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Tv advice please. $2k budget

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
Hi. I'm looking for a tv that is between 50" - 55". $2k budget.

I just got the Samsung UN55ES6500. I will return it this week.

I watch HDTV Directv, BluRay, Netflix and game with my Xbox 360 and PS3. Mostly use Directv. Mosly watch HDTV shows.

I don't know what to do. Plasma in my opinion is the best tv overall except for burn in. Best colors, darkness, smooth moving with such a high refresh rate and best view angle etc. but with games there's burn in.

I can try to limit burn in by gaming less per session, and hopefully the tv would have anti burn in features to also help. However I still would be worried about burn in.

I think I would prefer non Plasma as burn in is a big issue. However I'm concerned that non Plasma won't be very good for viewing angle, colors/hazy looking and fast moving objects etc.

I'm looking for some feedback, suggestions and general dialog please. And truly, thank you to all.
post #2 of 46
Thread Starter 
Anyone????
post #3 of 46
I'd recommend the Sony HX850. Buy it locally with easy return policy in case there is any banding.
post #4 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Hi. I'm looking for a tv that is between 50" - 55". $2k budget.
I just got the Samsung UN55ES6500. I will return it this week.
I watch HDTV Directv, BluRay, Netflix and game with my Xbox 360 and PS3. Mostly use Directv. Mosly watch HDTV shows.
I don't know what to do. Plasma in my opinion is the best tv overall except for burn in. Best colors, darkness, smooth moving with such a high refresh rate and best view angle etc. but with games there's burn in.
I can try to limit burn in by gaming less per session, and hopefully the tv would have anti burn in features to also help. However I still would be worried about burn in.
I think I would prefer non Plasma as burn in is a big issue. However I'm concerned that non Plasma won't be very good for viewing angle, colors/hazy looking and fast moving objects etc.
I'm looking for some feedback, suggestions and general dialog please. And truly, thank you to all.

I was in similar quandry. from everything I read, plasma was the way to go from perspective of picture quality. But then I started reading about burnin or even just image retention. I switched to looking for an LED. I don't play games on it (at least not yet), and i don't watch a lot of sports, but I do watch marathon sessions of Tennis whenever the one of the Grand Slams is on, and this is 10-12 hours of tennis for 12 days straight. I didn't want to give that up.

I decided to check out LEDs. One of the LEDs on my list of possibles was the SamsungES6500. May I ask why you are returning it?

I've ended up ordering a Vizio. There have been some good reports for a few of their models. I haven't recieved mine yet, so I can't say what I think about the pic quality. But you could read some of the threads.

Rick
post #5 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucidream View Post

I'd recommend the Sony HX850. Buy it locally with easy return policy in case there is any banding.
+1
post #6 of 46
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys. I'll see if they have the Sony on the floor. If not I'd be getting it unseen unless someone else has it that I could see.

The Samsung UN55ES6500 has terrible viewing angel and its hazy sometimes. Colors aren't as good as they should be and background lights in tv is too bright. Also there seems to be stuff on people's jackets or shirts that looks terrible. It's even there when picture moves.

I have a 2007 42" Hitatchi Plasma that is better in every way except text is smoother on the Samsung.
I also have a 42" AOC LCD from about the same time. It is not as good as the plasma but still is better then the Samsung vita a $799 Costco tv. The Samsung is new and cost twice as much yet the LCD has better color, better viewing angel and doesn't have those artifacts or whatever it is.

I want non plasma for gaming but just nervous. I'll for sure try to check out the Sony which I don't think they have it in store.
post #7 of 46
Thread Starter 
Anyone else please?
post #8 of 46
how about LG 55LM7600? specs comparison with UN55ES6500 looks quite competitive,
http://tv-compare.blogspot.com/2012/09/samsung-un55es6500-vs-lg-55lm7600.html
post #9 of 46
Thread Starter 
Thanks. The LG seems not bad.

I just don't know how to calibrate the samsung un55es6500. I don't have money for any DVD or pro kit either.
Edited by buggs1a - 11/24/12 at 6:13pm
post #10 of 46
Thread Starter 
Anyone else please?
post #11 of 46
Thread Starter 
Hello out there in TV land. ????

