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Small Northeast DIY GTG - Saturday, December 15th - Page 2

post #31 of 92
Thread Starter 
Added a new attendee, NathanJ.


Jim - Are you going to step up or what?? tongue.gif Break away from the wife for a few hours and have some brew with us. biggrin.gif
post #32 of 92
Heres a question

SIngle Malt or Bled

or would people prefer something else like Rum
post #33 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

Heres a question
SIngle Malt or Bled
or would people prefer something else like Rum

Ha!

I'm typically more of a beer guy myself but I have been known to dabble in some whiskey, rum, and vodka from time to time. biggrin.gif
post #34 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Jim - Are you going to step up or what?? tongue.gif Break away from the wife for a few hours and have some brew with us. biggrin.gif

Well, I don't think my ex-wife really cares if I go or not. biggrin.gif My restriction is the time of year; I simply have too much going on this month to take a Saturday off. But the GTG you're planning for March? Now that's a different story...
post #35 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Well, I don't think my ex-wife really cares if I go or not. biggrin.gif My restriction is the time of year; I simply have too much going on this month to take a Saturday off. But the GTG you're planning for March? Now that's a different story...

Hmm, OK maybe you can target a half day at work? biggrin.gif You can't blame me for trying....heh.

I will get a post up soon for the Spring timeframe. Are we doing just loudspeakers next time?
post #36 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I will get a post up soon for the Spring timeframe. Are we doing just loudspeakers next time?

Well, we have to at least test the hosts subwoofers... wink.gif

The subs were fun, so if at all possible I'd like to include them. Can we get enough speakers though? What did you have in mind?
post #37 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Well, we have to at least test the hosts subwoofers... wink.gif
The subs were fun, so if at all possible I'd like to include them. Can we get enough speakers though? What did you have in mind?

I put up a speaker GTG feeler thread right after the last event to see if there was any interest. We could try to do a little of both again, depending on interest I suppose.

You want to plan the next one with me? biggrin.gif
post #38 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

You want to plan the next one with me? biggrin.gif

I'm up for it.
post #39 of 92
Jim, roughly where ar you located in Jersey? I'm in Trenton...
post #40 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile1178 View Post

Jim, roughly where ar you located in Jersey? I'm in Trenton...

I'm in Belvidere, which is probably 90 minutes or so north of you.
post #41 of 92
Thread Starter 
22 hour countdown. biggrin.gif
post #42 of 92
I'm sorry to say that I'll miss you guys this weekend but I'll be down for the next GTG.

-- Bill --
post #43 of 92
Hope all the guys have a blast! Wish I was closer.

Keep cranking,

Post lots of pictures

Robert
post #44 of 92
Gorillas 2x dual opposed setup is no joke. Running off a clone these things are the real deal and put out an amazing amount of bass
post #45 of 92
Indeed, they impressed me a lot. Clean, powerful bass - massive quantities of it. The drivers even look great, better than I expected. First class build.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

Gorillas 2x dual opposed setup is no joke. Running off a clone these things are the real deal and put out an amazing amount of bass
post #46 of 92
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys! I had a BLAST as usual (pun intended) today. I'm glad you guys were able to come check out my creations. Much more info coming later. smile.gif Trying to give the wife some QT before I start talking a date for the next event, LOL.
post #47 of 92
So are Popalock's ultras going to the classifieds?
post #48 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

So are Popalock's ultras going to the classifieds?
wink.gif
post #49 of 92
Can't wait to hear some thoughts on what I am sure was a great day. Glad to hear the thoughts already on the Daytons!
post #50 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

wink.gif
eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif
post #51 of 92
Looking forward to everyone's comments. Andrew did you end up selling your JTR Caps?
post #52 of 92
He did sell them dudw purchased them today
post #53 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

He did sell them dudw purchased them today

I'm glad to hear someone picked them up. I thought that the Caps sounded great at the October GTG so I'm sure that Dudw will certainly enjoy them.
post #54 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

I'm glad to hear someone picked them up. I thought that the Caps sounded great at the October GTG so I'm sure that Dudw will certainly enjoy them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Looking forward to everyone's comments. Andrew did you end up selling your JTR Caps?

As Sibuna stated, the Caps were sold yesterday. We were able to give them one last proper demo for the new buyer though. wink.gif


A very quick summary of yesterday's activities - more to come including listening impressions.

