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New SVS SB1000 & PB1000 Subwoofers!! - Page 14

post #391 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Honestly, I'm not sure the PB1000 or SB1000 would be a good choice given your circumstances.

You have Maggies, which aren't the easiest speakers in the world to seamlessly integrate with a subwoofer. As good as the new 1000 series are they're still budget subs at heart. To get a smooth blend you'll probably need something a little better. And then there's your room...

Assuming just an 8 foot ceiling height you're over 3100 cubic feet, which is not all that small. You should strongly consider duals, like a pair of SB12-NSD's. If you would rather have a single unit perhaps an SB13-Ultra might be more to your liking.

If you're set on the 1000 series then a pair of SB's would probably be the best option. I think they stand a better chance of integrating with the Maggies.

Thank you very much for your response. I do have a couple of questions though. Are you recommending the SB-1000 instead of the PB-1000 because I want to use it primarily for music, or because I have MMGs? I really wanted to spend $600-700, but I guess I am going to have to spend more.

What do you think if I buy one SB-1000 now and save to buy the other one later? I don't want to be completely unsatisfied with one while I save more $$.

Thanks again,

Victor
post #392 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

Jim ... I have a 3.1 set up now of 3 energy veritas v5.2's and was told to either get outlaw lfm-1 plus or pb1000 room is about 22 ft w and 18 ft d!!! Hardwood with 12ft ceilings!! U think 1 outlaw lfm-1 plus or 2 pb1000 or just 1 pb1000? I have a velodyne vx-11 now and doesn't get low enough!!

That's over 4700 cubic feet. Personally, I think a single of either sub would be simply overwhelmed by that much space. Of the options you listed a pair of PB1000's would definitely be better then one LFM-1 Plus. Another potential option would be the PSA XV15.
post #393 of 1194
U thik the xv15 would be fine with that space?
post #394 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romerovm View Post

Are you recommending the SB-1000 instead of the PB-1000 because I want to use it primarily for music, or because I have MMGs?

Yes to both. Generally speaking, acoustic suspension subwoofers have better definition then their ported counterparts. The Maggies will be a bit of a challenge with just about any subwoofer, but I suspect that difficulty would be magnified with a bass reflex design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romerovm View Post

I really wanted to spend $600-700, but I guess I am going to have to spend more. What do you think if I buy one SB-1000 now and save to buy the other one later? I don't want to be completely unsatisfied with one while I save more $$.

With a $600-$700 budget I would suggest the SB12-NSD instead. It's almost the exact same size as the SB1000, but uses a better driver and amp. I think you would have greater success blending that with the Maggies. A single is still too small for that much space, but if it's only temporary -- and you don't push it too hard -- you should be OK for a short time.
post #395 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

U thik the xv15 would be fine with that space?

I'm not sure "fine" is the term I would use, more like "less overwhelmed". Realistically, your room needs two XV15's, but with it's huge output potential it's probably the best of all the options you have thus far.
post #396 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Yes to both. Generally speaking, acoustic suspension subwoofers have better definition then their ported counterparts. The Maggies will be a bit of a challenge with just about any subwoofer, but I suspect that difficulty would be magnified with a bass reflex design.
With a $600-$700 budget I would suggest the SB12-NSD instead. It's almost the exact same size as the SB1000, but uses a better driver and amp. I think you would have greater success blending that with the Maggies. A single is still too small for that much space, but if it's only temporary -- and you don't push it too hard -- you should be OK for a short time.

Hi Jim, me again.

I called SVS before I read your response. I spoke to a guy named Jack. I told him about my speakers, room size, etc. He recommended to get two PB-1000 instead of two SB12-NSD. He said that it would blend better with the Maggies and provide deeper bass. I actually agree with your assesment and it makes much more sense to me. I want this system primarily for music. I will watch movies once or twice a week only, and play music everyday. A pair of SB12-NSD seems like the logical choice.

