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Why don't I get enough bass from my sub with music compared to movie?

post #1 of 19
11/21/12 at 6:41pm
Thread Starter 
Using Yamah RX-V2700 receiver. Subwoofer works fine with 5.1 movies. For example, the Daft Punk soundtrack in Tron:Legacy sounds awesome. However, when I play the actual soundtrack from my music collection (2ch stereo PCM), the subwoofer is barely budging and it sounds weak as hell. The subwoofer *is* putting out some bass, but very very little. If I really crank the sub, I can get it close to the movie version, but not very -- and obviously I don't want to have to do that, because then one day I forget, play a movie, and blow my sub.

I've tried the various modes. The "enhanced" modes sound somewhat better but also processed; I don't want the sound affected really.
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post #2 of 19
11/21/12 at 7:11pm
The sound track CD is not the same as the sound track of the DVD, it won't have the LFE.
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post #3 of 19
11/21/12 at 7:54pm
You're hearing the difference in "mix".

When studios engineer the sound for a Movie, they mix a specific track for just the subwoofer. This is called ".1"

When studios engineer the sound for a CD, they mix only 2 full range channels.

The short of it is... You hear more bass because there is more bass..

biggrin.gif
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post #4 of 19
11/21/12 at 10:32pm
I'm not familiar with the Yamaha receivers, but I had a similar problem with my Denon.

I had the crossovers set to full band on my left and right, which effectively did not send anything to the sub when in stereo mode. I had to set my speakers to small, and set a crossover.

Movies have the specific .1 channel that sends the LFE right to the sub, so you'll get the bass in movies, but 2 channel has no specific bass channel and the receiver needs to know what frequency to start sending signal to the bass.
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post #5 of 19
11/21/12 at 11:05pm
Thread Starter 
Hmm. I've got the speakers set to Small and the crossover set. The sub's working, just not much. Nor is there any real bass coming out of the L and R.

I understand the different mixes and the .1, but it's seriously almost impossible to get any kind of bass with music. I have to max out the volume on my sub or on the sub output from the receiver. Otherwise it's entirely lacking in any kind of low end, even for bass-heavy stuff like the aforementioned Daft Punk. Is this what everyone does, drastically change the sub volume whenever they go from movies to music and back?
Edited by curttard - 11/21/12 at 11:34pm
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post #6 of 19
11/21/12 at 11:43pm
subwoofer volume levels using different settings for each mode?

got something turned on when watching a movie that makes the subwoofer more loud?
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post #7 of 19
11/22/12 at 1:13am
Thread Starter 
I didn't even think to see if subwoofer levels are saved per mode (2ch stereo, 5.1, etc). I'm pretty sure in the GUI there are only global options though. I'll check, though; thanks.

No extra stuff turned on for one mode versus another; I have everything on the "Straight" setting.
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post #8 of 19
11/22/12 at 1:31am
if everything was on the 'straight' ...then i would be looking at the audio file in a visual window to see any difference in the bass area.

sometimes the digital crap from the movie disc is really amped up dumb like an energy drink.
they put in everything they've got when doing the audio because there is some time that goes by and not a whole lot that needs to be done.
..or you are talking about the texture between the flour of two different room echoes not making a match, as if you are one API away from enough rest to enjoy a snack.

makes me think it is a dvd problem and a sensitive subwoofer amp.


this really shows another place about needing the equalizer done.
is it really all of the signal boosted up loud, or is there lots of peaks and dips that are hiding data in the communication from the subwoofer?

to say..
you could make the cone talk to you, but you could be missing some of the signal from the wire as if placing your hand over the other person's mouth while they are trying to talk.
(peaks and dips will do that to you)

i just kinda woke up and rubbed my eyes, went to parts express and seen they have equalizers with distortion numbers low enough to work for studio goal|aim.
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post #9 of 19
11/22/12 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Hmm. I've got the speakers set to Small and the crossover set. The sub's working, just not much. Nor is there any real bass coming out of the L and R.
I understand the different mixes and the .1, but it's seriously almost impossible to get any kind of bass with music. I have to max out the volume on my sub or on the sub output from the receiver. Otherwise it's entirely lacking in any kind of low end, even for bass-heavy stuff like the aforementioned Daft Punk. Is this what everyone does, drastically change the sub volume whenever they go from movies to music and back?

There just isn't a lot of low bass energy in music.

With my sub I find myself turning it down during movies. wink.gif
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post #10 of 19
11/22/12 at 8:17am
Something else you might consider...

