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The Stonewater Cinema Build Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 897
Glad to hear that you don't need surgery TMcG. Have a good weekend!
post #242 of 897
I missed this, but really sorry to hear about your injury.
post #243 of 897
Too funny. I was speaking of my ramblings actually, not yours as you have a knack for taking the conversation/discussion to the next level. Me....not so much! tongue.gif

Nice score on the buttkickers et al. I seemingly can never find Craigslist deals like that EVER!

Good to hear that you will need only physical therapy that has to be a huge relief.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #244 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Too funny. I was speaking of my ramblings actually

I assumed you were referring to me. I am becoming an expert on what not to do. Don't be a fool like me is my message. Intent is to help others.

Tim, I assume you saw this theater from the local yokel hi-fi shop?

budgetdeco.jpg
post #245 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Glad to hear that you don't need surgery TMcG. Have a good weekend!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

I missed this, but really sorry to hear about your injury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Good to hear that you will need only physical therapy that has to be a huge relief.

Thanks guys. It was a big relief knowing that I would regain almost 100% of my mobility without surgery. I tore my "Planter's Fascia" completely and another tendon partially, but not bad. The main "ripping" I heard was the Planter's fascia. There is no surgical repair for this because apparently it is not needed to regain almost full function. The other will just take some time to heal. It's nice to have confirmation of the path forward for now and that I won't be completely sidelined because of this.
post #246 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

I assume you saw this theater from the local yokel hi-fi shop?

budgetdeco.jpg

I've never seen that place or photo before in my life. Where is this? Is it their showroom or a customer's theater they did? I'd be interested to know. Do you have a link?

Honestly, I have not actually been in a HiFi shop for years. I wouldn't want to waste any of their time with knowing full-well that I wouldn't be buying any of their products or needing any of their advice or services. So nearly 100% of my planning, design, shopping is being done online. I don't think I could do it without access to equipment purchasing options that are found online, especially since most of what I am buying is used to stay on track with my razor-thin budget. Most of the help I needed was found online (i.e. Dennis) with the acoustic analysis / treatments for the inside of the room because I don't have the appropriate software / tools / experience.

Any more progress on your house? When's your move-in date?

EDIT:
I found where you got that picture - Audio Advice's gallery section of their website. So I called Audio Advice just for the heck of it....they said the room design and millwork was done by a company called Cinematech and just the room itself was $2900 to design which was then applied to the fabrication / installation costs of $38,000. This included the millwork, the acoustic panels, the fabric, the lights and the carpet. They said the electronics they used were another $70,000 and the seating was another $9000. All totaled everything for that theater was just under $125,000. I personally don't see where the money went, but hey, what do I know.
Edited by TMcG - 1/12/13 at 10:07am
post #247 of 897
Just want to say I'm subscribed now and eagerly following your progress. I really admire you hardcore DIY guys in both your knowledge and ability. It took me a couple days just to paint and mount 80 feet of Wiremold and run the cables.

Hope you're on the mend and I can't wait to see the outcome. The art deco theme is really stunning and unique!
post #248 of 897
Tim, just stopped in to reply but see you have way more info than I had. I was checking with Audio Advice to see what it would cost to build my theater. I was looking through their portfolio and saw the Deco theme and thought of you. I didn't have any details for you other than the link to the gallery which you found.

Thanks for posting the price info. Whenever I read something, I always wonder 'what did that cost'? It irritates me when people won't give prices... wastes my time and theirs if it turns out I can't afford it.

I agree, $125k seems like a lot for that room, but it's a bargain based on 2 other pro quotes I have for my room. A few people here have posted their itemized budgets. Spaceman did his whole room $27,000 including electronics. Bacon Race was $36,000. I would be happy with either. I am starting to see why so many people DIY.

House is coming along slowly. I'm thinking maybe March. Part of the slow down is us. We've added a lot of extras since contract. I'm not sure if the builder likes the extra money or hates all the changes. He's been real easy to work with, though, so no complaints.
post #249 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raskyred View Post

Just want to say I'm subscribed now and eagerly following your progress. I really admire you hardcore DIY guys in both your knowledge and ability. It took me a couple days just to paint and mount 80 feet of Wiremold and run the cables.

Hope you're on the mend and I can't wait to see the outcome. The art deco theme is really stunning and unique!