I made up my mind and I would just go ahead and buy both of whatever I choose now by the way.
post #397 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I'm not sure "fine" is the term I would use, more like "less overwhelmed". Realistically, your room needs two XV15's, but with it's huge output potential it's probably the best of all the options you have thus far.
Hey Jim I just measured its 20ft x 15ft 3inches with 10ft ceilings smile.gif
post #398 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romerovm View Post

I called SVS before I read your response. I spoke to a guy named Jack. I told him about my speakers, room size, etc. He recommended to get two PB-1000 instead of two SB12-NSD. He said that it would blend better with the Maggies and provide deeper bass. I actually agree with your assesment and it makes much more sense to me. I want this system primarily for music. I will watch movies once or twice a week only, and play music everyday. A pair of SB12-NSD seems like the logical choice.

I made up my mind and I would just go ahead and buy both of whatever I choose now by the way.

I'm glad you were able to come up with a solution that meets your needs. After you get everything setup and tuned make sure you come back and post your thoughts.
post #399 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I'm glad you were able to come up with a solution that meets your needs. After you get everything setup and tuned make sure you come back and post your thoughts.

I sure will Jim. You would still recommend the pair of SB12 regardless of the SVS's guy opinion correct?
post #400 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

Hey Jim I just measured its 20ft x 15ft 3inches with 10ft ceilings smile.gif

You just knocked off like 35% of the total space, so that might make a little difference... wink.gif

With that I think a pair of PB1000 would probably do quite nice. They have a good sound for a budget sub, and having two of them would provide enough output to handle just about anything.
post #401 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romerovm View Post

I sure will Jim. You would still recommend the pair of SB12 regardless of the SVS's guy opinion correct?

Give your circumstances, a pair of SB12's would still be my recommendation. I believe the person you spoke with at SVS is correct about the depth -- and that the PB1000 would probably go a little deeper -- but he and I differ on the integration aspect with regard to your Maggie's, especially given your propensity for music. And it's not as though the SB12 is a slouch in the depth department either; Josh Ricci, one of the most respected names when it comes to subwoofer evaluations, thought it was a wonderful sub that could dig surprisingly deep. His review can be found here.
post #402 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

That might be stretching it for a single SB. If you're looking to buy only one sub the PB1000 would probably be the better choice.

Thanks, Jim. Yeah, I realize that the PB1000 is my best bet, but my whole setup (with exception to the surround speakers) is along one wall in the living room, and because of the WAF my only option for subwoofer placement is the small empty spot on that wall. So is the SB12nsd here a better choice over the SB1000 in your estimation?
post #403 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Give your circumstances, a pair of SB12's would still be my recommendation. I believe the person you spoke with at SVS is correct about the depth -- and that the PB1000 would probably go a little deeper -- but he and I differ on the integration aspect with regard to your Maggie's, especially given your propensity for music. And it's not as though the SB12 is a slouch in the depth department either; Josh Ricci, one of the most respected names when it comes to subwoofer evaluations, thought it was a wonderful sub that could dig surprisingly deep. His review can be found here.

Jim, you are awesome. Thanks!
post #404 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBoys1 View Post

Thanks, Jim. Yeah, I realize that the PB1000 is my best bet, but my whole setup (with exception to the surround speakers) is along one wall in the living room, and because of the WAF my only option for subwoofer placement is the small empty spot on that wall. So is the SB12nsd here a better choice over the SB1000 in your estimation?

Small acoustic suspension subwoofers all suffer from what amounts to an immutable law of physics; lower output due to their size. There are ways to mitigate the issue, but it can't be circumvented in it's entirety. The PB1000 can play deeper and louder then either the SB1000 or SB12, but it won't have the sound quality (there's no free lunch I'm afraid because every design has it advantages and liabilities, and SQ is often where ported loses a step or two vis-a-vis sealed).

The SB12 benefits from a better amp, driver and sturdier cabinet then the SB1000, all of which will prove advantageous to the depth, volume and quality of it's sound. Of the three the SB12 will have the highest sound quality and will more then likely exceed the output and depth of the SB1000, but not the PB1000.

It's not unreasonable to assume they would rank something like this in a head to head battle...