Bass frequencies love to interact with your room, creating uneven bass response.

A subwoofer EQ might allow you to tame these peaks, and increase your overall gain yet still remain balanced.
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post #11 of 19
11/22/12 at 9:59am
Thread Starter 
I guess another reason this concerns me is that a lot of the walkthroughs I've read for setting up your subwoofer for your home theater suggest playing music (2ch) and then adjusting the subwoofer level until the bass sounds good, then this will supposedly be a good level for movies. If I did that, had it at a good spot for music, it would blow the cone (and probably blow out my windows) as soon as I put on a movie.
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post #12 of 19
11/22/12 at 11:00am
When a receiver is set to "pure direct" or "straight" the bass sounds are not sent to the subwoofer.
Set the receiver to 2 channel stereo and it will process to 2.1 with proper room delay and eq turned on.
All the bass should play from the subwoofer. If subwoofer is set to "both" then all speakers will play bass notes.
Paper manual pages 51 and 53 explain best. Not sure about bypassing all the "enhancers" at that point.
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post #13 of 19
11/22/12 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I guess another reason this concerns me is that a lot of the walkthroughs I've read for setting up your subwoofer for your home theater suggest playing music (2ch) and then adjusting the subwoofer level until the bass sounds good, then this will supposedly be a good level for movies. If I did that, had it at a good spot for music, it would blow the cone (and probably blow out my windows) as soon as I put on a movie.

you really have zero idea about what 'good' is for music.
they give you some flavor of candy and you dont even begin to know what color the flavor gush is about to be.. even when the instrument sounds real and live on stage, you dont know how far away the microphone was when they strip the sound of distance out of audio just like they strip the visuals of distance out of the video.
not really compression.. just extra data on a list in a notebook waiting to be heard when the bit depth goes up again.
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post #14 of 19
11/23/12 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I guess another reason this concerns me is that a lot of the walkthroughs I've read for setting up your subwoofer for your home theater suggest playing music (2ch) and then adjusting the subwoofer level until the bass sounds good, then this will supposedly be a good level for movies. If I did that, had it at a good spot for music, it would blow the cone (and probably blow out my windows) as soon as I put on a movie.

I have never read a walk through that described setting up a sub using this method.
Please post a link.
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post #15 of 19
11/23/12 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Using Yamah RX-V2700 receiver. Subwoofer works fine with 5.1 movies. For example, the Daft Punk soundtrack in Tron:Legacy sounds awesome. However, when I play the actual soundtrack from my music collection (2ch stereo PCM), the subwoofer is barely budging and it sounds weak as hell. The subwoofer *is* putting out some bass, but very very little. If I really crank the sub, I can get it close to the movie version, but not very -- and obviously I don't want to have to do that, because then one day I forget, play a movie, and blow my sub.
I've tried the various modes. The "enhanced" modes sound somewhat better but also processed; I don't want the sound affected really.

What brand/model is the subwoofer..
If it has a X-over frequency control, make sure this is set to the highest frequency such as 250Hz ...
The actual subwoofer X-over filter will be done in the AVR...


Just my $0.02... wink.gif
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post #16 of 19
11/26/12 at 9:33am
Thread Starter 
The sub amp is actually blown. I'm going from sub out of my receiver to another receiver, and then speaker out from that receiver directly to the sub speaker. The crossover is handled in the first receiver. To be clear, the sub IS working during music, just not much unless I crank the sub volume.
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post #17 of 19
11/26/12 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

The sub amp is actually blown. I'm going from sub out of my receiver to another receiver, and then speaker out from that receiver directly to the sub speaker. The crossover is handled in the first receiver. To be clear, the sub IS working during music, just not much unless I crank the sub volume.

Why don't you just get the sub amp repaired? tongue.gif
Edited by mogorf - 11/26/12 at 10:04am
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post #18 of 19
11/26/12 at 11:35am
If your sub amp is blown... It won't work at all... What's up with the funky setup?
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post #19 of 19
11/28/12 at 12:58am
Thread Starter 
No money!

It does work. The sub's amp is out of the chain entirely. Sub out from receiver to receiver #2. Speaker out from receiver #2 directly to sub speaker. Trust me, it works. Puts out plenty of bass with movies. Puts out decent bass with music if I crank up receiver #2, or the sub output of receiver #1.

Considering doing the Epik Legend deal that's going on right now, but I assume this won't change the fact that receiver #1 still is not sending any appreciable amount of bass to the sub during even the most bass-heavy music.
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