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any suggestions for cables? - Page 3

post #61 of 873
Well... I assumed all the exclamation marks gave it away. Oh well. biggrin.gif
post #62 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj 
no, that really doesn't sound "credible" at all...

Did you not notice the sarcasm?!!!!!?!?!!?

oops, sorry... redface.gif
post #63 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

I am sure some of of you know this and still claim high end wire does nothing.
I am sure that you know that "high end" wire is a scam and will not improve anything, but you will still claim that it does wink.gif
I am sure people would learn over the years if it's been explained over and over again. But there are exceptions. Either that or he is a shill for a cable vendor.
Staggering indeed: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1294666/cables-need-it/30#post_19700238
post #64 of 873
Diomania, this is one of the only forums on the internet where it is allowed for someone like yourself to preach their anti cable beliefs full time 24/7 without getting banned. Never two sides to the story because the swarm will smother out the "other side" as was done earlier in this thread. Motives for this? I can think of plenty at least in your case.

A shill? I could say the same, maybe you are on the payroll for a company/ies that would benefit from you convincing enthusiasts that higher end cables do nothing. The result being the customer now spends their money elsewhere in their systems and not on cables. Or are you merely a "professional hater" of the successfull cable company owners/engineers? You are clearly a hater of successfull people in general, and people who have expensive systems. It must be difficult listening to your home-theater-in a-box every night, after looking at the nice systems here on AVS. Oh, I forgot...maybe not because you believe that all cables, amps, processors, and avrs sound the same anyway. Denial is a very powerful thing...whatever gets you by.

A shill I am not. An ethusiast with an open mind and NO CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS I AM.

Once again, thank you for posting that link. I am sure it's wallpapered on your walls of your bedroom as you always keep it handy. That thread is an example that there can only be one view point on this forum and there is no room for a second. There are plenty of threads out there that show there are two sides to the glass or plastic toslink debate...just not on this forum.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1313377625&openfrom&1&4#1
Edited by G-Rex - 12/7/12 at 4:36pm
post #65 of 873
Shrill? Well, yes, in a manner of speaking, you are. wink.gif
post #66 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

Diomania, this is one of the only forums on the internet where it is allowed for someone like yourself to preach their anti cable beliefs full time 24/7 without getting banned. Never two sides two the story because the swarm will smother out the "other side" as was done earlier in this thread. Motives for this? I can think of plenty at least in your case.

I just found a great quote that addresses wire religion quite well: In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is “reality” and the other is “nonsense.”
post #67 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

A shrill? I could say the same, maybe you are on the payroll for a company/ies that would benefit from you convincing enthusiasts that higher end cables do nothing. The result being the customer now spends their money elsewhere in their systems and not on cables.

This is one of the more entertainingly speculative accusations I've ever encountered. If I owned a competing audio business, I'd immediately fire anyone who would implement such a poorly conceived tactic to grow my business. eek.gifbiggrin.gif
post #68 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

Diomania, this is one of the only forums on the internet where it is allowed for someone like yourself to preach their anti cable beliefs full time 24/7 without getting banned. Never two sides two the story because the swarm will smother out the "other side" as was done earlier in this thread. Motives for this? I can think of plenty at least in your case.
 

I can think of one: he's right.

post #69 of 873
So "entertainingly speculative"...really? I have heard this (let's call it a theory) on two occasions from those in the industry. I see that speaking in absolutes spans beyond just your views on cables. I can go months or years not posting on cables. I spend time on many different forums not just "cables." Many of you solely patrol the audio theory thread 24/7. Where is the motive to do this? Who in their right mind would do that for sheer entertainment and to "warn" unwearied customers of a poor and ill fated purchase. Seems a bit odd to me.
Edited by G-Rex - 12/7/12 at 2:39pm
post #70 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

I just found a great quote that addresses wire religion quite well: In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is “reality” and the other is “nonsense.”

+1
post #71 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

Diomania, this is one of the only forums on the internet where it is allowed for someone like yourself to preach their anti cable beliefs full time 24/7 without getting banned. Never two sides two the story because the swarm will smother out the "other side" as was done earlier in this thread. Motives for this? I can think of plenty at least in your case.
You seem bothered by it. But isn't it nice that there is nobody forcing you to come here? Or, is there?
Quote:
A shrill? I could say the same, maybe you are on the payroll for a company/ies that would benefit from you convincing enthusiasts that higher end cables do nothing. The result being the customer now spends their money elsewhere in their systems and not on cables. Or are you merely a "professional hater" of the successfull cable company owners/engineers? You are clearly a hater of successfull people in general, and people who have expensive systems. It must be difficult listening to your home-theater-in a-box every night, after looking at the nice systems here on AVS. Oh, I forgot...maybe not because you believe that all cables, amps, processors, and avrs sound the same anyway. Denial is a very powerful thing...whatever gets you by.

