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Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 270

post #8071 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post

I disagree here. Software does not work (or in some cases - even install) if a "bit or two" is missing. Checksums and other functions ensure that the firmware update (which is a low level software update) is identical for all of us. It's not like my firmware download is going to be 5 bits lighter than the next guy.

I agree to a (small) point on the Oppo hardware but even then - this stuff is tooled to extremely high precision and while the tops on a solder joint may look different - my Oppo does not have different bits and pieces from the next guy. At least I hope not smile.gif

VP

I take it you have never worked in the electronics field. I have worked in everything from building chips to masked solder machines to pick and place QA to inspecting new CCA builds. Extremely high precision is the goal. Not always the outcome.

Downloading software can be different for each machine. Depending on network to method to EMI. Never heard of having to reboot electronics to get it back on track?
post #8072 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post

Well - here' my dilemma. Stands to reason that every Oppo 105 on the planet is identical. Hence when a firmware update (which is also identical for everyone) is applied to these identical machines - you would think that we would ALL be subject to the same issues. Yet for every guy that suddenly discovers "white noise" bursts - there is 5 more saying "Best ever update". How is this possible?
Well...what function was that person using and are the folks saying "mine is great" using that function? Do you expect to be using that feature? If so, then you have a great reason to avoid this firmware. If not then, while it is still a legit issue, you really have little reason to get overly concerned.

In the case of white noise bursts....that is local to the USB DAC feature. So...what % of 105 users even USE the USB DAC feature?
post #8073 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by LairdWilliams View Post

Well...what function was that person using and are the folks saying "mine is great" using that function? Do you expect to be using that feature? If so, then you have a great reason to avoid this firmware. If not then, while it is still a legit issue, you really have little reason to get overly concerned.

In the case of white noise bursts....that is local to the USB DAC feature. So...what % of 105 users even USE the USB DAC feature?

Considering the DAC feature is unique to the 105 and is a huge draw for computer digital music playback - I would have to say - a LOT of people would be using it.

Why would anyone bother paying a huge premium for the 105 - and then not use the built-in DAC?

I used it as soon as I connected mine up. YMMV

VP
post #8074 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

Downloading software can be different for each machine.

And I take it you have never worked in the software development field.

Every download of this firmware must be identical on everyone's machine or the install checksum will fail and the install is corrupt.

Downloading the Dec 5, 2013 firmware from OPPO cannot be (and is not) "different" for each machine. In this case - the fireware download must be:

121,149,440 bytes

Or you have a corrupt file and it will not install. Simple as that.

VP
post #8075 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post

And I take it you have never worked in the software development field.

Every download of this firmware must be identical on everyone's machine or the install checksum will fail and the install is corrupt.

Downloading the Dec 5, 2013 firmware from OPPO cannot be (and is not) "different" for each machine. In this case - the fireware download must be:

121,149,440 bytes

Or you have a corrupt file and it will not install. Simple as that.

VP

Have you ever watched cable or OTA TV and the video gets pixelated? Supposedly, according to you, the transmitter is perfect and the TV is perfect. Then why isn't the video perfect?

I'm an electronics technician by trade. Granted, I am more hardware than software. However, I do understand software.
post #8076 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post

Considering the DAC feature is unique to the 105 and is a huge draw for computer digital music playback - I would have to say - a LOT of people would be using it.

Why would anyone bother paying a huge premium for the 105 - and then not use the built-in DAC?

I used it as soon as I connected mine up. YMMV

VP
This may come as a shock to you - but you get the benefits of the superior DAC and analog output section on the 105 even if you don't hook a computer to it. If you buy a 105 and fail to hook up a computer, you "Waste" only the USB input path into the DAC ... nothing else. You will find many users here who are not using the USB input to the DAC on the 105 at all. Neither you nor I knows the percentages, and we would be fools to pretend that we do - and to draw conclusions from it.
post #8077 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post

Considering the DAC feature is unique to the 105 and is a huge draw for computer digital music playback - I would have to say - a LOT of people would be using it.

