Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 20

Bob, thanks for the detailed answer. I am using the 5.1 analog outputs directly to a McIntosh C45 (analog pre-amp with multi-channel inputs - no DSP). The side effects you mention are pretty darn serious considering I do play lots of 24/96 FLAC files along with SACD and DVD-A (multi-channel & stereo). I wish Oppo would dedicate a button on the remote to easily cycle through Neo6 Music--Neo6 Cinema--Neo6 Off. The "Audio" button on the remote would be perfect for that purposes when one of the digital inputs is playing.

Some two channel music sounds good in Neo6 mode and some don't. This is something I would turn on/off often. Going through the set-up menu every time is a hassle. Wish there was an easier way.

I got my Oppo yesterday (upgrading from 95) and loving it so far. No chance in hell of returning it! 2-channel music through my computer has gained a whole new life with the superior DAC in the Oppo.

Just curious, why would one one to connect the hdmi from dtv through the oppo instead of going directly to the display? How can this be better...extra cable, more circuitry...yields less resolution.

Thank you Bob for this comment. I understand that different people have different needs for some functions, but what I would like to see is, that it would be possible to configure each input separately. I am using the HDMI IN for my set top box, as all terrestrial TV broadcasting audio is in stereo here where I live. The Oppo gives me two advantages as I see it. First of all I get the 5.1 sounds and secondly I get better video processing. The difference is huge I can tell you. But then I will need to turn off the Neo:6 when I watch movies from Bluray, right. And as HowardV for example has different needs, there is no way to please all consumers at the same time.

As already stated, because some boxes do a terrible job at scaling/deinterlacing, and so the Oppo probably does this better than the cable or DTV box (assuming you have a 1080p display, the signal will have to be scaled to 1080p somewhere in the chain since all channels broadcast in 720p or 1080i, none in 1080p).

Does this actually work? Cable boxes are often among the worst behavers when it comes to HDMI.

I remember trying to connect my cable box to my Anthem D2V via HDMI and I had a lot of problems with HDMI handshaking causing the cable box to go into a rebooting loop when the Anthem was off.

Eventually I gave up and went back to component. I was thinking of trying again when I do a firmware update on my D2V over Christmas break but perhaps I'd be better off using the Oppo if the handshaking works better.

It would be nice to get rid of those bulky component cables.

^ There was a particular brand of cable box that was infamous for exhibiting that constant rebooting failure. With that box there's no hope for it but to avoid using its HDMI output. Fortunately, most cable and satellite boxes don't do that.
--Bob

Thanks for the clarification. If I understand correctly, the question then would be whether my panny vt30 does as good a job as the oppo at scaling the 720p/1080i from the dtv receiver, is that basicly the issue?

Question for the Dish-Network users or Beta testers:

Other than the lip sync issue, have you experienced any other issues when you connect the Dish Network box to Oppo-105 using HDMI and then HDMI to display?

Dish DVRs do not have a "native" output option, so there's little or nothing to be gained from sending that through the Oppo for processing. At present, DirecTV DVRs are the only sat/cable boxes have that option.

2L50SABD TrondheimSolistene DIVERTIMENTI

2L67SABD OLE BULL Violin Concertos

2L73SACD Oslo Kammerkor - STRID

I do not have a DVR. I just have a regular Dish-Network receiver (VIP211K). I'd like to connect it to Oppo for audio decoding and video up-scaling to 1080P and that way I just use one HDMI only, going to TV for everything (BD/TV).

I was wondering if Oppo-105 has any other issues when a Dish network receiver box is connected to it other than the lip-sync issue?

The new release of TrondheimSolistene - SOUVENIR (BD) is a stunning success for anyone with a passing interest in Tchaikovsky or "popular classical" music.

Sigmund Groven & Iver Kleive: HarmOrgan (BD) wins the award for unusual and beautiful music.

Orgelmusikken fra deUSYNLIGE (Hybrid SACD) is the sound track from the movie: "Troubled Water" and is some great organ music. Also features Iver Kleive.

"Flute Mystery" (BD) wins my award for best multichannel recording of a terrific performance space.

You missed the point: The Dish boxes cannot output "native" video resolution, only ONE resolution. So there's no upscaling being done in the Oppo. Likewise they may not output 480i even if you try to force it, only 480p. As for the audio, it's very compressed lossy DD so you're asking the 105 to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

What about the USB input? I installed the driver on my HTPC from Oppo's website.
More on NEO6:

After reading some of the suggestions and bugs on NEO6, I did further testing (I'm using 5.1 analog outputs):

Confirmed that NEO6 (Music and Cinema) will only work when you have 7.1 channels and no downmixing. I have 5.1 channels, but I just enabled the back surround speakers (without really having any speakers there) and NEO6 worked. Only way to enable and disable NEO6 is through the set-up menu. There is no quick way to go back and forth. Problem is that NEO6 makes some CD's better, while others sound worse. Wish there was a way to quickly turn it on/off without having to go through the set-up process.

