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BIC-12 vs RW-12D

post #1 of 61
11/26/12 at 1:54pm
Thread Starter 
To give a littlebackground..
Room Dimension: 16x22 with vaulted ceilings about 20 ft high at the peak.
Distance from sub: 8 ft on left corner of the room.
Satellites+Center channel: Athena S.5
Receiver: OnkyoSR608
Was using Def-tech pro sub 600.

The problem I was having earlier was, no matter how well I tune my sub, It was boomy, and muddled. I spent a couple of years trying to tune it and finally gave up and sold it. I was listening to it with -10db on receiver with a LFE of 120hz. and crossover on the sub at 80 to make it bearable.

Now I have narrowed it down to BIC F 12 and RW-12D (Klispch).

I want to know your opinions. One is $199 on amazon, while Klipsch is $299 (OOS right now with a ETA of 11/29) on newegg.
My budget is $300 tops.
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post #2 of 61
11/26/12 at 2:07pm
Of the two you listed, I'd go with the RW-12d. But if there's any way you can squeeze another $99 out of your budget, I suggest you consider the Epik Legend ($399, shipped - add to cart to see the updated price).
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post #3 of 61
11/26/12 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 
I was seriously considering it , but after reading the amp blown issues and customer service issues.. I decided against it.


Also for the room I have ... a more power ful sub will be a overkill ?? Is it?
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post #4 of 61
11/26/12 at 4:48pm
Also, consider buying your subs in pairs so as to help fill in the sound voids the room acoustics cause.

Another vote for the Klipsch, RW-12d.'

Keep an eye on Newegg as they're suppose to get more Klipsch, RW-12d's in on Friday and they've been selling them for $300.00.
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post #5 of 61
11/26/12 at 5:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Also, consider buying your subs in pairs so as to help fill in the sound voids the room acoustics cause.
Another vote for the Klipsch, RW-12d.'
Keep an eye on Newegg as they're suppose to get more Klipsch, RW-12d's in on Friday and they've been selling them for $300.00.


Thats what my hope is.. I am eagerly waiting for 29th .. but in the mean time BIC is $100 cheaper and seems to have great reviews too.

Epik seems very good but with all the issues I dont think I will risk it.. sending them back is a big deal if at all it fails.
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post #6 of 61
11/26/12 at 5:27pm
They still had some of those jamo 650s on amazon for 220 shipped earlier today. I'd check and see if they still have them smile.gif
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post #7 of 61
11/26/12 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardrock_121 View Post

Thats what my hope is.. I am eagerly waiting for 29th .. but in the mean time BIC is $100 cheaper and seems to have great reviews too.
Epik seems very good but with all the issues I dont think I will risk it.. sending them back is a big deal if at all it fails.

The Klipsch subs have better extension at both ends of the frequency spectrum and check out the differences in the output of the subs amplifiers. BIC uses an amplifier that's 150w RMS with a peak of 475w where-as the Klipsch, RW-12d subs use an amplifier that is rated 350w RMS with peaks of 825w. It's your choice which sub amplifier you want in your system. Are you about a hundred bucks or are you about twice as much power for a hundred bucks?

......................(whistling emoticon goes here)..........................
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post #8 of 61
11/26/12 at 5:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

The Klipsch subs have better extension at both ends of the frequency spectrum and check out the differences in the output of the subs amplifiers. BIC uses an amplifier that's 150w RMS with a peak of 475w where-as the Klipsch, RW-12d subs use an amplifier that is rated 350w RMS with peaks of 825w. It's your choice which sub amplifier you want in your system. Are you about a hundred bucks or are you about twice as much power for a hundred bucks?
......................(whistling emoticon goes here)..........................


haha.. thats the never ending question.. I feel (or so does my wife) that $400 is a bit too much for my system .. $300 is the sweet spot. I might ..( i say might) for $400 if I am getting really good value for it.
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post #9 of 61
11/26/12 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardrock_121 View Post

haha.. thats the never ending question.. I feel (or so does my wife) that $400 is a bit too much for my system .. $300 is the sweet spot. I might ..( i say might) for $400 if I am getting really good value for it.

