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Ack's DIY Subwoofer Build Idea Thread - Newbie Alert!

post #1 of 203
11/20/12 at 1:58pm
Thread Starter 
A little about the room... It is a large basement media room with a 125" screen, projector, etc. Main room is 4992 cubic sq ft and there is another room that is 1300 cubic square feet that is open to it. So slightly over 5100 cubic sq ft. The room is actually well insulated (all walls, and ceiling) and there is a lot of heavy drapes, carpet (this is a basement) and sofas/chairs.

I currently have an Hsu VTF-15H and am quite happy with that subwoofer, but I completed the basement build almost a year ago and am looking for a new project. I was seriously contemplating a second VTF-15H (my plan all along was to have at least two), but now I am really thinking DIY. As for size restraints and WAF factor, well I can go pretty big, but I don't think anything over 30" tall will fly. I might be able to go 35" tall. Depth-wise, no more than 30" deep, and can probably go another 30" wide if needed. I can probably go bigger in any direction accept depth if needed.

Budget... Well, I would like to stay under $1000. Ideally around $700, but am open to spending more and am open to duals subs now, and the possibility of adding a 3rd and maybe 4th. I was hoping to keep the Hsu, but am open to selling it after I build one or two subs and see how I like them. That sale could fund 1-2 more subs.

I have been reading lots of build threads and played around with some calculators, but am really getting myself confused. Here are some ideas I am floating around:

- Copying Gorilla's dual opposed Dayton 18" sub thread (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435795/first-diy-project-for-a-guy-looking-to-upgrade-multiple-sealed-18s). I would most likely start with one of these then add a second. His box is sealed and is roughly 7cubic ft. He is using this driver which seems like a winner:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-472

My concerns with this build are that the dual opposed subwoofer baffles me in terms of wiring. So I would need some newbie guidance there...
I also am not sure if my budget is better building dual opposed, or two 24x24x24 cubes collocated using the same driver.

I also am open to using dual 15" drivers, these don't have to be 18", but I figured since I can go with a fairly large box and also have such a large room, 18" seems like a better move now with the thought of adding identical subs later?

I also am confused on amps. I don't want to spend too much money on an amp, but I want something that can power duals now. Was looking at the Dayton SPA1000, Behringer iNuke 3000DSP, and Behringer EP4000.

So what would you recommend experts? Dual opposed 15"? Dual opposed 18"? Single 18's?

Help!

smile.gif

I have several weeks of time off upcoming, so I would like to order parts soon. I do have all the tools (router, table saw, jigsaw, etc)...
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post #2 of 203
11/20/12 at 4:15pm
how about building dual front firing ported subs around the dvc385 that is on sale for $99 ea shipped and inuke3000dsp amps.

8 drivers = $800
2 amps = $800
diy cabs = 10 cubic feet ea tuned to 18hz

that gives 500 watts per driver and dsp control. so how does it do?

with no room gain, it is "off the charts" (greater than 130db) from 25hz up and more than you will need down to about 15-16hz or so.



of course, if you consider yourself to only be half crazy, you could get this:

4 drivers = $400
1 amp = $400
diy cabs = 5 cubic feet each tuned to 18hz

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post #3 of 203
11/20/12 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Budget... Well, I would like to stay under $1000. Ideally around $700, but am open to spending more and am open to duals subs now, and the possibility of adding a 3rd and maybe 4th. I was hoping to keep the Hsu, but am open to selling it after I build one or two subs and see how I like them. That sale could fund 1-2 more subs.

Is that $700 for everything (drivers, amp, wood, glue, finish material, etc.) or just for the electronics (drivers and amp)? Most people quote prices for just the electronics, but you implied that the finish was important (WAF seemed a high priority) which will add to your costs.
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post #4 of 203
11/20/12 at 9:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerParty View Post

Is that $700 for everything (drivers, amp, wood, glue, finish material, etc.) or just for the electronics (drivers and amp)? Most people quote prices for just the electronics, but you implied that the finish was important (WAF seemed a high priority) which will add to your costs.

