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New Vector SSD looks very interesting. Is this the BEST NEW SSD for 2013 ? - Page 6

post #151 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

That would be soooooooo fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFL, that guy's thread cracked me up

The thread starts great. It's title in the lobby is :



Looks like a pretty normal thread. Seems like someone is always asking that. Only extreme part might be he wants a 512GB which is rather large. Infact- I think 256GB is large for most. But he probably wants the extra speed and capacity so no big deal I think.

Enter the thread and you see it's a simple one line comment.:



I almost automatically assumed it was a joke.

It seems more like a joke than reality. Then the kid posts up a picture of his 6 SSD's he bought.

He's my hero.
post #152 of 212
I think he will return the 5 still in shrink wrap.
post #153 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

512GB X (6) = RAID 0 3TB SSD BOOT DRIVE.

512GB X (6) = RAID 0 3TB SSD BOOT DRIVE.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285673
That is serious business.

I want that - but sadly I did not win the powerball. frown.gif
post #154 of 212
Thread Starter 
I'm pretty sure he's serious as heart attack.

I'd expect benchmarks by end of the week.
post #155 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I want that - but sadly I did not win the powerball. frown.gif


Tell me about it.


That's about $2000 SSD with 3TB capacity and 3000MB/sec read speed!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I'm pretty sure he's serious as heart attack.
I'd expect benchmarks by end of the week.




True to his word he did post up some first attempt benchmarks- which he appears to be satisfied with and not going to tweak.
post #156 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Tell me about it.
That's about $2000 SSD with 3TB capacity and 3000MB/sec read speed!

Most impressive indeed.
Did you see the 3x7970 he is using?
I would like to see how it does on MadVR + SVP
post #157 of 212
Thread Starter 
128 GB review is up

Quote:
On our charts today we put the OCZ Vector up against a number of previous generation 128GB drives, Vector 256GB and the SLC wonder drive, SuperSSpeed S301. Vector 128GB blew away all of the previous generation drives by a good margin in many of the tests.

Read more at http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5110/ocz_vector_128gb_ssd_review/index15.html#Txu6ZlPycYeiToFd.99
post #158 of 212
I think its somewhat silly that they didn't put the Samsung 840 Pro into that comparison, because its generally considered the fastest SSD right now. The test are all last generation SSDs, and the 840 Pro and the vector are both of a new generation.
post #159 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

I think its somewhat silly that they didn't put the Samsung 840 Pro into that comparison, because its generally considered the fastest SSD right now. The test are all last generation SSDs, and the 840 Pro and the vector are both of a new generation.

Right.

If you read the article they explain that they have not tested it yet and want to grab a couple recent new high end drives like that to compare. They have a shoot out scheduled in next couple weeks and are waiting on those drives.

Vector and Samsung 840PRO basically exchange blows head to head... in almost every scenario and both are regarded as the top drives out.

I agree.

I think the only real value of that article was showing how much the newer current SSD drives have improved over 12 month old models.

I can't say I place any more value in that article other than that. For determining the KING we would need a better review.

I only posted it because many are looking for 128GB drives and drives under $150- while many reviews are for $200+ drives and 256GB or larger sizes.

IN RELATION TO HTPC's:
I am thinking a normal Samsung 840 or a VERTEX4 128GB @ $80 is probably the best choice for HTPC right now. The little brothers of the 840PRO and VECTOR offer near 90% performance for 50% the cost- feature the better controllers- and generally outpace the older sandforce and marvel drives so many have recommended around here for a long time.
post #160 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post

Most impressive indeed.
Did you see the 3x7970 he is using?
I would like to see how it does on MadVR + SVP

I should you could run max enabled without trouble...

Those gamer boys don't mess around.
post #161 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

I think its somewhat silly that they didn't put the Samsung 840 Pro into that comparison, because its generally considered the fastest SSD right now. The test are all last generation SSDs, and the 840 Pro and the vector are both of a new generation.

Right.

If you read the article they explain that they have not tested it yet and want to grab a couple recent new high end drives like that to compare. They have a shoot out scheduled in next couple weeks and are waiting on those drives.

Vector and Samsung 840PRO basically exchange blows head to head... in almost every scenario and both are regarded as the top drives out.

I agree.

I think the only real value of that article was showing how much the newer current SSD drives have improved over 12 month old models.

I can't say I place any more value in that article other than that. For determining the KING we would need a better review.

I only posted it because many are looking for 128GB drives and drives under $150- while many reviews are for $200+ drives and 256GB or larger sizes.

