Disney's BRAVE - Page 4

Watched a rental copy playing thru an Oppo BDP-105 no dropouts and the video and audio were very good. Why do some members assume Nemo will have the same dropout problem when you haven't even viewed Nemo on your own system yet?

I think that is the big difference and agree there is no real villian and more of a lesson on not being self centered and the result of being that way. I was wondering that maybe for some adult women it will depend on their own relationships growing up with their own mothers, were they that way growing up? I thought about that after viewing the movie as it does deal with a sensitive subject amongst mothers and daughters. She is definitely a brat no doubt about that as a most girls that age are and they aren't princesses! I enjoyed the story and what she learns because of her selfish actions. My 18 year old daughter loved it.

It's the idea that Disney is doing something new in their encoding process that's causing the issue. Brave being the first, but if the theory is true, then all Disney titles from this point forward will have dropout problems until someone fixes it.

I have watched both Brave and Nemo and have had no problems with either one and they were bitsreamed.

Because with Brave and Pixar Shorts v2 being the two most recent Disney/Pixar Blu-rays and with audio dropouts being reported for both of these (and for no other dics by all of those reporting it) - the fear that the situation will continue to Nemo the next Disney/Pixar is quite reasonable.

And based on initial reports, the fear is founded.

However, it seems to me that is is likely more of an AVR decoding issue than a player issue.

I have experienced dropouts on Brave with my Oppo 83 to Yamaha 1800 combination.

I will test Nemo when it arrives later this week - I suspect i will have issues.

I'll change my Oppo from bitstream to LPCM and hopefully the issue goes away.

Count me among those who experienced the audio dropouts (and never with any other disc) -- two in the first few minutes, but not thereafter.

Additionally, in 3D, did anyone else notice what looked like it might possibly have been a failure to integrate the double imaging in alot of the background scenes? Appeared as kind of like a static transparent overlay of the background shapes which was supposed to become 3D depth, but failed to focus up properly? Even with this aspect, the depth of field was considerable, so perhaps they were shooting for something beyond the actually achieveable parameters of 3D for your TV?

I have the audio drop out as well with 3D & trueHD 7.1, switching to 5.1 solved the problem.
Watched again in 2D + trueHD 7.1 with no problem

Could it be the bandwidth problem?

using a Sony S485, Onkyo NR808 with monoprice highspeed 3' HDMI cable

Didn't notice dropouts, but was aware of a great deal of Subwoofer stuff.

The movie is really for adults and, in that way, reminds me of The Incredibles.
Loved the Scottish brogue...

Same here - both "Brave" & "Finding Nemo" (2D, USA) played perfectly using the Dolby TrueHD audio track bitstreamed in my system (Sony BDP-S1000ES to Yamaha RX-V3900). Absolutely no audio dropouts of any kind. I did notice that regardless of whether you choose 7.1 or 5.1 audio via the disc menu, it feeds 7.1 TrueHD to my receiver.
We thoroughly enjoyed both blu-ray titles - highly recommended!

I have audio dropouts with my copy of Brave as well. I have an Oppo BDP-80 feeding a Denon 2808. I even had an audio dropout during the end credits of La Luna. Came here to see if others were having the issue or if I needed to take my copy back to the store.

Have you tried switching to LPCM on the OPPO?

-Bill

i have the bdp-80 as well. i switched to LPCM and it solved the dropout issue.

No issues with either one, 3D versions played through PowerDVD on PC. It'll probably be a while before I watch them in 2D on the set-top box.

One thing I noticed with my Oppo BDP-80 bitstreaming 7.1 to a Pioneer VSK-1021k:

The dropouts always occured milliseconds before an audio peak. Since we are of course seeing and hearing the movie after the data is processed -- and since the decoded in the player has no trouble with the disc -- it made me suspect that the processor in the AVR was being overtaxed. Unlike the player's processor, the AVR is also doing bass management, room correction, maybe DSP, and decoding the DTHD 7.1 stream.

