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Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 32

post #931 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

Oh well, the sound still lags the video but not as much I think after fiirmware update. If I use HDMI 2 the sync is in time, but then the HDMI 1 outlet is recommended for best video or does it even matter? I can't say I see a difference, but didn't really try to compare. To explain again, this lip sync issue only happens when using HDMI 1 to tv and analog audio out to audio system.

confused.gif Just switched the TV connection back to HDMI 1 and the lip sync is in time now, hopfully it fixed itself for good.
post #932 of 10257
Quote from DMUSOKE, post # 941 above:

'I have now come to the conclusion after much research this weekend that using the DSD Direct-to-Analog option is not a wise one for your HT system. Simply look at the high energy ultra-sonics noise DSD generates at 20kHz and beyond, which is NOT related to your music at all. The noise shape shown below is there, always constant regardless of the music off the SACD."



Members of AVS Forum are welcome to reproduce graphs from our bench tests, but you MUST include a statement to the effect that they are from our magazine, Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, and include a link to the page where you found the graphs, in this case:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/universal-players-reviews/oppo-bdp-105-universal-player/page-4-on-the-bench.html



John E. Johnson, Jr.
Editor-in-Chief
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com
post #933 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by le-penseur View Post

. . . .

Secondly, I'm curious about why the display always shows that the track type is "SACD PCM" for all SACD playback, regardless of whether the SACD output has been set to "DSD" or "PCM" in Audio Format Setup.  Shouldn't it show "SACD DSD" if direct DSD output has been chosen (I'm not using the HDMI output, just direct analog outputs), or is direct DSD (before analog conversion) not working in my player?  BTW, I can honestly not make out any audible difference between the two settings:rolleyes: .

Finally, I've not been able to figure out how to switch to the CD layer of a Hybrid SACD disc (that was correctly recognized as a SACD biggrin.gif ).  The Audio button just toggles between the stereo and multi-channel SACD tracks (according to the display), even with SACD Priority set to "CD mode".  I couldn't find anything in the manual that covered this; does anyone know how to do this?  TIA.

When playing an SACD, the player must be able to use DSD for *BOTH* Analog AND HDMI or it has to do PCM for both. What's blocking you from getting DSD engaged is that you have HDMI hooked up for audio output to a device that can't accept HDMI DSD (as discovered during the HDMI handshake). Probably your Display. One way to get around that is to set HDMI Audio OFF, which you can do on the fly (while playing the disc). Just leave SACD Output DSD set, and toggle HDMI Audio between OFF and whatever else you were using (LPCM or Bitstream) to change whether DSD is in use. Switching between DSD and PCM while an SACD is playing will cause the current track to restart.

You can tell you have DSD in effect by looking at the on-screen track type info displayed during SACD playback (as you have discovered). Or, on the Front Panel display, if SACD is lit and PCM is *NOT* lit, then DSD is in effect.

The CD layer on hybrid SACD discs is there for compatibility with traditional CD players. There's no point in playing it, except for testing purposes, since the OPPO can play the SACD layers which are the "real" content on the disc.. Nevertheless, if you want to play the CD layer from a hybrid SACD disc, STOP the disc, and change Setup > Playback Setup > SACD Priority to CD MODE, then reload the hybrid disc. It will now be loaded as a CD.
--Bob
post #934 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

I got an PNY 8GB flash drive, this was the right format FAT32. At first I forgot to set the computer to download to the flash drive and had to download again. Very slow process with dail-up took over 10 hours to download the firware file.

The upgrade fixed the HDMI 1 and Directv lip sync issue I had. Thanks for the help!

With that long of a download, you might want to get to know the fine folks at OPPO Tech Support who can mail you a burned-disc with the desired firmware install already on it.

By the way, if you do the download again, it doesn't matter that you've set it to download to your regular computer hard drive. You can just copy the downloaded file to the USB stick after the download finishes.
--Bob
post #935 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

In any event I have a question, is the latest firmware installed on shipping 105's from Oppo?
I'm looking to replace my 95 that was stolen.

Players ship from OPPO with the latest "Official" firmware installed -- or, at a firmware transition point, with a firmware install disc included so you can do the update first thing without needing to get your network connection going beforehand.

OPPO does not ship players with Public Beta firmware installed.
--Bob
post #936 of 10257
Logitech Harmony - Apple TV Sequencing

If there is anyone who has the Apple TV plugged into the BDP-105 and is using the Logitech Harmony for remote control can you let me know what you have for sequencing. This would be via an Activity called Apple TV that powers on the equipment (e.g. the BDP105, the AVR, the TV, and then selects the Apple TV input) or switches from another already running activity. I know how to pass it the Input 3 option which is the back HDMI input (which is what I am using) but for some reason I haven't been able to get the sequencing right including adding lots of pauses ;-)

Thanks in advance. Cheers.

