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New SVS SB1000 & PB1000 Subwoofers!! - Page 12

post #331 of 884
1/19/13 at 10:25am
eljay and nashou, you guys are insane smile.gif (in the good way)

so let me get this straight.

i have bi-wire my fronts and i would like to keep it this way. the other thing is that i use my speakers 80% for movies and 20% for music. So i am connecting my AV to the LFE and it is fine on this subject.

But does this mean that my sub will not play as well for music as it could? or does the AV handle that so i am fine either way?

this subwoofer thing is getting more and more complicated. i don't know if i should put so much thinking into this, or just buy a sub and sit on my couch.

on the other hand, i don't like to buy things and not know all the details. i am a developer and details are the important things i need to know.

i just have one simple question this time :smile.gif is the PB-1000 the best choice as value for money? at this price of course

Thanks again guys
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post #332 of 884
1/19/13 at 10:31am
TeDeV, you've got some good questions, but just to respect the nature of this thread - and I guess I should have suggested this sooner - please take this post and create a new thread with it. I'll add my comments there. Thanks. smile.gif
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post #333 of 884
1/19/13 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 71onirot View Post

I guess it has run for 6h up till now. What do you reckon how much time it needs until it has broken in?

When doing reviews I let a sub break in for 10-12 hours, minimum, before doing any critical listening. Maybe you should give it a few more and see what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 71onirot View Post

I have set the volume at the sub at 1 o'clock and when I run audyssey 2eq it sets the sub to -10dB (approximately the same range where it sets my 5 other speakers). When turning the volume of the sub at the AVR to +4dB the PB1000 seems to be quite powerful, however, I can feel (or rather hear) that it plays close to its limits. Also, for music this is definitely too much bass..

When setting it to say -4dB the sub sounds still nice, but I'm missing a bit of the pressure/push that my AW3000 had (while being fuzzy though). I would expect that the XTZ with the larger driver would have a bit more of this push.

If Audyssey set your sub to -10dB it sounds like the gain might be too high, but 1 o'clock doesn't strike me as outrageous. Have you tried leaving it at 1 o'clock and setting the receivers trim to 0dB? With the PB1000 I have it needed to be set at 3 o'clock initially because it seemed weak. As it started to break in I dropped it to 2, which was probably still a bit much. My AVR was set for 0dB the whole time. Every room/situation is different, of course, but that might be something to consider.
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post #334 of 884
1/20/13 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

The XTZ wins hands down for appearance, with it's gorgeous piano black paint and heavy-duty grill attached by 6 pins. It's cabinet and bracing is much better making it feel far more solid, and easily passing the "knuckle rap" test. The PB1000 sounds a bit hollow to me. The XTZ is a lot heavier too. There are myriad ways to configure it as well, using the 2 EQ boost switches (at 25Hz and 50Hz) and port bungs to plug either, both or neither port. That means tuning the 12.16 to whatever you want/need is easy.

For total output it's probably a draw, because the PB1000 can play louder then you'd think a 10" driver would be able to. For depth the PB1000 pulls ahead, but unfortunately when pushed both make port noises. Tonal quality is a tough one; the PB1000 strikes me as a bit richer overall, while I think the XTZ may have an edge in dynamics.

Sorry for bothering you again, but I just don't want to make a mistake and I need to come to a decision soon.

Would you say that I wouldn't be more happy with the XTZ 12.16 regarding sound pressure/pushiness (as in feeling the bass rather than hearing) even though it has a larger driver than the SVS? I am still unconvinced that the XTZ 12.16 is not more powerful than the SVS. I can definitely say that my self-made sub is more pushy than the PB-1000 with its 80W amp. Furthermore, I expect the XTZ to be more pushy than my self-made sub having equal driver size, a slightly larger case and better quality components.

Am I right that I won't need the configuration options of the XTZ if I will buy a miniDSP?
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post #335 of 884
1/20/13 at 10:17am
ElJay "TeDeV, you've got some good questions, but just to respect the nature of this thread - and I guess I should have suggested this sooner - please take this post and create a new thread with it. I'll add my comments there. Thanks."

