. When you switch to the other AVR input (CD or Tape In or whatever you have used), you will get the output converted to analog by the Oppo.

OK then, thanks. I'm surprised that Oppo has all the outputs active all the time, but I'm sure they know what they're doing!
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