Why would anyone bother paying a huge premium for the 105 - and then not use the built-in DAC?

I used it as soon as I connected mine up. YMMV

VP
Some use the 105's usb dac input, but most don't. I could care less about that interface that can't even play back dsd streams. It's useless for me. I would have still paid the price that I did if the unit did not have a usb dac input. I still get the full benefits of the 105's dacs via attached usb hard drive, or through network protocols such as DLNA or SMB. I could not even fathom having to hook up my pc to my 105 via a usb cable. The beauty of the 105 is its networkability in playing back digital media files!
post #8078 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Some use the 105's usb dac input, but most don't. I could care less about that interface that can't even play back dsd streams. It's useless for me. I would have still paid the price that I did if the unit did not have a usb dac input. I still get the full benefits of the 105's dacs via attached usb hard drive, or through network protocols such as DLNA or SMB. I could not even fathom having to hook up my pc to my 105 via a usb cable. The beauty of the 105 is its networkability in playing back digital media files!

Guess I must travel in a different crowd up here in the great white north. Of the 4 others (and me makes 5) that own a 105 in these parts - we are all rocking the USB DAC capability.

And yes - of course I know that one can totally enjoy the 105 and it's many other premium benefits without every connecting a computer to it.

However - since I find the Oppo interface totally slow, clunky and annoying for navigation - I never bother with using the 105 to actually "play" networked digital files. That's what J.River Media Center excels at and my reason for the the PC (and the USB DAC).

Cheers,

VP
post #8079 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

Have you ever watched cable or OTA TV and the video gets pixelated? Supposedly, according to you, the transmitter is perfect and the TV is perfect. Then why isn't the video perfect? I'm an electronics technician by trade. Granted, I am more hardware than software. However, I do understand software.

We are talking two different things here now - you are talking data "transmission" and no - it will never be perfect.

I am talking data "download" and something like a firmware update has no possibility of ever being "different" or slightly "off".

You either get the entire correct file (to the exact byte) or you don't. If you don't - you do not install.

VP
post #8080 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post

Guess I must travel in a different crowd up here in the great white north. Of the 4 others (and me makes 5) that own a 105 in these parts - we are all rocking the USB DAC capability.

And yes - of course I know that one can totally enjoy the 105 and it's many other premium benefits without every connecting a computer to it.

However - since I find the Oppo interface totally slow, clunky and annoying for navigation - I never bother with using the 105 to actually "play" networked digital files. That's what J.River Media Center excels at and my reason for the the PC (and the USB DAC).

Cheers,

VP
you can even use JRMC to supply media for the DAC in the 105 without ever connecting a computer to the USB port. Not saying which way is "best"...but again, assumptions about how others use the unit are extremely rickety.
post #8081 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by LairdWilliams View Post

You can even use JRMC to supply media for the DAC in the 105 without ever connecting a computer to the USB port.

Really? How?

VP
post #8082 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post

Really? How?

VP
Use DLNA - the Oppo can be used as a DLNA renderer.
post #8083 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post


However - since I find the Oppo interface totally slow, clunky and annoying for navigation - I never bother with using the 105 to actually "play" networked digital files. That's what J.River Media Center excels at and my reason for the the PC (and the USB DAC).

Cheers,

VP
I don't bother either to use the 105's media browser. I use JRMC's DLNA server or my Synology NAS's embedded DLNA server, pushing media files to the 105, without ever having to connect my pc to the 105. Like I said earlier, network protocols (SMB and DLNA) are the way to go with this media player. If you have any dsd files, you won't be able to play them from the usb dac interface. You'll need to use either a network drive (utilizing the CIFS/SMB protocol), a usb hard drive connected to the 105, or a shiny disk.
Edited by DanF8500 - 12/13/13 at 3:51pm
post #8084 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post

We are talking two different things here now - you are talking data "transmission" and no - it will never be perfect.

I am talking data "download" and something like a firmware update has no possibility of ever being "different" or slightly "off".

You either get the entire correct file (to the exact byte) or you don't. If you don't - you do not install.