Tony
post #937 of 10257
^ The usual Rule of Thumb is to power on HDMI devices in reverse order of the data flow. I.e., power on the display first, wait, then the processor (the OPPO in this case), wait, then the Source.

The thing to do is to get out the ORIGINAL product remotes and make sure it works that way -- with longish pauses between each step. That will show that it CAN be made to work. Then you just need to incorporate the answer you find into your Harmony setup. For each activity you can control the order in which devices turn on (for the ones that are not already on) and you can control the delay AFTER power-on is sent to a device. But note that the power-on delay just keeps commands from being sent to THAT device. Other devices that have pending commands will get them even as the power on delay is happening for a device just turned on. This is the usual problem. So you may have a long power on delay for your TV, but even while that timer is running down, the power on and the Input selector commands will be sent to the OPPO. Which means the OPPO may initiate the handshake with the Display or the AppleTV before they have finished powering up. This is why you design your scheme by FIRST testing with the original remotes, and THEN figure out how to get the Harmony pauses to do the same thing.

There's a whole forum here for programmable remotes where the Harmony experts hang out.
--Bob
post #938 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ The usual Rule of Thumb is to power on HDMI devices in reverse order of the data flow. I.e., power on the display first, wait, then the processor (the OPPO in this case), wait, then the Source.
The thing to do is to get out the ORIGINAL product remotes and make sure it works that way -- with longish pauses between each step. That will show that it CAN be made to work.
--Bob

Thanks Bob.

I have been able to get it to work completely with just the Logitech Harmony etc. by doing as you mentioned. The problem is that it doesn't work when stored as an end-to-end activity. That's the frustrating part. All other functions with the BDP105 and the Harmony work perfectly... bizarre.

Cheers.

Tony
post #939 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimshowalter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

The ultrasonics signals are easily passed on to your pre-amp & pre-pro due to their high input bandwidth sections. They are then passed on to your amplifier and amplified as well for most amps have full power bandwidth specs well within the ultrasonics frequencies. These amplified signals are passed  on to speakers tweeters which HATE producing constant high energy noise. Who knows what the short term and long term effects this energy would do to your speaker system.

The two graphs look almost the same out to 40k. How many amplifiers and speakers actually reproduce above 40k, or for that matter above 30k?

You can reproduce ultrasonics, but you have to work at it. For example, by adding an ultra-tweeter.

Ironically, some people go out of their way to add ultra-tweeters, which apparently will be used to reproduce almost nothing but noise.

Some high-end amps have power bandwidths up to 100kHz or more. I;m talking about both solid-state and tube amplifiers. So, if it rated to produce 300W at 1kHz in 8 ohms, it will produce 150W at 100kHz into the same load, assuming its specs are correct. True though that these amps may be few in number.

 

Maybe ultra tweeters would be great for non SACD sources. I was looking at the frequency spectrum of the clash of a cymbals. 40% of its energy (or more) is above 20kHz!!! A trumpet is still strong at 100kHz(!). Look at 1st graph of this nice article done at Caltech called "There's life above 20kHz...A Survey of Musical Instrument Spectra to 102.4 KHz" at http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm... If we used hirez non-SACD sources with the ultra-tweeter you talked about, then we'd be in businessrolleyes.gif!

post #940 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secrets View Post

Quote from DMUSOKE, post # 941 above:

'I have now come to the conclusion after much research this weekend that using the DSD Direct-to-Analog option is not a wise one for your HT system. Simply look at the high energy ultra-sonics noise DSD generates at 20kHz and beyond, which is NOT related to your music at all. The noise shape shown below is there, always constant regardless of the music off the SACD."



Members of AVS Forum are welcome to reproduce graphs from our bench tests, but you MUST include a statement to the effect that they are from our magazine, Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, and include a link to the page where you found the graphs, in this case:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/universal-players-reviews/oppo-bdp-105-universal-player/page-4-on-the-bench.html



John E. Johnson, Jr.
Editor-in-Chief
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com

 

Ofcourse Mr. Johnson ...my apologies indeed. It was a gross oversight on my part as i assumed that the well informed readers on AVS knew the plots were from your review at Secrets. I have amended my original post to reflect the origins of these graphs.

 

Great job btw on the review! You sure teased us along by posting new data day-by-day...

post #941 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

Thanks Bob.

I have been able to get it to work completely with just the Logitech Harmony etc. by doing as you mentioned. The problem is that it doesn't work when stored as an end-to-end activity. That's the frustrating part. All other functions with the BDP105 and the Harmony work perfectly... bizarre.

