TVGOS broadcasting ENDS!!! - beginning November 1, 2012 and be completed by April 2013

In the absence of a TVGOS feed, or for channels not included in the TVGOS data, the DTVPal DVR uses PSIP for its guide information.

Surely that's explained in the sticky posts at the beginning of that thread.

On quick question, will the DTVPal in the absence of TVGuide data use PSIP data AND convert the PSIP guide data into TVGuide data which a sony/lg could use?

No. And even if it could, PSIP data on goes out about 6 hours into the future, many stations don't bother with it at all, and often the PSIP data provided is incorrect or so generic that it is useless.

Those are the reasons I'm disappointed over the end of TVGOS.  If OTA stations provided accurate and adequate PSIP info it wouldn't be nearly the loss that it is.

I use my tv with a direct connect antenna connection to test out the psip data. All my channels go out 12 hours, and the data seems fairly accurate.

This is very sad indeed.

First Replay TV now my Sony DHG-500 are useful no more.

I am banging my head against a wall looking for a replacement. Devices like the TIVX, or ChannelMaster or the PHD VRX or DPH100R all look like garbage. I am not very technical. I just want a box to plug in a coax and/or ethernet, see a guide to record, and pause live TV. Is that too much to ask?!?!??

So even with just basic cable, it looks like an older TiVO or Avertv Hybrid Volar Max TV Tuner is in my future.
Edited by imcheesehead1 - 11/23/12 at 3:20pm

I went the cm 7400 route. But it it turns out it will not work well I will give the homerun a shot. I didn't want tivo because I don't want to rely on the internet.

Yes. Guides don't appear of their own accord. The information has to come from somewhere.

I don't really see the termination of TVGOS as a huge loss, but guides don't serve much purpose for my viewing habits. I decide which shows I want to watch at the beginning of each season, I set timers for each of them, and then I delete specific timers if I decide not to continue watching a particular show. I have no need for a guide, because I rarely turn on the TV just to see what's on. As such, guideless DVRs serve my needs perfectly.

All depends on your personal definition of cost effective. Anything with a guide is going to cost you more than you probably want to pay, one way or another. There is no free lunch for guide-based DVR's. If you want to go cheap with minimal functionality you can get a Magnavox DVD recorder for mid-$200's -- no guide, manual scheduling, SD/2.0, single tuner. But it is a digital OTA tuner and it is "cost effective".

HDHR is great, I have one on my network. But if you want to use it as a DVR you need a PC to run DVR software. Whether you use WMC or any of the other good PC-DVR alternatives for OTA recording, if you want to use the PC for playback it has to have enough power to render HDTV -- you will get up to $400-500 fast for the complete system.

TiVo is the easiest solution -- virtually no fuss to set it up and it "just works" day in and day out. I call that "cost effective". Everybody wants that functionality but few want to pay the price. Problem is everything cheaper has progressively less and less functionality.

Without the Internet you have no hope of a guide -- PSIP is not a guide.

I agree with your second point but I've never used the internet for my guide and my Tivo works just fine.....My Tivo is hooked to a phone line and just dials out once/day for a few minutes. True the new Premieres don't come setup for a phone line but AFAIK all you have to do is purchase a relatively cheap phone line adapter from Tivo.

12 hours is good enough for me.

Yup, you are right. Forgot TiVo still has the phone-home option.

Rovi's response, boldface and smilie mine.  I don't think they've claimed TVGOS DVRs stopped being made in 2006 before.  My CM7000Pal DVR is a year old, and I'm pretty sure it was made in 2011.

 

 

 

 

It doesn't like my quoted material, but you get the idea, hopefully.

Edited by TalkingRat - 11/26/12 at 8:05pm

But they're right, in that their software (the TVGoS software) isn't on any DVRs made since 2006 (and the Sony DHG-HDD models were sold last in, what, 2005?). Even if your CM7000 Pal DVR was made later, it doesn't contain any of Rovi/Macrovision/Gemstar's software, because Echostar/Dish wrote their own software, based on intellectual property that was shared with them pursuant to a court settlement between Gemstar/Macrovision and Echostar/Dish several years back. Whoever actually wrote the Pal DVR's software wrote their own code to handle the TVGoS data (which is why, as I've been given to understand, the Pal DVR does not show any TVGoS ads, unlike the Sony).

I'd expect Dish to have an airtight deal, though.  I presume Dish is still making a profit off them, since Channel Master is still selling them, and still advertising that it has TVGuide. 