Could you link that post!
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post #336 of 884
1/20/13 at 10:21am
At this time, it's post #331 in this thread. He hasn't created a separate thread yet.
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post #337 of 884
1/20/13 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post

eljay and nashou, you guys are insane smile.gif (in the good way)


i just have one simple question this time :smile.gif is the PB-1000 the best choice as value for money? at this price of course

Thanks again guys


I think it is for what you want it to do. Will it pressurize your space so you feel the bass?

No.

Will it sound Good in your set up?

Yes.

I was surprised at how musical this sub is. But its really tight and quicker than expected
on fast played bass lines in music.

Now for movies. My theater is close to 4k^3. Does it go loud? Yes. Does it pressurize the room, not really.
But it does perform well otherwise in sound level and clarity. I could feel it but not as much as my Velodyne but i think that is due to my Velodyne having spiked feet that dug into my floor and transfered the vibrations to my listening position. So I think if I added spikes to go through the carpeting to the floor id gain the feel with a single PB 1000.

So i watched The Fifth Element and really liked how id did. good sound levels with the setting at about 2 O'clock on the sub . So in the scene where they leave the space hotel and it explodes It definitely had more bass in that scene so
I felt the bass there. I paused the movie here and decided to finally hook up the second PB 1000. I ran a line out from Sub 1(left sub) to Sub 2(right sub)LFE input, set the level and phase the same as Sub 1 and played that scene over.
WOW I really felt it now and it shook the room. So after watching the 5th E I put in The Amazing Spider man. This movie definitely has more deep base the the 5th E. It was just really well defined tight bass and made me smile the whole time. It was actually a little tiring so I lowered the volume over all and then decided to lower the volume on the sub to 1 O'Clock. Here is where i like it best so far.

I know i can get better performance when I do a proper Sub crawl and measure the location with test tones and using
a program like REW. I want to learn this as well TeDev. After I graph the room response I might spring for a Berringer Feed back Destroyer if its needed.

So what is my over all impression?

Love them so far!!!! i'll listen and watch movies with this current set up and maybe decide later on if I want to use them as the low end for a stereo sub set up and then add another larger sub for dedicated LFE.

So id get one TeDev if I were you. Don't over think it and just buy it and sit on your Couch! wink.gif

Athanasios
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post #338 of 884
1/20/13 at 11:58am
here it is guys smile.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1453171/noobie-sub-questions-journey-to-the-unknown-and-perfection
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post #339 of 884
1/20/13 at 12:46pm
Anyone here listened to an SB1000 in a larger room? I'm wondering how it would fare in a 2400 cubic foot room, with a music only setup.
Edited by t3ss - 1/20/13 at 9:54pm
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post #340 of 884
1/21/13 at 1:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

I think it is for what you want it to do. Will it pressurize your space so you feel the bass?

No.

Will it sound Good in your set up?

Yes.

I was surprised at how musical this sub is. But its really tight and quicker than expected
on fast played bass lines in music.

Now for movies. My theater is close to 4k^3. Does it go loud? Yes. Does it pressurize the room, not really.
But it does perform well otherwise in sound level and clarity. I could feel it but not as much as my Velodyne but i think that is due to my Velodyne having spiked feet that dug into my floor and transfered the vibrations to my listening position. So I think if I added spikes to go through the carpeting to the floor id gain the feel with a single PB 1000.

So i watched The Fifth Element and really liked how id did. good sound levels with the setting at about 2 O'clock on the sub . So in the scene where they leave the space hotel and it explodes It definitely had more bass in that scene so
I felt the bass there. I paused the movie here and decided to finally hook up the second PB 1000. I ran a line out from Sub 1(left sub) to Sub 2(right sub)LFE input, set the level and phase the same as Sub 1 and played that scene over.
WOW I really felt it now and it shook the room. So after watching the 5th E I put in The Amazing Spider man. This movie definitely has more deep base the the 5th E. It was just really well defined tight bass and made me smile the whole time. It was actually a little tiring so I lowered the volume over all and then decided to lower the volume on the sub to 1 O'Clock. Here is where i like it best so far.