VP

I give up. You win.
post #8085 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Use DLNA - the Oppo can be used as a DLNA renderer.

Of course! It never dawned on me. Will give this a go this weekend.

Thanks all.

VP
post #8086 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post

Of course! It never dawned on me. Will give this a go this weekend.

Thanks all.

VP
snag yourself a copy of JRemote if you don't have it already and if you have an iPad. JRMC+JRemote+oppo make a very nice combination. Only hickup is lack of gapless playback. If you listen to certain classical or concept albums, this may be a problem for you. Otherwise, it is not a big deal. I have about 1500 albums in my collection, including a couple hundred classical recordings and just about every classic prog concept album known to man, and lack of gapless support in DLNA is a bother for about 6 of them. I just use the shiny disk for those.
post #8087 of 10257
Watching Monster University in 3D and notice a sec audio drop out from time to time, HDMI audio set to Bitstream any way to fix this?,tried doing a search on here and nothing came up,my 93 was more of a problem with this movie!
post #8088 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Zaaaaayyyy View Post

Watching Monster University in 3D and notice a sec audio drop out from time to time, HDMI audio set to Bitstream any way to fix this?,tried doing a search on here and nothing came up,my 93 was more of a problem with this movie!

This is a known problem disc on many models of player.

The solution is to switch to LPCM.

-Bill
post #8089 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

This is a known problem disc on many models of player.

The solution is to switch to LPCM.

-Bill
Thanks Bill I give it a try, not as bad as my 93 I once had,but still noticeable on the 105
post #8090 of 10257
Hi Bob,

I have problems with volume adjustments.

In my setup Oppo does all processing. All speakers in the OPPO are set to LARGE. I am on latest oppo FIRMWARE


for stereo
Oppo 105 -> Emotiva XPA2 ( Balanced) -> Gallo 3.1
  1. speakers in the OPPO are set to LARGE
  2. Volume in oppo set to 30
  3. Oppo Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT
  4. FRONT LEFT/RIGHT speaker gain set to -10 db

at oppo volume 30 stereo is nice and ( before I am drunk)
If I increase oppo volume to 50 its too loud.

in 7.1 setup

Oppo 105 -> Emotiva XPA2 ( Balanced) -> Gallo 3.1 for FR and FL speakers
Oppo 105 -> Denon AVR 2807 (RCA) -> 5 other speakers + Sub
  1. Volume in oppo set to 30 , Oppo Crossover 80, downmix set to 7.1,
  2. FRONT LEFT/RIGHT speaker gain set to -10 db
  3. Denon is in pure direct mode I mean no processing acts like an amp.
  4. Denon Volume is set to -5 mad.gif

Audible at this levels. If I increase oppo volume to 50 volume is nice ( before I am drunk).

If I remove Emotiva from the above. All I have to do is set Denon volume to -35
If I remove Emotiva balanced connectors from the above using RCA connections. I have to set Denon volume to -20
If I connect Emotiva balanced connectors. I have to set Denon volume to -5

I don't want to change the volume per setup ( stereo vs 7.1 ). ( there is no automatic setup in oppo for this kind of configuration).
But why there is such a disparity in volume levels?confused.gif
I read some people are using balanced XLR cables with -20dB attenuators because XLR outputs are the standard +6dB hotter than the RCA outputs.
Please shed some light on my ignorance.
post #8091 of 10257
^ You have different amps with different input sensitivities, and your 105's analog output gain is different between its balanced and unbalanced outputs. Your different brand of speakers probably have different db sensitivities also. All these differences in hardware explains why you have to adjust your volume levels on your 105 and Denon between your stereo and multi-channel configurations. No secrets. You pretty much explained it yourself. A five channel amp (Parasound Halo 5.1) would probably solve your volume disparity. Then you would only have one volume to adjust (the 105's).
Edited by DanF8500 - 12/13/13 at 6:51pm
post #8092 of 10257
You may have noticed that with the new firmware the YouTube application has changed. Among other things you can no longer use an external keyboard to print in the search function. I have been using a miniature wireless keyboard to do that and it was very convenient. I wrote to Oppo and the response was:

"Unfortunately YouTube Leanback has switched from JAVA to HTML 5. This means that we have lost the ability to accept keyboard commands for the majority of keys. We have informed Google that this change to HTML 5 has rendered keyboards useless, and we hope that they will allow for extra HTML code to be created to allow the use of keyboards once again with our players."