No one local has any and I mean any good TVs. No one even sells the Sony hx series.
post #12 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Hello out there in TV land. ????
No one local has any and I mean any good TVs. No one even sells the Sony hx series.

If not, then you might just be best advised to pull the trigger on one of those (850) via an online vendor and have it delivered, as these will probably be your best PQ option in the range you're targeting for an LED lit set. Alternatively, if you are committed to buying it locally/physically, why don't you present what your options are in that range and people can help you reach a decision based on that list?
post #13 of 46
Thread Starter 
Thanks Xb.
I went to best buy and saw the Sony HX750 55" and right next to it the LG 55" 6700 one. I can get either one. $1699 for the LG and $1499 or $1450 for the Sony. Both had a bet buy demo thing running with lots of white and big blueish letter rods talking about 3D.

Sony
No glasses included
Active 3D
Looked ok.
Viewing angel better then my Samsung un55es6500 that I had for 3 weeks and sold 2 days go. Sony didnt look cloudy but wasn't showing a tv show.

Lg
Passive 3d
6 pair glasses included
Looked ok.
View angle better I think then the Samsung.

I don't know which one to get of these two.
Best buy will match amazon prices they told me.
Suggestions?
post #14 of 46
Here's the factors that effect the choice in my mind for you. One question is:

1) How important is the 3D to you in an absolute sense? ,

2) ...and then, how important is the quality of said 3D?

The LG is going to have the lower total cost associated with the 3D aspect for sure given the passive technology and cheaper glasses. With the Sony you can figure ~$30 per set of glasses at the moment (assuming Playstation brand for polarization and lesser expense). On the other hand, the HX750 will give you higher resolution 3D. Again, it just depends on what matters to you with regard 3D.

With NetFlix and such, both have you covered. The Sony has further access to a broader wealth of Internet content, but honestly if you're on the 360 & PS3, you're probably going to be going through those anyway.

The big caveat on the LG, and it may or may not matter, is that the panel is not a 120Hz panel (despite the claim to the contrary). Read this: http://hdguru.com/lg-55lm6700-hdtv-review-when-120-hz-isnt-120-hz-updated/8281/

Now, that may not be a deal killer, and it won't effect the beauty of the image on the screen at any moment in time. I do think it's an attractive set and there's a case to be made for the inexpense of passive 3D. For myself, I would probably go with the HX750, but for either one, your main hope will be to receive a set with minimal or no clouding. Which isn't bad odds, it's just something to watch out for.
post #15 of 46
Thread Starter 
I meant the LG is the LM557600 model. I got the 76 and 67 messed up.
3D gave me headache on the Sony. Looked through its glasses for only a couple minutes and picture sucked. Noise around all objects and bodies of people. Was a best buy demo on espn3d and some other stuff. 3D not important really to me. ID play with it in video games but not often.

The lg was the 7600 model. Didn't try its 3d.

There's also the Panasonic st50 55" and the gt model.

These are what I'm considering. All these TVs.
post #16 of 46
Thread Starter 
Lol. I mean the lg is 55lm7600

So I guess I'm thinking about the

Sony HX750 55".
Panasonic 55" ST50.
LG 55LM7600

Opinions please?

I'm planning to get one today.
post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Lg Passive 3d
6 pair glasses included
Looked ok.
View angle better I think then the Samsung.

I'd get that one. I have last year's 65" passive LG (65LW6500). So I'm assuming much of what I'm going to say will be applicable.

- Nice picture quality. Yes, not as good as a plasma (I have one too), but quite good. Picture quality has come a long way since my first LCD (2008 Philips).
- Reasonably good blacks. Plenty bright for daytime viewing. Good viewing angles. Full range of settings for fine calibration.
- Smart TV if that's important ( I use my HTPC for that). It works, that's about all I can say, having done a little testing.
- 3D is very good at reasonable viewing distance (~ 1.5x screen size). You can download demos and may find you really like it.
- Uneven backlighting and flashlighting is not noticeable (to me) if I stay away from "Vivid" settings and don't crank up the backlighting. Mind you, this site has a lot of very discriminating videophiles who will tell you not to get an edge-lit LED/LCD under any circumstances. All I can say is I have to look very intently to detect said problems on my set. I have to have the room darkened and view a dimly lit scene with solid color background to see it.
- The inbuilt media player is the exception to the rule that such players always suck. I can play MKVs (Blu-Ray re-encodes) directly from external ntfs formatted powered hard drives. Plus a lot of other file types. Nice feature, and I dunno why they don't tout it more.
- Motion interpolation is very good, and adjustable. (Turned off on my Philips).
- I don't play video games, but there's a game mode that supposedly turns off most picture processing. Dunno about input lag.