Just electronics...
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post #5 of 203
11/20/12 at 9:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

how about building dual front firing ported subs around the dvc385 that is on sale for $99 ea shipped and inuke3000dsp amps.
8 drivers = $800
2 amps = $800
diy cabs = 10 cubic feet ea tuned to 18hz
that gives 500 watts per driver and dsp control. so how does it do?
with no room gain, it is "off the charts" (greater than 130db) from 25hz up and more than you will need down to about 15-16hz or so.

of course, if you consider yourself to only be half crazy, you could get this:
4 drivers = $400
1 amp = $400
diy cabs = 5 cubic feet each tuned to 18hz

Hmm... Interesting.. I could go with 6 drivers and 1 amp for now. I could build two boxes and then add the third box when I can buy another amp...

Very interesting. What would you recommend for a port for both the 10 cubic ft and 5 cubic ft subs?

What about something in the 7 cubic ft range that is ported.

Thanks! Those drivers look like a steal....
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post #6 of 203
11/21/12 at 1:54am
well, 6 drivers won't wire up to the amp properly. the impedance will be off.

as for ports, that depends on if you want round ports or slot ports and there are lots of different ways to do it, but two 4" x 40" long will tune a 5 cubic footer to 18 hz.
Edited by LTD02 - 11/21/12 at 10:00am
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post #7 of 203
11/21/12 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Hmm... Interesting.. I could go with 6 drivers and 1 amp for now. I could build two boxes and then add the third box when I can buy another amp...
Very interesting. What would you recommend for a port for both the 10 cubic ft and 5 cubic ft subs?
What about something in the 7 cubic ft range that is ported.
Thanks! Those drivers look like a steal....

How low do you want to get? Is 15hz ok? 10hz? The lower you try to go the more output you give up. I think LTD rec'ed 5cu ft because of your box size criteria and trying to get 2 15's per box, but if you want to get output down to 10 hz with a ported box these look good in 7cu ft at about 13 hz. You will give up a little bix of max spl though.

2" ports though? That's too small. You need a minimum area of 28 sq in per driver for an 18hz tune. I would use 1 6" round or build a slot port.

A 22w x 28h x 30d box (22 so it will fit through doors, double baffle on the w/h dimension) with a 6" dia 60" l port will give you a 7 cu ft box tuned to 13hz for 1 driver. You will need a couple of bends to get that much port in there.

22w x 26h x 30d with a 29.25" port length gives you a 7cu ft 18hz box.

I have 1 of the DVC 15's in 3.5cu ft sealed and I'm pleased with it, but I could use a second for some headroom and I've got a much smaller room. 4 of them ported w/ an iNuke 3000 dsp would get you some good bass for the money. You could use the hsu in a rear corner of the room as a filler sub and co-locate the dvc's in the front. Or just spread the 4 boxes around the room and sell the hsu. cool.gif
Edited by nograveconcern - 11/21/12 at 6:05am
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post #8 of 203
11/21/12 at 6:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

well, 6 drivers won't wire up to the amp properly. the impedance will be off.
as for ports, that depends on if you want round ports or slot ports and there are lots of different ways to do it, but two 2" x 40" long will tune a 5 cubic footer to 18 hz.

Sorry, was not clear. Buy 6 drivers now so I can build 3 dual 15" boxes. Two boxes now with an iNuke3K and then buy another amp later.
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post #9 of 203
11/21/12 at 6:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

How low do you want to get? Is 15hz ok? 10hz? The lower you try to go the more output you give up. I think LTD rec'ed 5cu ft because of your box size criteria and trying to get 2 15's per box, but if you want to get output down to 10 hz with a ported box these look good in 7cu ft at about 13 hz. You will give up a little bix of max spl though.
2" ports though? That's too small. You need a minimum area of 28 sq in per driver for an 18hz tune. I would use 1 6" round or build a slot port.
A 22w x 28h x 30d box (22 so it will fit through doors, double baffle on the w/h dimension) with a 6" dia 60" l port will give you a 7 cu ft box tuned to 13hz for 1 driver. You will need a couple of bends to get that much port in there.
22w x 26h x 30d with a 29.25" port length gives you a 7cu ft 18hz box.
I have 1 of the DVC 15's in 3.5cu ft sealed and I'm pleased with it, but I could use a second for some headroom and I've got a much smaller room. 4 of them ported w/ an iNuke 3000 dsp would get you some good bass for the money. You could use the hsu in a rear corner of the room as a filler sub and co-locate the dvc's in the front. Or just spread the 4 boxes around the room and sell the hsu. cool.gif

I am okay with an 18hz tune. With room gain, I suspect I can get close to 15hz (my VTF-15 is useable down to 16hz in my room).