Thanks raskyred! Don't be discouraged - given enough time and effort invested in educating yourself, you too can pull off a very respectable theater. Now there are things that only come through years of direct experience, but at least there is professional help available to help you avoid money-wasting pitfalls while simultaneously eeking every last drop of performance from your system.

Yeah, I don't know why I've always been drawn to that Art Deco look, but I figured I would give it my best effort in the planning process to try to live with as little regret as possible when the theater is complete. Over this past weekend I completed a full-scale mock-up of the column "alabaster" panels with the backlit RGB LED lighting. It looks really cool. I know, I know....no proof of progress without pictures. I did take a bunch of pictures throughout the process, but have been overloaded at work to get to this thread in a meaningful way. More to come on that later, possibly tonight.


On another note, late yesterday afternoon I was officially "cleared" to resume normal activity by the physical therapists. I intend to take full advantage of that this weekend and have already reached out to my cavalry of friends for some help this weekend getting drywall strips up underneath the subfloor between the joists. REAL CONSTRUCTION PROGRESS pics are coming!!!
post #250 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

Tim, just stopped in to reply but see you have way more info than I had. I was checking with Audio Advice to see what it would cost to build my theater. I was looking through their portfolio and saw the Deco theme and thought of you. I didn't have any details for you other than the link to the gallery which you found.

Thanks for posting the price info. Whenever I read something, I always wonder 'what did that cost'? It irritates me when people won't give prices... wastes my time and theirs if it turns out I can't afford it.

I agree, $125k seems like a lot for that room, but it's a bargain based on 2 other pro quotes I have for my room. A few people here have posted their itemized budgets. Spaceman did his whole room $27,000 including electronics. Bacon Race was $36,000. I would be happy with either. I am starting to see why so many people DIY.

House is coming along slowly. I'm thinking maybe March. Part of the slow down is us. We've added a lot of extras since contract. I'm not sure if the builder likes the extra money or hates all the changes. He's been real easy to work with, though, so no complaints.

Thanks for thinking of me and taking the time to post that picture. You never know when you see even a small detail for any kind of design inspiration. $125k does seem like a lot for the room but I guess if you break it down into its component parts and know that there are professionals involved at every stage of the process I guess that seems about right.....and explains why many (almost all?) of us here on the Forum take the DIY route. We want the $175,000 room....on the $15-$25k budget.

I am keeping a detailed list of expenses for this room right down to the last drywall screw because I am already beyond the bleeding edge with this room, despite the deals. Don't get me wrong, I'd do it all over again but the financial bloodbath is still far from over. With our new family addition on his way, staying on track is even more important. Maybe I'll post the itemized expenses once the room is complete. I had an idea I wanted to come in around $20k all-in, but that was unrealistic for the caliber and quality of theater I want to put together. We'll see where I end up when everything is said and done.

Good luck on your house and theater - would love to see it in-person someday.
post #251 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

... with light colored walls and ceiling. Ha, ha, ha!

Sometimes the professionals have their hands tied when they employ a designer for these rooms. You can only point out performance issues with certain design choices and there is a limit to how much you can engineer around these design decisions. As long as the client is made aware of these potential issues at the beginning, the customer is always right. So who knows if they intentionally went for a light room with a light colored ceiling and have 100% of the lights in that room surface-mounted or were forced by design decisions. But I agree with your comment - you wouldn't catch me compromising the performance of the room (within reason) for the sake of the design.
post #252 of 897
Here is a great disclaimer about this very situation ... this from IMAX Corporation:

"In an effort not to interfere with the creative work of architects or designers retained by our clients for their project, IMAX's only involvement in the design and the build-out of the space for the theatre will be to ensure that design choices comply with IMAX's technical specifications."

This really should be the role between your technical designer and architect/interior designer/spouse in really any room like that. Clearly if you're not doing an IMAX or THX Screening Room, you have more flexibility with your choices ... the challenge is to get a clear understanding of the trade offs between "the art" and room performance. At the same time, it really isn't fair to demand perfection from the technical design team while also demanding, for example, light colored walls/fabrics.
post #253 of 897
Speaking of costs. I have a very rough idea of what my total basement build out cost. I started out keeping track of all the $$$$ I spent, until it started getting scary (for me and Mrs. RTROSE) and kind of starting being the focus and taking some of the joy out of the process. Just my take on the cost tracking though. I know some spend 2k and some 200k and I dare day that each one of us (especially here on the forum) can appreciate the "other guys" theater, but still enjoy theirs for the joy it brings them. I also say that while I have a very modest theater myself, I get just as much enjoyment (not performance obviously) as someone who spent 3,4, or 10 times what I did. That is what makes this hobby and forum so great. I get a kick out of those guys who make the most of a limited budget and have a killer theater, as much as I do those guys who have an insanely high budget and put together a killer theater with what they have to work with. Having DIY'd mine I have a greater appreciation for others and what they do.