Just a theory -- one perhaps supported by the reports of higher-end pre/pros not having an issue with the title.

At exactly 1:12 the audio drops out completely every time and a few seconds later the video freezes and doesn't recover unless I hit fast forward for a quick second. At exactly 5:13 I experience a brief audio drop only which is also repeatable at will. Didn't check the other time stops. Just switched the BD audio option in my Sony BDP-CX7000ES to "mixed" versus "direct", so that I could enjoy the film from start to finish without interruption. The moment the audio dropped and a few seconds later the video froze I knew this was yet another title with authoring issues with respects to the Dolby TrueHD 7.1 track. Have the same issue with Total Recall 2012 as have many others. No issues at all with Finding Nemo however, another recent Disney/Pixar Dolby TrueHD 7.1 release, so clearly my equipment is capable of getting the job done. Finding Nemo uses seamless branching as well of course as do most if not all the Pixar titles.
Edited by Low Profile - 1/4/13 at 7:09pm

I have a ton of audio drop outs with Brave. They tend to happen at the audio peaks and consistently in the same places. I have yet to try it in a different blu-ray player other than the two Samsung P1500s I own. Yes, they're old. Both the players were connected to the Yamaha when I tested. They are also running into a Yamaha 663 via HDMI. The audio dropouts only happen with the Dolby TrueHD track. When I switch to the LPCM track, no troubles at all.

Glad I came across this thread. I'll post back when I'm able to try everything again with a different blu-ray player.

-pat

Yamaha 663
Samsung P1500
Panasonic Plasma

I might as well join the club. I'm having similar issues, but audio drop outs do NOT occur at random parts and do NOT happen as frequently as some of you have said. I've already watched the movie 3 times just to prove the drop outs do not happen at random parts. There is a scene where Merida is repeating the words, "Needle and thread, needle and thread, needle and thread". Immediatly after this, the chase scene with King Fergus begins and boom....this is where the audio cuts off. This is approximately 1 hour, 14 minutes and 31 seconds. Then, audio cuts off a couple more times during the end credits. If I rewind the disc to the same spots where drop outs occur, it will play fine. So technically, I only get one audio drop out if you do not count the drop outs during the end credits (I normally eject the disc anwyay, once end credits appear on the screen). This is annoying, but other than that, I have NO other blu rays, Pixar movies or any other titles that get audio drop outs. I don't own Finding Nemo yet. Remember that recently many follks complained that Total Recall 2012 had a bunch of audio drop outs throughout the movie. I couldn't believe it until I rented the blu ray from a Redbox. Sure enough, this disc had the worst audio drop outs I have ever experienced, making the movie unwatchable. Although I didn't like the movie, the drop outs were still bothersome. I kept thinking it was my equipment. I currently have a Sony STR-DA3600ES receiver paired with a Sony BDP-S790 blu ray player, using a Panny GT30 50 inch plasma. All connected via HDMI Sonic Wave cables (not cheap cables). I'm hoping Sony issues a firmware on my BDP-S790 that would fix the issue on the Brave disc.
Edited by Audio5oh - 1/14/13 at 10:46pm

Disney BRAVE audio drop out here as well!

Brand new Samsung BD-E5900 Bluray player and an older Sony STR-DE985.

This is just the 3rd Bluray disc played with this set up... but, no sound drop outs for Harry Potter DH part 1 and no sound drop outs for Harry Potter DH part2. Only sound drop outs for Disney Brave. And lots of them. I have gone UNLOCK over a dozen time during this movie. I even updated the Samsung player's software and tried again. Still, Disney Brave dropped sound. Usually in the same spots. It will drop sound when set to 7.1. It will drop sound when set to 5.1. Only when the Bluray disc was set to Stereo did the spot check play through with out dropping the sound.

The Samsung BD-E5900 is connected to the STR-D985 through a coax connection.

This is a multiple disc set. So if people want, I can try a non-3D Bluray, a DVD and a digital copy.