SB1000: SQ=2nd, Output=3rd, Depth=3rd
PB1000: SQ=3rd, Output=1st, Depth=1st
SB12-NSD: SQ=1st, Output=2nd, Depth=2nd
post #405 of 1194
so Jim do you still believe that a PB-1000 will be a better choice for me than a SB12? i notice that you place PB in SQ = 3. is it that bad? i don't know how your review is going
post #406 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

You just knocked off like 35% of the total space, so that might make a little difference... wink.gif

With that I think a pair of PB1000 would probably do quite nice. They have a good sound for a budget sub, and having two of them would provide enough output to handle just about anything.
Can I put one on each side of the tv stand 53" apart ?? Or do they have to be right next to each other ??
post #407 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

Can I put one on each side of the tv stand 53" apart ?? Or do they have to be right next to each other ??

ITs best if you can get both near the corners outside of the main speakers.
I have mine inside the main speakers due to the size of my Scree. And my mains would block some of the screen
if place inside my Subs.

So yes you can put then 53" apart but its best to move them to where they sound best and have a more even response.

Athanasios
post #408 of 1194
Yeh I can put them on the outside of each main veritas v5.2's !!! So they would be about 70" apart !!
post #409 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

Yeh I can put them on the outside of each main veritas v5.2's !!! So they would be about 70" apart !!

I actually need a bit longer Sub cable to move mine out a bit from the center. I think I have to get a RCA coupler to do that, or a Y splitter
instead of going out the Left subs Line out to the other sub.

Athanasios
post #410 of 1194
But they won't be really near corners !!! As the room has a hallway to the left before it gets to the other wall!! And a corner fireplace to the right !!
post #411 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

But they won't be really near corners !!! As the room has a hallway to the left before it gets to the other wall!! And a corner fireplace to the right !!

Ahhh, then you'll have to try to have them about the same distance from the closest side wall I would think. But here goes the old saying, do the sub crawl to find the best location. Moving and testing is the best way to work things out.


I am still doing this with my PB 1000's. I have some drops in volume at 60-80 HZ Moving closer to the back wall worsens it, moving out helps. so Now I need to dial in Side to side.
maybe angle them as well. But i need more cable for this. My equipment is on the side wall and the LCRSW line levels are Pre run in wall to a 3 channel floor amp. I had a single sub
before.

Athanasios
post #412 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post

so Jim do you still believe that a PB-1000 will be a better choice for me than a SB12? i notice that you place PB in SQ = 3. is it that bad? i don't know how your review is going

You're starting to over-think this whole subwoofer purchase... smile.gif

That "rating" was merely to highlight the point I was trying to make about the different properties of those 3 subwoofers. I don't think the PB1000 is bad at all -- it actually sounds pretty darn good -- but I suspect the design goals were depth and output, like most other ported subs. Bass reflex can still sound good, but the primary advantages tend more towards low and loud.

Your hands are pretty much tied because of the amount of space you have. Going with a small acoustic suspension subwoofer is probably not going to work all that well.
post #413 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

Can I put one on each side of the tv stand 53" apart ?? Or do they have to be right next to each other ??

You can place them either way, but the results will be different. It depends upon what you're trying to achieve, and how much space you have.

Co-locating, which is generally one on top of the other, will give you a couple dB extra output (volume essentially). Separating them will often smooth the sound distribution, evening out the bass in more areas of the room. That's not a given though, because placement is critical to ensure that occurs, but it's one of the primary advantages of having multiple subs.
post #414 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Small acoustic suspension subwoofers all suffer from what amounts to an immutable law of physics; lower output due to their size. There are ways to mitigate the issue, but it can't be circumvented in it's entirety. The PB1000 can play deeper and louder then either the SB1000 or SB12, but it won't have the sound quality (there's no free lunch I'm afraid because every design has it advantages and liabilities, and SQ is often where ported loses a step or two vis-a-vis sealed).

The SB12 benefits from a better amp, driver and sturdier cabinet then the SB1000, all of which will prove advantageous to the depth, volume and quality of it's sound. Of the three the SB12 will have the highest sound quality and will more then likely exceed the output and depth of the SB1000, but not the PB1000.