IN RELATION TO HTPC's:
I am thinking a normal Samsung 840 or a VERTEX4 128GB @ $80 is probably the best choice for HTPC right now. The little brothers of the 840PRO and VECTOR offer near 90% performance for 50% the cost- feature the better controllers- and generally outpace the older sandforce and marvel drives so many have recommended around here for a long time.




.....


Or .....






you could RAID0 two $49 VERTEX3 and have a very fast 240GB SSD for $99

Here is quick benchmark while downloading and also running mediamaster on my second monitor right now and without optimization on my Z68 Intel board and integrated Intel RAID native in BIOS.



$99 it does not get any faster or more capacity than this.
post #162 of 212
Thread Starter 
Anyone know or have idea when new sandforce controller is due?


Sandforce gets beat up a lot for various issues but they do some things really well. If they clean up the negatives in a new version if be curious to see how it stands up.

I am assuming a new Sandforce controller is on the way... anyone have any details?
post #163 of 212
Thread Starter 
FYI:

New Review up at Neo pretty much sums up what others said:
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/ocz_vertor_256gb/8.html
Quote:
In a market loaded with similar products it can be difficult to create something that stands out from the crowd, and even more difficult to create one that delivers on what it promises. Yet that is exactly what OCZ did when they released the Vector series of solid state drives based on their Indilinx Barefoot 3 controller; they promised extreme performance and delivered.

OCZ's Vector series took a huge leap forward with the introduction of the Indilinx Barefoot 3, the first controller and firmware designed entirely in-house by the manufacturer. Featuring an Advanced NAND management suite of tools to safeguard against the wear an tear of every day use, the Vector series is capable of 20GBs of host writes for 5 years. In terms of performance the Vector not only met our expectations but far surpassed them. For instance the Vector scored a wicked fast 0.04ms access time in the AS SSD benchmark. Meanwhile booting into the OS took just 7 seconds, with no waiting while background programs loaded.

For those of you that have been hesitant about making the move to a solid state drive, there's never been a better time than now to make the jump as the Vector series has demonstrated that the days of needing to update the SSD firmware right out of the box are long gone; now you can simply plug it in and load your favorite OS and drivers, and you are good to go. Prices for the Vector series range from $139~$499 depending on the capacity of the drive you choose, and when you include the 5 year warranty you can't go wrong.

I have been following closely the 840PRO and the Vector as I am in the market for a 256GB high end SSD for my desktop.

Anyone have an idea how the lower access time of the Vector over the 840PRO might make a difference real world ???

It doesn't show up in synthetic benchmarks accept ones that record access time- but I assume it would translate into a real world experience ??? yes ?
post #164 of 212
Thread Starter 
Sadly while reports have been positive the price trends have not:(

I'm in market for a high end 256gb fit my workstation.

840Pro and Vector and perhaps m5pro lead the list...

None are cheap frown.gif
post #165 of 212
Good hardware is never cheap. tongue.gif
post #166 of 212
Yeah, the 250GB 840 has been $150 at least once a week for the past 4 weeks, but I've not seen a single deal on the 840 Pro
post #167 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Yeah, the 250GB 840 has been $150 at least once a week for the past 4 weeks, but I've not seen a single deal on the 840 Pro

Right. I don't want the crappy NAND inside the normal 840.

Vector actually is most consistent in the benchmarks that translate directly to OS typical usage ... But the Samsung is optimized for specific things.

I'd be happy with either but not for $250+

I'm not in a super rush to upgrade my MAX IOPS Toogle NAND drive just yet.
post #168 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Yeah, the 250GB 840 has been $150 at least once a week for the past 4 weeks, but I've not seen a single deal on the 840 Pro

The 256GB 840 Pro was on sale for $200 at newegg for a few days a week or two ago.
post #169 of 212
Thread Starter 
I'd like a 840pro or a Vector under $199 or a $150 Vertex4 or M5 Pro... 256GB sized.

Those seem like best 4 choices.
post #170 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

You aren't going to notice a 10% increased benchmark in real world htpc applications.

When scrolling through hi-res movie/album art, you will, assuming your collection is large enough.
post #171 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricN View Post

When scrolling through hi-res movie/album art, you will, assuming your collection is large enough.

10%?

Again, I highly doubt it. 10% benchmark difference does not equal anywhere near 10% real world difference. And even if that were the case you are talking a difference of like 2 seconds down to 1.8 seconds. You are going to notice that?

Again, I highly doubt it.
post #172 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricN View Post

When scrolling through hi-res movie/album art, you will, assuming your collection is large enough.

