New SVS SB1000 & PB1000 Subwoofers!! - Page 11

I'm not that familiar with REW, but I'm pretty sure you can't use an Audyssey-specific mic. IIRC, you need to buy a separate mic and calibrate either it or your laptop's sound card or perhaps both. See this link for more information: REW Help Contents
Yes. A peak at a frequency means that that frequency will be played louder than the rest of the frequencies in the sub's "flat" (+/-3dB) frequency range. A null means the frequency will be played more quietly.
Very un-technically-speaking, the DSP would test the sub, measure the response and load into memory an EQ profile that would take all incoming signals and boost* or cut them as required to output to the sub a "flat" signal to play.

See these Audyssey before-and-after images to get an idea of the type of equalization that it - and, similarly, miniDSP - can provide.

(*Not sure how much boosting is done, because boosting at low frequencies can result in a very large demand for power if the output level is high. Most likely, the EQ profile would attempt to cut peaks as much as possible, and perhaps boost nulls where it makes sense to do so.)
Edited by eljaycanuck - 1/17/13 at 2:21pm

I think can use the Audyssey mic with REW most, but you will need to search the web to find out how to integrate it. I know others have. If you can't find the info here, try Hometheatershack.

Otherwise if you have something like a Ratshack SPL meter you should be able to use that.

I stand corrected.

Eljay the pics are simply awesome. OMG, your center makes my Paradigm cc-170 look so puny.

I would have to upsize my home again to get that kind of room to work with. Of course in Vancouver area, that would use up my retirement fund!

Nicely done.

So I've read just about every word of this thread and am reasonably confident that the PB-1000 is the sub for me. I would truly appreciate it if I could give a few details and have the experts here confirm that choice.

I'm putting together a budget 5.1 HT. Primary use is movies and TV, with a healthy dose of gaming on the PS3. It would be nice if music sounded great too, but that more of an afterthought.

Here is a list of the components I'm planning to get:

Marantz NR1403 Receiver $400
Front right and left: Pioneer SP-FS52 Andrew Jones Towers (rear port) $250.00
Center: Pioneer SP-C22 Andrew Jones Center $100.00
Sub: SVS PB-1000 10" 300w Powered Sub $500.00
Surrounds: Polk OWM3 Surrounds $130.00

Below is a rough diagram of my basement. I think ceiling height is 8 feet. It doesn't show in the picture, but the long wall on the right is just about exactly 20 feet long. The floor is a bare concrete slab, covered only in part by the area rug (which is 10' x 12') as shown. Walls and ceiling are drywall. There is a door at the top of the stairs that will usually be closed when the TV is on.



Questions:

1) The PB-1000 is a solid choice right? It will fill the room just fine? (I'd love to step up to the PB12-NSD, but neither the budget nor the size will pass WAF muster.)

2) Is the PB-1000 likely to play nice (sound nice) with the receiver and cheapo pioneers I’ve chosen?

3) Which sub position do you think is more likely to sound good?

4) Can I just set the PB-1000 on the bare concrete? Does it have "feet" of any kind? Do I need to put something under it if I do not want it scuffed up?

5) Any other thoughts would be great appreciated!

Thanks so much!

1) The PB-1000 is a solid choice right? It will fill the room just fine? (I'd love to step up to the PB12-NSD, but neither the budget nor the size will pass WAF muster.)

Provided you don't like to play it too loud I suspect it would do quite well. The PB1000 appears to be designed more for depth then output, a reasonable compromise given it's cost. If you often watch movies at 0dB then you might have an issue, but anything reasonable should be fine.


2) Is the PB-1000 likely to play nice (sound nice) with the receiver and cheapo pioneers I’ve chosen?

The Pioneers, although rather inexpensive, are not cheap. They actually have much better sound quality then their price would lead you to believe.


3) Which sub position do you think is more likely to sound good?

No one can answer that I'm afraid - you'll have to experiment, because each room is different. Were it me I'd start with position 1 though.


4) Can I just set the PB-1000 on the bare concrete? Does it have "feet" of any kind? Do I need to put something under it if I do not want it scuffed up?

Yes, it has small rubber feet. Regardless, I'd suggest putting on something. Concrete may not be the ideal base for a subwoofer.

Thanks, DG!
It definitely is big (3' wide, 70lbs heavy). But it's quite a step up from my CC-370...and so worth it!


Yeah, housing prices out there are nuts! Nice city, though. And a lot warmer than Ottawa at this time of year!