Good luck whatever you get, and post back with your reactions.
post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

I meant the LG is the LM557600 model. I got the 76 and 67 messed up.
3D gave me headache on the Sony. Looked through its glasses for only a couple minutes and picture sucked. Noise around all objects and bodies of people. Was a best buy demo on espn3d and some other stuff. 3D not important really to me. ID play with it in video games but not often.
The lg was the 7600 model. Didn't try its 3d.
There's also the Panasonic st50 55" and the gt model.
These are what I'm considering. All these TVs.

The LM7600 - if that's the one - is certainly a better set than the 6700 in absolute terms. I don't think you'll go wrong with either, the input lag is the only question. I know that the Sony's game mode is very good as far as input lag goes; you can probably check the LG's owner thread and get the answer for the LM7600 fairly easily as well. If it all washes out the same, I feel you're pulling towards the LG - no reason to hold back if that's the case. Check on that game mode though!

The ST50 many here would say has the better absolute PQ of the three, but honestly it seems plasmas and gaming can be a rough matchup sometimes.
post #19 of 46
Thread Starter 
Fritz, thank you so much. I'll seriously consider the lg 55lm7600.
What about do you think of the Panasonic 55" st50 plasma? Or anyone think. Ya know, all these 3 TVs compared to each other.

Be nice if there was a 50" tv in stick that was good but hmm. Not sure.
post #20 of 46
Thread Starter 
Xb
What do you mean about plasmas and gaming can be a rough matchup? Are you referring to burn in? I'm curious in that regard if my gaming sessions were limited to say 45 minutes at a time if that would be ok.

About tv lag with gaming. I never seen it. On any tv I've played games on. So I dunno. I've got an AOC 42" LCD from 4 or 5 years ago and a 2007 Hitatchi 42" Plasma and another 37" LCD from 3 or 4 years ago. I've not seen gaming lag on any of them. Hmm.
post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Xb
What do you mean about plasmas and gaming can be a rough matchup? Are you referring to burn in? I'm curious in that regard if my gaming sessions were limited to say 45 minutes at a time if that would be ok.
About tv lag with gaming. I never seen it. On any tv I've played games on. So I dunno. I've got an AOC 42" LCD from 4 or 5 years ago and a 2007 Hitatchi 42" Plasma and another 37" LCD from 3 or 4 years ago. I've not seen gaming lag on any of them. Hmm.

The irony is that "cheaper" TVs generally have less input lag, because there is less video processing that goes on on the back end. Of course the type of game plays a big role itself, as some games will not be trigger-finger dependent. On many a modern TV though, on default settings, you will definitely feel it.

With plasmas, yeah certainly burn-in on HUD/static-related elements and such, but ghosting can be an issue as well depending on the game. I wouldn't think that any permanent burn-in would be a concern though vs temporary image retention.

Question: Your older Hitachi plasma - what inputs did you use to connect with?
post #22 of 46
Thread Starter 
Xb
I use HDMI. Through my AVR. Xbox 360 and PS3 HDMI to AVR then AVR HDMI out to tv.

On the Samsung I didn't notice lag. I played MLB 12 the show on ps3. I play the baseball game, battlefield 3 on 360, f1 racing games on ps3 with my Logitech driving force gt, need for speed most wanted in ps3, forza games on 360, call of duty type stuff single player on my 360.
post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Xb
I use HDMI. Through my AVR. Xbox 360 and PS3 HDMI to AVR then AVR HDMI out to tv.
On the Samsung I didn't notice lag. I played MLB 12 the show on ps3. I play the baseball game, battlefield 3 on 360, f1 racing games on ps3 with my Logitech driving force gt, need for speed most wanted in ps3, forza games on 360, call of duty type stuff single player on my 360.