That is true...^

But- Your not allowed to have a "high performance" HTPC. This is AVS...

Every single HTPC must be an i3 like CPU with a 400 watt Seasonic PSU... and a basic SSD.

If you use a high performance SSD, a CPU more than dual core, or a PSU that is not a 400 watt seasonic your doing HTPC wrong. tongue.gif

In all seriousness- This SSD is for my workstation. It's much more gaming and workstation duties than HTPC. It's not even hooked up to a TV.

I want the speed because I like it. I absolutely hammer my PC in a way that would bring most normal HTPC's to it's knees. I hate waiting and I appreciate the high performance enough to spend my cash on it.

I chuckle when many question you can not "feel" a difference. I always think : "really?... Because you spend many thousand dollars on a machine and ran that back to back with yours ???"

The entire argument is old and tired IMO.

I have built 20 PC's in last year. I own and operate daily various 1155 socket machines from a G620 up to an i7 on various levels and purposed builds.

While I am quick to admit in my personal HPTC the upgrade from a G630 to a 3570k was not huge (it's a pure HPTC only) I've found the total opposite to be true on my desktop. I tried using a G630 for a short time when I was swapping out my workstation case and it was way slower for what I do. The SSD, the half the DDR3 and the slower CPU were all readily noticable. I would not want to live daily with that machine as my workstation daily driver. It's not up to the task.

I just have a small issue with people who make statements about there is no difference with something they have not actually tested or tried themselves.

How you use your machine have great effect on the perception. As does your relative personal performance compass and how accurately it's calibrated.

For me- Using an overclocked i7, 16GB DDR3 and a fast SSD- with a $80 gaming mouse pad, $110 gaming mouse, $140 keyboard... on dual 27" monitors +23" ---> the amount of speed and control I have makes using other machines very noticeable. Most people can't even use my mouse it's so sensitive, yet I've been playing real time strategy games and using it for so long my accuracy is beyond pro. I don't want to move the mouse all the way across my mouse pad to move all the way across my 1920x1200 screen. That can be done with very little movement of the hand IMO.

I can tell the difference and downgrade with a 2500k machine in my office with relative drop in speed. (2500k machine is still an animal) The difference between a pentium or even i3 is noticable. As is a SSD.

the biggest thing I can stress about my experience is 3 things:

#1: The machine must be balanced to notice a difference. Example: High performance SSD should be matched to a quad core i5 or higher, and the rest of the system should match the level of performance. A PC only works or feels as fast as it's bottleneck part. If that part isn't the SSD then your not going to notice a difference so save your $$$

#2: Unless your going back to back from one machine to another a normal person is never going to notice the difference. Sure there is a difference between a fast SSD and a normal SSD, and also a difference with i7 versus say an i3. But if your not accustomed to the higher level of performance as your "normal" your never going to know the difference or notice it personally. Most times people upgrade their PC, not downgrade. So everything feels fast. If you had an older dual core and you bought a newer more powerful one of coarse the new machine will feel faster. Same if you never had SSD or had a slow one.. a new one will feel faster. You'll never realize that a higher performance model would be even faster since you never experienced it. Your normal or slow purchase won't feel normal or slow. For this reason- I think many people without a very high performance PC like to regurgitate "there is no real world difference" when talking about high end parts because honestly they are just plain ignorant to it all. It's a combo of wanting to believe that, reading that, and having never experienced or tested themselves.

#3. How you use the machine. If your using it to play movies then I'll stand up and agree that a high performance SSD or a high end 4 core CPU is major overkill. You won't appreciate the full potential of those parts so in many ways it's a waste of $$. But if you use your PC as a workstation, and do many tasts at once your going to notice a huge difference. Often times I run Mediamaster on one monitor, Have downloads running on another, and have a web browser running on a third. I open multiple folders and drag and drop. have 3 or more simultaneous copy paste functions running from one destination to another... and surf AVS in between organizing media, even gaming. I'll encode while gaming... lol. I like watching TV like an NFL game while doing something on the other monitor. I like browsing the web on a space monitor while staging for a 3v3 strategy game.. I just do some "normal" stuff that's much harder on a PC than most users. I don't mean to sound arrogant or brag or what not- but I honestly question if the average person brain thinks fast enough to even try to use a PC the way I do. It's probably my ADD and too much coffee but I try to do tons of things at once on my workstation- and I absolutely hate waiting for tasks to complete. I won't sit and wait for something to finish. I'll open up something else and begin another task while waiting... I just totally kill my PC. I'm in the minority for sure. I don't see the majority of people spending $80 on a mouse pad for that extra level of control and speed and accuracy. But if I do because I notice and appreciate the difference then who the hell can sit there and tell me I am wrong ??? As a Gamer- there is a huge difference in your mouse and pad. So- As a power user there is also a difference in your SSD. Like only a gamer would appreciate the difference in the gaming mouse, only a power user will appreciate the difference a high end SSD is going to make.
post #173 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

The entire argument is old and tired IMO.