I guess I said all of that to say be careful keeping track of the bleeding from the wallet it can be and is very scary at times and don't let it suck the joy out of the project.

Glad to hear you have the "all clear" and the go ahead to get back at it. Looking forward to seeing those progress pics.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #254 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Speaking of costs. I have a very rough idea of what my total basement build out cost. I started out keeping track of all the $$$$ I spent, until it started getting scary (for me and Mrs. RTROSE) and kind of starting being the focus and taking some of the joy out of the process. Just my take on the cost tracking though. I know some spend 2k and some 200k and I dare day that each one of us (especially here on the forum) can appreciate the "other guys" theater, but still enjoy theirs for the joy it brings them. I also say that while I have a very modest theater myself, I get just as much enjoyment (not performance obviously) as someone who spent 3,4, or 10 times what I did. That is what makes this hobby and forum so great. I get a kick out of those guys who make the most of a limited budget and have a killer theater, as much as I do those guys who have an insanely high budget and put together a killer theater with what they have to work with. Having DIY'd mine I have a greater appreciation for others and what they do.

I guess I said all of that to say be careful keeping track of the bleeding from the wallet it can be and is very scary at times and don't let it suck the joy out of the project.

Glad to hear you have the "all clear" and the go ahead to get back at it. Looking forward to seeing those progress pics.

Regards,

RTROSE

Thanks RT! I have confirmations from one friend to help me tomorrow from 1PM onwards, another friend coming over on Saturday and then the same Friday friend coming back on Sunday for most of the day. With any luck there will be some tremendous progress to report by Sunday night / Monday as part of a weekend update. From there I will work in the evenings when I can to catch up on the three+ weeks of lost time with this stupid tendon tear.

The reason I have to watch the budget like a hawk is I want to reach the end of the project and have a functional theater that can be professionally calibrated. I had some budget flexibility which is now completely gone. Part of the lost flexibility was the find on the Stewart Cine-V and the opportunity to purchase the advanced Color Kinetics lighting system at used / clearance pricing. But the biggest overage to the budget at this point is when I made the decision to purchase the set of Procella speakers. Don't get me wrong, I would do it all over again but that one decision commands an entire subset of mandatory purchases such as more channels of high-quality amplification to drive the bass modules of the LCR and an independent external crossover to handle the crossover duties between the bass module and the P6 head for each LCR. But there are also other costs to make the most from this phenomenal speaker system which I consider mandatory such as professional calibration, acoustic treatments and a much better sounding preamp to not restrict the sound quality of the speakers. If you haven't seen already, I am a big believer in having a balanced system so I refuse to pair up these speakers with an inferior amp, preamp, wire or DSP...just like I wouldn't pair a Levinsion preamp processor with a pair of Polk or Bose speakers.

I didn't expect to go on a tangent about the budget, but aside from source components it would be an expensive and unwanted proposition to try and change out anything like the speakers, preamp, DSP and acoustic treatments which would force another professional recalibration. So I really have to get things "as right as I can" straight from the start. The number and quality of components I have yet to buy is a bit daunting to say the least. So I guess the better way to say it is that I am deep in the hole with this project and know what needs to be done to get to the finish....my objective is to get to the finish line with a fully-finished theater and not have a beautiful room devoid of projector, acoustic treatments carpet and seating. I may have bitten off more than I can chew, but I will keep working at it. I guess the final tally will be out of my own curiosity.
post #255 of 897
Budget concerns understood and I know all too well that in some cases one purchase then dictates MANY others. Like buying a Lambo, and then putting a governor on it so the top speed is only 70mph. Doesn't make a lick of sense not to tap into all the performance available. In my build I wanted to get the best equipment for my budget as I knew I would only get one shot at the theater build before life directed funds in other directions. I actually upped my equipment budget to include my speakers so that I wouldn't look back and say "Boy I sure wish I had gotten those instead of settling for these". My other equipment is fairly "mainstream" but for me it fit my budget/bang for buck sweet spot.