Thanks much Jim. Just ordered -- can't wait to hear it!

You're very welcome. Be sure to come back and post your impressions after you've had the chance to break it in.

yeap so i can read too :-)

god i am waiting to anxiously to get paid for that project i have to deliver!

so guys, today i had a simple calculation using my legs (can't find the stupid meter right now), and my room is smaller than i described thankfully! It is 8m * 5m * 2m Height. (It is not exactly all the space like that, from what you see in my sketchup in the previous posts. but 8m long is for sure, as for the 4m, there it changes in some places to 6m instead.

Please tell me that PB-1000 will cover it :P

Nice set up eljay!

Thanks!

I look forward to seeing pics of your set-up with your FV15HP in it!

Haha Fingers crossed!

Although the Rhythmik FV15hp is in my scope as well!!

That room is still pretty large, but a single PB1000 might work. The only way to know for certain though is to try it. If you don't like the volume too loud you'll probably be OK.

That is a real nice subwoofer. I've heard that thing first hand, and was very impressed.

Did some more listening with the PB1000 and I must say I really like this Sub. I still only hooked one up and am contemplating doing a stereo sub set up.

But this sub is more musical that I thought a ported sub would be. I used the AIX HD sampler BD to set it up as my Adcome GTP830 does not send test tones to the Sub out( have no idea why they did that)

Then I listened to Stellestar* CD and loved how this sub clearly defined the Bass lines on that CD. Lots great musical bass it.

I have Phase technology PC 800 HO's up front for L n R and a PC Center. I think if i do this stereo Sub set up
i'll be in for a threat.

I just wonder how it would sound for movies as this will eliminate the LFE .

I could always get a PB 12 NSD for that then

I'll have to try both ways, but I think just using the Sub out and splitting it would be best for a theater use.

Athanasios

so you haven't tested it yet on movies?

Yesterday I have received my PB-1000. The droning I had before with several subs is completely gone and my first impression is that it is great for music but the power for movies could be a little bit more.

However, I need to add the following:
- I might be spoiled due to my booming DIY 12" ported sub (Mivoc AW3000 with AM80) which is quite powerful in my room. it tends to droning and is not very accurate, therefore I'd like to replace it
- my room is rather large (~3.5 x 8m)
- my AVR does not have bass EQ (audyssey 2EQ) and i don't have a DSP yet
- i am no expert in setting it up (currently the volume is at 12 o'clock, low pass is at max as I use the AVR to set the frequency which is currently set to 60Hz, and the phase does not make an audible difference to me)

I have only two options for the position of the sub and as the sound between both locations was similar i have chosen the one that just looks nicer (in the middle of the line from the Center to the right speaker).

I am thinking of returning it and getting an XTZ 12.16, however, I'm unsure if that would make an improvement and I'd like to get out the best of the PB-1000 before I make the final decision. What would you suggest?

well i guess that the sub needs to run in first for a few hours. as for the movies, according to Audyssey and THX, the crossover should be at 80hz for the speakers and under that the sub should have it.

our room size is similar. For sure a calibration could help you i guess. Not that 2EQ touches the sub. Keep in mind that i have not got my PB-1000 yet so i can't help you. What is the distance of the sub from you? Have you also tried to calibrate the sub by db? since i don't have a normal spl meter, i am using an app from my phone. (yes i know it is not accurate and that it sucks), but still. a number is a number.

i don't know if there is a better sub for 500€. if there is, i would like to know it

So far I only Watched Star Wars: A New hope, It performed very well, and I still have not really dialed it in with test tones or a Sub crawl. My Sub line out cable is stretched out to its max with out putting stain on the Phono jacks. It was a mistake I made when wiring the theater. But i am going to put a Y spitter on it or go stereo subs so I'll do the sub crawl. I need to find my test tone CD and maybe graph out the locations. If i see I have nulls and peaks I might invest in a Feed Back Destroyer EQ. Now in the opening scene where the Imperial Destroyer is chasing down the Rebel ship the rumbling of the engines is much more distinct than the general drone of my old and tired VA 1012( Velodyne). And all through out the movie it did not make it self stand out but added the right amount of LFE needed. So not Boomy and no port Chuffing that i was afraid I might get( never had a ported sub before).

But i was so impressed with its musicality i got caught up listening to music. That is why I am thinking of making my set up a stereo sub set up, and possibly down the road get a larger dedicated Sub for the LFE in movies. I'll have ot experiment or maybe set it up so I can switch easily between a stereo sub set up and the LFE set up.

