Do I need to jump to 3 Chip DLP?

If you can afford the 3 chip then I would go for it! I recently went from a jvc x70 to an older infocus 777 3 chip dlp and yes I give up some of the modern features but the 3 chip dlp just has the brightness and 3d depth that the jvc can't compete with.

If the Ls10 was in my budget I would have purchased that one, I don't think I could go back from the 3 chipper:D

Btw, when I had the x70 in my fully light controlled room, dark brown walls and ceiling at 110 diag and I was barley getting 9fl on with a new bulb.

My 777 is pushing 30fl calibrated on the same 110 zero gain white screen

regarding point 3 - the Runco you demoed uses a different size DLP chip to the LS10i. The VX11d uses the 0.95" chip, the LS10i uses the 0.67" chip. Personally, I find the bigger chips produce a better image, it can depend on lens quality as well but according to mlang46 (retired optical engineer) on here - size does indeed matter. I wouldn't want you to be dissappointed if you ended up buying the LS10i and wondered why it didn't look quite as good as the VX11D. The differences might not be that great but I thought it would be better that you know that in advance. There are plenty of threads on here of people arguing the virtues of LCOS vs DLP, DLP chip size etc.

On point 4 - it is definitely worth demoing some Sim2 models, their latest 3D models are pricey but you may be able to find an ex-demo deal from a dealer on an older Lumis. You might want to look at the Lumis Uno, it has some trade-offs (no dynamic iris, no motorized lens) but can be found for the budget you are looking at. I would also recommend looking at the Sony VW1000ES, the best non-DLP projector I have seen. It has great native contrast and can (when the content is available) do 4K resolution. Even without 4K, I'd still take a 3 chip DLP but I'd still find somewhere to demo the Sony, if you can.

Point 5 - no, I don't like micro-perfs either For 120" you would probably need to change the screen to a higher gain to use a JVC or a LS5. Whilst you could spend the money to change the screen, the labour to do so and get a JVC - personally, I'd still buy a 3-chipper. As good as the latest JVCs are, the Sim2s and the Sony are just in another league.

In terms of a long term choice, I would read some of the comments from 3 chip owners on the $20k forum, very rarely do you hear about them wanting to upgrade and I am sure they could if they wanted to.

I had the pleasure of owning the Infocus 777 for 7 years, an amazing piece of gerar to be sure.

I recently replaced it with a Sony VPL-HW50ES and I will list the ne changes in my book:


1: The Sony is much resolves detail MUCH better, I did not expect the dramatic change at my viewing distance but it is there. The Infocus Minolta lens was optically more perfect, but did not result in picture detail over the 1080chip and supporting electronic enhancements.

2: The contrast ratio / dynamic range is out of this world, the Infocus ( which I loved) looked a little flat in a Side by Side comparaison

3: Black level, absolutely no contest here, it is like when you went from a data projector to an HT optimized unit.. way back when.

4: Color Accuracy and saturation is about the same with both

5: Brightness, the Sony is about 15-20 % brighter than the 3 chip which was a big surprise.

6: Motion with the FI set to low show even less judder that the3 Chip with minimal Soap Opera effect, if at all

If I had never seen the two side by side I would still be in love with my 777 and it would be here, it is an amazing picture to this day.
It does have some of that "x factor" to the picture


3d great, not comparable or fair, but the 3d is a great addition to a system that was needing an update.



All of these tests are in my absolute blackout cave which really allows the projector to do it's best and not have to overcome the enviroment
it is in.

Have a look at the Sony and maybe wait for it's successor to the 95.... I can't say enough about this line of projectors.




TJ

I think for the sake of clarity, if the original poster doesn't know, that the Infocus 777 is a 720p projector first manufacured in 2004. As you can see from the posts above, different people prefer different qualities in image reproduction which is why I would recommend demoing

FWIW, I've got a Planar 8150 (LS5) on a 110" wide SMX AT screen (maybe 0.9 maybe 1.16x gain depending on who you ask), and I find the brightness to be quite good. I've replaced the lamp at between 1000-1500 hours so far.

Tj, glad to hear you got a pj and are happy, I'm curious though did you have you 777 pro calibrated when you had it? With the 777 it can one click away from looking ok to great!

Bob

I have a vw95 in a room almost exactly your size and a 2.37 Carada BW, 1.1 gain, 120 wide.

 

I get 14 fl off that screen in a bat cave that is satisfyingly bright for movies/hdtv, and black levels are near reference.

 

But if having some light on is part of your viewing enviornment for sports then the 3 chip DLP will pull ahead of LCOS.  The sharpness and motion handling will also be better than even the VW1000, although many report they are find no fault in those parameters.