Attendees: Myself, popalock, Sibuna, imagic, NathanJ, and briefly purbeast (buyer of the caps).

Unfortunately popalock had to leave almost immediately upon dropping off the goods due to a family emergency. Props and big thanks to him for coming through with all his equipment (A large SUV full, lol) in a time of stress.

In order, we listened to Imagic's Sump basin ported setup x4, the single LMS5400, and a single dual opposed Dayton 18HO - newly named the 'Silverbacks', LOL. The LMS and daytons were powered by the FP14K clone, single channel. We also listened to the pair of JTR Captivators and my pair of epik empires in a different room.

Popalock also brought over a dual opposed 15" Dayton DVC box with drivers. Unfortunately one of the drivers had smoked voice coils (literally, lol) so we left that out of testing obviously. He also built a dual opposed 18" box (a clone of my boxes) for use in testing with the new 18" SI drivers. Also unfortunate is the fact that he only could get his hands on one of the drivers in time. I still have the single driver here and plan on installing it in a single 18" sealed box shortly. smile.gif Thanks again to popalock for busting out these enclosures - which turned out great btw! We will put them all to use soon.

We also did some last minute listening with the SHO-10s vs. a pair of loudspeakers than Nathan brought over - I'm sure he can share some more details on them.

I did capture some raw and basic EQ'd responses of the three main contenders.
post #55 of 92
My first time hearing a pair of Caps - what a mighty sub, fundamentally industrial strength gear. They have the sonic character of an amphitheater subwoofer - the exact quality of bass you'd find in a premium IMAX theater - and therefor are especially well suited to HT - the massive excursion matched with porting right at the sweet-spot for cinematic boom-boom means you don't just listen to them, you appreciate the wind blasting out of the ports as it evaporates the nervous sweat off your brow. It is a ported sub which limits low-freq extension. If you happen to be watching or listening to the 1% of content that really uses Hz in the teens, the bass is still there but is somewhat diminished. If one were listening for SQ, a somewhat drastic EQ curve could straighten that out and allow the Caps to do double-duty as full-range subs with moderate infrasonic capability, albeit at reduced maximum volume... but with that much capability, anything goes.

The thing is that once the 'Silverbacks' came out, it was easy to forget about the Captivators. Props to Gorilla for building cabinets that look and feel exactly as quality as the Caps. The balance between musicality and theatrical bombast was perfect right off the bat, handling the same movie scenes as the JTRs did - effortlessly. Switching to music revealed a subwoofer with greater dynamic finesse that I have heard from an 18" system. Having two drivers - dual-opposed - mitigated the box shaking that plagues these 18" mega drivers. Especially impressive is the linearity of the sub in a real-world system. Bass lines jumped from note to note with an absolute consistency in volume. If there's anything to complain about, it is that subwoofer's capacity to knock things off shelves, screw up the projectors alignment, and make seeing thing more difficult because your eyeballs are bouncing to the beat... all while playing so cleanly that people in the room can still hear each other speak... the physical effects (tingling face) and the microphone readings reveal the fact of what's really going on - mega bass.

I'm going to say what I have to say... I had a mixed reaction to the LMS-U. While clearly the best crafted driver, and when operating the most impressive driver to watch, something about the configuration didn't allow it to all-out slam the way the Silverback did. Whatever factors led to this, the LMS was almost subdued. The bass was there - it could be measured and it surely could be felt, especially in the amount of 'buzz' my body felt after a bass session... and watching the LMS driver perform maximum excursion can be a fair bit more fun than watching what's on screen. It did not manage to outclass either the Captivators or the Silverback. It would be a dream to see a dual-opposed LMS sub go up against the Dayton's in the same configuration but I understand it would also be a real pain to execute. Still, a critical listening exercise to see which one aces the most material? Just sayin'.

As an aside, I'm proud of the Sump Basins. Obviously not even the same concept much less in the same league as the supersubs... but they managed to sound good in Gorilla's HT. Proof of the effectiveness of the Geddes technique and the value of a properly sized, ported, airtight, resonance-free enclosure. The Sony XPLOD 12" - 2012 model (dimpled cone) performed far beyond it's reputation as 'junk' and 'entry level'. They are a cheap, good sounding subwoofer that's available across the country 24 hours a day (i.e. sold at Wal-Mart).