The keyboard will still work the search function in NetFlix.

In any event you can now run the YouTube application from your smart phone.
post #8093 of 10257
Thanks for the reply.

But if I remove emotiva I am only left with Denon ( as you said one amp like parasound) and that plays well at volume level -35. It sounds nice with stereo and 7.1 I don't need to adjust Oppo volume.
That's where my problem is why I have to adjust at two places for each setup?
post #8094 of 10257
I know, with my setup, whichever source I am using, it has a different volume setting. Cable TV is at 30, music is 40, Blu-ray is at 70 and DVD is at 80.
post #8095 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydreds View Post

Thanks for the reply.

But if I remove emotiva I am only left with Denon ( as you said one amp like parasound) and that plays well at volume level -35. It sounds nice with stereo and 7.1 I don't need to adjust Oppo volume.
That's where my problem is why I have to adjust at two places for each setup?
Even with just your Denon in the audio chain, your analog signal is passing through 2 preamp stages (105 and Denon). There is no way for you to completely bypass your Denon's preamp stage (ecen in Pure Direct mode), so you are still stuck with this dilemma. Also, when you remove your Emotiva, you now have all rca connections....before you had a combination of rca and xlt, which have different output gain stages on the 105. Have you tried just fixing the volume of the 105 at 100, and adjusting your Denon volume only when you have the one amp setup?
post #8096 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by LairdWilliams View Post

snag yourself a copy of JRemote if you don't have it already and if you have an iPad. JRMC+JRemote+oppo make a very nice combination. Only hickup is lack of gapless playback. If you listen to certain classical or concept albums, this may be a problem for you. Otherwise, it is not a big deal. I have about 1500 albums in my collection, including a couple hundred classical recordings and just about every classic prog concept album known to man, and lack of gapless support in DLNA is a bother for about 6 of them. I just use the shiny disk for those.

Wow! I gave this a whirl last night and it's unbelievable. iPad, hot cup o tea and my whole library in my hands!

FYI - I when for the firmware update and it's all good here smile.gif

Cheers!

VP
post #8097 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post

Wow! I gave this a whirl last night and it's unbelievable. iPad, hot cup o tea and my whole library in my hands!

FYI - I when for the firmware update and it's all good here smile.gif

Cheers!

VP
Glad you got a little satisfaction on at least this dimension of things. Welcome to the dark side ;-)
post #8098 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydreds View Post

Hi Bob,

I have problems with volume adjustments.

In my setup Oppo does all processing. All speakers in the OPPO are set to LARGE. I am on latest oppo FIRMWARE


for stereo
Oppo 105 -> Emotiva XPA2 ( Balanced) -> Gallo 3.1
  1. speakers in the OPPO are set to LARGE
  2. Volume in oppo set to 30
  3. Oppo Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT
  4. FRONT LEFT/RIGHT speaker gain set to -10 db

at oppo volume 30 stereo is nice and ( before I am drunk)
If I increase oppo volume to 50 its too loud.

in 7.1 setup

Oppo 105 -> Emotiva XPA2 ( Balanced) -> Gallo 3.1 for FR and FL speakers
Oppo 105 -> Denon AVR 2807 (RCA) -> 5 other speakers + Sub
  1. Volume in oppo set to 30 , Oppo Crossover 80, downmix set to 7.1,
  2. FRONT LEFT/RIGHT speaker gain set to -10 db
  3. Denon is in pure direct mode I mean no processing acts like an amp.
  4. Denon Volume is set to -5 mad.gif

Audible at this levels. If I increase oppo volume to 50 volume is nice ( before I am drunk).