Ok, just curious - didn't know whether it might've been an older 480p set or something, which traditionally didn't have any input lag at all.

Go get a TV already! smile.gif
post #24 of 46
Thread Starter 
Lol. Go get a tv already lol.
Xbdestroya
You mention the Sony has good game mode and it sounded like the lg might have lag issues. That statement makes me nervous. Well I just wonder and it brings in mind more concern or questions about the lg.

Some questions. I know I can google but some stuff I've read don't make sense to me.

1: what is judder?

2: what is ghosting?

3: soap opera effect?

4: lag?

5: can you output video from smartphone to the Sony tv or lg or Panasonic?

6: how might cloudy be on these sets?

7: some say active glasses give headache and passive don't. My head felt weird after watching the Sony 3d demo for 5 minutes or less.

8: what is noise in the picture?

9: what are picture artifacts?

10: I hope no motion blur on any tv.

11: I hope no jaggy or noisy edges of text and icons.

12: I hope no jerky movement like some TVs do. Like watching an f1 race on the Samsung un55es6500 the side rails on the track would be jerky while the cars drove around the corner but the car and track were not jerky. My other TVs don't do this.
post #25 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Lol. Go get a tv already lol.
Xbdestroya
You mention the Sony has good game mode and it sounded like the lg might have lag issues. That statement makes me nervous. Well I just wonder and it brings in mind more concern or questions about the lg.
Some questions. I know I can google but some stuff I've read don't make sense to me.
1: what is judder?
2: what is ghosting?
3: soap opera effect?
4: lag?
5: can you output video from smartphone to the Sony tv or lg or Panasonic?
6: how might cloudy be on these sets?
7: some say active glasses give headache and passive don't. My head felt weird after watching the Sony 3d demo for 5 minutes or less.
8: what is noise in the picture?
9: what are picture artifacts?
10: I hope no motion blur on any tv.
11: I hope no jaggy or noisy edges of text and icons.
12: I hope no jerky movement like some TVs do. Like watching an f1 race on the Samsung un55es6500 the side rails on the track would be jerky while the cars drove around the corner but the car and track were not jerky. My other TVs don't do this.

Well, on the LG I don't know that it does or it doesn't (with respect to its game mode). Just something which I thought you might want to verify in advance since you do game.

With the other questions...

1) Judder.. I'm going to gloss over this, as it's slightly contentious and some people don't even see it. But it would be akin to like a slight jerkiness in the picture. Honestly it shouldn't be a problem on either LCD set; some people see it more on plasmas. Again though, some don't notice it at all.

2) Ghosting would be when a fast moving object on the screen leaves sort-of a trail behind it that exists for longer than its presence on the source would determine. Think of a mouse trail on older monitors, but for larger objects/scenery. More endemic in plasmas due to the phosphor-based technology.

3) Soap opera effect will be maxing out the processing and taking advantage of the 120Hz refresh rates on the panels. It will make everything look more "real." It's honestly a good thing from a pure video clarity perspective, but since it interferes with the display of content replay at its native frame rate, some people hate it. This gets especially contentious concerning 24p movie content, and is at its least contentious around sports and games.

4) Lag is the amount of time necessary for the screen to display the action taken by you via either a PC or game console. At the height of their processing abilities, some TVs will introduce significant lag, which is the game mode stuff I was talking about. On TVs with bad lag, believe me, like in an FPS multiplayer - you will feel it, and hate it. You will literally be a second behind in terms of all actions.

5) Via DLNA considerations, I am sure you would be able to. But I defer on this one since I don't know for sure (as I don't do it myself).

6) Cloudiness will be an issue with edge-lit LED sets for the most part. So, the Sony and the LG potentially. It's case-by-case; the design lends itself to the issues, but the issue seems to be caused by the manufacture of each and every set individually. Generally, it will manifest as areas of excess brightness or light in dark scenes, in the corners or along the edges of the set. The TV may not have any. And then again, it might.

7) I think the PlayStation brand polarized glasses would help in this regard vs the Sony TV targeted ones, but yeah, for headaches passive would be the safer route if you suffer from that. Of course 3D can be ignored altogether.

