Tv advice please. $2k budget

I'd recommend the Sony HX850. Buy it locally with easy return policy in case there is any banding.

I was in similar quandry. from everything I read, plasma was the way to go from perspective of picture quality. But then I started reading about burnin or even just image retention. I switched to looking for an LED. I don't play games on it (at least not yet), and i don't watch a lot of sports, but I do watch marathon sessions of Tennis whenever the one of the Grand Slams is on, and this is 10-12 hours of tennis for 12 days straight. I didn't want to give that up.

I decided to check out LEDs. One of the LEDs on my list of possibles was the SamsungES6500. May I ask why you are returning it?

I've ended up ordering a Vizio. There have been some good reports for a few of their models. I haven't recieved mine yet, so I can't say what I think about the pic quality. But you could read some of the threads.

Rick

+1

how about LG 55LM7600? specs comparison with UN55ES6500 looks quite competitive,
http://tv-compare.blogspot.com/2012/09/samsung-un55es6500-vs-lg-55lm7600.html

If not, then you might just be best advised to pull the trigger on one of those (850) via an online vendor and have it delivered, as these will probably be your best PQ option in the range you're targeting for an LED lit set. Alternatively, if you are committed to buying it locally/physically, why don't you present what your options are in that range and people can help you reach a decision based on that list?

Here's the factors that effect the choice in my mind for you. One question is:

1) How important is the 3D to you in an absolute sense? ,

2) ...and then, how important is the quality of said 3D?

The LG is going to have the lower total cost associated with the 3D aspect for sure given the passive technology and cheaper glasses. With the Sony you can figure ~$30 per set of glasses at the moment (assuming Playstation brand for polarization and lesser expense). On the other hand, the HX750 will give you higher resolution 3D. Again, it just depends on what matters to you with regard 3D.

With NetFlix and such, both have you covered. The Sony has further access to a broader wealth of Internet content, but honestly if you're on the 360 & PS3, you're probably going to be going through those anyway.

The big caveat on the LG, and it may or may not matter, is that the panel is not a 120Hz panel (despite the claim to the contrary). Read this: http://hdguru.com/lg-55lm6700-hdtv-review-when-120-hz-isnt-120-hz-updated/8281/

Now, that may not be a deal killer, and it won't effect the beauty of the image on the screen at any moment in time. I do think it's an attractive set and there's a case to be made for the inexpense of passive 3D. For myself, I would probably go with the HX750, but for either one, your main hope will be to receive a set with minimal or no clouding. Which isn't bad odds, it's just something to watch out for.

I'd get that one. I have last year's 65" passive LG (65LW6500). So I'm assuming much of what I'm going to say will be applicable.

- Nice picture quality. Yes, not as good as a plasma (I have one too), but quite good. Picture quality has come a long way since my first LCD (2008 Philips).
- Reasonably good blacks. Plenty bright for daytime viewing. Good viewing angles. Full range of settings for fine calibration.
- Smart TV if that's important ( I use my HTPC for that). It works, that's about all I can say, having done a little testing.
- 3D is very good at reasonable viewing distance (~ 1.5x screen size). You can download demos and may find you really like it.
- Uneven backlighting and flashlighting is not noticeable (to me) if I stay away from "Vivid" settings and don't crank up the backlighting. Mind you, this site has a lot of very discriminating videophiles who will tell you not to get an edge-lit LED/LCD under any circumstances. All I can say is I have to look very intently to detect said problems on my set. I have to have the room darkened and view a dimly lit scene with solid color background to see it.
- The inbuilt media player is the exception to the rule that such players always suck. I can play MKVs (Blu-Ray re-encodes) directly from external ntfs formatted powered hard drives. Plus a lot of other file types. Nice feature, and I dunno why they don't tout it more.
- Motion interpolation is very good, and adjustable. (Turned off on my Philips).
- I don't play video games, but there's a game mode that supposedly turns off most picture processing. Dunno about input lag.

Good luck whatever you get, and post back with your reactions.

The LM7600 - if that's the one - is certainly a better set than the 6700 in absolute terms. I don't think you'll go wrong with either, the input lag is the only question. I know that the Sony's game mode is very good as far as input lag goes; you can probably check the LG's owner thread and get the answer for the LM7600 fairly easily as well. If it all washes out the same, I feel you're pulling towards the LG - no reason to hold back if that's the case. Check on that game mode though!