Cheers.

Tony

It's likely that commands are being sent to the various devices in an order different from what you think. Again, delays assigned for device A don't keep pending commands from being sent to device B. The Harmony tries to "optimize" the command order to get them all sent in the minimum time without violating the delays assigned to each device.

Post what you've tried in the Harmony thread (programmable remotes forum here), and folks should be able to help you bend it to your will.
--Bob
post #942 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

You can define playlists but they are not persistent when the player is powered off.
I believe the process is described in the online manual.
-Bill
I'm baffled by your response.
I've looked through the online manual as well as the manual that came with my BDP-105 but didn't encounter anything about playlists.
Is this in the Beta firmware?
post #943 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Dmusoke,
I don't believe you have interpreted those SACD charts correctly.

When DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion is in effect, a 50KHz filter is applied (in the DAC) to trim the high ultrasonics which are screwed up by DSD quantization noise magnified up there by SACD Noise Shaping. But since that chart doesn't show above 50KHz you don't see it!

When LPCM is in use, the intentional rate limit to 88.2KHz discards frequencies above 44.1KHz due to the math governing how digital sampling works. Thus you DO see the attenuation kicking in before the LPCM chart tops out at 50KHz. There is no 50KHz filter. It just happens automagically due to the sampling rate.

The real problem in noise floor is higher up, and *BOTH* methods of SACD playback on the Analog outs are designed to eliminate that.

My point being, when using the OPPO's Analog outs, your reason to avoid DSD does not hold. The ultrasonics get trimmed off that way too.
--Bob

 

Bob:

 

You are correct. The SACD filter is simply too shallow at 50kHz to show any significant attenuation at that frequency as its only -3dB down at that point. The specs demand a 27dB/Octave roll-off so the filter's effect won't be seen if the plots only stop at 50KHz. We'd have to examine frequencies up to 1/2 the DSD sampling rate of 2.8MHz or about 1.4MHz to see how well that noise is attenuated.

 

But i fail to understand your statement that these ultrasonics from 20kHz and beyond are completely eliminated on the analog outputs. I hope i didn't mischaracterize what you said here but we'd still have significant noise as shown in the DSD plots from 20-to-50+ kHz region until the SACD filter kicks in.

 

These are the ultrasonics i was talking about as clearly shown the analog spectral plots. Perhaps i should have made that clear from the start and that i wasn't talking about the noise up to 1/2 the DSD sampling rate, which as said earlier is eliminated by the SACD and LPCM filters.

 

Interesting pic below of a 10kHz square wave reproduced by LPCM process sampled at 192kHz versus DSD process as seen on a high bandwidth analog scope (click to zoom -in). One clearly see's the effect of the ultra-sonic noise on the DSD-Analog square wave. A 10 kHz square wave consists of sine waves components at 10k, 30k, 50k, 70k, 90k...etc. One can easily see that the 30k ,50k, 70k and possibly 90kHz components are injected with the DSD ultrasonic noise to produce the noisy square wave.

400  400

Very fun and easy to read details found at http://www.craigmandigital.com/education/PCM_vs_DSD.aspx

 

- David

 

PS

Sorry if this is turning into an Audio Theory session ...  i was just shocked at the history and compromises Sony and others made to sell the SACD format to the general public.


Edited by dmusoke - 12/10/12 at 10:51am
post #944 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdav View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

You can define playlists but they are not persistent when the player is powered off.
I believe the process is described in the online manual.
-Bill
I'm baffled by your response.
I've looked through the online manual as well as the manual that came with my BDP-105 but didn't encounter anything about playlists.
Is this in the Beta firmware?

You're right, I'm not seeing this in the -103 manual.

With the -83 and -93 you could press the GREEN button and add a track to a temporary playlist. On the -103/-105 the only color button that seems to work in the browser is BLUE for random/shuffle (which like REPEAT, can also be accessed through the Options menu).

-Bill
Edited by wmcclain - 12/10/12 at 11:20am
post #945 of 10257
Dmusoke,
My point is that the DSD and PCM methods of SACD Analog playback do the same thing, just accomplished differently. The real problem is above 50 KHz.

The chart is confusing the issue because the DSD method hasn't kicked in yet. (And obviously isn't being applied at all in your latest scope photos -- which don't reflect output from the OPPO.)