8) Noise would be like a grain effect where there shouldn't be one. Just... black or white fine-grained splotchiness. I wouldn't worry too much about it on TVs at this level; most noise will be source-driven.

9) Picture artifacts would be when the scene changes suddenly but due to processing failure or display response time some section of the previous frame is left stuck into the new frame for a split-second. When it crops up, it'll usually be in scenes of extreme color change.

10) I don't think motion blur (as far as mushy images) will be a concern on any of these.

11) Yeah... that you will be able to fine-tune and adjust on each set with certain settings. I have to think that each and every one of them on factory settings will *not* give you the best they can perform on text or PC input. Sharpness settings will play a big role.

12) That's a processing issue again, and your other TVs don't suffer from it because they aren't processing the image. Some TVs do fail at scenes like that. But these three should all handle it well.
Edited by xbdestroya - 12/1/12 at 3:29pm
post #26 of 46
Okay, you have a lot of questions there, and I don't grudge you that. You're gonna have to live with your choice a while. tongue.gif

First, here's where I'm coming from: long-time serious video hobbyist who's only incidentally interested in display tech. I began with VHS captures for myself. Soon I had pro level decks, TBCs (time base correctors), and had learned Avisynth for cleaning up /filtering /manipulating digital video. Lossless codecs and lots of hard drive space. It grew into almost a side job, but most folks who want to save their VHS home movies have done so by now. I'm still in the hobby though.

I have to chuckle when guys talk about accurate displays. If they only knew all the trickery involved in video, and how subjective it can be. Especially restoration, though it applies in post production as well. Anyway, there is *NO* perfect display. Lots of hobbyists still use top end CRTs, some pros too. So did I until mine died. What did I replace it with? A top-end Viewsonic LCD monitor. Go to videohelp.com and ask why if you're interested. Mind you, I'm referring to actual editing/cleanup work on the computer, and not to regular viewing.

Plasma vs LED/LCD? They both have their strengths and weaknesses. For the plasma purists who carp about edge-lit backlighting, I say: IR (image retention) and how about it? Even the new ones will get IR if there's a channel logo showing for any length of time. Burn in, not so much nowadays.

Okay, here we go:

1) Judder. usually this refers to the conversion necessary to display 24 fps (frames per second) video on a 60 Hz display. Look up "pulldown judder". Not a problem with any of the sets you're interested in, so don't worry. Then there's the jerkiness you'll see on a slow pan with film material. That's a limitation of the frame rate, and only motion interpolation (creation of intermediate frames) can help that.

You have to understand how digital video is compressed. You have an "I" frame or reference frame with all the frame's information. Like a bitmap. The I frame begins a GOP (group of pictures) in which a P frame references the frame before it and only specifies differences, mainly in motion vectors. B frames can reference frames before and after. All this means the video can be stored in much less space.

So how does motion interpolation work? It uses motion vectors, very much as explained above. Or call it the "average" of two frames, the newly created frame being inserted between the two. That's why higher Hz rating matters, as it affects the possible frame rate, making interpolation possible. I won't even get into interlaced video.

Which leads to:

3) Soap Opera Effect. The result of interpolation or smoothing. Some film purists don't like it, I do. If it's good that is. It's the best you can do with the low frame rates we have now. When I see a slow pan I want it to be smooth. Decide for yourself.

(Notice I skipped #2. I don't think it's much of an issue, but maybe someone else will tackle that one. Though for some material, motion interpolation can introduce occasional ghosting).

4) Lag. Again, I don't game, but if you turn off all unnecessary processing with game mode, it shouldn't be a problem. Look up the response times or search the relevant owner's threads as suggested.

5) Smartphone video. I just dunno, don't have one, but I'd bet the LG can display it.

6) Cloudiness. Not sure if you mean uneven backlighting/flashlighting or something else. Something else would qualify as a defect. Anyway, I addressed the former as pertains to the LG.

7) Active vs passive. I've read some reviews that said the Sony active glasses were hands-down the worst active glasses. Others are available that are supposedly better. Or maybe you're one of the not insignificant minority who just gets headaches with active 3D. No guarantee that you won't with passive as well, but I'd bet not.