I couldn't get NEO6 to work on any of the digital inputs (tried coax and USB). It only works on regular CD's. It will also work on 2-channel SACD if it's set to PCM (not Bitstream). I'm bummed that it doesn't work on any digital inputs. I tried the coax input and the USB - both hooked up to my HTPC. No NEO6 on either. Even if I have 7.1 enables and no downmixing. While playing MP3 or FLAC files, it's all 2-channel.

Not sure if the NEO6 not working on the digital inputs is a bug or just designed that way. Or maybe I'm still doing something wrong. I'm using the M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 sound card in my computer which has a coaxial digital output. Can't find any specific surround settings. But this shouldn't matter when I switch back to the USB as the Oppo is acting as my sound card. Maybe I'm missing something?

And Bob, my SACD and Blu-Rays with high-rez audio seem to work fine even with Neo6 turned on. I don't believe it's in 44.1K mode. When Blu-Ray was playing, I hit the "info" on the remote and the transfer rate was about 25Mbps and it stated DTS-MA. Can I do any other checks to see if it's really at 44.1K?

But however lossy the DD sound, isn't still better if it goes through a better DAC? I would imagine it would make a difference. And the OP can just run the HDMI from Dish box direct to TV and use one if the digital inputs on the Oppo for audio from Dish box. Not sure if this would help the lip sync problem or hurt it further.

You did not answer my question.

I'd like to use Oppo-105 as a preamp whether it does anything to the audio and video or not (use one box to connect everything to it).

It lets me connect ONLY ONE HDMI cable to my display which I can use for both BD/DVD and TV.

My question was: "I was wondering if Oppo-105 has any other issues when a Dish network receiver box is connected to it other than the lip-sync issue?"

BTW, I just called the Oppo support and they said. even though Oppo can not upscale the resolution of Dish Network, but it still helps the picture to look a little bit better. Thai is enough for me.

Thanks
Edited by sharok - 11/30/12 at 2:19pm

The point is there are two parameters involved in the design of the Headphone amp and they seem to get lumped together and consequently the baby gets tossed with the bathwater.

The first parameter is Output Power. Oppo claims that to reduce their liability exposure, they need to limit the maximum output power of the headphone output. That is their prerogative.

The second parameter as dmusoke mentions is gain. You can increase the gain while leaving the max output power unchanged. Oppo should not object to increasing the gain since it will not increase the probability of damaging headphones.

The reason more gain is sometimes required is that program material is recorded at different levels. The audio level on Blu-Ray discs varies widely from as loud as a CD to whisper quiet.

So if a user already has to turn the headphone output level up to 90 to get the desired volume in their headphones when playing a CD, even maxing out the level to 100 will not provide sufficient volume on most Blu-Rays. Having additional gain will allow these users to play the Blu-Rays at the same output volumes as the CD. The output power delivered to the headphones will be no more than it was playing the CDs. Raising the gain will not limit the range of headphones that can be used with the 105, in fact it will increase the number of headphones that can be used without increasing the danger to any of them.

To put it in terms everyone understands, increasing gain simply corresponds to changing the pre-amp, not getting a more powerful power amp. The goal is simply to actually use more of the power that is already there.

So the question for Oppo is, can they raise the gain of the headphone amp?

On my "standard" audio system I'd rate the 105 a 10% improvement over the 95. On my "reference" system I'd say the number would be 25%. The more resolving the system the greater the audible difference between various dacs becomes. So if someone is listening to a yamaha receiver and a pair of Cerwin Vega speakers then don't expect to hear a life changing event between the 105 and their existing dac.

In addition, the 105 is not a warm sounding dac meaning if you are looking for that warm fuzzy vintage Thorens type sound you won't find it here. Also you won't get a cold clinical sound like some other dacs. The 105 is possibly more suited to technical listeners than emotional listeners.

I would say the 105 is near perfectly voiced and is "source neutral" meaning it will accurately reflect the quality of the recording it's fed. Personally I prefer a source neutral designed dac letting the chip "do its thing" than one where the designer has imparted his views on how a dac "should" sound.

There was a fellow before who said he couldn't tell the difference between the 105 and a squeezbox. If this is the case then consider a hearing test or look very closely at the rest of your system. Generally domestic speakers irrespective of price sound ordinary to bad with their crossovers filtering a significant amount of musicality away from the listener. I'd suggest the problem doesn't lie with the Oppo.