I had an absolutely great time and my knowledge has expanded by having first-hand exposure to a lot of gear I have read about but have never seen/heard before. Thanks Gorilla.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

I'm glad to hear someone picked them up. I thought that the Caps sounded great at the October GTG so I'm sure that Dudw will certainly enjoy them.

Edited by imagic - 12/16/12 at 3:30pm
post #56 of 92
The Silverback....I love it!! Glad to hear you guys had a great day. Even more excited to get my enclosures built and the arrival of the CV5k tomorrow. Hope all is well with Popalock
post #57 of 92
Thread Starter 
Mark - Thanks for posting your thoughts! Looking forward to hearing from Nathan and Adam too.

Here are a few of my own:

A few notes - This was a very informal GTG for us to just hang out and listen to a few clips on all the setups. We used my Denon 4311ci receiver, minidsp for eq, SHO-10s up front, and my PS3 / Mark's laptop for media content. My room has some basic treatments including front and rear bass traps, and side wall reflection panels. A variety of amps were used throughout the day including Mark's Crown XTI2002, my EP4000, and my LG Clone FP14000. We listened to a few popular clips from the Art of Flight Blu ray, the Scuba Steve disc (Hulk, HTTYD, WOTW, BHD Irene) as well as a few Blu Ray concert clips I'm familiar with. We also played around a bit with the 10hz to 100hz sine waves at moderate levels. In addition, Mark played a number of his own creations and even broke out the synthesizer at one point, which was pretty neat. It was amazing how quickly the day went with just a few simple setups and really no formalized process.

A few measurements - these were all matched to the same level at 20hz - with the sump basin setup in the mix this was really the only logical point. I'm aware this isn't ideal, but it was what we had to work with.

Before EQ:


After EQ - keep in mind none of us spent an extraordinary amount of time with the eq process, we did our best with just a few simple filters.


Mark's 4 X ported Sump basin setup powered by a Crown XTI2002 - Wow, you guys have got to see the pictures when Adam gets them up. A+ for creativity for sure - we all agreed they look like they belong in a sci-fi film. We hooked these up for fun - and a lot of it we had. We listened to a majority of Mark's created music with these (house/electronic/dubstep - please correct me if I'm mislabeling!. I was impressed they had some decent impact in my room which tends to really suck up the bass! The presence of these 4 beasts in the front of my room had a dominating effect. smile.gif Check out the output at 20hz and below with these guys. The overall curve was a bit crazy, likely due to Mark's port tune. Mark experimented with various points of EQ using my minidsp to try to smooth the curve out a bit as you can see before/after EQ. Mark can probably add some additional details to the build.

LMS x 1 in the 'wooly mammoth' enclosure - Austin was kind enough to lend us his LMS for the day. I believe he stated the enclosure is right around 4.2 cu feet, sealed, and I believe had minimal to no bracing. We used my FP14K clone to power it in 4 ohm stereo (one channel) which is rated at 4400 watts. As you can see the single driver has no trouble extended deep down to 6hz in my room. The first thought that jumped out at me was how insanely quiet the driver movement is. There is no noise related to driver excursion, yet we would feel the couch shaking, etc. There was a significant difference (decrease) in slam/punch from what I remembered the last time we demoed the pair back in October. I would think a well braced box and a sicko behind the remote would have made a drastic difference though. Note: Since this was not our sub, we stayed relatively conservative when listening to the various clips, but still managed to get some crazy excursion going. I'm sure Austin in person would have pushed it a bit further. smile.gif

Dayton 'Silverback' Dual opposed setup - These were also powered with one channel of my clone amp, although at 8 ohm stereo at a rated 2450 watts. The box is right around 7 cubic feet net. This is my own sub, so obviously my comments don't carry a whole lot of weight. I did think they performed decently for the money spent and the clone does a heck of a job powering them as well. I was happy with the way they held up since I was pushing them pretty hard. smile.gif

BTW the Captivators were demoed to the group using my EP4000. The buyer who was coming to demo owns this amp and wanted to hear how it would sound in his same scenario. I kept a 19hz HPF applied, but it likely wasn't necessary with ~1000w per driver. They were run without port plug in 20hz tune.
At one point we experimented with amplifiers.

Other random testing:

At one point we subbed out the EP4000 with Mark's XTI2002 and played back to back music clips to see if we could tell any difference between the two amps. I thought they sounded very similar and I believe Mark stated he felt the same.

