New SVS SB1000 & PB1000 Subwoofers!! - Page 24

It seems strange to me that moving the gain on the sub from 12 to 2 o'clock caused the receiver calibration to change that much. Did you double run each calibration to make sure they were correct? I think I read somewhere that you want to set your gain on the sub such that your receiver calibration ends up in the range from like -3 to + 1. If you have to set your sub gain 3/4 or higher to achieve this then your sub is probably undersized for the room it's in.

I had a 6db swing going 2 clicks on the gain according to my MCACC.

That is correct - the overall calibration level is identical. Since Audyssey turned down the AVR sub channel level 10 dB, that means the PB-1000 amp adds 10 dB of gain between 12 o'clock and 2 o'clock.

Since -10.5 is very close to the lower adjustment limit of -12, the sub gain was set almost too high pre-Audyssey. That is why we typically recommend 12 o'clock (or 1 o'clock in a large room) as a good starting point. This will almost always allow Audyssey to level match the subwoofer without running out of adjustment range in the sub channel level. Again if you see -12 post Audyssey, that's a red flag and means the sub was set too hot pre-Audyssey.

Once Audyssey is run and you have a sub calibration baseline (which is a combination of the sub gain and the AVR sub channel level), we don't recommend touching the sub gain again. If you want to run the sub hotter or cooler than what Audyssey recommends, make your adjustments at the AVR sub channel level. That way you'll have very precise control over gains or cuts, and you can go exactly back to the Audyssey baseline setting at any time.

Ed

Is the gain pot on the sub linear or is it some log function or something? Isn't like every 3db change like half or double the power (logarithmic)? I tested mine by turning it up 2 more clicks from the 1 o'clock position and the output was significantly higher like you said.

Hey thanks again for the helpful post Ed! It makes a lot of sense now.

My next question is what speakers is everyone using to compliment their PB-1000? I know that I am due for an upgrade in the speaker department as I'm still using some old no name tower speakers I pulled out of my uncles basement and I wanted to get an idea of what other people are using.

I'll be running my two PB-1000s with a pair of Philharmonic 2s and my SB-1000 with a pair of EMP Tek E41s or M-Lores.

I'm Using an "Old pair of Tower" Phase Technology PC800-HO's. So you never know those speakers from your uncles basement might be some nice speakers.

What are they just so we can be sure

Athanasios

This is a tribute to SVS subwoofers, that you would be looking to find speakers to compliment your sub ( and not the other way around - LOL ) !!

I do love my old 20-39pci cylinder !

Well, I don't have a PB/SB-1000...But...
I am running DefTech 8060-ST's with my PC12-PLUS. The SVS definitely rocks the house, a huge improvement, awesome sub...

The dB scale itself is a log10 function. But the scale on the gain control is linear - each hash mark represents the same amount of gain increase/decrease. The 10 dB increase observed when going from 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock on the PB-1000 is literally a tripling of the acoustic sound pressure.

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you all with my impressions. I've had my PB-1000 up and running for about a month now, used almost exclusively for movies, with a bit of Black Ops 2 thrown in.

Let's get the caveats out of that way: I am not an audiophile, I don't know much about HT gear, I am in my mid-forties and my ears are already fading some. I am strictly a lay-person, a total noob, when it comes to this gear.

That said, this sub is AWESOME. It is deep and clear and loud and rumbly in exactly the way I'd hope. It gets plenty loud to fill my approximately 18 x 15 x 8 basement. It makes the movie-watching experience for me. I find myself watching action sequences with it OFF, just so I can giggle with glee when I re-run the scene with it turned back on. If you recall my posts from earlier in this thread, I was wringing my hands over whether this would be "enough" sub for me and my little budget system (which you can read about here). I have no idea what I was concerned about -- it is way more than enough.

I realize now that the general level of discourse in this thread, and on this site in general, is very high. The folks that hang out here know their stuff and have incredibly high expectations of their gear. It can be daunting for us noobs. I'll just say this -- to all the layperson readers of this thread, but this sub with confidence.

Thanks again everyone!

I was wondering if ordering a PB1000 from Onecall would get me the whole customer bill of rights like ordering from SVS directly. Onecall has a $10 coupon and doesn't charge tax in NJ so total is $45 less than SVS direct. Note sure if the savings would be worth it.

Thanks

I asked SVS that same question, and they said you get all the same rights. OneCall is an authorized dealer. I almost ordered my SVS sub from OneCall, but the free shipping via FedEx is soooo slow. I ordered from SVS even though I had to pay sales tax living in Ohio, but I got it next day.

SVS's unique set of consumerism policies (collectively referred to as our 'Bill of Rights') only applies to direct sales between SVS and USA customers. OneCall has its own set of consumerism policies, which may (or may not) match SVS's policies in any given area. So it's best to contact OneCall directly to inquire about the specifics of their consumerism policies, so you can compare/contrast them as needed. The one exception is that SVS will handle any warranty related issues directly with the customer, even if the product was purchased through OneCall.