To reinforce what I said in another post. The Oppo must be burnt in ideally 24/7 for at least a week before commenting on its performance in any detail as the sound changes considerably....
Edited by djkiwi - 11/30/12 at 5:10pm

Re: playback issues with Avatar, Star Trek, and a few others:

I suspect that my playback problems were heat-related. My BDP-105 is located in a wooden TV stand / cabinet that is enclosed on all sides except the front. On the shelf immediately above the 105 was a McCormack DNA-HT1 amplifier (another recent acquisition). Both shelves have 120mm temperature-activated fans at the rear -- but this may have been insufficient to control the heat from the amp and the 105.

Relocating the McCormack has dropped the average temperature at the BDP-105 by 10 degrees, from 87F to 77F as measured with a simple household digital thermometer sitting on top of the 105 (ambient = 68F). I viewed an entire movie last night without the BDP-105 stuttering or locking up. This is the first time that has occurred since install (which admittedly has been only a half-dozen discs, with two of those viewed twice). It's still too early to be 100% certain of victory but I'm hopeful.

I had the same lip sync issue when I connected the ATV's Optical out, to the Oppo, HDMI from ATV still went directly to the Kuro, but I just wanted the Audio to go through the Oppo and there was a lip sync. Oppo is aware of this and they are working on it

Is the Oppo BDP-105 compatible with an ipod connected through the usb input? Currently my ipod is sitting in a Peachtree Audio Idac. I would like the same functionality in my system using the Oppo.

I decided to try the BDP-105 as a pre-amp. With SACDs and Blu-rays everything is great. I then switched to playing 2 channel high-res flacs from a mac via USB, which also sounds great. But something was missing. I quickly figured out that the sub-woofer was no longer outputting music. It dawned on me that my usual pre-amp takes 2 channel stereo and converts it to 2.1. I have looked over this forum, and over the manual. I don't think this is possible with the BDP-105, but I am hoping I am just missing something. Has anyone had luck getting the Oppo to take stereo and output to both the FL/FR and Sub? Thanks

Exactly how do you have the 105 hooked up to your amp and how many speakers are you using? If you're using just the stereo outputs, you need to use the multichannel outputs, tell the Oppo your speaker configuration (2.1, 5.1, 7.1, etc.), make sure your speakers are set to small, and set an appropriate crossover frequency. You can also configure the stereo outputs in setup to be front left/right for the multichannel output so you can take advantage of the better outputs for your front left and right speakers.

Sure. Wire up the multi-channel Analog audio outputs including the Subwoofer. Set the down-mix according to the number of speakers you have wired up. You don't have to change it from 5.1 to Stereo just because you are playing Stereo content. Set LF/RF to "Small" and Subwoofer to "On". Pick a Crossover frequency that's appropriate for your speakers. Be sure the Subwoofer volume is in balance with the other speakers.

NOTE: Changing the down-mix to Stereo will also set the Subwoofer to OFF. So check that and change the Sub back to ON after setting the down-mix.

When you play Stereo content, bass will be steered from LF/RF to Sub according to your Crossover setting. When you play multi-channel content, the Subwoofer will get a mix of the LFE channel (the .1 of 5.1 or 7.1) plus bass steered from "Small " speakers.

Be sure to check your Sub volume level. The Sub channel will need +15dB boost in volume, external to the player, to match the other speaker channels since some of them are set to Small. You accomplish that by raising the volume knob on your Sub. You can check that using the LPCM test tracks from AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray, and an SPL meter.

You can also use the Crossover test on the AIX disc specifically to check how well the transition from LF/RF to Sub is working. It plays a tone into LF that sweeps from very low frequency to above the crossover range. At the lowest frequencies, the sound should be coming just from the Sub (due to the Crossover). At the higher end the sound will be coming just from LF. If everything is set up correctly for speaker volume, and if your choice of Crossover frequency is good, and if your room's bass response is good, then you will hear CONSTANT VOLUME from end to end of that frequency range -- except at the lowest bass end which will be hard to hear.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 11/30/12 at 10:02pm

Nope. But you can hook up your ATV's optical out to the back of Oppo and play your iCloud via the analog out and hear what the Sabre does to the sound. It sounds fantastic.

The dedicated RCA stereo outputs are better than the L & R outputs of the multi-channel??? Why? Aren't they all being processed by the same DAC?