Quote:
22w x 26h x 30d with a 29.25" port length gives you a 7cu ft 18hz box

This sounds like a winner... How wide should the port be for that length? You also read my mind on the Hsu. Build two of these for the front, and then put the Hsu in the rear.

I am finding some good deals on the iNuke and the drivers so I may pull the trigger today.
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post #10 of 203
11/21/12 at 6:31am
Thread Starter 
Thanks again to everyone who is assisting.
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post #11 of 203
11/21/12 at 7:48am
Same 6 inch internal dia.

Those dimensions and tune are for 1 sub per box. If you are planning to build 2 subs in each box then you need a much larger box. At least 10cu ft net for each dual 15 box. You would also have to double up the port area so 2x 6" port tubes.

you should be able to do 15hz before the woofer starts to unload with an 18hz tune, but I would set your hpf on the dsp at 20hz. That is as low as it goes anyway and should put the -3db point of the signal somewhere around 15-16hz.
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post #12 of 203
11/21/12 at 7:53am
10cu ft dual 15 @ 18hz:

22w x 32.5h x 36d

two 42.675" long 6" dia port tubes

Double baffle on w/h side

All 3/4" stock with and extra .3 cu ft of that for bracing
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post #13 of 203
11/21/12 at 8:14am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

10cu ft dual 15 @ 18hz:
22w x 32.5h x 36d
two 42.675" long 6" dia port tubes
Double baffle on w/h side
All 3/4" stock with and extra .3 cu ft of that for bracing

Two boxes this size in the front of the room could be a deal killer with the wife. I will measure today and get an idea how large this is. I can probably get away with two 7 cu ft boxes though... Hmm.. Two drivers then total (2 7 cubic ft boxes) and the iNuke is only $545 right now.. MDF and other supplies would probably put two of these with the amp under $700. Very nice.

I am still debating the 10 cubic ft box though. I suspect it will give me another 4-6db having the larger ported box with dual drivers? I also suspect it might be harder to integrate with the VTF-15H since it might easily overpower it?
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post #14 of 203
11/21/12 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Two boxes this size in the front of the room could be a deal killer with the wife. I will measure today and get an idea how large this is. I can probably get away with two 7 cu ft boxes though... Hmm.. Two drivers then total (2 7 cubic ft boxes) and the iNuke is only $545 right now.. MDF and other supplies would probably put two of these with the amp under $700. Very nice.
I am still debating the 10 cubic ft box though. I suspect it will give me another 4-6db having the larger ported box with dual drivers? I also suspect it might be harder to integrate with the VTF-15H since it might easily overpower it?

It will overpower the hsu, but the hsu is probably only going to get used to fill in the midbass region.

7 cu ft with 2 15's is a tight fit. You could do a slot port though.

22w x 36h x 26.5d

Slot port 53.5" long x 3" high on the 22w side of the box. That puts the last bend of the port right in a corner though.

double baffle on the w/h side with both drivers and the port on that side. That's an 7 cu ft 18hz box.

It's going to end up looking like a bass cab. biggrin.gif

Or...
22w x 36 h x 28 d

Slot port 44.75" long x 3" high on the 22w side of the box. Port will run along the bottom of the box and 31.5" up the back side of the box. Only one 90 degree turn.

double baffle on the w/h side with both drivers and the port on that side. That's an 8 cu ft 18hz box.
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post #15 of 203
11/21/12 at 9:14am
ack_bk
Question #1 is do you have any way to measure your frequency response currently? If you do not I would make this priority 1 before getting into DIY. It is absolutely a requirement if you want to get the most out of what you have built. Commercial subs are developed by the manufacturer and all of the tweaking and optimization is done by them before you ever get the product. DIY requires some EQ and DSP control to get them to their best and you need measurements of the response to confirm what you have built and are doing is correct. If you do not have a measurement setup one can be put together for less than $200 or an omnimic system is about $300 I believe.