You need to educate yourself on the absolute vs relative differences.

http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-absolute-and-vs-relative/
post #174 of 212
Being a notebook only guy I have my sights set on one of these once a few others take the plunge first of course http://www.anandtech.com/show/6614/microncrucial-announces-m500-ssd-line-of-ssds .... 14 % spare area, up to 960 GB useable .. and hopefully reasonable prices
post #175 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I think many people without a very high performance PC like to regurgitate "there is no real world difference" when talking about high end parts because honestly they are just plain ignorant to it all. It's a combo of wanting to believe that, reading that, and having never experienced or tested themselves.

This is one of the most ridiculous and insulting statements I have ever read here or elsewhere.

This garbage coming from a person that is constantly asking others for their opinions and regurgitating crap he has read on other sites as gospel. Not even 1 time have I ever read where he has actually tested something, posted data from that test, or even referenced actual data to back up his claims despite me and others asking him to do this on multiple occassions.

That's what old and tired.
post #176 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

10%?

Again, I highly doubt it. 10% benchmark difference does not equal anywhere near 10% real world difference. And even if that were the case you are talking a difference of like 2 seconds down to 1.8 seconds. You are going to notice that?

Again, I highly doubt it.

I hate to battle with you over and over but you need to open your mind to the idea that other people might use a PC differently than you and their level or patience or desired level of performance might be different.

I'd rather not want to wait .2 seconds if I could help it. I must be different than you.

If I have a large collection of movies and I open my front end- I want all the album art and covers to be populated. I want that instantly. As fast as possible. I don't want to wait a second or two... I do not even to wait a split second.

It's not acceptable to me.

It's obviously acceptable to you.

Personality differences.


There is no such thing as PC that is too fast.


Part of me wants to save these threads we battle on these issues and then revisit these in the future when the technology and the "normal" level of PC performance is increased. Imagine if we had this argument 5 years ago, and I gave you a modern SSD based PC today as compared to your 5 year old HDD based PC. You'd notice a difference right ? Well I am pretty sure (guessing) that will happen in the future. In 5 or 10 years our current PC's will feel and perform slow and be antiques. They will be below the normal level of acceptable performance.

At which point- I'd love to bring this thread to your attention and make you suffer with a 5 year old machine. You said it was enough right ? There is no real world difference right ? It's fast enough right ? Good enough right ?

That said,

I think it is important to at least note:

There is a point of diminishing returns that makes all "high end" parts a poor choice for general use. They cost more, and provide ever increasingly smaller performance gains creating a less favorable value proposition. I'm not at all advocating everyone should be using high end parts to build a PC or HTPC. I'm only suggesting you should open your horizon and be more accepting of such as a possibility.

There is nothing wrong with building a high performance HTPC with an i7, a high end video card, a PSU greater than 400 watts, and a 256GB+ high end SSD. Nothing wrong at all.

Perhaps they want to run Jinc /Madvr/re-clock/SVP level 5 etc... and they are matching it to a $50,000 Home Theater where it fits appropriately. I've seen some people spend hundreds of thousands on some really trick theaters on this site AVS. It's long been common place to see people spend ten thousand dollars on a projector or a set of speakers at this site.

For some reason spending a few hundred on nice PC hardware is wrong ??????

Listen to what everyone is telling you in this thread. Your arguing with yourself. No one is saying everyone should or must go high end, but you continue argue against we are. At least for me- I'm just defending the option and personal right to pursue that option. I have a rather modest $500 HTPC with integrated graphics. I use and enjoy it daily. It's more than enough. But I totally see and understand many reasons why someone might want a higher performance HTPC, including a larger faster SSD.

Why are you so against the option ?
Edited by Mfusick - 2/7/13 at 2:26pm
post #177 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

This is one of the most ridiculous and insulting statements I have ever read here or elsewhere.

This garbage coming from a person that is constantly asking others for their opinions and regurgitating crap he has read on other sites as gospel. Not even 1 time have I ever read where he has actually tested something, posted data from that test, or even referenced actual data to back up his claims despite me and others asking him to do this on multiple occassions.

That's what old and tired.

I was not talking about you but more in general so please hold your offense.