The ST50 many here would say has the better absolute PQ of the three, but honestly it seems plasmas and gaming can be a rough matchup sometimes.

The irony is that "cheaper" TVs generally have less input lag, because there is less video processing that goes on on the back end. Of course the type of game plays a big role itself, as some games will not be trigger-finger dependent. On many a modern TV though, on default settings, you will definitely feel it.

With plasmas, yeah certainly burn-in on HUD/static-related elements and such, but ghosting can be an issue as well depending on the game. I wouldn't think that any permanent burn-in would be a concern though vs temporary image retention.

Question: Your older Hitachi plasma - what inputs did you use to connect with?

Ok, just curious - didn't know whether it might've been an older 480p set or something, which traditionally didn't have any input lag at all.

Go get a TV already!

Well, on the LG I don't know that it does or it doesn't (with respect to its game mode). Just something which I thought you might want to verify in advance since you do game.

With the other questions...

1) Judder.. I'm going to gloss over this, as it's slightly contentious and some people don't even see it. But it would be akin to like a slight jerkiness in the picture. Honestly it shouldn't be a problem on either LCD set; some people see it more on plasmas. Again though, some don't notice it at all.

2) Ghosting would be when a fast moving object on the screen leaves sort-of a trail behind it that exists for longer than its presence on the source would determine. Think of a mouse trail on older monitors, but for larger objects/scenery. More endemic in plasmas due to the phosphor-based technology.

3) Soap opera effect will be maxing out the processing and taking advantage of the 120Hz refresh rates on the panels. It will make everything look more "real." It's honestly a good thing from a pure video clarity perspective, but since it interferes with the display of content replay at its native frame rate, some people hate it. This gets especially contentious concerning 24p movie content, and is at its least contentious around sports and games.

4) Lag is the amount of time necessary for the screen to display the action taken by you via either a PC or game console. At the height of their processing abilities, some TVs will introduce significant lag, which is the game mode stuff I was talking about. On TVs with bad lag, believe me, like in an FPS multiplayer - you will feel it, and hate it. You will literally be a second behind in terms of all actions.

5) Via DLNA considerations, I am sure you would be able to. But I defer on this one since I don't know for sure (as I don't do it myself).

6) Cloudiness will be an issue with edge-lit LED sets for the most part. So, the Sony and the LG potentially. It's case-by-case; the design lends itself to the issues, but the issue seems to be caused by the manufacture of each and every set individually. Generally, it will manifest as areas of excess brightness or light in dark scenes, in the corners or along the edges of the set. The TV may not have any. And then again, it might.

7) I think the PlayStation brand polarized glasses would help in this regard vs the Sony TV targeted ones, but yeah, for headaches passive would be the safer route if you suffer from that. Of course 3D can be ignored altogether.

8) Noise would be like a grain effect where there shouldn't be one. Just... black or white fine-grained splotchiness. I wouldn't worry too much about it on TVs at this level; most noise will be source-driven.

9) Picture artifacts would be when the scene changes suddenly but due to processing failure or display response time some section of the previous frame is left stuck into the new frame for a split-second. When it crops up, it'll usually be in scenes of extreme color change.

10) I don't think motion blur (as far as mushy images) will be a concern on any of these.

11) Yeah... that you will be able to fine-tune and adjust on each set with certain settings. I have to think that each and every one of them on factory settings will *not* give you the best they can perform on text or PC input. Sharpness settings will play a big role.

12) That's a processing issue again, and your other TVs don't suffer from it because they aren't processing the image. Some TVs do fail at scenes like that. But these three should all handle it well.
Edited by xbdestroya - 12/1/12 at 3:29pm

Okay, you have a lot of questions there, and I don't grudge you that. You're gonna have to live with your choice a while.

First, here's where I'm coming from: long-time serious video hobbyist who's only incidentally interested in display tech. I began with VHS captures for myself. Soon I had pro level decks, TBCs (time base correctors), and had learned Avisynth for cleaning up /filtering /manipulating digital video. Lossless codecs and lots of hard drive space. It grew into almost a side job, but most folks who want to save their VHS home movies have done so by now. I'm still in the hobby though.