4 Dayton 15 DVC drivers = $400
1 Behringer Inuke6000 = $400
diy cabs = $200
Measurement gear? $300??

Done right with a little time and plenty of elbow grease this could perform similar to 4 VTF-15H's for $1000-1300
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post #16 of 203
11/21/12 at 10:01am
"2" ports though? That's too small."

YES!!!

sorry about that. it was a typo. i meant two FOUR inch diameter ports per driver.
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post #17 of 203
11/21/12 at 10:10am
the reason that i mentioned the dual 4" ports is that a bend will most likely be required and i'm not sure how to bend a 6" port.

if no bend is required, either dual 4" ports or a single 6" port, per driver, works fine.

yes, i semi-arbitrarily chose 5 cubic feet per driver net, 6 or even 7 would be a little better, but 5 works fine.
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post #18 of 203
11/21/12 at 10:12am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

ack_bk
Question #1 is do you have any way to measure your frequency response currently? If you do not I would make this priority 1 before getting into DIY. It is absolutely a requirement if you want to get the most out of what you have built. Commercial subs are developed by the manufacturer and all of the tweaking and optimization is done by them before you ever get the product. DIY requires some EQ and DSP control to get them to their best and you need measurements of the response to confirm what you have built and are doing is correct. If you do not have a measurement setup one can be put together for less than $200 or an omnimic system is about $300 I believe.
4 Dayton 15 DVC drivers = $400
1 Behringer Inuke6000 = $400
diy cabs = $200
Measurement gear? $300??
Done right with a little time and plenty of elbow grease this could perform similar to 4 VTF-15H's for $1000-1300

Josh, thanks for your feedback. To answer your question I currently have an SPL meter and have done measurements using this and an Excel file with test tones. So old school. With one subwoofer it was pretty easy to do the sub-crawl and then measure from a couple positions to ensure I have good response from the seating position. I also have a Denon receiver that has Audyssey MultiEQ and utilize that for EQ.

I am willing to put in the time and effort and also buy measurement gear, but that will most likely need to come after I buy hardware. I was fully planning on buying EQ/DSP and was looking at the iNuke 3000DSP amp, but would be open to the iNuke6000. I am handy with woodworking and have all the tools there. I was leaning towards the iNuke due to the DSP/EQ functionality and the budget.

I am curious if you are thinking dual 15's in a larger enclosure vs single 15's in a smaller enclosure.
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post #19 of 203
11/21/12 at 10:19am
the only thing about the 6000 is the impedance again. it is only spec'd for 4 ohms per channel.

the driver is dual 8 ohms coils, so that give 4 or 16 per driver, which allows for 2, 8, or 32 ohms for two.

the 3000 is spec'd for 2 ohms per channel, so a pair of drivers match nicely to the specs.

the only reason to put 2 drivers in one enclosure is if you think that it looks cool.

more sources is always better.

while these are 18's, notnyt's theater subs just look cool. :-) of course, notnyt has plenty of sources.



edit: i suppose josh was thinking series parallel 4 drivers per channel, which would net 4 ohms and provide about 500 watts per driver. that would be more cost effective if going for the 8 drivers plan.
Edited by LTD02 - 11/21/12 at 10:54am
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post #20 of 203
11/21/12 at 11:48am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

the only thing about the 6000 is the impedance again. it is only spec'd for 4 ohms per channel.
the driver is dual 8 ohms coils, so that give 4 or 16 per driver, which allows for 2, 8, or 32 ohms for two.
the 3000 is spec'd for 2 ohms per channel, so a pair of drivers match nicely to the specs.
the only reason to put 2 drivers in one enclosure is if you think that it looks cool.
more sources is always better.
while these are 18's, notnyt's theater subs just look cool. :-) of course, notnyt has plenty of sources.

edit: i suppose josh was thinking series parallel 4 drivers per channel, which would net 4 ohms and provide about 500 watts per driver. that would be more cost effective if going for the 8 drivers plan.

Okay, please bear with me, this is part of my learning curve smile.gif

It sounds to me like the iNuke 3KDSP will work with these 15" drivers. Most likely I will only be running a pair of drivers off them in two enclosures.