If I remove Emotiva from the above. All I have to do is set Denon volume to -35
If I remove Emotiva balanced connectors from the above using RCA connections. I have to set Denon volume to -20
If I connect Emotiva balanced connectors. I have to set Denon volume to -5

I don't want to change the volume per setup ( stereo vs 7.1 ). ( there is no automatic setup in oppo for this kind of configuration).
But why there is such a disparity in volume levels?confused.gif
I read some people are using balanced XLR cables with -20dB attenuators because XLR outputs are the standard +6dB hotter than the RCA outputs.
Please shed some light on my ignorance.

How are you testing these "I have to set the volume" answers? You should be using a calibration disc and checking levels for individual speakers to make sure you are not being confused by something in your setup which is still causing either down-mix or surround sound expansion of fewer channels into more speakers.

You should also be using a Sound Pressure Level (SPL) Meter, rather than trying to do this by ear. Everyone uses the inexpensive, digital readout SPL Meter sold by Radio Shack. Hold it at arm's length at the primary seating position, pointing straight up with the tip at seated ear height. Set it to "Slow" response, and "C" weighting. 70-75dB is a good volume level to use for testing -- loud enough to get good readings and not too loud to be annoying while doing all this.

When trying to mix RCA and XLR connections, you will need to compensate for XLR being +6dB hotter than RCA (just the way XLR works). Obviously you are also going to have to deal with the fact that two different amps have two different gains.

I'm afraid I can't make sense of what you are reporting, so the most likely thing seems to be you've gotten yourself confused in how you are testing this. Start with just the Denon and just RCA connections. Since you want to use the Dedicated Stereo Analog outputs in lieu of the normal LF/RF pair from the multi-channel Analog connections, set Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT and do not cable the normal LF/RF jacks from the multi-channel set. The RCA from the Dedicated Stereo RCA outputs of the OPPO should go to the LF/RF inputs of the multi-channel connections on your Denon. Now use a calibration disc to balance the levels: Set the Denon to whatever volume you want to leave it at. Set Volume low on the OPPO and start with all the OPPO speaker trims at 0dB. Raise Volume to a level suitable for testing and adjust the volume trims in the OPPO for each speaker until they now match.

Now still hooked up that way -- just the Denon and just RCAs -- compare stereo vs. multi-channel content. If you use the AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray, it has LPCM test tracks for 2.0, 5.1, and 7.1 channels. You should find there is no difference in levels between these if you have everything set up correctly.

ONLY NOW should you try some real content discs -- stereo vs. multi-channel. You already know from the calibration disc that the hardware is producing equal levels, so if you find a level difference with real content discs you now know that this must be due to different recording levels on the discs themselves.

Next pull the RCA LF/RF pair from the Denon and connect to the other amp. Don't make any other changes except to lower main Volume a lot on the OPPO. Now going back to the calibration disc, raise OPPO Volume until the LF/RF levels match what you were using for testing above. If this new OPPO Volume level is lower than what you ended up using above, that simply means the 2nd amp has more gain. And *THAT* means you now need to ALSO raise the Volume on the Denon so that the other channels are matched. And vice versa if the new OPPO Volume level is higher. So leave the OPPO Volume at this new level that produces the chosen test level (from above) for LF/RF speakers, and now adjust the Denon volume in the opposite direction so that the other speakers are matched to the LF/RF levels again -- again, using the calibration disc.

Once done, you now have a new OPPO Volume level that works well with the 2nd amp for LF/RF, and you have adjusted the Denon volume level so that the other speaker channels are back at the matching level again (compensating for that change of OPPO Volume level). Again you are doing all this with the main Volume adjustments -- NOT the speaker volume trims in the OPPO. Leave the Volume trims as you set them originally above. Also note that if you are running the Subwoofer output of the OPPO directly to the Sub -- instead of through the Denon -- then the compensating volume adjustment (same thing you did on the Denon) will have to be made using the Sub's own volume knob instead. And again this is all with RCA connections.

Once again, still with just RCA, check some real stereo and multi-channel content. Just as above, the only volume differences you should hear now are differences that are inherent in the way the different discs were recorded.