Time to accept reality and move on.

Fine if you are ready to move on, but I'll wait at least long enough for the manufacturer to respond.  If my DVR were 4 years old, I might feel differently.  But mine's young, 3 years of warranty left, and as of yesterday, CM was still selling them, and advertising the TVGuide as a selling feature.  It can't hurt to wait long enough to see if downloads are possible via the ethernet connection, or to see if there are  options for those still under warranty.  

No harm in waiting, I would never tell you not to wait, just don't expect anything. ROVI is very, very unlikely to change their mind. Their decision to discontinue the product is based on their financial data which tells them, "we can only lose money on this" -- the opinions or desires of users who want to continue to receive the service for free, count for naught. Dish has eliminated the PalDVR from their corporate memory and CM was just a distributer. Once the F208 firmware was issued they washed their collective hands of the product and are just selling residual stock to people who still want it. Don't expect Dish to offer any firmware support for a "failed" product they have disavowed. The DVR was advertised to support TVGOS but the existence of TVGOS was never guaranteed. That would be like expecting Roku to guarantee that all the services it supports will continue to operate. The units still work with PSIP; many will argue that PSIP counts as a TV guide. Neither Dish nor CM ever offered a 3 yr warranty on these boxes -- more like 3 months. Any 3rd party extended warranty you may have purchased can't be considered as an obligation of the manufacturer.

At least you still have a functional box that can be programmed manually and sets its time -- much better off than the Sony DHG people who now have bricks in the absence of TVGOS. I will be the first to concur that it is a shame these boxes lack the ability to receive guide data from an Internet subscription service like Schedules Direct for a modest fee -- the expectation of free quality guide data beyond PSIP is unrealistic. However, the unit did not have that capability when you bought it and it was never promised, so you have no reasonable expectation that it should be provided for that model. The issue was addressed with the succeeding model, CM-7400, which eliminated support for TVGOS in favor of offering the ability to purchase guide information.

The CM standard warranty for the Pal was 1 year, the one improvement CM made to the product.  :)  Doesn't surprise me that Dish didn't sell extended warranties.  But all the authorized CM7000 Pal dealers sold extended warranties at the time of sale. CM direct sales offered up to 3 years, and Walmart, 4 years total.  But it's not like anyone would want to swap for a CM7400, haha. 

 

You are right, there is no reason for Dish/CM/Rovi to fix 'my' problem, even for a paid online subscription.  Too many headaches on the service side of things.  Sony might do it for customer service, but Dish/CM have already burned their bridges, and Rovi never supported even their paid guide customers.  Maybe a third party guide provider could use the Pal's ethernet connection, but if it takes cooperation from Dish/CM/Rovi, that won't happen.  The profit for them is in selling a new recorder and claiming new royalties.

 

So I am making an attitude change, lol.  I am lucky to have more than one time option.  Station times here are accurate and when the clock breaks, engineers are responsive.  A couple stations provide 3 days of PSIP, which may improve the chances that others will provide more if enough people ask for it.

Got the official response from Channel Master.  As expected, they say it's out of their control, and  "the CM7000PAL will not support Web delivered TVGOS now or in the future."  

It is. Subscription services are more lucrative for companies than one-time hardware or software sales. Nobody said that the end user would be the one to benefit from technology moving forward; it's the corporations that do, especially in this current technological environment where Internet-based services are disrupting the old business models for content delivery.

It isn't just DVRs which carried the TVGOS logo and promise of service.. there are HDTVs too.

I don't know about this legally, but if I bought some hardware who at least partially gained my sale due to the advertisement of TVGOS as being a standard function of my purchase, isn't both Rovi and the gear manufacturer and possibly the seller responsible for providing what they promised or be subject to a huge class action lawsuit?

Seems like those of us with components featuring TVGOS as a standard benefit deserve some sort of refund or a replacement unit which has a guide...?

Oh yeah. Every company down the line could be subject to a huge class action lawsuit. The only problem is that we consumers will only gain a $25 coupon to use toward purchase of still more electronics. The lawyers involved however, will make out like bandits . . .

Please produce that promise of service. Please show a warranty for any device that supports TVGOS that says the manufacturer guarantees TVGOS service for some period of time let alone the life of the device. More than likely you will find a disclaimer that says it cannot be guaranteed and may not be available in all areas.

It all comes down to Caveat Emptor

Edited by Rammitinski - 2/10/13 at 4:44pm