As for this:
Quote:
the only reason to put 2 drivers in one enclosure is if you think that it looks cool.

I just assumed that two drivers in a single, larger enclosure would yield more output and extension. If this is not really the case, then no, I would actually prefer a smaller enclosure if I can get similar performance, or as you state, even better performance from two smaller enclosures each with a single driver (more sources being better).

Going back to this:
Quote:
22w x 26h x 30d with a 29.25" long 6" diameter port length gives you a 7cu ft 18hz box

I am confident I can make this pass the WAF test and it seems like it would give me solid extension and output from a single driver. You mention a 5cu ft box tuned to 18hz, and that might even be better for WAF. I could build two of these now, and then build two more later and sell the VTF-15H if I like what I hear and once I get EQ and DSP where I want it.

Also, I am curious why folks are recommending ported vs sealed? Is this due to the sheer size of my room, or is it because selaed subs require more expensive amps to power them?

Here is a picture of the front of my room if it will help. Speakers are in-wall Deftech UIW RLS II series (matching vertical fronts and center) behind an AT screen. I think I have some flexibility under the screen for two subs. Max height on those would need to be under 26". I have lots of room to the right of the screen and lots of room behind. Distance from seating position to the screen is 12.5' and around 10.5' to the Hsu from the main seating position on my couch.

2011_0509AB.jpg
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post #21 of 203
11/21/12 at 11:51am
John,

The 6000 is only marginally more expensive and yes I was figuring he would run each pair of drivers at 8 ohms. The power ratings may be similar for the 2 ohm 3000 vs 8 ohm 6000 but I bet that the 6000 is working much less hard and is capable of higher peak voltage with an 8 ohm stereo load than the 3000 run into 2 ohms per channel. Less heat, better reliability, etc. Plus if he ever did want to get crazy and add even more drivers or switch things up he could use the 6000 and 4 ohms and get more power. i think it is worth it for the slight up charge.
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post #22 of 203
11/21/12 at 11:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

John,
The 6000 is only marginally more expensive and yes I was figuring he would run each pair of drivers at 8 ohms. The power ratings may be similar for the 2 ohm 3000 vs 8 ohm 6000 but I bet that the 6000 is working much less hard and is capable of higher peak voltage with an 8 ohm stereo load than the 3000 run into 2 ohms per channel. Less heat, better reliability, etc. Plus if he ever did want to get crazy and add even more drivers or switch things up he could use the 6000 and 4 ohms and get more power. i think it is worth it for the slight up charge.

Josh, the iNuke 3KDSP is $345. The iNuke 6K is $399 but does not have DSP. The iNuke6K with DSP is $499, so $150 more than the 3KDSP

I am guessing I want DSP/EQ built into the amp? If I go with the 6K without DSP, would I just want to add something like a miniDSP?
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post #23 of 203
11/21/12 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Josh, the iNuke 3KDSP is $345. The iNuke 6K is $399 but does not have DSP. The iNuke6K with DSP is $499, so $150 more than the 3KDSP
I am guessing I want DSP/EQ built into the amp? If I go with the 6K without DSP, would I just want to add something like a miniDSP?

Crap...Right you are. I forgot the offered non DSP versions. rolleyes.gif There are a few lightly used ones on the Bay for $425-450. Yes I would get the DSP built into the amp. it ends up cheaper and easier for you with less wiring and boxes to deal with.
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post #24 of 203
11/21/12 at 12:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Crap...Right you are. I forgot the offered non DSP versions. rolleyes.gif There are a few lightly used ones on the Bay for $425-450. Yes I would get the DSP built into the amp. it ends up cheaper and easier for you with less wiring and boxes to deal with.

Haha, I made the same mistake when I first saw the NU6000 for $399... I added it to my cart and then went back to doublecheck.

Well I am very close to pulling the trigger here on 4 15" drivers. Amp and enclosures still to be determined..... I think with my room size ported would work best?
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post #25 of 203
11/21/12 at 1:02pm
Why lookie lookie what we have here, I like what I see, more subs!!!!!

How you doing Ack? What have I been missing?
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post #26 of 203
11/21/12 at 2:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

Why lookie lookie what we have here, I like what I see, more subs!!!!!
How you doing Ack? What have I been missing?