I'm not sure what is going on. Is it the Samsung Bluray player? Is Disney using a different format? Is it the DTS/DD decoder in the Sony stereo? A ground loop in my gear? A defective Disney Bluray disc?

Based on Harry Potter DH part 1 & 2 working, I am inclined to say that Disney has changed something or is making bad Bluray discs.

Bummer.


Edit:: (Added later...)

Tested the non-3D Bluray disc:

Same problem. The Disney non-3D Bluray Brave Movie disc skips in (about) the same places as the Disney 3D Bluray Brrave Movie disc. Passage tested: Several minutes into the movie (first horse ride and archery scene). Skips about when the horse jumps the fallen tree and (sometimes) again when horse is on it's back. Again, this happens when the disc is set to play back in 7.1 & 5.1 sound. But not when played back in stereo.

Tested the DVD disc:

No problem. The Disney DVD Brave Movie played back the above passage with no problems in 5.1. Note, there is no 7.1 offered on the Disney DVD version of Brave. Since there was no problem playing back 5.1 I didn't bother to test the stereo setting.

Did not test the data disc:

Even though the Samsung Bluray player understood this was a data disc, was able to move from directory to directory and display all files in each directory ... it could not play the files.

Edit: (Added later...)

This is interesting... Did you know how many audio formats are mentioned over at blu-ray.com? I am wondering if BRAVE is using something "new":

Linear PCM (LPCM) - up to 8 channels of uncompressed audio. (mandatory)
Dolby Digital (DD) - format used for DVDs, 5.1-channel surround sound. (mandatory)
Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) - extension of Dolby Digital, 7.1-channel surround sound. (optional)
Dolby TrueHD - lossless encoding of up to 8 channels of audio. (optional)
DTS Digital Surround - format used for DVDs, 5.1-channel surround sound. (mandatory)
DTS-HD High Resolution Audio - extension of DTS, 7.1-channel surround sound. (optional)
DTS-HD Master Audio - lossless encoding of up to 8 channels of audio. (optional)

And when you compare Blurays and DVD there is a difference w.r.t. audio:

Audio codecs
Linear PCM
Dolby Digital
Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby TrueHD
DTS Digital Surround
DTS-HD
Linear PCM
Dolby Digital
DTS Digital Surround

...ug, that pasted horribly. And I don't see a fix width font here at avsforum.com. Let's just say that there is no support for the last 3 (Dolby TrueHD, DTS Digital Surround & DTS-HD) w.r.t. DVD formats. So if BRAVE is using one of these there might be a problem with older decoders.
Edited by st5000 - 1/20/13 at 3:56pm

Just watched this one all the way through on a Sony BDP-S590, not a single dropout. Bitstream 5.1 out through optical. I'm guessing that's just old-school DD5.1, but it doesn't appear to have the problem. That would seem to indicate an issue specifically with the audio track and not to do with the video splits.

I'm still guessing, but I don't think audio drop out has anything to do with the Bluray player. That is, assuming the Bluray player is simply passing the digital audio out the optical/coax toslink/spdif port. I think it has to do with the decoding of the digital audio in your Amplifier. I think that the newer digital audio formats that are defined (i.e. available for use) that could be used by the Bluray disc publisher/creator may not be totally compatible with many of the digital decoders hidden away inside of our A/V Amplifiers.

So, I'm thinking this is more to the point, what Digital Audio Decoder A/V Amplifier are you using? Mine is a Sony.

You are listening to the back up Dolby Digital lossy track via optical. The DD track is a separate audio file from the Dolby TrueHD lossless file. That's why you aren't experiencing a problem. DTS-MA works differently as it uses a lossy-core+lossless data extension model and is a single file.

Disney is probably using Dolby TrueHD now because they can have a separate 5.1 mix and 7.1 extension mix in the same file (TrueHD 5.1 and 7.1 discrete encoding works similarly to DTS-MA's core+extension model in that respect).