If Newegg comes through on the 29th, you'll get a delivered killer deal for $300.00 and you can then spend the extra hundred on your lady. Wives are pretty easy like that.
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post #10 of 61
11/26/12 at 5:59pm
Go with the Klipsch. With vaulted ceilings, then your room 16 X 26, is large.
The Klipsch used to go for $550 plus. 350W amp.....12" nice driver, oh c'mon $100 more is
OK (isn't it?) biggrin.gif Bic puts out a lot of sound but you're back to boomy, again.

vardo
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post #11 of 61
11/26/12 at 8:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vardo View Post

Go with the Klipsch. With vaulted ceilings, then your room 16 X 26, is large.
The Klipsch used to go for $550 plus. 350W amp.....12" nice driver, oh c'mon $100 more is
OK (isn't it?) biggrin.gif Bic puts out a lot of sound but you're back to boomy, again.
vardo

Yea I am ok with $300 for RW-12ds .. was just thinking if I get 90% of performance from BIC then I can live with it and save 100 but doesnt look like it. I will go with klipsch now only hope is newegg should still sell it at 299.
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post #12 of 61
11/26/12 at 8:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

If Newegg comes through on the 29th, you'll get a delivered killer deal for $300.00 and you can then spend the extra hundred on your lady. Wives are pretty easy like that.
That will please the wifey more.. so lets hope so.
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post #13 of 61
11/26/12 at 9:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardrock_121 View Post

Yea I am ok with $300 for RW-12ds .. was just thinking if I get 90% of performance from BIC then I can live with it and save 100 but doesnt look like it. I will go with klipsch now only hope is newegg should still sell it at 299.
I have both the F12 and RW12. I like them both but the Klipsch is worth the extra $100.
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post #14 of 61
11/27/12 at 12:08pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks.. and this sub should be able to take in one RCA as LFE input , since I have only one RCA wired in the wall back to the receiver's pre out.
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post #15 of 61
11/27/12 at 12:14pm
Quote:
... this sub should be able to take in one RCA as LFE input ...
Yes. According to the owner's manual (PDF):
Quote:
RW-10d / RW-12d / RSW-10d
“LINE IN” - ... Connect to the “RIGHT” and/or “LEFT/LFE” inputs on the subwoofer’s rear panel ...
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post #16 of 61
12/1/12 at 8:41am
Thread Starter 
crap /.. its in store now... but at $500 nt $300 ..now what.. what other options do I have in $300 budget which doesnt have major quality issues. I am tempted with epik fir $400 but with the issues people have mentioned. I am a litte skeptical about that.
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post #17 of 61
12/1/12 at 8:51am
They "usually" go on sale on the weekend. Maybe it will be next weekend, maybe not.
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post #18 of 61
12/1/12 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardrock_121 View Post

crap /.. its in store now... but at $500 nt $300 ..now what.. what other options do I have in $300 budget which doesnt have major quality issues. I am tempted with epik fir $400 but with the issues people have mentioned. I am a litte skeptical about that.
Nearly guaranteed on sale before Christmas. You can wait. You will be glad you did.
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post #19 of 61
12/2/12 at 1:39pm
It's on sale now
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post #20 of 61
12/4/12 at 9:24am
Just ordered an RW-12D smile.gif

I could use some help setting it up - what do you set the LFE, Crossover, and Volume to on the AVR & Sub? Should I run Audyssey first or after I've changed my mains to small?