I.E., this is not a reason to prefer PCM over DSD for SACD Analog playback from the OPPO.
--Bob
post #946 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThousandThrills View Post

I don't care if this will sound bad but what a crappy service from solutionsav.ca in Canada....I'm so disappointed...they expected their stock to arrive yesterday and my account has not been updated even if I paid them...no answer to emails and their phone line is just to take voice mail and it says it's faster by email to get a response...Onlybestrated has them in stock with free shipping as well, too bad I can't cancel so far to get it by Friday. I thought this was the most trustful place in Canada to get it, not interested in paying 2 or 300 $ more in the US.
Oppo needs a distributor in Quebec even if that means we'll have to pay more tax.
....

Quebec doesn't need a distributor like those two.
I wasn't comfortable ordering from solutionsav.ca so I went with onlybestrated.com.
If it's any consolation, an "F" for their customer service would be somehow too generous. They actually have the gall to claim "superior customer service" at the top of their web page.
Well, I'm sure I could get comparable service on Pluto.
OnlyBestRated -- onlyfrustrated is more like it -- tries to sweeten the deal by offering stuff like added warranty and a free copy of Spears & Munsil.
See for yourself http://www.onlybestrated.com/bluray-and-dvd-c-21.html
Their site claimed the player was in stock but as soon as I ordered it I got an email stating the item had been back ordered. Another ten minutes go by and the item was shipped.
(OK Wierd but I couldn't complain.)
I got the player the day after I ordered, so I'll give "them" credit for fast shipping. But that's it; it wasn't properly boxed and none of the freebies were included.
Phone only goes to voice mail, regardless of "department". Email probably goes directly to the Spam folder. Or worse. I examined one of the mailto links in an email from them.
Although on the surface it read "sales@onlybestrated.com" the actual address was to "magento@vaurien.com" (Vaux rien in French means worthless).
So, you know what they think of their customers.
Another gem: they offer free shipping but they give you the option to spend $35 on the very same ground service. biggrin.gif
In hindsight, paying extra and buying from Crutchfield, Amazon or OppoDigital doesn't sound so bad after all.
Buyer Beware, you can't say you weren't warned!
post #947 of 10257
A minor note regarding in turn-on order, or sequence. DVRs, in my case a TiVo, are always on. The only way to turn off my TiVo is to unplug it. This is because it is continually receiving tv guide downloads. BTW last time I checked a few days ago Logitech/Harmony has not added the 105 to its equipment list yet. I used programming download for the 103 for my 105.
post #948 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThousandThrills View Post

Yeah the hype, the hype has let me down! you know wink.gif I wouldn't be that disappointed if onlybestrated had the same problem which is also in Ontario but they are able to ship it like right now and they were the last to annouce the 103...they even had the 93 on their main page as the new Oppo until a few days ago...that's why I went with the other company.

Any time I've dealt with Crutchfield, I've received gold service, in every respect.

I sensed that SolutionsAV was not at that end of the spectrum but I guess in my eagerness my good sense was not working this time around.
It wouldn't surprise me if these two operations were owned by the same person(s).

When I came across the names of these two distributors on an OppoDigital web page I mistakenly took that as a stamp of approval.
It would have helped if OppoDigital had, at least, included a disclaimer.
post #949 of 10257
"I replayed the Watchmen disc with the same effect. It appears that the dialogue audio is slightly ahead of video.Very strange because I do not have this problem on other Blu ray discs? They seem to play without any timing issue with dialogue. I must say that I am very impressed with the analog XLR outs and listening to CD's."



Update

The timing issue has been corrected with the Watchmen disc after uploading the latest Public Beta 1205B firmware update.There is still a very slight delay but the movie is watchable now! Thank you Oppo.
post #950 of 10257
I cracked open a copy of "The Descendants" and played the BD.
A little past the 1 hr 20 min mark my player froze.
No response from any keys, except for the Off button.
I was shocked.

I restarted and resumed play just a few minutes before that point but this time it played OK.
Straight out of the sealed packaging you'd think it would be as clean as it could ever be.

Can anyone provide insight as to why this happened?
post #951 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by le-penseur View Post



Oh, BTW, I did watch a movie --- the Blu-ray special edition of Avatar --- with the BDP 105 set to output 1080i (limited by my older Pioneer plasma display), and it looked and sounded spectacular
smile.gif .
 

Try 720p, you may have a nice surprise smile.gif, especially with fast moving scenes.
post #952 of 10257
Well my order is in! Going to be a musical holiday here! Well maybe a movie too.
post #953 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

With that long of a download, you might want to get to know the fine folks at OPPO Tech Support who can mail you a burned-disc with the desired firmware install already on it.
By the way, if you do the download again, it doesn't matter that you've set it to download to your regular computer hard drive. You can just copy the downloaded file to the USB stick after the download finishes.
--Bob

I might get high speed internet conection so that would fix my speed issue. I couldn't figure out how to trasnfer the files from my hard drive it wasn't stored in my documents or download folders. Anyway, I learned new things, so it was worth the time and slight frustrations. smile.gif
post #954 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by triweaver2 View Post

Well my order is in! Going to be a musical holiday here! Well maybe a movie too.