I know i can get better performance when I do a proper Sub crawl and measure the location with test tones and using
a program like REW. I want to learn this as well TeDev. After I graph the room response I might spring for a Berringer Feed back Destroyer if its needed.

So what is my over all impression?

Love them so far!!!! i'll listen and watch movies with this current set up and maybe decide later on if I want to use them as the low end for a stereo sub set up and then add another larger sub for dedicated LFE.

So id get one TeDev if I were you. Don't over think it and just buy it and sit on your Couch! wink.gif

Athanasios

Well thanks a lot for your information. The sub will be max 2 meters away from me looking at my couch. So i am guessing that i will feel the vibrations through my couch as i already do with my z5500. Plus i don't have a carpet under my sub, so...

i don't know why most people choose Berringer Feed back Destroyer, instead of a MiniDSP. Is it because they don't know it? Either way, if u manage to do it before me (the calibration) please let me know how smile.gif

As for the last thing... fine ok smile.gif i am just waiting to get paid for a project of mine, and this sub is mine! (and by the way, i have the new spiderman movie. rolleyes.gif )
Edited by TeDeV - 1/21/13 at 2:26am
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post #341 of 884
1/21/13 at 3:40am
Awesome my PB1000 came! After rerunning Audyssey with the sub's gain at 50%, Audyssey set the sub to -8db. If I want to turn the sub up does it matter which one I change, sub gain or Audyssey gain?

[edit]

When people say they like to run their sub 3db hot, do they mean changing my -8 to -5, or changing it all the way to +3db?
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post #342 of 884
1/21/13 at 4:16am
Ak Gara, from my experience and from other people agreeing, it is best to run the Audyssey calibration with ur AVR finding the sub at 0db. The result is much better then. After the calibration, you can easily turn the volume up on the sub and not from the AVR, to gain more db. Try it and let me know.

By the way, congrats on your sub. Let it run for a while and let us know how it handles smile.gif (i don't remember your room dimensions)
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post #343 of 884
1/21/13 at 4:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ak Gara View Post

Awesome my PB1000 came! After rerunning Audyssey with the sub's gain at 50%, Audyssey set the sub to -8db. If I want to turn the sub up does it matter which one I change, sub gain or Audyssey gain?

[edit]

When people say they like to run their sub 3db hot, do they mean changing my -8 to -5, or changing it all the way to +3db?

Avoid running the subwoofer to +3 db on the AVR, as this adds a distortion to the signal and may not be clean, but using Audyssey. That slight distortion of the signal begins to be apparent when -15 surpass ref, at least in music I detected.
This noise anyone even responded to it?
It happens with Bass I love you, especially when they reach the deeper sounds of the song, it sounds a strange sound from the subwoofer (And I'm not pushing to limit my PB12-Plus DSP, since my room is only 10 m2, I have much headroom).

Conversely, if the subwoofer is volumene high Aduyssey obtained by calibration, is always less than 0db, I never made ​​that noise.
It all has to do with Audyssey, however had a Yamaha and never happened.

I recommend you're below 0db and margin, to increase the volume without displaying the annoying noise.

For me to be a digital amplifier, this as close to full capacity to squeeze their full potential, at least that to Ed Mullen said the mdelos STA and STA-800D-1000D. So after spending my Audyssey settings is-15db. So I avoid that noise annoying and if I go 3db hot, I put it at -12.

A hug.

PS: I hope I have been able to express myself best, because I'm from Spain and my English here may become distorted.

rolleyes.gif
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post #344 of 884
1/21/13 at 4:36am
this is coming to the same result to what we say.

if the Audyssey sets the sub to -5 (for example), it means that the sub is playing higher than it should be for the reference level, so the AVR tries to lower the power signal to fix that.

if u turn the volume down on the sub, so that Audyssey says that it finds the sub to be at 0db, it means that the sub uses less power to reach the same result at reference level.