A shrill I am not. An ethusiast with an open mind and NO CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS I AM.
Oh well...
Quote:
Once again, thank you for posting that link. I am sure it's wallpapered on your walls of your bedroom as you always keep it handy. That thread is an example that there can only be one view point on this forum and there is no room for a second. There are plenty of threads out there that show there are two sides to the glass or plastic toslink debate...just not on this forum.
Have you ever done a real double blind test with audio cables? When I say real, I don't mean a double-blind-ish or pseudo double blind test.
post #72 of 873
Yes, as recent as two weeks ago I did a double blind test with the speaker cables and it made me realize how ignorant and closed minded some of you are. Speaking of religion, I see you have recruited some new disciples....well done. You must be proud. Have fun...
post #73 of 873
Quote:
Yes, as recent as two weeks ago I did a double blind test with the speaker cables
Which ones?
How did you manage the double-blind part?
How many trials, and how many correct?
If you don't mind my asking. smile.gif
post #74 of 873
Quote:
I have heard this (let's call it a theory) on two occasions from those in the industry.

Well G-Rex, it's not surprising that someone "in the industry" would come up with defensive speculations and justifying rationalizations to go on doing what they do. I really don't mean that cynically. It's a common and sincere human response when someones world view and financial interests are being challenged. Now, why you would find this particular theory (about negative shills to discourage, for example, premium cable spending) more plausible than the opposite is what I find more interesting. That is, your apparent finding of greater plausibility in the glib and seemingly substantive, but less-than-rigorously derived explanations in support of their cable products. Which they have a direct financial interest in promoting. The cause and effect is much more clear here.

On the other hand, the "theory" about negative shills who exist to discourage premium cable spending is a lot more tenuous of a connection. Spending less on one aspect of the audio system doesn't automatically equate to more money spent on another. People will just as likely or possibly more likely save that extra money not spent on "premium" cables instead of spending it at all. Or instead, use that extra money for other discretionary pursuits outside of audio.

Furthermore, if I owned say, an audio speaker company, and I was going to pay someone to do as your "in the industry" contacts suggest, I better damn well know that the money spent to discourage spending more on another branch of audio (i.e., cables), is all being spent on my branch AND more importantly, my specific products! biggrin.gif But there is no way to know that they will, is there? Sounds like a dumb way to attempt to promote spending on my products given the imprecisely causal method involved.

Your industry person or persons theory is an extreme reach, at best.
post #75 of 873
I think I'm gonna go to a board for biologists and argue that evolution isn't real.
After all, I heard from people in the industry that they haven't even found skeletons for the missing link! biggrin.gif
post #76 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

Diomania, this is one of the only forums on the internet where it is allowed for someone like yourself to preach their anti cable beliefs full time 24/7 without getting banned. Never two sides to the story because the swarm will smother out the "other side" as was done earlier in this thread. Motives for this? I can think of plenty at least in your case.
A shill? I could say the same, maybe you are on the payroll for a company/ies that would benefit from you convincing enthusiasts that higher end cables do nothing. The result being the customer now spends their money elsewhere in their systems and not on cables. Or are you merely a "professional hater" of the successfull cable company owners/engineers? You are clearly a hater of successfull people in general, and people who have expensive systems. It must be difficult listening to your home-theater-in a-box every night, after looking at the nice systems here on AVS. Oh, I forgot...maybe not because you believe that all cables, amps, processors, and avrs sound the same anyway. Denial is a very powerful thing...whatever gets you by.
A shill I am not. An ethusiast with an open mind and NO CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS I AM.
Once again, thank you for posting that link. I am sure it's wallpapered on your walls of your bedroom as you always keep it handy. That thread is an example that there can only be one view point on this forum and there is no room for a second. There are plenty of threads out there that show there are two sides to the glass or plastic toslink debate...just not on this forum.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1313377625&openfrom&1&4#1

First of all very, very, few of these esoteric cable vendors have any TRACEABLE formal engineering education. So let's not use the term "engineer" so loosely.

Second it is a fact that outside of a few tiny audiophile recording studios, none of the mainstream recording studios, television production facilities, or motion picture studios audio departments buy into this cable crap. I know because that's the business i have been in for 30 years. The major cable suppliers are Belden, Mogami, Gepco (Commscope), and Canare. These companies fully document and publically disclose standard engineering specifications for their products. Show me the audiophile vendors that do that!

Furthermore the professional electronics community, answering to IEEE and other world wide industry governing bodies, do not support these claims made by these charlatan cable makers.