8) Noise. Sometimes it's inherent in the source material, sometimes it's the image processing in the set. I'll leave it to others to elaborate as it pertains to displays.

Which leads to:

9) Artifacts. Sometimes it's compression artifacts inherent in the video, usually from over-compression. Like with cable HD. MPEG2 will exhibit macroblocking, AVC will exhibit posterization and banding. Then there are display artifacts, often from over-sharpening or overly-aggressive noise reduction. In the latter cases, you have some measure of control in the TV's settings. Others can elaborate further.

10) Motion blur. I would hope not also.tongue.gif Or at least nothing that isn't inherent in the video.

11) Jaggy text shouldn't be a problem unless you're overly sensitive or there's a defect.

12) Jerkiness again? Already covered. But again, much will depend on your subjective perception.

I thought you were gonna get your TV today?tongue.gif

[EDIT] Ha, XB beat me to it! I can't type fast enough, or maybe I should cut out the long-winded answers.wink.gif
Edited by fritzi93 - 12/1/12 at 3:46pm
post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzi93 View Post

[EDIT] Ha, XB beat me to it! I can't type fast enough, or maybe I should cut out the long-winded answers.wink.gif

My problem is I did the requisite shopping earlier this morning, so now I'm just in front of the computer. smile.gif
post #28 of 46
Thread Starter 
Hi guys. Lol!
Thank you both so very much. Truly thank you sooooo much. Imagine me jumping up and down saying thank you thank you over and over lol. Not literally though. Whew.

I took all of your advice. I thought on stuff too. Did some research on the specific models.

I went to Best Buy today. I looked at the TVs again. The Sony 3D didn't pop out off the screen. It had noise or something around the edges of stuff onscreen. My head felt weird after a couple minutes. This was yesterday.

Today I checked the 3D on the LG 55LM7600. My head didn't feel weird. The 3D popped off the screen like it was in front of it. The viewing angle on the 3D was awesome. It looked the same off to the side as if you're in the center. The only difference was it was a tiny bit darker but barely. I was surprised. I noticed stuff around the edges of objects. I think this is ghosting or similar maybe. Like you have the object then an outline of it around it. Didn't bother me since I was only seeing a short demo. However of course I'd prefer it not there.

I think I preferred the LG 3D popping off the screen. I was told this is passive 3D and active 3D is in the tv more. I liked the 3D on the Sony too. How stuff would appear like right on the front of the screen touching the glass. That was cool.

I got home and the tv came with the magic remote. Best buy person told me it also has a standard remote. It didn't.

So far all I did was put it on the stand. Easy! Then turned on tv and connected remote. Then turned on directv and been watching 2 episodes of Hogans Hereos. I am impressed with the picture out the box. Much nicer to me then the Samsung UN55ES6500. Not hazy/cloudy like the Samsung was. Better, stronger colors and blacks are good I think. Viewing angle good. Much better then the Samsung.

I don't notice noise, ghosting, motion blur, cloudy, etc. it's not HD of course but seems good for what it is. The directv is set for HDMI and 1080i.

I haven't touched tv settings yet except the first run setup. Wifi works. The Samsung did not.

I'm so grateful to you guys. I'm so glad this tv so far is much better to me then the Samsung I just sold 3 or 4 days ago.

I've heard I should burn in the tv for about 100 hrs before doing any setting changes or calibration. What does this mean?

Thank you all so much. Especially you fritz and xbdestroya. But everyone gets major major kudos from me.

Joe
post #29 of 46
You mentioned the magic remote, which I guess means you got the LG? I'd get the regular remote as well. The magic wand is especially useful for using the inbuilt media player.

First thing I'd do is put it in Standard mode and check the backlighting. (Backlighting will be at 80, which I should think is the highest you should ever go, though lower will be better). Play something with dimly lit scenes and solid background. Change inputs and you'll get a gray screen momentarily, which will show up any unevenness. Then of course a good bit of regular viewing to determine if you can see it then. This would apply to any edge-lit set. See if it's acceptable to you.

We can give you some tips once we're sure which set you got.



.
post #30 of 46
Fyi best buy and hhgregg now have a 60in lg 240hz TV in the 60lm7200. I think they are going for $1699
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