I'm telling you with absolute certainty I have personally tested it. There is a difference with the speed.

I have a G620/H61 with a 60GB Sata 2 Vertex2 in my office. I also have a 2500k on Asus Z68 with 120GB Sata3 right next to it. There is a difference. Even at just opening a program or doing simple things.
Not saying the lesser machine is not more than enough or acceptable... Just that there is a "real work difference"

I also have a 3570k at home, A G630, and a 2600k Overclocked. I have a Toggle Nand SSD MAX IOPS, A normal Sata 3 120GB, and a RAID0 SSD array (240GB)
I'm telling you beyond certainty there is a very real world difference in the speed when installing or opening a heavy program. The larger the amount of writes or reads the more the difference is noticeable.

I'm not sure it's a factor at all for watching a movie or a normal HTPC application- but to just dismiss the idea utterly and in it's entirety that there is or isn't a difference with high end parts like a high end SSD is not just short sighted it's plain wrong.

If it's needed or not- is a logical argument. It's far more logical than saying there is no difference. There is obviously a difference even if the difference is not that obvious.
post #178 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

10%?

Again, I highly doubt it. 10% benchmark difference does not equal anywhere near 10% real world difference. And even if that were the case you are talking a difference of like 2 seconds down to 1.8 seconds. You are going to notice that?

You haven't met my fiance. Yes, users can absolutely notice differences in UI speed at that scale. Even shaving 50ms off a UI response is a major improvement. The difference between "snappy" and "sluggish" matters for WAF.
post #179 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricN View Post

You haven't met my fiance. Yes, users can absolutely notice differences in UI speed at that scale. Even shaving 50ms off a UI response is a major improvement. The difference between "snappy" and "sluggish" matters for WAF.

+1.

It's personal tolerance and patience.

Sure you can still use your front end if it takes an extra second to populate the GUI or the cover art and enjoy it. But who wants to wait even tenths of a second if you don't have to do that ?

It's certainly not wrong to desire a HTPC that can perform at a high level of performance.
post #180 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I hate to battle with you over and over but you need to open your mind to the idea that other people might use a PC differently than you and their level or patience or desired level of performance might be different.

I'd rather not want to wait .2 seconds if I could help it. I must be different than you.

If I have a large collection of movies and I open my front end- I want all the album art and covers to be populated. I want that instantly. As fast as possible. I don't want to wait a second or two... I do not even to wait a split second.

It's not acceptable to me.

It's obviously acceptable to you.

Personality differences.


There is no such thing as PC that is too fast.


Part of me wants to save these threads we battle on these issues and then revisit these in the future when the technology and the "normal" level of PC performance is increased. Imagine if we had this argument 5 years ago, and I gave you a modern SSD based PC today as compared to your 5 year old HDD based PC. You'd notice a difference right ? Well I am pretty sure (guessing) that will happen in the future. In 5 or 10 years our current PC's will feel and perform slow and be antiques. They will be below the normal level of acceptable performance.

At which point- I'd love to bring this thread to your attention and make you suffer with a 5 year old machine. You said it was enough right ? There is no real world difference right ? It's fast enough right ? Good enough right ?

That said,

I think it is important to at least note:

There is a point of diminishing returns that makes all "high end" parts a poor choice for general use. They cost more, and provide ever increasingly smaller performance gains creating a less favorable value proposition. I'm not at all advocating everyone should be using high end parts to build a PC or HTPC. I'm only suggesting you should open your horizon and be more accepting of such as a possibility.

There is nothing wrong with building a high performance HTPC with an i7, a high end video card, a PSU greater than 400 watts, and a 256GB+ high end SSD. Nothing wrong at all.

Perhaps they want to run Jinc /Madvr/re-clock/SVP level 5 etc... and they are matching it to a $50,000 Home Theater where it fits appropriately. I've seen some people spend hundreds of thousands on some really trick theaters on this site AVS. It's long been common place to see people spend ten thousand dollars on a projector or a set of speakers at this site.

For some reason spending a few hundred on nice PC hardware is wrong ??????

Listen to what everyone is telling you in this thread. Your arguing with yourself. No one is saying everyone should or must go high end, but you continue argue against we are. At least for me- I'm just defending the option and personal right to pursue that option. I have a rather modest $500 HTPC with integrated graphics. I use and enjoy it daily. It's more than enough. But I totally see and understand many reasons why someone might want a higher performance HTPC, including a larger faster SSD.

Why are you so against the option ?

that's not at all what I was saying. Forget it. It's just not worth my time.
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