Didn't see a thread yet on this line so kicking one off.
Bought a 40ES6003 yesterday at Magnolia for $600. Considered the EH5000 and EH6000 line. Didn't really need the smart features or 3D (i.e. the ES6100 or ES6500). Strong PQ at a reasonable cost was the primamry criteria. Wanted at least 120Hz (for better 24p). Was told the ES panel was a step up from EH. My box was marked TS01.
Set the unit up today. Started with movie mode and did a quick calibration using Spears and Munsil. The picture looked very good with quite a bit of detail. A really pleasure to watch. But on dark scenes, the clouding and flashligthting were the worst I'd ever seen. Affected the corners and about a half a dozen random palm sized areas. See picture below.
Made a number of adjustments to see of I could lessen the effect (e.g., lower BL, ...), but no significant change. Applied the ES6100 calibration settings http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/samsung-lcd-tv/samsung-es6100-picturesettings.html - but the clouds and flashlighting remain. Will see if the condition gets any better over the next few days - if not back to the store.
If the next unit has the same clouding issues, I'll need a fall back. It sounds like the ES6100 and ES6500 have similar issues (they are also edge lit). Could folks please confirm the 40EH6000 at 120Hz with direct lighting is the best fallback in this class? My target size is 40" (If I could go larger I woud have gone for plasma).
Couple of other notes:
+ Being an ES6XXX model, I expected this unit to have 10 point calibration settings but I could not find it in the menu. If there is a trick to getting them exposed, please share. If Samsung cut the feature, for me it's a big disappointment since I have the equipment to measure and set these values (i.e. I paid a premium thinking the feature was supported).
+ The viewing angle is VERY limited. For my application (a bedroom) not a real issue but I would not recommend it for a family room with multiple seating positions.
+ This unit only has two HDMI inputs, ported on the side. That's what I needed for now but it's always nice to have one more.
+ Sound quality is OK - maybe a little better than what is typical. I was planning to use the analog audio out to drive some powered speakers but I heard a rumor the ouput is fixed (i.e. line level full volume) versus variable (i.e. attenuated by the current setting of the TV volume control). So I'll need to punt that plan since it's not practical to manually adjust the volume at the speakers.
+ The thin profile of the unit is really very appealing. Under 2". Looks great mounted. Just sort of floating there. BTW, the documentation is incorrect. The bolt size is actually M8 not M6 -- which is a good thing since it's a more beefy bolt.
Overall I really like the unit but the flashlighting and clouds are very hard to overlook - especially for those that care about PQ in darker scenes.
Thanks!
Update 11/27: Added picture of the clouds and flashlighting below. The clouds float over near black objects like the rectangle below. Very distracting. Are they any better on EH5000 or EH6000 models?
UPDATE 12/1: Returned the unit to Magnolia. They said the ES6003 series was created especially for the holiday session to hit a middle ground price point and they were not surprised it had these types of edge light issues. The ES7XXX which is back lit was quite a step up in price (more than double) so not really an option. They suggested trying the ES6500 since it has a different panel (240Hz versus 120Hz), but the ES6500 is now priced at $900 (versus $800 during black Friday). That’s a $300 cost swing (50%) just to see if there is a difference. I opted for trying another ES6003. I'm relieved to report that the clouding / flash lighting while present was not as bad and mostly towards the corners (will add a picture later)
CALIBRATION: I have not seen any official calibration numbers for the ES6003 line so thought I’d give it a go and try to set the white balance. Not being an expert I reread Greyscale for Dummies, a truly excellent tutorial that can be found here
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
I also downloaded the latest version of HCFR (3.0.4) from sourceforge:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hcfr/files/Windows/3.0.4.0/HCFRSetup.exe/download
Note if you have a Spyder3 colorimeter like I do, the latest driver from Datacolor (or Windows Update) will not work (you will get an “Argyll” driver error when starting HFCR). You have to use the one in the System/Program Files (x86)/HCFR Calibration/Driver directory. To do so is a little tricky since Windows wants to use the latest driver. Here’s the way I got it work: Plug in the Spyder3, go to device manger, under USB controllers find the Spyder3, uninstall the driver, unplug the Spyder3, plug it back in, when Windows starts to look for the driver online, hit “click here for status” (be quick), hit “close” which will stop the search, find the device in “other devices” (it will have a question mark), select it, hit “update driver software”, hit “browse” and point Windows to the directory above. The software does not appear signed so you will get a “Can’t verify publisher” warning. I’ve used the software for years so I’m comfortable hitting “Install anyway”. If successful, you should see a Spyder3 (Argyll) device at the top of the device list.