Hi Ed

I got a PB-1000 today and am very pleased with it. However, when I ran Audyssey (the PB-1000 level was set at 12 o'clock, very small room of 13 square meter) the receiver set the subwoofer gain to -13db. According to your theory I should re-adjust the leveler to 10-11 o'clock and re-run Audyssey, right or did I misunderstood something!?

 

That is correct. You need to lower the gain. I'd try 10 o'clock and run audyssey again..

Thank you for your assistance!

I lowered to gain on the sub to 10 o'clock, re-ran Audyssey and now the receiver (Onkyo TX-NR 616) set the sub to -7db. :-) Now I if I want some more bass and shaking I should only change the -dB setting in the receiver?

What is Dynamic EQ by the way? There is an option to turn this on after running Audyssey. Is it recommended?

You want it as close to 0 as you can get. I would turn it down a little more and run it again. -2 to +2 is fine. Then, after that you are correct. If you want to change the sub volume do,it only in the avr.

Why do you want it as close to 0 as possible? It is all relative right? I think that it is better to be a bit lower (e.g. -8). The other speakers will also be below 0 (mine are -5). So then i just turn up the center channel to always easily hear the dialogue, and I am not overdriving the speaker as I am not going above 0. But that is my own theory, not sure if it is valid.

 

-7 will work ok. I believe +/- 3 is recommended in the audyssey thread IIRC. It just gives you more leeway for adjusting in the receiver at the recommended gain level on the sub.

Edited by XStanleyX - 3/19/13 at 4:40pm

If the sub is at -7 you may also run into problems with the auto feature coming on at low volume.

OK, mine is actually at -9.5. What is the auto thing you are talking about? Should I re-run my setup again and get to -3 dB?

I dont own one. Doesnt it have an auto on feature. There should be a switch in the back that is for "On", "Off" or "Auto". Or something to that effect. The Auto mode will turn the sub on when it is getting a signal and turn it off when it is not getting a signal. If it is not getting a strong enough signal when you turn on your avr at low volume then the sub will not turn on until you turn up the avr louder. If this is the case it can often times be fixed by increasing the sub volume in the avr which increases the signal even at low volume.
And yes imo. I would rerun Audyssey and get it closer to 0 regardless.

A negative sub channel level is fine/preferred. It gives you some clean upward adjustability without pushing the AVR sub channel level into the positive region which can cause headroom/clipping problems in the pre-out. The auto-on circuit in the PB-1000 amp is very sensitive and you'll have no problems waking it up, even with an AVR sub channel level setting in the negative region.

So Ed, just to be clear, am I right to think that it is better to have a negative sub trim (-8 or - 9) so that you can increase the center channel for example as much as you need without going beyond 0 dB (prevent clipping, etc)? Or does getting the sub close to 0 dB have a positive impact on sound/performance?

If you mean 'increase the sub channel' then yes.

A self powered subwoofer channel has its own amp of course, and this allows the user to influence the post Audyssey AVR sub trim level. A post Audyssey setting of (for example) 1 o'clock on the subwoofer gain and -8 AVR sub level is preferred to 9 o'clock on the subwoofer gain and an AVR sub channel level of +8. Point being pushing the sub channel level well into the positive range can potentially result in higher distortion and pre-out headroom/clipping issues, so avoid doing this if possible.

In comparison, the speaker channels are passive, so Audyssey will set them wherever needed (positive or negative) in order the level match all the speaker channels. Speaker channels often vary greatly in terms of the SPL generated with the Audyssey test tone (due to differences in sensitivity and proximity to the mic) so it's not uncommon to see negative and positive levels post Audyssey.

So here is another finding, not sure if it is specific to my setup. I realized that the right side of the PB-1000 produces more bass than the left side (probably because of the port being on the left). So I had my sub sitting on the floor to the right of my TV and I kept noticing that every time I walk around the room to the right of the sub there is always more bass than my sitting position (left of the sub). At first I thought it was a placebo effect, but now that I think about it is could be logical due to the fact that the port is on the left. So I turned the sub sideways -- the speaker and port are pointing towards the tv, and the sub's right side points towards me. Guess what, I am getting considerably more bass now without changing the place of the sub, the knobs, nor the avr volume. It is not pretty and looks weird, but sound wise it is much better. Just thought I'd share it and because it maybe useful to somebody else.

Quick question: was watching Avatar today on my ascend sierras and my brand new SB 1000. Everything was fine. Then I put on CD with some music on my BR player and noticed that after while my sub went in standby mode (red LED). Why would that happen?
Thanks.

If your mains are set to full-range (aka full-band or large), then the subwoofer will not see any signal on 2-channel source material unless you bass manage the mains (i.e., select a speaker/sub crossover frequency) or select the menu option which forces the subwoofer to work on 2-channel even if the mains are running on full-range. This menu option is typically referred to as sub+mains, double-bass, etc. I recommend bass managing the Sierra's and not running them on full-range. Check your AVR bass management settings and the status of each speaker channel and the subwoofer.

Sub set to YES.
Front plus central speaker set to SMALL.

XOVER set to 80hz.

Sub volume set to 12 o'clock
Sub set to LEF.
LEF on AV set to 0dB

Sub set to auto/standby.