It's not unreasonable to assume they would rank something like this in a head to head battle...

SB1000: SQ=2nd, Output=3rd, Depth=3rd
PB1000: SQ=3rd, Output=1st, Depth=1st
SB12-NSD: SQ=1st, Output=2nd, Depth=2nd

Thank you for the reply, Jim! Sounds like a trade-off, just like a lot of things are. So my only options (based on the smaller footprint consideration) are to go with the SB1000, or with the better sound and build quality of the SB12-NSD. I'm assuming that your findings of the SB unit build quality are based on your observations of the build qualtity of the PB1000 that's in your house for evaluation. To pay a little extra for a better cabinet and parts so this sub can reproduce better sound for better cinema and music seems like it's worth another $150 to me!
post #415 of 1194
I'm going with dual pb1000 Jim thanks buddy smile.gif
post #416 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBoys1 View Post

Thank you for the reply, Jim! Sounds like a trade-off, just like a lot of things are. So my only options (based on the smaller footprint consideration) are to go with the SB1000, or with the better sound and build quality of the SB12-NSD. I'm assuming that your findings of the SB unit build quality are based on your observations of the build qualtity of the PB1000 that's in your house for evaluation. To pay a little extra for a better cabinet and parts so this sub can reproduce better sound for better cinema and music seems like it's worth another $150 to me!

It's not that the build quality is bad, per se, it's just not constructed like an SB12. As you noted, trade-off's are required in virtually everything. SVS strikes me as a company that tries not to cut too many corners, or at least doesn't trim a lot in the places were it matters most. You can tell by the weight and appearance of the PB1000 that it's a budget-minded subwoofer. However, if they spent most of the money on a good driver, solid amp and custom DSP tuning then I'm OK with the appearance because ultimately it's the sound that matters most. SVS has a 5 year warranty on the 1000 series, which is unheard for budget subs, so they must be pretty confident about the quality of the parts inside.

That being said... if you have the extra $$ then the SB12 becomes very attractive. While I'm sure the SB1000 is a nice subwoofer I suspect the differences between it and the SB12 are such that the extra $150 might actually be a bargain.

I may reach out to Ed Mullen and see if he wants to send me an SB1000 too, so I can compare and contrast it with the PB1000. I specifically asked for the PB1000 because I thought that was going to be the unit most people wanted -- which does appear to be the case -- but it might be interesting to see in person what the differences between the two really is.
post #417 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

I'm going with dual pb1000 Jim thanks buddy smile.gif

You're very welcome. Now you're on the hook though; you have to come back and post your impressions after they've been set up and broken in. wink.gif
post #418 of 1194
That be great Jim if they send you one. I love my dual PB1000's so far. I moved them just tonight further towards the corners in my theater and watched taken 2. And some bits of 9 before it. Much louder for sure with more felt bass. Tomorrow I'll test some frequencies to see if the 40 and 70hz nulls i had went up at all. I have a feeling my sweet spot for the subs is where my Mains are and those can't be moved. Bummer.


Athanasios
post #419 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

You're very welcome. Now you're on the hook though; you have to come back and post your impressions after they've been set up and broken in. wink.gif
Well ill tell u this I'm super happy with my little velodyne I have now so I'm sure ill be happy with 2 pb1000's!! I'm only upgrading because everyone says what I have is junk !! smile.gif and since I got the veritas I might as well give them proper bass smile.gif
post #420 of 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I may reach out to Ed Mullen and see if he wants to send me an SB1000 too, so I can compare and contrast it with the PB1000. I specifically asked for the PB1000 because I thought that was going to be the unit most people wanted -- which does appear to be the case -- but it might be interesting to see in person what the differences between the two really is.

That would be great, Jim! I would hold out on my purchase of an SVS sub pending an A-B comparison of those two.

Hope Mr. Mullen is reading this. Ed, would you please loan Jim an SB1000 for review along side a PB1000? wink.gif
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