Chad, great to hear from you... You know, now that the basement build has been done for a year I am antsy smile.gif I thought I would try my hand at building a sub (or two, or three, or four)...

Still learning a lot here but I feel that I am on the right path. Hope all is well with you as we enjoy this tropical weather here in Minnesota smile.gif
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post #27 of 203
11/26/12 at 5:53am
Ported is being recommended because you have 5100 cu ft to fill. The bigger the room the more displacement you need. A ported alignment adds sensitivity and excursion control at and above the tuning frequency which results in about 6db more max SPL. So, you would need double the subs w/ double the power to get the same output in a sealed configuration compared to what we have recommended in ported subs.

The advantage of sealed is being able to produce output below the tuning frequency of a given ported alignment. The cost is more long throw subs and more power to produce the same SPL.

Speaking of power, if you want to run 4 dvc 15's in ported boxes get the iNuke 3kdsp. It has what you need for a killer setup so stop worrying about that one. You will have 500w RMS / driver and that's enough to work them hard. Sure, they can take a little more than that, but the iNuke 6k won't deliver appreciably more power to that load.

If you were to go with the 6k to drive the 4 15's you will simply be running the amp at a lower load w/ 8 ohm per channel. The 6k is just two bridged 3k's in one box.
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post #28 of 203
11/26/12 at 6:14am
Not trying to go too far off topic, but, I am just curious if it is possible to use one sub for the mid bass and another sub for the low frequencys? It seems like there is always a trade off in that if you get super low extension, you give up output, and if you have gobs of output, then you give up extension. So with that being said, it only makes sence to use two different subs, one for the super low extension, and another for the mid bass output. I have always heard that a setup like that is pretty hard to get intergrated and end up with decent sound quality. Is this true? Will the OP have any problems blending the VTF-15 with the Daytons?
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post #29 of 203
11/26/12 at 9:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

Ported is being recommended because you have 5100 cu ft to fill. The bigger the room the more displacement you need. A ported alignment adds sensitivity and excursion control at and above the tuning frequency which results in about 6db more max SPL. So, you would need double the subs w/ double the power to get the same output in a sealed configuration compared to what we have recommended in ported subs.
The advantage of sealed is being able to produce output below the tuning frequency of a given ported alignment. The cost is more long throw subs and more power to produce the same SPL.
Speaking of power, if you want to run 4 dvc 15's in ported boxes get the iNuke 3kdsp. It has what you need for a killer setup so stop worrying about that one. You will have 500w RMS / driver and that's enough to work them hard. Sure, they can take a little more than that, but the iNuke 6k won't deliver appreciably more power to that load.
If you were to go with the 6k to drive the 4 15's you will simply be running the amp at a lower load w/ 8 ohm per channel. The 6k is just two bridged 3k's in one box.

Thank you very much for the information. The recommendation for ported subs makes complete sense, and I am heading in that direction. I am pretty much sold on the iNuke 3K, now I am doing some more research on drivers. The $99 15" 385-88 Dayton's seem like a great deal, but if I spend more on a pair of drivers for two ported boxes powered by the iNuke 3K, will it be worth it? Example the Dayton 15" HO driver is $50 more per driver right now. The Titanic 15" drivers are $100 more.

I will be pulling the trigger soon but I want to do this right the first time smile.gif

I have been doing a lot of reading lately and I think two 6-8 cubic ft ported boxes is the way to go.
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post #30 of 203
11/26/12 at 9:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Not trying to go too far off topic, but, I am just curious if it is possible to use one sub for the mid bass and another sub for the low frequencys? It seems like there is always a trade off in that if you get super low extension, you give up output, and if you have gobs of output, then you give up extension. So with that being said, it only makes sence to use two different subs, one for the super low extension, and another for the mid bass output. I have always heard that a setup like that is pretty hard to get intergrated and end up with decent sound quality. Is this true? Will the OP have any problems blending the VTF-15 with the Daytons?

I am not committed to the VTF-15H long-term. If I build two subs and absolutely love the results I can see myself selling it and building 1-2 more subs.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Ack's DIY Subwoofer Build Idea Thread - Newbie Alert!