I visually adjusted brightness and contrast using Spears and Munsil, then turned down the Back Light to minimize clouding. For the greyscale calibration I started off with these settings:
Picture Mode = Movie
Back Light = 12 (lower to reduce clouding)
Contrast = 92
Brightness = 45
Sharp = 20
Color = 50
Tint G50/R50
Color space Auto
White Balance:
RGB offset = 25, 25, 25
RGB gain = 25, 25, 25
Gamma = 0
Dynamic Contrast = Off
Black Tone = Off
Flesh Tone = 0
Motion = Off
Color Tone = Warm 2
Size = Screen Fit
Digital Noise Filter = Auto
HDMI Black Level = Normal
Film Mode = OFF
Auto Motion Plus = Custom:
Blur Reduction 10
Judder Reduction 0
LED Motion = Off
Using the 10-100% IRE greyscale images from AVS HD 709 disk, I took this baseline reading:
As you can see the graph is pretty flat from 60%-100% grey and spot on 6500K. But the darker greys are increasing off in blue with color temps approaching 8500K. With the Spyder3, any readings lower than 20% grey are suspect, but you get the general trend line.
To flatten the low end in blue without the 10pt adjustment found in the ES6100 and ES6500 took multiple hours going back and forth with the RGB offset and gain (if your calibrating having the 10pt is a big win). Here’s where I netted out:
I was able to achieve responsibly flat response from 20%-100% with only the darkest grey off in blue. The delta E was under 3 except for 40% which crested at 4. Here are the settings for white balance I used:
RGB offset = 33, 29, 10
RGB gain = 20, 25, 32
SUBJECTIVE RESULTS: Wow, the set is really stunning! I tried some movies and the areas that really stood out were great flesh tones and really nice shadow detail. The clouds are no longer that distracting and I’m impressed what this set can produce – especially at the $600 price point.
If there are any pros out there that have taken a crack at calibration and have better numbers to share please do. For now I’m very happy with the results and will simply focus on enjoying the set!
UPDATE 12/4: Had a chance to evaluate the above settings for a couple of days. While accurate in grey, overall the image is not very bright, especially when there is other light in the room. Yes, setting the BL to 12 was by design to avoid seeing clouds, but for my tastes the picture just wasn't bright enough.
I reset everything to defaults and started over. At 100% IRE, I was measuring 46 ftL. Per the calibration guidance a good target is 30-40. More than that and the image could be fatiguing. A BL of 17 resulted in 40 ftL. I checked for clouds and what I saw was very minor. I recalibrated the white balance and was able to hit 30-100% IRE with a delta E of less than 3:
Not bad considering how tricky it is to adjust using just two controls (RGB offset and gain). I picked values that pushed errors to the darker less visible region (20% IRE and below).
Here are the new settings:
Picture Mode = Movie
Back Light = 17
Contrast = 95
Brightness = 45
Sharp = 20
Color = 50
Tint G50/R50
Color space Auto
White Balance:
RGB Offset = 34, 27, 6
RGB Gain = 16, 23, 28
Gamma = 0
Dynamic Contrast = Off
Black Tone = Off
Flesh Tone = 0
Motion = Off
SUBJECTIVE RESULTS: The picture is now much more punchy and I can even have on a light or two!! And the grey scale looks awesome with accurate color (or lack thereof) and alot of nice contrast.