I'm holding you to the progress pics. You have till Monday to produce them. Otherwise be prepared for endless hounding! smile.gif

Regards,

RTROSE
post #256 of 897
I'm $400k over budget on the house, so forced to eat some humble pie on the the theater. People will say "if you can afford X then you can afford Y". Usually it's more like can't afford Y because just blew the budget on X. I was able to justify the overages on the house because I figure it will be permanent. I used "last speakers I'll ever need" line on the wife to get the speakers I have now (and believed it when I said it - how often does speaker technology really change?). But Dennis and crew say normal home hi-fi speakers aren't good for HT because the tweeters won't hold up. They wanted to sell me Procella speakers too, but it gets expensive when buying for 7+ speakers and multiple subs. I am also considering Danley SH50 and Genelec. Haven't made a decision yet. I would be interested to hear what you think of Procella after you get them setup. They should be "the last speakers you'll ever need" at least for your theater...

HT theme is another area I thought I could save some money. How much % extra do you think the Art Deco theme is going to add? I originally told Dennis I wanted an industrial theme, in part to save money. But themes aren't part of the package. As Dennis explained above, you get what you get and that is presumably designed for performance. Then it's up to the individual to dress the room with whatever sort of theme, color scheme, and finishing they want. I was thinking a Pulp Fiction "bring out the gimp" entrance theme would be both inexpensive and memorable. Especially with people coming to see the HT for the first time. How was the drive? Would you like something to drink? Follow me down to the basement... ruh-roh.
Edited by rabident - 1/26/13 at 7:50am
post #257 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

I'm $400k over budget on the house,

HT theme is another area I thought I could save some money. How much % extra do you think the Art Deco theme is going to add? I originally told Dennis I wanted an industrial theme, in part to save money. But themes aren't part of the package. As Dennis explained above, you get what you get and that is presumably designed for performance. Then it's up to the individual to dress the room with whatever sort of theme, color scheme, and finishing they want. I was thinking a Pulp Fiction "bring out the gimp" entrance theme would be both inexpensive and memorable. Especially with people coming to see the HT for the first time. How was the drive? Would you like something to drink? Follow me down to the basement... ruh-roh.

eek.gif Um......yeah........Totally understand the sacrifices/compromises in other areas. Not sure what the home prices are in NC but just your over budget amount would buy a HUGE, GINORMAS home here in beautiful South Central Indiana.

Husbands and wives I think while we are all different, have more similarities than differences. I also used the "These are the last speakers I'll ever need" line to get my Ascend Sierra Towers. The line worked as I was able to up my speaker budget considerably. I made compromises with the PJ and receiver as I bought more economical products there as I figured they would be superseded far faster than the speakers.

I absolutely LOVE the Pulp Fiction theme to the entrance. If you could decorate the few feet prior to the entrance with shelves like the pawn shop for that little something extra that would be very cool. Now how to design a luggage trunk that vibrates and moves slightly. Hmmmmm...........oh the possibilities.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #258 of 897
Genelec makes excellent speakers. We've used them. Danley labs is just up the road...good stuff as well; but, I prefer the Genelec's over the Danleys.
post #259 of 897
Tweeters wouldn't cope with theater duty? You've got more speakers sharing the load in a cinema, so the demand should be less. Perhaps if they're made for low level listening to jazz or so, but a well designed hifi speaker that's made for playing all sorts of music and loudly... has no problems what so ever with cinema duty. Sounds more like a sales pitch for dedicated theater speakers.
post #260 of 897
I realize at this point you are probably driving DW screws or applying GG, and your arm probably feels like it's going to fall off, but I would like to offer a gentle reminder that:



Hopefully you'll get done with that miserable task of putting DW between the joists today. If you've got some help, it should go pretty quickly. Still no fun, but quicker none the less.
post #261 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I have confirmations from one friend to help me tomorrow from 1PM onwards, another friend coming over on Saturday and then the same Friday friend coming back on Sunday for most of the day. With any luck there will be some tremendous progress to report by Sunday night / Monday as part of a weekend update. From there I will work in the evenings when I can to catch up on the three+ weeks of lost time with this stupid tendon tear.