Hi,

I posted on Thursday that I had just discovered that my unit has the audio/video sync issue. I emailed OPPO and they said they are aware of the problem and they are working on it. I emailed the vendor where I bought it and they said OPPO are good guys and they will fix it. I emailed a person on this forum who contributes a lot. I appreciated that he took the time to reply. He said OPPO is working on it but he couldn’t comment further. OPPO thus becomes an example of faith based audio. As far as I understand OPPO isn’t providing details on the cause of the problem, the steps that are being taken to fix it, and frankly the most important item, when it will be fixed. This lack of openness is unacceptable.

Over the years I’ve purchased six units from OPPO including three of the new generation. (2x103 – gifts the users like won’t discover the problem and 1x105). Since both the 103’s and 105’s have this problem that means that 50% of the units I’ve purchased from OPPO don’t work. That means that a key feature that OPPO advertises and includes in their specs. doesn’t work. OPPO and their resellers today are selling units with a serious flaw and they know it has this flaw. Further OPPO won’t give a time when this flaw will be fixed. Still the units are for sale and advertised as having a feature which doesn’t work. I guess, I clearly don’t know, that everyone selling the units figures not that many people will use the features in question and it better to get the sales and aggravate a few people than hold the units until the problem is fixed. If the internal discussions are documented it will make one of those interesting business school cases.

This flaw isn’t a few wavy tiles in Gladiator, it’s whole function; a whole set of inputs, which don’t work. Cheap DAC’s and DVD players sync audio/video. I’ve had or seen numerous AV receivers over the years which synced audio and video. This is a major problem with an issue that just doesn’t appear in the market place. Since this is a failure on something simple, or at least a problem which was solved long ago, it makes me wonder what other surprises are hidden in the unit. Assuming the problem is software related it raises questions about the source of the many pieces of software used in the unit and how the design and testing process was controlled.

I changed the connections on my system back to using an AV receiver and a preamp with the OPPO BDP-105 acting as a Blu-Ray and CD player. I’ve ready spent hours on this issue. The unit works as a player.

The BDP-105 appears to have excellent potential. It’s a heavy solid unit. The following is my guess work but you may find it interesting – or not. From the published pictures it appears OPPO has paid attention to the power supply with a large toroid transformer, and more voltage regulators and capacitors than I can count in the analog section. There appears to be a separate supply for the video with separate windings from the transformer, which is great. It’s under other boards from what I can see. The analog supply appears to use two sets of individual diodes for rectification. If these are plus and minus for the same supply, then depending on the actual configuration (I’m guessing a lot here) it helps reduce grounding problems.

The ESS DAC appears to be an excellent unit. I’m sure lots of you have watched the video of their engineering director on YouTube. I assume OPPO is using National LM4562 op amps which are as good it gets (reference Doug Self). They will drive any preamp or amp input which is likely be to encountered. I don’t know if the headphone outputs are driven directly by op amps or if drivers circuits are used. I don’t use headphones. There are separate DAC’s, iv converters and outputs for the balanced and singled ended stereo outputs and duplicates of the same items for the multi-channel outputs which is the way to do it IMNVHO. The output impedances from the audio are mostly 100 ohms, which is great. The typical, even high quality AV receiver has 1,000 ohm or more outputs and much less output capability. The output impedance forms a circuit with the wiring and input of the next component. With too high an output impedance this circuit can act like a filter with frequency and phase changes. From only looking at the board it appears that it couldn’t be much better designed for obtaining high audio quality. I’m sure the video stuff is well done as well but lots of people make good video stuff. It is nice that dither can be set on the video outputs, which is a good thing to do. I haven’t seen that as a setting before.

The excellent potential is what makes this serious problem so frustrating. I want the unit to work. That this sort of obvious problem exists in production units when it would be so easy to find it testing, and in my opinion likely was, is really unacceptable.

Jeff

By any chance is anyone interested in asking Oppo to add ASIO support into their USB Audio driver? I'm currently using WASAPI in Windows 7 and foobar2000 to stream to the BDP-105 asynchronous USB DAC input, and the sound is pretty good, especially with CD content upsampled to 176.4KHz via a SoX resampler. However, I would like to try using cPlay, which supports ASIO audio devices only.

My experience is that with proper configuration, streaming audio via ASIO has the potential to sound better than with WASAPI, though the difference is arguably not huge. This is based on listening to my Anedio D2 DAC, which uses the same ESS 9018 DAC chip as the BDP-105. Anedio's USB driver supports both ASIO and WASAPI, so I can compare the sound. I would like to see the Oppo driver provide the same support.

By the way, the Oppo USB Audio drivers available on the Oppo website are not properly signed. The .CAT files within the driver file collection are not valid. I hope this can be corrected starting with the next driver release.