After that, if you feel that you want to hear your sub louder, you just turn the volume knob on the sub higher, and you get the result you want.
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post #345 of 884
1/21/13 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post

this is coming to the same result to what we say.

if the Audyssey sets the sub to -5 (for example), it means that the sub is playing higher than it should be for the reference level, so the AVR tries to lower the power signal to fix that.

if u turn the volume down on the sub, so that Audyssey says that it finds the sub to be at 0db, it means that the sub uses less power to reach the same result at reference level.

After that, if you feel that you want to hear your sub louder, you just turn the volume knob on the sub higher, and you get the result you want.

Now I am confused. I am sure that most (similar) topics would advise, after Audyssey calibration, not to touch the volume knob of the sub but change the sub level from the AVR. The key reason, if I remember correctly, is to keep a calibrated reference level so that you can always return to your starting position if it doesn't sound right.

Can someone elaborate?
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post #346 of 884
1/21/13 at 5:21am
K I ran Audyssey again with the subs gain at 25% and Audyssey set it to -0db.
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post #347 of 884
1/21/13 at 5:53am
Quote:
Can someone elaborate?
Run Audyssey. If it is setting your AVR's sub level too low - because the gain on the sub itself is too high - lower the gain on the sub and re-run Audyssey. This should bring the AVR's sub level closer to 0.

Repeat if/as required.

Once the AVR's sub level is reasonably close to zero, don't touch the gain on the sub itself. Adjust the sub level via the AVR if/as desired.
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post #348 of 884
1/21/13 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Run Audyssey. If it is setting your AVR's sub level too low - because the gain on the sub itself is too high - lower the gain on the sub and re-run Audyssey. This should bring the AVR's sub level closer to 0.

Repeat if/as required.

Once the AVR's sub level is reasonably close to zero, don't touch the gain on the sub itself. Adjust the sub level via the AVR if/as desired.

I don't have an AVY with Audyssey , so I do it by SPL meter. SO I should then set my Sub setting on my Adcom GTP 830 to 0 and adjust the Sub level running a white noise test tone to match the SPL level of the white noise level
of my LCR and surounds. Correct? Then adjust the sub level in my AVR to where I like it.

does that sound about right for a non Audyssey pre amp?

Athanasios
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post #349 of 884
1/21/13 at 7:29am
That sounds right to me. smile.gif
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post #350 of 884
1/21/13 at 7:32am
Audyssey is like down the volume for the subwoofer this high.
It's simple, Audyssey just going to try to be 75db level and match the same volume as other speakers. Nothing wrong because the higher the sub and Audyssey leave the subwoofer channel lower. If you measure by software I pass pink noise with a meter, you can see how the level is the same obtained (Which is not out of the reference).

What nobody knows me explain, is because when the subwoofer is level so that calibration is 0db Aduyssey, from that level or go up +3 db signal or even more, put a distortion or hum with certain signals of low frequency.

Audyssey Defect? Defect AVR?

rolleyes.gif
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post #351 of 884
1/21/13 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Run Audyssey. If it is setting your AVR's sub level too low - because the gain on the sub itself is too high - lower the gain on the sub and re-run Audyssey. This should bring the AVR's sub level closer to 0.

Repeat if/as required.

Once the AVR's sub level is reasonably close to zero, don't touch the gain on the sub itself. Adjust the sub level via the AVR if/as desired.

Thanks. This is exactly what I have done. My sub is set to 0dB (Audyssey did not trim it).
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post #352 of 884
1/22/13 at 6:32am
Can anyone confirm/deny that it is possible to screw spikes in the PB-1000? Or does the PB-1000 doesn't have pre drilled screw thread (Don't know if this word exists.. simple translation from Dutch to English.. ;-) )
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post #353 of 884
1/22/13 at 6:43am
I've ran the sub for a day or so now, and to make Audyssey be at 0db, I have to set the subs gain to 8 to 9 oclock on the dial. Seems like a really low position since it only starts at 7 oclock. Turning more to 12 oclock makes the PB1000 much more impressive. I only did that for a moment though. How safe is it to run higher all the time?