Finally remove the RCA connections from the Dedicated L/R Analog outputs of the OPPO (and from the 2nd amp where they are now connected), and replace with the balanced connections.

Turn OPPO main Volume way low again, check the calibration disc again for LF/RF level, and raise OPPO volume until you get to the test level originally selected way up above. The XLR connections are twice the voltage (+6dB hotter), so you would expect the OPPO 105 Volume control to now have to be 12 steps lower (0.5dB per step in the OPPO 105). HOWEVER, the XLR inputs of your 2nd amp may already have a built in 6dB compensation just for this. So the other possibility is that the OPPO Volume you reach now will match what you used with the RCA cables to the 2nd amp.

If the OPPO Volume level you reach now is different from what you had with RCA cables to the 2nd amp, then ONCE AGAIN you will now need to make a compensating adjustment -- in the opposite direction -- on the Denon volume to get the other speaker channels matched again. (And with the Sub's volume knob if it is directly wired from the OPPO.) And again you are doing this with main Volume adjustments -- NOT with speaker volume trims.

And once again, having done this, the 2.0, 5.1, an 7.1 LPCM test tracks from the AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray should all match in level.

And once again, when you now play real content discs, the only volume variation you should hear is what's inherent in the way each disc as been recorded.

You can use OPPO main Volume to adjust volume level up and down. You must NOT change the volume on the Denon (or the Sub's volume knob) as that will throw those channels out of balance with the fixed volume LF/RF channels running through the 2nd amp.

Suppose after all this you discover the final Volume setting you ended up with for the Denon is inconvenient (say because you are also running other sources through the Denon. Then simply do the math and determine the difference between the originally desired, convenient Denon setting and what you end up with. Let's say what you ended up with on the Denon is 10 steps too low. You can fix this by raising the Denon Volume 10 steps, but you must NOT try to compensate by lowering the OPPO main Volume! Why? Because that will leave the other speaker channels out of balance (too loud) compared to the LF/RF channels running through the 2nd amp. INSTEAD what you do is modify the OPPO speaker Volume Trim values for LF/RF in the SAME direction as the change you made in Volume on the Denon. I don't know how the Denon knob is marked, so 10 steps of Denon Volume may be any amount of dB. So again you can use the calibration disc to get the right answer here. Now having done this you will have raised volume equally on ALL channels -- they are in balance again -- and ended up with the Denon main Volume at your desired, convenient setting. But of course you will NOW need to LOWER OPPO main volume to get the listening level -- for all channels -- back to where it was before.

Confused yet? Analog setups are not for the faint of heart. Think of it as a character builder.

And to think, you haven't even started to tackle the issue of picking the "best" Crossover frequency! biggrin.gif
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 12/15/13 at 7:39am
post #8099 of 10257
^ Hi Bob:

If all I care about is setting the channel Trim levels for my Oppo 105 I just need the Sound meter, right? I don't need the calibration disc, right? Can I just use the test tones from the Oppo? All channels are set to Large. I'm connecting my 105 analog outs to a Parasound P7 (no processing in the P7) in a 5.1 configuration.
Edited by Process53 - 12/14/13 at 11:25am
post #8100 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Process53 View Post

^ Hi Bob:

If all I care about is setting the channel Trim levels for my Oppo 105 I just need the Sound meter, right? I don't need the calibration disc, right? Can I just use the test tones from the Oppo? All channels are set to Large. I'm connecting my 105 analog outs to a Parasound P7 (no processing in the P7) in a 5.1 configuration.

I usually tell people to invest in the calibration disc because then they can check the entire setup including LPCM vs. Bitstream settings, Secondary Audio, Crossover, and etc. I don't know of any problem using the built-in test tones, but I've not really gone looking for problems. I tend to think of the built in test tones as more a method to verify the audio is coming out of the correct speakers, and all speakers are live, but I know OPPO has put effort into making them "correct" for level calibration, too.

Perhaps someone here who has tried it both ways -- built in tones and AIX disc's LPCM test tracks -- can comment.
--Bob
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