Im sure someone has already answered this, if anyone could forward me any links that would helpful!
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post #21 of 61
12/4/12 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by haargerman View Post

Just ordered an RW-12D smile.gif
I could use some help setting it up - what do you set the LFE, Crossover, and Volume to on the AVR & Sub? Should I run Audyssey first or after I've changed my mains to small?
Im sure someone has already answered this, if anyone could forward me any links that would helpful!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1
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post #22 of 61
12/4/12 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by haargerman View Post

Just ordered an RW-12D smile.gif
I could use some help setting it up - what do you set the LFE, Crossover, and Volume to on the AVR & Sub? Should I run Audyssey first or after I've changed my mains to small?
Im sure someone has already answered this, if anyone could forward me any links that would helpful!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416127/any-special-considerations-for-hooking-up-the-klipsch-reference-rw-12d-12-powered-subwoofer
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post #23 of 61
12/4/12 at 12:52pm
Thank you both!
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post #24 of 61
12/6/12 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 
I jumped on it...got it today. I must say I am not yet overwhelmed by the performance. It's probably just me and e default settings. But damn, this is huge.
Unfortunately I can't run audessy since my receiver is in the basement. My mains seems pretty bright I.e. sub over powering the bass leaving mains sound bright.
Here are my settings
Receiver
Lpf on lLFE 120hz
Mains 100hz
Center 120hz
Sub:
Vol -2db
LPF on Lfe: off
Eq: punch.
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post #25 of 61
12/7/12 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardrock_121 View Post

I jumped on it...got it today. I must say I am not yet overwhelmed by the performance. It's probably just me and e default settings. But damn, this is huge.
Unfortunately I can't run audessy since my receiver is in the basement. My mains seems pretty bright I.e. sub over powering the bass leaving mains sound bright.
Here are my settings
Receiver
Lpf on lLFE 120hz
Mains 100hz
Center 120hz
Sub:
Vol -2db
LPF on Lfe: off
Eq: punch.

Your mains are rated to 80hz. Perhaps try setting your crossover to 80hz for your mains and see if you like it better.

Room placement is key as well, have you tried the subwoofer crawl? Also note if you are sitting in the center of the room, you are sitting in a bass null. A $1000 sub won't sound great either if you have bad placement or are sitting in a null.
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post #26 of 61
12/7/12 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardrock_121 View Post

Unfortunately I can't run audessy since my receiver is in the basement.

You know you have to fix that. tongue.gif

Stating the obvious, with your speaker system upstairs, sitting in the basement, Audyssey ain't gonna do your system any good. confused.gif
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post #27 of 61
12/7/12 at 7:21am
use depth mode for movies and content that produces the very low stuff. punch mode for music that doesnt go too low in the frequency spectrum
also give it a chance go get broke in
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post #28 of 61
12/7/12 at 1:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Your mains are rated to 80hz. Perhaps try setting your crossover to 80hz for your mains and see if you like it better.
Room placement is key as well, have you tried the subwoofer crawl? Also note if you are sitting in the center of the room, you are sitting in a bass null. A $1000 sub won't sound great either if you have bad placement or are sitting in a null.

I tried that with my old sub and didnt like the result .. i will try again and see how it works now.
I am in the horizontal center with sub and back speakers 6-7 ft diagonally from me.. while the front mains are 10ft from me and center is about 6ft. Its a perfectly rectangle room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

You know you have to fix that. tongue.gif
Stating the obvious, with your speaker system upstairs, sitting in the basement, Audyssey ain't gonna do your system any good. confused.gif
I cant fix that.. its all wired. THats why ihavent even opened it yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

use depth mode for movies and content that produces the very low stuff. punch mode for music that doesnt go too low in the frequency spectrum
also give it a chance go get broke in

Do you guys change it on demand? Did u program your remotes to do that?
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post #29 of 61
12/7/12 at 7:42pm
I set my RW-12 on flat for everything but maybe that's just me.
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post #30 of 61
12/7/12 at 9:40pm
FYI, there are frequency response graphs on here somewhere that show depth mode stays flatter lower in the frequency range, making it a good option for movies and music with the really low stuff. Punch mode has more output at higher frequencies making it better for normal music listening. Flat mode is the worse of both worlds, it falls off sooner than depth and has less output than punch higher in the frequency range. But do as you desire.
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