I have a very high end AVR. Some BR players I've tried have the dropouts, some don't. So, it is NOT the AVR. It is piss poor authoring, probably something to do with some anti-piracy scheme. When will the Bozo studio heads realize the only people affected by their stupid schemes are the people actually paying for the discs? HDCP, Cinavia and the like have about zero impact on piracy. I'm sure it must impact sales though. People get sick of the hassle. If there is a problem with a disc you bought, return it and demand a refund. That is the only way these mental midgets will ever get aware, and possibly fix the problem. (Or, more likely, stop causing problems.).

Regardless of how "high end" an AVR is,
How does a sub $200 player manage to decode the audio into a flawless pcm audio stream from these very same so-called "flawed" disc's?
Even when played through an entry level AVR for many users?

Seems to me it's primarily an issue when the AVR is asked to perform the decoding. Not the player and not the disc's for most of us pcm users who don't decode at the AVR level.
If the disc's were defective then even those decoding in the player to pcm (and not bitstreaming to the AVR for decoding) should also have issues.
It's not like PS3 users decoding at the player to pcm are accessing a different audio track...it's the same info the AVR has to process correct?
Does the player just filter something out before sending pcm to the AVR?

PS3 sending pcm to my Yamaha RX-V3900 has never had a hiccup in 4+ years.
I'm almost tempted to pick up a slim PS3 to see what all this bitstreaming fuss is about,
then return it promptly and go back to reliable pcm.

All my HDMI sources send audio via pcm, PS3, XBOX360, Toshiba HD DVD and Motorola HD cable.

If I want to see what audio formats my ps3 is decoding,
One button on my remote can pull up all the info I need and put it on-screen
...I don't need to light up my AVR for that.


Edited by PioManiac - 1/30/13 at 10:51am

It's not an AVR issue, regardless of your experience. Some devices decode these discs, some don't. The same AVR can have no problems with one disc on one player, yet put the same disc in another player and all of a sudden the AVR has no problem decoding it. There is more going on behind the scenes than just sending an audio signal. There's a lot of information being passed that is not audio. For instance, if a bad signal were to interfere with HDCP information, you would get audio dropouts if the audio was decoded at the AVR, but you would not get those audio dropouts if the audio is decoded in the player. You are correct in that passing a PCM signal will be more reliable than passing a bitstream signal. PCM audio will not dropout if there is an EDID or HDCP hiccup. However, not all devices will pass lossless audio via PCM. For instance, a Dune media player will down convert 7.1 Lossless audio to 2.0 lossless audio if you select PCM.

There are standards for HDMI audio. if they are met, any functioning device should be able to decode the audio flawlessly. Just because one player decodes more than the standard, does not make discs that play in that player correct. If a disc meets standards, ALL devices should be able to decode the signal. That's the whole point of having a standard.

HDMI is far more complex than just sending a video and audio signal. Standards must be met for the whole chain to function correctly. It is more than obvious that these discs do not meet those standards. Some chains of equipment may pass the signal correctly, others may not. That is the definition of a flawed disc.

I'm glad a Sony PlayStation meets your requirements and that it passes PCM audio. However, not everyone wants a Sony PlayStation, or would be satisfied with it as a media player. Properly authored discs will play properly in ALL devices, not just a few. The fact that the vast majority of discs play just fine in all devices, show that if the standards are met, the system works.

The biggest problem is actually HDCP. Any hiccup at all in the HDCP chain and you have problems. There's lots of ways for HDCP to have hiccups too. For instance, plug the HDMI audio output of a Video Processor into an AVR. Plug the HDMI video output of that VP into a display device. Now, plug the HDMI video output of the AVR into a second HDMI input of the same display. Seems like it should work fine, right? Maybe. The odds are high that you'll have audio dropouts due to confusion in the HDCP chain. The only way to get rid of them is to unplug or deactivate the AVR video out. HDCP works fine plugging one device into a display. Every time you add anything to the chain, even an AVR, you start increasing the odds you'll have a HDCP hiccup. EDID causes problems as well.