Two settings I can't decide between are low gain + 200/250hz crossover vs high gain with 50hz crossover. Ideally I'd have 2 PB1000's and set the 2nd one to high gain + 50hz low pass filter. Maybe down the road...
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post #354 of 884
1/22/13 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsluis View Post

Can anyone confirm/deny that it is possible to screw spikes in the PB-1000? Or does the PB-1000 doesn't have pre drilled screw thread (Don't know if this word exists.. simple translation from Dutch to English.. ;-) )

It has rubber feet that I think are screwed into the base. I do not see why you couldn't put spikes into the same location..

I think there are some wood screw end spikes available from some manufacturers .

Athanasios
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post #355 of 884
1/22/13 at 6:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ak Gara View Post

I've ran the sub for a day or so now, and to make Audyssey be at 0db, I have to set the subs gain to 8 to 9 oclock on the dial. Seems like a really low position since it only starts at 7 oclock. Turning more to 12 oclock makes the PB1000 much more impressive. I only did that for a moment though. How safe is it to run higher all the time?

Perfectly safe. The suggestions you've been given are just that; suggestions. There's really no hard and fast rule for any of it. Personal preference will often dictate the various settings, so if you like how it sounds when the gain is at 12 o'clock then leave it there and enjoy your new toy. Unless you're really pushing it -- like +5dB on your receiver and 3 o'clock on the sub -- you'll be fine.
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post #356 of 884
1/22/13 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ak Gara View Post

I've ran the sub for a day or so now, and to make Audyssey be at 0db, I have to set the subs gain to 8 to 9 oclock on the dial. Seems like a really low position since it only starts at 7 oclock. Turning more to 12 oclock makes the PB1000 much more impressive. I only did that for a moment though. How safe is it to run higher all the time?

Two settings I can't decide between are low gain + 200/250hz crossover vs high gain with 50hz crossover. Ideally I'd have 2 PB1000's and set the 2nd one to high gain + 50hz low pass filter. Maybe down the road...

i don't think that you have any problem with that. unless you listen to reference level. If you reach reference level on the AVR and the sub is more than ur 9 o'clock, then more power will be sent to the sub, and this is where u will start 'pushing' the sub. So i guess (someone will correct me if i am wrong), that you are fine with ur sub at 12 o'clock while u r not at reference level. For sure, your sub will need a bit of running it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

It has rubber feet that I think are screwed into the base. I do not see why you couldn't put spikes into the same location..

I think there are some wood screw end spikes available from some manufacturers .

Athanasios

why would someone change the feet? is it about vibrations? i am guessing that the rubber feet holds the vibration from the sub, which if you think of it, it is a good thing.
on the other hand if the spikes are good, maybe they are able to transfer sub vibrations through the floor and to your body. but doesn't that means, that everything near the sub will be dancing?
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post #357 of 884
1/22/13 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

4) Can I just set the PB-1000 on the bare concrete? Does it have "feet" of any kind? Do I need to put something under it if I do not want it scuffed up?

Yes, it has small rubber feet. Regardless, I'd suggest putting on something. Concrete may not be the ideal base for a subwoofer.

Thanks again, Jim. Do you recommend anything in particular? A small square of carpet just for the sub or a mat of some kind? Or are you thinking a stand?
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post #358 of 884
1/22/13 at 7:21am
in my case i have Tiles on my floor. should i consider something like this?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GRAMMA

or find spikes ?
Edited by TeDeV - 1/22/13 at 7:38am
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post #359 of 884
1/22/13 at 7:45am
Quote:
Can anyone confirm/deny that it is possible to screw spikes in the PB-1000?
SVS could confirm this. smile.gif

(The owner's manual (PDF) doesn't say anything about it.)
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post #360 of 884
1/22/13 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobio2 View Post

Thanks again, Jim. Do you recommend anything in particular? A small square of carpet just for the sub or a mat of some kind? Or are you thinking a stand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post

in my case i have Tiles on my floor. should i consider something like this?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GRAMMA

I'm not sure carpet would be sufficient. I use the same thing TeDeV linked to, the Gramma. It works quite well for me.
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