If you don't get everything done this weekend, I wouldn't mind helping out. I just started PT for my knee, so I wouldn't be useful carrying anything, but I did clips & channel before and spent some time as the GG applicator guy. I've also got some tools and supplies left over from my build.
post #262 of 897
Thread Starter 
PROGRESS UPDATE:

As promised, here is this weekend's progress update. I ended up working from 2PM until early evening on Friday, 9AM until 7PM Saturday and today from 7AM until 4PM. About half of this time I had help, the other half I spent piecing in the small stuff by myself, cutting tons more screws and nails from the subfloor above that missed the joists and scraping off every last drop of Liquid Nails "ooze" from when the subfloor was originally installed and left big blobs running down the sides of the joists everywhere.

First, I plan to call the CIA tomorrow to inform them that hangiing 5/8" drywall between ceiling joists would be a much more successful enhanced interrogation technique than waterboarding. In fact there is probably a law preventing judges from assigning this task to convicted criminals as it would fall under "cruel and unusual punishment". In a word, it - SUCKED ....badly. Compounding the issue was being on ladders for virtually the entire time so my tender right foot is completely shredded as I type this. But I wasn't going to let a little excruciating pain slow me down when I had some help, so I started self-medicating late Saturday morning 354cc (12 ounces) of Miller Lite at a time. Yeah, it was that kind of project.

But enough whining....and on to the complaining!! tongue.gif Only three pairs of joists across the entire span of the room were parallel to one another. Over the course of an 8' span the joists could be out as much as 1 1/4". To make matters worse, some of the joists had a bow to them which meant that I had to either put the drywall up in smaller sections to follow the bow....or become a wood drywall-smith on longer pieces with my jigsaw and drywall sander which involved multiple test fittings per piece until everything fit snugly with a gap of 1/8" or less, but typically things ended up very tight. Since I was using 28 oz. tubes of Green Glue, I didn't know my exact application rate, but it was somewhere in the realm of 2-3 tubes per 4x8 sheet. Maybe it was a bit on the heavy side, but I'd rather have too much than too little for this important soundproofing step. The real time-waster came with having to recreate square again and again for accurate translation of plot points onto the next piece of drywall before cutting. I ended up being fairly proficient at this, but it still wasted time needlessly and created a bit more scrap than I was expecting.

So through monumental effort I was able to complete the first full layer 100% and start the second layer about 3:30PM today...which is when I discovered that I only had a handful of 2" screws to secure the second layer through the first and to the subfloor above. I couldn't find the additional box of 2" screws I thought I had, so my day was done....right after I went to Lowe's and picked up 10 pounds to make sure I had enough to do the second layer.

Needless to say, but I am not looking forward to the same painstaking process for the second layer. Also for the second layer I plan to overlap all the seams of the first layer and seal all of the edges with acoustic caulking FWIW. I plan to chip away at the second layer every evening this week so by the time Saturday rolls around I would have 15 - 20 hours of progress under my belt and can hopefully finish by the end of next weekend. Had all of the joists been parallel I am sure this posting would have read much differently and this part of the job would be complete. I might even take one day off from work since I never seem to get all of my vacation time in by the end of the year anyhow. At least it would be a very valid excuse to take off and get the work done.

Now on to what you have all been waiting for - the progress pics.....

The ceremonial first board installed:


What happens to Green Glue application patterns when the friend you have helping you is an engineer:


End of progress on Friday, three full joist bays and a ton of other prep work complete:


Progress as of Saturday morning. You can see some very slight gaps where the joists are bowed. This set of joists pictured were the worst offenders in terms of not being parallel to one another.


First layer complete!


Completed first layer pic 2:


Completed first layer pic 3:


First piece of second layer (you can see the white edge of the second layer):


First piece of second layer caulked at edges. Once I confirmed the fit of the second layer, I caulked the edges of the first layer, applied Green Glue to the back of the second layer, installed the second layer and then immediately caulked the second layer. I figured this way all of the caulking in the side gaps would cure at the same time. Took about 1/2 a tube just for this one piece which means I am looking at about 15 of the 28oz tubes to do the whole ceiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

I'm holding you to the progress pics. You have till Monday to produce them. Otherwise be prepared for endless hounding! smile.gif
Hounding averted!