Athanasios

i am curious...

1) what is a stereo sub? 2 subs or connection related?
2) sub crawl is when u place the sub at the listening position and try to find the best place for it to be? (i can't do that, my space is specific )
3) can't u use your AV test tone instead of cd ones?
4) as for the nulls and peaks, you have an SPL meter running with REW? i am still learning on that
5) music doesn't use the LFE port on the sub?

Thanks and sorry for asking so many questions

I am learning

LFE stands for Low Frequency Effects. It is it's own dedicated channel that a movie director includes onto a film, it's not "all sounds lower than crossover = send to sub" There are ways of sending non LFE data into the LFE input though. I'm still waiting for my first sub to be delivered so I can't really say how. Something about bass redirection, which isn't the same as crossover?

[edit]

Kinda big but this is what I do for 2 channel music.
http://i.minus.com/idW1IomB1ONnD.jpg
Edited by Ak Gara - 1/19/13 at 7:08am

yes but since the AV has 1 sub output, how can u give stereo - 'musical' signal to the sub? with just one RCA cable?

Stereo subs usually refers to two subwoofers. Stereo bass, as I (possibly inaccurately) understand it, requires two subs, each receiving the distinct low-frequency content of the channel with which it is associated. Example:
- run a connection from the left main speaker-level output on your AVR to the left speaker-level input on the subwoofer, and then from the left speaker-level output on the subwoofer to the left main speaker; and
- run a similar connection for the right main speaker.
Edited by eljaycanuck - 1/19/13 at 8:23am

ah.... ok i understand. well i suppose the AV receiver should do that on it's own. i don't think the subwoofer should give power to the mains, since it doesn't have enough power. isn't that right?

Thanks for that tidbit. Good to know. Especially coming from someone with experience.

The sub never powers the mains. The AVR sends the powered signal "through" the sub to the mains, but the circuitry within the sub takes just the signal and uses the sub's amp to power the signal for the sub only. (And the crossover - or low-pass filter - determines the range of the lower frequencies that the sub will play.)

As elJay says the high level will do as he says. In my situation I can use the line level outs since I have a separate 3 channel amp for my front three speakers. So i can take the Left line level to the left sub then from the left subs out back to the left input of my 3 channel amp. Then do the same for the right line level to my right sub . now the subs cross over will filter out the low frequencies that go to my 3 channel amps left and right inputs. My center channel input will still be full signal since I have Large speakers set for all my fronts. If I wanted to go crazy i could get a third PB 1000 and use it on my center channel as well, or even on all channels. I am not sure how low the mixing is for all channels. I never really looked into it.

But if you have a AV receiver that has internal amplification of its own then you would use two subs as ElJay explained.

Athanasios

It might just need a little more time to break in. How long have you run it thus far?


I actually have both of those -- I own the 12.16 and have a PB1000 for review -- so perhaps I can give you some insight regarding them. From my perspective, anwyay...

The XTZ wins hands down for appearance, with it's gorgeous piano black paint and heavy-duty grill attached by 6 pins. It's cabinet and bracing is much better making it feel far more solid, and easily passing the "knuckle rap" test. The PB1000 sounds a bit hollow to me. The XTZ is a lot heavier too. There are myriad ways to configure it as well, using the 2 EQ boost switches (at 25Hz and 50Hz) and port bungs to plug either, both or neither port. That means tuning the 12.16 to whatever you want/need is easy.

For total output it's probably a draw, because the PB1000 can play louder then you'd think a 10" driver would be able to. For depth the PB1000 pulls ahead, but unfortunately when pushed both make port noises. Tonal quality is a tough one; the PB1000 strikes me as a bit richer overall, while I think the XTZ may have an edge in dynamics.

@JimWilson:
I guess it has run for 6h up till now. What do you reckon how much time it needs until it has broken in?

I have set the volume at the sub at 1 o'clock and when I run audyssey 2eq it sets the sub to -10dB (approximately the same range where it sets my 5 other speakers). When turning the volume of the sub at the AVR to +4dB the PB1000 seems to be quite powerful, however, I can feel (or rather hear) that it plays close to its limits. Also, for music this is definitely too much bass..

When setting it to say -4dB the sub sounds still nice, but I'm missing a bit of the pressure/push that my AW3000 had (while being fuzzy though). I would expect that the XTZ with the larger driver would have a bit more of this push.