As I always ask in these debates, why are all these advanced electrical transmission discoveries the audiophile cable companies claim soley restricted to the high end audio industry? If there was any substance don't you think the computer networking and general communications industry would be all over it? Look at the advancements in Solar panel technology and all electric cars like the Tesla. Wouldn't these companies be interested in wire with magic conduction properties? Why are these magic power transfer theories only viable in speaker cable or a CD player power cord?
post #77 of 873
Quote:
I can go months or years not posting on cables.

Excellent, keep it up.
post #78 of 873
I find grex claim of blind testing quite interesting. Typically, this magic ability can only be performed with eyes open. Now grex has upped the ante... and can perform his feat with his eyes closed... so long as no one else is watching! smile.gif

Sounds like he has invoked the Heisenberg uncertainty principle of cable testing... there are differences... until an outside observer of the system peeks in and disturbs the quantum magic.

I expect to see JPS take full credit for this and include it in their next ad copy.
post #79 of 873
I thought that was the double slit test. I thought the Heisenberg uncertainty principle would mean he could not know the cable brand and distinguish the sound at the same time?eek.gif
Edited by Just cruising - 12/9/12 at 8:03am
post #80 of 873
Alright. You guys wanted a watertight cable test and I've got one for you. Oh boy, I've got one for you!!?!?!

Quote:
Another week, another test.

One perticilurly good recording, with elements or bass, mids and airy highs.

3 Suspects

(a) Van Den hul Silver TC
(b) Kimber KCAG
(c) The R4.95 RCA

as reference. Siltech SQ88

Please note that even at 1500 euro for most expensive one here, this is NOT high end cable - more medium level.

Two victims, one audiophile the other never been exposed to high end hifi and a videophile.

I played same song with each of the cable, asked each person to say

1) DID they hear a difference ?
2) Which sounded best and worst

I repeated the test 15 times, swapping cables at random, twice not swapping

I didnr have KPGM to verify the results BUT this is what I found

I had (c) in the test 5 times:

The RCA (c) was identified 5/5 times AND but only 4/5 times considered the worst by both listeners.

I had (b) in the system 7 times and (c) 3 times

(a) and (b) was felt almost to close to call BUT even with that slight difference

(a) was picked by BOTH people 5/7 times to be the best and nicest sounding (b) 2 times and the rest undecided..

The BAD news ?

The RCA sounded too good to be in there! It should have been bad bad :Ooooooh:

Comparing the VanDen Hul with a Siltech SQ88 (1500 euro) made almost no difference... no conclusive decision could be made if the sound changed or not.... to all the listeners it "sounded the same"

That concludes my experiment on interconnects. I am happy I COULD hear differences. I COULD 100% identify the RCA :clap:

But DAMMIT I should not have bought the expensive Siltechs :nutter: Albeit at 75% discount. If I paid the full R20k I would have been pulling my hair out.

Now for speaker cables :sweat:

Suck on that cable haters. You wanted a perfectly valid, scientific test and you got one! Proof beyond reason that cabling can be pointed out under strict, heavily controlled, scientific conditions!!!!!!!!?
post #81 of 873
can i assume that's sarcasm again? smile.gif
post #82 of 873
Do *I* sound like I'm being sarcastic?????????? You think I'm playing games here???
post #83 of 873
Quote:
That concludes my experiment on interconnects. I am happy I COULD hear differences. I COULD 100% identify the RCA :clap:

 

When you swapped it over you mean? :)

post #84 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

You wanted a perfectly valid, scientific test and you got one!
We did? eek.gif Where?
Quote:
under strict, heavily controlled, scientific conditions!!!!!!!!?
It was? eek.gif How so?
post #85 of 873
"I am happy I COULD hear differences. I COULD 100% identify the RCA :clap"

now, isn't that scienterrific enough?
post #86 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by diomania 
It was? eek.gif How so?

I was hoping for you to tell me???
post #87 of 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

I was hoping for you to tell me???
"under strict, heavily controlled, scientific conditions!!!!!!!!?" <-- 8 exclamation marks vs 1 question mark. You know which way it leads to.
post #88 of 873
Has anyone tried spraying this:

All over your receiver/amp motherboard to help keep the electrons moving efficiently on those tiny traces?
post #89 of 873
Someone will actually claim this stuff ^^^ makes a great difference and opens the soundstage by at least 15ft horizontally and 7.5 feet vertically. The chemical mix is not certified for metric spatial calculations or for latitudes more than 50 degrees above or below the equator. The lows will be gut wrenching as opposed to merely wall shaking, the mids will reveal instruments not even in the original recording and the highs will be clear enough above the 100khz range so as to be detectable on submerged submarine sonar up o twenty miles away.
post #90 of 873
If anyone can point out flaws in this scientific experiment you will win a prize.
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