Edited by nojaggies - 12/4/12 at 9:04pm
Bought a 40ES6003 yesterday at Magnolia for $600. Considered the EH5000 and EH6000 line. Didn't really need the smart features or 3D (i.e. the ES6100 or ES6500). Strong PQ at a reasonable cost was the primamry criteria. Wanted at least 120Hz (for better 24p). Was told the ES panel was a step up from EH. My box was marked TS01.
Set the unit up today. Started with movie mode and did a quick calibration using Spears and Munsil. The picture looked very good with quite a bit of detail. A really pleasure to watch. But on dark scenes, the clouding and flashligthting were the worst I'd ever seen. Affected the corners and about a half a dozen random palm sized areas. See picture below.
Made a number of adjustments to see of I could lessen the effect (e.g., lower BL, ...), but no significant change. Applied the ES6100 calibration settings http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/samsung-lcd-tv/samsung-es6100-picturesettings.html - but the clouds and flashlighting remain. Will see if the condition gets any better over the next few days - if not back to the store.
If the next unit has the same clouding issues, I'll need a fall back. It sounds like the ES6100 and ES6500 have similar issues (they are also edge lit). Could folks please confirm the 40EH6000 at 120Hz with direct lighting is the best fallback in this class? My target size is 40" (If I could go larger I woud have gone for plasma).
Couple of other notes:
+ Being an ES6XXX model, I expected this unit to have 10 point calibration settings but I could not find it in the menu. If there is a trick to getting them exposed, please share. If Samsung cut the feature, for me it's a big disappointment since I have the equipment to measure and set these values (i.e. I paid a premium thinking the feature was supported).
+ The viewing angle is VERY limited. For my application (a bedroom) not a real issue but I would not recommend it for a family room with multiple seating positions.
+ This unit only has two HDMI inputs, ported on the side. That's what I needed for now but it's always nice to have one more.
+ Sound quality is OK - maybe a little better than what is typical. I was planning to use the analog audio out to drive some powered speakers but I heard a rumor the ouput is fixed (i.e. line level full volume) versus variable (i.e. attenuated by the current setting of the TV volume control). So I'll need to punt that plan since it's not practical to manually adjust the volume at the speakers.
+ The thin profile of the unit is really very appealing. Under 2". Looks great mounted. Just sort of floating there. BTW, the documentation is incorrect. The bolt size is actually M8 not M6 -- which is a good thing since it's a more beefy bolt.
Overall I really like the unit but the flashlighting and clouds are very hard to overlook - especially for those that care about PQ in darker scenes.
Thanks!
Update 11/27: Added picture of the clouds and flashlighting below. The clouds float over near black objects like the rectangle below. Very distracting. Are they any better on EH5000 or EH6000 models?
UPDATE 12/1: Returned the unit to Magnolia. They said the ES6003 series was created especially for the holiday session to hit a middle ground price point and they were not surprised it had these types of edge light issues. The ES7XXX which is back lit was quite a step up in price (more than double) so not really an option. They suggested trying the ES6500 since it has a different panel (240Hz versus 120Hz), but the ES6500 is now priced at $900 (versus $800 during black Friday). That’s a $300 cost swing (50%) just to see if there is a difference. I opted for trying another ES6003. I'm relieved to report that the clouding / flash lighting while present was not as bad and mostly towards the corners (will add a picture later)
CALIBRATION: I have not seen any official calibration numbers for the ES6003 line so thought I’d give it a go and try to set the white balance. Not being an expert I reread Greyscale for Dummies, a truly excellent tutorial that can be found here
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
I also downloaded the latest version of HCFR (3.0.4) from sourceforge:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hcfr/files/Windows/3.0.4.0/HCFRSetup.exe/download
Note if you have a Spyder3 colorimeter like I do, the latest driver from Datacolor (or Windows Update) will not work (you will get an “Argyll” driver error when starting HFCR). You have to use the one in the System/Program Files (x86)/HCFR Calibration/Driver directory. To do so is a little tricky since Windows wants to use the latest driver. Here’s the way I got it work: Plug in the Spyder3, go to device manger, under USB controllers find the Spyder3, uninstall the driver, unplug the Spyder3, plug it back in, when Windows starts to look for the driver online, hit “click here for status” (be quick), hit “close” which will stop the search, find the device in “other devices” (it will have a question mark), select it, hit “update driver software”, hit “browse” and point Windows to the directory above. The software does not appear signed so you will get a “Can’t verify publisher” warning. I’ve used the software for years so I’m comfortable hitting “Install anyway”. If successful, you should see a Spyder3 (Argyll) device at the top of the device list.