While we were eating lunch, I figured we could check out the Epik Empire pair. Mark hooked up his laptop and provided some punishing content and we blasted away. It was obvious some of the super low stuff was a bit attenuated compared to the higher end sealed setups we had run downstairs.

Big thanks to all who came over yesterday, I had a blast as usual. Can't wait until the next event. Shooting for mid-late March timeframe?
Edited by Gorilla83 - 12/16/12 at 3:21pm
post #58 of 92
I'm glad i didn't attempt to drive home yesterday. I barley made it today.. ugh i drank way to much last night

Anyway my main reason for driving down was to hear the daytons (as well as hang out) as i plan on building 2 of them early next year. My builds will be single drivers per cab but close enough to get the idea from gorillas setup. I didn't take as many pictures this time as we had less going on and it was much less formal. they will appear below.

1st off Mark wins awards for the most unique sub build i have ever seen, Basically a variation on a sonotube but much more industrial looking. I believe it was Nathan who said they looked like something out of a scifi movie. These were large and we had 4 of them. Each one is ~5.5 feet tall counting the ports and 2.5 feet in diameter at the widest. I had no idea what to expect from them but was quite impressed with what they were able to do. they did not play as low as the subs later in the day however they delivered a lot of smooth accurate bass, it didn't hit you in the face as much as others can but it made its presence known in a good way. We didn't to a ton of eqing with these but it was easy to imagin how they would sound when optimized for whatever room they were in. Very impressive for some inexpensive drivers in a truly unique enclosure.

the LMS was interesting, we didn't push it nearly as hard as Austin pushed them last time. but it was still fun to watch. the output was there and it definitely had the most movement of any sub on the day. similar to last time it just delivers effortless bass. The woolly mammoth enclosure isn't braced as well as it could be (not at all IIRC) and dances a bit on its own. so some output is lost but it still does not fail to impress. TBH i was expecting 1 to have more outpout that it did however i think the fact that we were being conservative with the power and the order in which i heard things played into the.

the Daytons are impressive, we listened to 1 of the dual opp boxes alone as well as both of them together. As a single dual opp these guys are amazing, Running off the Clone @ ~1200w per driver they took everything that was tossed at them and didn't seem to care. WOTW, Hulk, BHD all well over reference without a singld bad sound, tight and accurate. the kick drums on the Stevie Wonder track felt like you were there in the front row. TIm not sure what aspect about them causes it buy they cause Andrews room to shake like nothing else. The boxes are almost dead inert when playing, extremely minimal box vibration as to be expected in a dual op setup. The duratex finish looks very good. Most impressive sub on the day. Especially when considering the low cost of building one. We tossed some test tones at it as well from 10Hz up and at all of them it had no issues and sounded pleasing. The cost and conservative xmax numbers for these drivers should not deter anyone from doing a build around them

The JTRs running off the EP4K sounded great as expected. Obviously less output vs last time when they were getting more power from the CV5K. Played back everything that was demoed with ease. We dialed back the mains a bit so that things equaled out as we were clipping the EP4k on some scenes. we were running them without any EQ and they still sounded great. Dudw (which is Purebeast) will be very happy with them

Before we hooked up Marks subs we did listen to both of Andrews together and this somewhat spoiled us. the only real reaction to how much outpout 4 of them have is HOLY ****! bass on top of bass. everything in the room was moving. more so then i remember from October. The opening scene in Art of flight (deadmau5 - Ghosts & Stuff - Nero remix) was phenomenally impressive at +ref. no bad sounds at all on the deepest notes. somewhat insane to think that hes gonna build 2 more for a total of 8 drivers.

We listened to the dual empires at lunch just because we were upstairs. Ive always liked the emps, they had no issues playing loud with Marks tracks. actuate punchy bass in a very large space. IMO 2 of them for what they are sold for has always been a deal hard to beat.


Andrew its a good thing you placed your order this morning, you might have got the last 4 as it says this now "Out of stock Due 1/8/2013" biggrin.gif
I told you they were running low
post #59 of 92
How it all started - there are 12 subs in that 2nd picture and 4 more off camera






Marks Sumpbasin




in room




Daytons 18s
















JTRs


LMS


SI 18


Edited by Sibuna - 12/16/12 at 5:55pm
post #60 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

I'm glad i didn't attempt to drive home yesterday. I barley made it today.. ugh i drank way to much last night

You "barley" made it? Bet that joke has been brewing for a while, eh?
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