I am sure you will be happy with the 105. The sound impressed me and I may even prefer it over my 5K modded Sony XA 777ES with tube output stage! Even Directtv sounds better. I owned the 103 too though it sounded very good, the 105 is a bit better especially bass weight and definition. If I didn't also have a turntable set up, I would sell off my preamp and just use the 105 as preamp.
post #955 of 10257
Is there a known issue with the 105 not being able to read large folders of music? I can FLAC and AIFF from small folders 100GB, but larger directories >500GB it doesnt do anything. I click on it, it says loading for one second and then it goes back to the root directory. I let it sit there for 30 minutes to do the indexing by itselft, but nothing. I tried this through the Network (where i can read smaller directories) and nothing. I then hooked up a 2TB full HD through the DAC USB and nothing, same thing; just stays at the root directory and does no indexing.

Anyone having these problems? The 2TB is connected directly and is formatted to attach to the Mac Time Capsule (which is where I was able to access the smaller folders via Network)

Thanks
==================
Now even in my small folder through Network only a few artist folders open up to show the songs...plays selective folders of AIFF and FLAC...
Edited by nycjazz - 12/10/12 at 3:29pm
post #956 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

I am sure you will be happy with the 105. The sound impressed me and I may even prefer it over my 5K modded Sony XA 777ES with tube output stage! Even Directtv sounds better. I owned the 103 too though it sounded very good, the 105 is a bit better especially bass weight and definition. If I didn't also have a turntable set up, I would sell off my preamp and just use the 105 as preamp.

Thank you Todd68. I am looking forward to the upgrade from my 83. Better than that Sony is amazing. I've been wanting to upgrade for quite a long time.
post #957 of 10257
Replaced my BDP-93 with the BDP-105 this past week (wanted the analog stereo performance), got that part but
the video out from the 105 is not as good as the 93 is. I did some A/B testing and I have to adjust the contrast
on the 105 up to +3 (set for +2 on the 95), set the contrast on my Panasonic TC-P42ST30 up from +75 to +80 and the
Sharpness up from +15 to +25. Using the original HDMI cables supplied by Oppo (I have switched these cables between
the two BDP's as well) and have switched between the 3 HDMI inputs on the Panasonic, results are pretty much the same
as described above. I use the Spears & Munsil Blu-ray as well as the Disney WOW disc to get things in range, then tweak
to my own preference.

In the end the video quality is close but, in my opinion, the 93 has an edge over the 105. I have viewed several Blu-rays, even
rented one that I had so I could do a half way decent A/B test. Without going into the details of what I perceive as the
difference has anyone else had a similar experience? Oppo Tech Support has indicated there might be some adjustments
needed but seeing the the 93 and 105 share the same video chip set it shouldn't be drastic. Do the video adjustments I
mentioned above seem out of the norm? Any comments would be appreciated.

jimd
post #958 of 10257
^ Sounds to me like there's a settings mistake. Given that you are finding most of the adjustment necessary in Contrast (white levels), the most likely mistake is that you are using the wrong "Picture Mode" in the Panasonic. You may also have Gamma set incorrectly in the Panasonic.

You should be able to leave the Picture Adjustment settings in the 105 (and the 93) at the factory default (0) values and make any necessary calibration adjustments in the display.

If you are using RGB data format, and also have a substantial adjustment value in the Panasonic for black levels (Brightness setting), then it is also possible you have the Panasonic set to expect the wrong flavor of RGB. I.e., the OPPO is sending RGB Video Level (which is the one you want) but the Panasonic is expecting RGB PC Level.
--Bob
post #959 of 10257
^^^
I agreed with Bob. This has happen to me. I scratched my head and realied that I have not set the picture of my tv for that input, yet.
post #960 of 10257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post

"I replayed the Watchmen disc with the same effect. It appears that the dialogue audio is slightly ahead of video.Very strange because I do not have this problem on other Blu ray discs? They seem to play without any timing issue with dialogue. I must say that I am very impressed with the analog XLR outs and listening to CD's."UpdateThe timing issue has been corrected with the Watchmen disc after uploading the latest Public Beta 1205B firmware update.There is still a very slight delay but the movie is watchable now! Thank you Oppo.

Does the 105 sound better than the SSP-800, I might sell the SSP-800 if that is the case!
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