I visually adjusted brightness and contrast using Spears and Munsil, then turned down the Back Light to minimize clouding. For the greyscale calibration I started off with these settings:
Picture Mode = Movie
Back Light = 12 (lower to reduce clouding)
Contrast = 92
Brightness = 45
Sharp = 20
Color = 50
Tint G50/R50
Color space Auto
White Balance:
RGB offset = 25, 25, 25
RGB gain = 25, 25, 25
Gamma = 0
Dynamic Contrast = Off
Black Tone = Off
Flesh Tone = 0
Motion = Off
Color Tone = Warm 2
Size = Screen Fit
Digital Noise Filter = Auto
HDMI Black Level = Normal
Film Mode = OFF
Auto Motion Plus = Custom:
Blur Reduction 10
Judder Reduction 0
LED Motion = Off
Using the 10-100% IRE greyscale images from AVS HD 709 disk, I took this baseline reading:
As you can see the graph is pretty flat from 60%-100% grey and spot on 6500K. But the darker greys are increasing off in blue with color temps approaching 8500K. With the Spyder3, any readings lower than 20% grey are suspect, but you get the general trend line.
To flatten the low end in blue without the 10pt adjustment found in the ES6100 and ES6500 took multiple hours going back and forth with the RGB offset and gain (if your calibrating having the 10pt is a big win). Here’s where I netted out:
I was able to achieve responsibly flat response from 20%-100% with only the darkest grey off in blue. The delta E was under 3 except for 40% which crested at 4. Here are the settings for white balance I used:
RGB offset = 33, 29, 10
RGB gain = 20, 25, 32
SUBJECTIVE RESULTS: Wow, the set is really stunning! I tried some movies and the areas that really stood out were great flesh tones and really nice shadow detail. The clouds are no longer that distracting and I’m impressed what this set can produce – especially at the $600 price point.
If there are any pros out there that have taken a crack at calibration and have better numbers to share please do. For now I’m very happy with the results and will simply focus on enjoying the set!
UPDATE 12/4: Had a chance to evaluate the above settings for a couple of days. While accurate in grey, overall the image is not very bright, especially when there is other light in the room. Yes, setting the BL to 12 was by design to avoid seeing clouds, but for my tastes the picture just wasn't bright enough.
I reset everything to defaults and started over. At 100% IRE, I was measuring 46 ftL. Per the calibration guidance a good target is 30-40. More than that and the image could be fatiguing. A BL of 17 resulted in 40 ftL. I checked for clouds and what I saw was very minor. I recalibrated the white balance and was able to hit 30-100% IRE with a delta E of less than 3:
Not bad considering how tricky it is to adjust using just two controls (RGB offset and gain). I picked values that pushed errors to the darker less visible region (20% IRE and below).
Here are the new settings:
Picture Mode = Movie
Back Light = 17
Contrast = 95
Brightness = 45
Sharp = 20
Color = 50
Tint G50/R50
Color space Auto
White Balance:
RGB Offset = 34, 27, 6
RGB Gain = 16, 23, 28
Gamma = 0
Dynamic Contrast = Off
Black Tone = Off
Flesh Tone = 0
Motion = Off
SUBJECTIVE RESULTS: The picture is now much more punchy and I can even have on a light or two!! And the grey scale looks awesome with accurate color (or lack thereof) and alot of nice contrast.
Edited by nojaggies - 12/4/12 at 9:04pm