Comments, gift certificates to Massage Envy and bottles of Johnny Walker Black Label welcomed!! biggrin.gif
Edited by TMcG - 1/27/13 at 3:55pm
post #263 of 897
Ummm, I think you may need Blue Label before too long!
post #264 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

They wanted to sell me Procella speakers too, but it gets expensive when buying for 7+ speakers and multiple subs. I am also considering Danley SH50 and Genelec. Haven't made a decision yet. I would be interested to hear what you think of Procella after you get them setup. They should be "the last speakers you'll ever need" at least for your theater...

Funny you should mention this. I have been a bit negligent in my thread posting duties but I had my first opportunity to hear a full Procella system in action. The company I work for has their global headquarters in Dallas, Texas and I was down there for a week of meetings. I knew I was going to have one evening open, so I reached out to Kblaw2010 who has an Erskine-designed theater with a full-on Procella system, including two massive P18 subwoofers (total of four drivers). His thread can be found HERE. I drove out to his house after work, expecting to hear the system over the course of an hour or so and then I would be on my way. Well, we ended up "nerding out" (as my wife calls it) on different demo material for the better part of four hours with all kinds of different source material, including music. Here are the conclusions I drew after hearing his system:
  • Dennis designed an amazing room which was executed extremely well by kblaw2010's DIY efforts
  • Adam Pelz is a master at room calibration
  • Gerben Van Duyl and Anders Uggelberg of Procella Audio designed an amazing speaker system that beats any system I have ever heard.
  • Phenomenal is not a strong enough word to describe the experience

Every demo piece offered detail and enveloping sound I had never heard before, even if the section was very familiar to me. But out of all the demo material, three demos in particular really stood out. First was the beginning of Polar Express. I have never seen this movie so I did not know what to expect. The beginning scene has some very quiet, very detailed passages with well-placed and localized sound effects....and then.....the train starts to roll in..... I have never - NEVER - heard bass that powerful, clean and well-defined. Talk about pressurizing a room! The seats actual felt like they had Buttkickers, but they didn't - ALL of the power, vibration and chest-pounding thunder of this train came exclusively through the two Procella P18 subs. What an incredible experience. I am still blown away two weeks later. Unfortunately, Procella's subs are the one part of the system I just couldn't afford, but that was one unbelievable justification to want to own these subs at any cost. The rest of the system was incredible as well - the bell for the train coming into the station was as clear as...well....a bell, despite the Earthshaking thunder.

One other movie demo that clearly stood out was the pod racing theme from Star Wars I. Despite being a Star Wars fan, I have only tortured myself with this movie a couple of times. I remember seeing this movie in the theater and finding the pod racing scene tedious and boring at best. But what an incredible demo on this Procella speaker system and the talents of Adam to extract maximum performance from the QSC DSPs. You could distinctly hear the different sound of each pod "engine", the difference between racing through the canyon and in open air and most notably, the imaging as different pods were coming up from behind, being passed and moving from left to right. This brings me to my second point - I have never heard an audio system image so well. It truly puts you right in the middle of the action and it made the entire scene really enjoyable.

The other notable demo was music. Not that the theater acoustic environment is even remotely appropriate for high-quality 3-dimensional music, but for the few songs Kblaw2010 played, I was very impressed and pleased with how nice the system sounded. The reason for this is I can see myself sitting in my future theater listening to music while I work on my laptop in the evenings and I had some concern that listening to music on the system would be intolerable. But again, the soundstage was extremely good and gave a very nice jazz club atmosphere when using all 9 channels.

All-in-all it was a great evening and it was nice to meet another enthusiast who is also one heck of a nice guy and who has a beautiful family. I won't be in Dallas that often, but I definitely look forward to getting together again.

So take this informal review of the Procella speakers FWIW. Given your size room you would definitely be into the P815s for the front P8s for the sides/surrounds and two P18 subwoofers. You could potentially "downgrade" (if you can call it that) to P6s for the sides / surrounds to save a bit of cash. It is my understanding from talking with different people in the industry that the Procellas give you the performance of Genelec at half the price. Still expensive, yes, but also a great value on an extraordinary system. I am glad to have committed to the speakers when I did and look forward to getting my system set up. Depending on when your theater project picks up again, I might have my system running by that point so you could drop by for a demo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

HT theme is another area I thought I could save some money. How much % extra do you think the Art Deco theme is going to add?