I have to chuckle when guys talk about accurate displays. If they only knew all the trickery involved in video, and how subjective it can be. Especially restoration, though it applies in post production as well. Anyway, there is *NO* perfect display. Lots of hobbyists still use top end CRTs, some pros too. So did I until mine died. What did I replace it with? A top-end Viewsonic LCD monitor. Go to videohelp.com and ask why if you're interested. Mind you, I'm referring to actual editing/cleanup work on the computer, and not to regular viewing.

Plasma vs LED/LCD? They both have their strengths and weaknesses. For the plasma purists who carp about edge-lit backlighting, I say: IR (image retention) and how about it? Even the new ones will get IR if there's a channel logo showing for any length of time. Burn in, not so much nowadays.

Okay, here we go:

1) Judder. usually this refers to the conversion necessary to display 24 fps (frames per second) video on a 60 Hz display. Look up "pulldown judder". Not a problem with any of the sets you're interested in, so don't worry. Then there's the jerkiness you'll see on a slow pan with film material. That's a limitation of the frame rate, and only motion interpolation (creation of intermediate frames) can help that.

You have to understand how digital video is compressed. You have an "I" frame or reference frame with all the frame's information. Like a bitmap. The I frame begins a GOP (group of pictures) in which a P frame references the frame before it and only specifies differences, mainly in motion vectors. B frames can reference frames before and after. All this means the video can be stored in much less space.

So how does motion interpolation work? It uses motion vectors, very much as explained above. Or call it the "average" of two frames, the newly created frame being inserted between the two. That's why higher Hz rating matters, as it affects the possible frame rate, making interpolation possible. I won't even get into interlaced video.

Which leads to:

3) Soap Opera Effect. The result of interpolation or smoothing. Some film purists don't like it, I do. If it's good that is. It's the best you can do with the low frame rates we have now. When I see a slow pan I want it to be smooth. Decide for yourself.

(Notice I skipped #2. I don't think it's much of an issue, but maybe someone else will tackle that one. Though for some material, motion interpolation can introduce occasional ghosting).

4) Lag. Again, I don't game, but if you turn off all unnecessary processing with game mode, it shouldn't be a problem. Look up the response times or search the relevant owner's threads as suggested.

5) Smartphone video. I just dunno, don't have one, but I'd bet the LG can display it.

6) Cloudiness. Not sure if you mean uneven backlighting/flashlighting or something else. Something else would qualify as a defect. Anyway, I addressed the former as pertains to the LG.

7) Active vs passive. I've read some reviews that said the Sony active glasses were hands-down the worst active glasses. Others are available that are supposedly better. Or maybe you're one of the not insignificant minority who just gets headaches with active 3D. No guarantee that you won't with passive as well, but I'd bet not.

8) Noise. Sometimes it's inherent in the source material, sometimes it's the image processing in the set. I'll leave it to others to elaborate as it pertains to displays.

Which leads to:

9) Artifacts. Sometimes it's compression artifacts inherent in the video, usually from over-compression. Like with cable HD. MPEG2 will exhibit macroblocking, AVC will exhibit posterization and banding. Then there are display artifacts, often from over-sharpening or overly-aggressive noise reduction. In the latter cases, you have some measure of control in the TV's settings. Others can elaborate further.

10) Motion blur. I would hope not also. Or at least nothing that isn't inherent in the video.

11) Jaggy text shouldn't be a problem unless you're overly sensitive or there's a defect.

12) Jerkiness again? Already covered. But again, much will depend on your subjective perception.

I thought you were gonna get your TV today?

[EDIT] Ha, XB beat me to it! I can't type fast enough, or maybe I should cut out the long-winded answers.
Edited by fritzi93 - 12/1/12 at 3:46pm

My problem is I did the requisite shopping earlier this morning, so now I'm just in front of the computer.

You mentioned the magic remote, which I guess means you got the LG? I'd get the regular remote as well. The magic wand is especially useful for using the inbuilt media player.

First thing I'd do is put it in Standard mode and check the backlighting. (Backlighting will be at 80, which I should think is the highest you should ever go, though lower will be better). Play something with dimly lit scenes and solid background. Change inputs and you'll get a gray screen momentarily, which will show up any unevenness. Then of course a good bit of regular viewing to determine if you can see it then. This would apply to any edge-lit set. See if it's acceptable to you.

We can give you some tips once we're sure which set you got.



.

Fyi best buy and hhgregg now have a 60in lg 240hz TV in the 60lm7200. I think they are going for $1699