 

It would seem the only thing that is limited in DLP is black level, and if that is not of critical importance to you, it's hard to argue against the brightness and better motion handling of DLP, especially the 3 chippers that eliminate the RBE of single chip designs.

You should see a SIM Lumis if possible. Best projector I've ever owned. Plenty bright. Excellent blacks.

Bob,

This is far more than a click away. There is no click for the resolution and sharpness difference. The black level on this is really good, the iris is undetectable.

Over the 7 years I owned it I calibrated the 777 a few times in different rooms---- .313 / .329 (2.2)

The picture looks like the 777 in every positive way...except way better blacks, natural saturation without that "DLP glow" . The highlights hold detail in areas close to 255 with none of the DLP shimmer.

Intrascene has the pop of DLP, the dynamic range is amazing, 3D is very good with minimal artifacts (using Monster 3D Visions)

Unbelievably... the HW50 is substantially brighter, more silent and economical to run. It is all around an good upgrade.

Now ....the 777 still has a picture that is amazing given it's age, and the optics are still in a different class.... but I have to say the HW50 has it beat hands down.


I will say if I had not seen them side by side I would not have believed it.

And I agree with Craig, if I could afford / justify a Sim2 Lumis 3D...without divorce proceedings..... that would be the obvious choice

All the best

TJ
Edited by tehotaone - 11/27/12 at 4:27pm

I agree there's a point that you can overspend on a pj, I too would be eating TV dinners and living in a one room apartment if I spent 20k on a pj;)

Yeah, but you'd have a Sim2 Lumis...that's a no brainer

Hello,

I have a Runco LS-10i and I am very very happy...compared against JVC X90 LCOS and Runco LS-5...in the end I choose LS-10i. The picture of LS10i is phenomenal !...very good contrast and very bright...like a big plasma!

Nuno

I hate you!........... I'm just kidding;)

Seriously though pm me in a few years when you want to sell it:D

I think when spending 25k you should either find a store where you can view them or maybe some fellow members who own them will offer you a demo.

It's like test driving a car one might have more power and the other might handle better , what features are more important to you?

I have not seen the Sony but with my x70 the panning effect with sports, hgtv was killer the way the camera moves around, the office, and movies on bluray made it difficult for me to enjoy. The modes that jvc offers to adjust motion in my opinion just don't look natural to me!

With dlp you don't notice the lag, it feels more natural.

Against the jvc the 3 chip and single chip both had more depth especially with close ups of people.

These are just some of the things I noticed, maybe others will chime in.

Bob

Did you see the Sony on fri?

The runco will have the better brightness and the Sony will offer 3d.

Either way 25k is a lot of dough to spend on a pj

This is really only answerable by you. You need to sit down and think about what YOU value most in a front projector. The DLP will have that classic "DLP" look to it. Higher ANSI contrast is a huge plus with DLP systems. It will also be brighter. Are those things you value higher? The Sony will have a better black floor due to it's dynamic iris. It is also native 4K which will make your units usable life a bit longer as you won't have a compelling need or want to upgrade in a few years. It is also 3D capable, whether or not you want to watch 3D you'll always have the option down the road if you so choose to use it. Both units are fantastic choices, but don't leave the decision up to people who don't have similar tastes. View them both and decide. I would say make sure you watch the same material on both. Mix up the content, too. Watch some high contrast stuff, bright stuff, fast motion stuff, and sports.

I saw a demo of Sony VW1000 this weekend. Very good picture. Bright and good contrast...but the color was a little off...probably needed calibration.

But sincerely I think I still prefer my Runco...color is perfect (don´t need calibration) and much more bright and punchier.

For now I don´t see much room for improvement.

Nuno

The sony while allowing cut and gain settings for each of R,G, and B does not include a CMS to set the chromacity. Any external processor with a CMS is needed for that.

SIM2 Lumis UNO has full-size (.95) DLP chips and excellent optics. It will be less "soft" looking than the Sony and it has a great color management system. You can get one for 25k. Their M.150 is also a candidate in this price range, though you would have to go down a bit in screen size to get the FL you're looking for. It makes the best picture I have ever seen.

Interesting, I saw the x70 at a dealer at the same time saw the runco vx8 (720p) and I had the same observations as you did, the x70 seemed grainy and jittery. Aside from the better blacks the runco killed it.

If you preferred the ls3 over the others than you will be thrilled with the ls10.

The other side of the coin here is the ls5 will be a little brighter and slightly better contrast due to the dc3 chip vs the dc4 on the ls5. You could save yourself a whole lot of cash and grab the ls5 and enjoy it for a while and maybe grab something new in a few years, just a thought.

It's actually .95" DC2 on the LS-3 and the .95" DC3 on the LS-5. Unless Runco has very recently changed this. Either way, both are very impressive machines. I'm a Planar PD8150 (aka LS-5) owner.