That's tough to say, but definitely a bit of a premium. I am getting most of my "look" from period-correct moldings, so the cost is really no different than other molding profiles. The decorative metal inserts are unique and an added cost. And the deco doorknob (shown in previous post in this thread) is $400 vs. a standard one that would be about $75. So there is a bit of an uptick in cost, but nothing unmanageable. I'd say the big savings between what I am doing and a modern take is that you probably would not have very much wood or finish carpentry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

If you don't get everything done this weekend, I wouldn't mind helping out. I just started PT for my knee, so I wouldn't be useful carrying anything, but I did clips & channel before and spent some time as the GG applicator guy. I've also got some tools and supplies left over from my build.

I really appreciate that, but trust me - you don't want this kind of job to help with, especially in your condition right now. The ladders and lifting onto ladders will kill you. I don't plan to use clips for the walls since my theater is already completely decoupled as-is, but I will be decoupling the ceiling with Kinetics Noise Control WAVE hangers as a soundproofing technique. Once I get over this ceiling drywall hurdle you should see things move rapidly as I mainline caffeine and stress to keep things moving at an aggressive pace. I probably won't be done by baby time, but I would like to be well into the finish carpentry stage at that point. We'll see how I hold out because I am also diligently working on finishing the basement at the same time. I haven't included many pictures of that progress, but I probably should. You are always more than welcome to visit and help out, but I think most of the heavy lifting will be done in the next couple of weeks....at least that's how I have it planned in my head. wink.gif
Edited by TMcG - 1/27/13 at 6:18pm
post #265 of 897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs691919 View Post

Ummm, I think you may need Blue Label before too long!

Well, I didn't want to get greedy....rolleyes.gif
post #266 of 897
Good review of the procella's Tim. It will be interesting to get your impression of the IB compared to the P18's when you get up and running.
post #267 of 897
Wow! Progress and a review! I'd say that was one heck of a productive weekend! Glad I do not have to hound you on the progress pics. My week will be much better now that I don't have to do up to the second checks of the thread to see if you have posted pics. Now I might be able to have a productive work week vs. constant internet surfing.

The Procella's sound like one awesome system. I have only had one experience with an IB setup, KNKKNK's theater and I can tell you the IB system he had really was an experience. The IB set up so impressed me that if there is anyway possible I can do IB in my next theater I will do so.

Taking a day of work sounds pretty good to me. I wish I was closer to you, I would definitely help, especially if there are adult beverages offered in payment. wink.gif

Regards,

RTROSE
Edited by RTROSE - 1/27/13 at 6:22pm
post #268 of 897
I haven't made it to the sand in the stage point yet, but as it stands, I think the DW on the subfloor may be a better right of passage. Well, better may not be the correct word there smile.gif

EDIT: I meant to mention. I used 4' sections rather than 8' when I did it. It made it a little easier to deal with the joists being out of square.
post #269 of 897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Wow! Progress and a review! I'd say that was one heck of a productive weekend! Glad I do not have to hound you on the progress pics. My week will be much better now that I don't have to do up to the second checks of the thread to see if you have posted pics. Now I might be able to have a productive work week vs. constant internet surfing.

That was my sole point of focus in posting tonight was to make sure I didn't distract you from a productive work week! LOL! I appreciate you keeping me honest and on the straight and narrow path.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

The Procella's sound like one awesome system. I have only had one experience with an IB setup, KNKKNK's theater and I can tell you the IB system he had really was an experience. The IB set up so impressed me that if there is anyway possible I can do IB in my next theater I will do so.

Everyone that has or has heard about an IB system has walked away very impressed. And KNKKNK's system was one of a handful that really pushed me in that direction (Moggie's and StockMonkey's are the other ones). They seem like a tremendous amount of bass "bang for the buck". However...and I don't mean to drop a bomb on you and everyone else following this thread....but I have a second non-IB option in my hip pocket that I am definitely going to take a look at before constructing the IB chamber. I made the mistake of somehow stumbling on notnyk's thread which has some incredibly serious firepower with four massive DIY subs using a high-end subwoofer driver, the LMS Ultra 5400 from a company called TC Sounds. The motor alone is 68 pounds and are extremely linear. Notnyt also posted a cut sheet for building the cabinets so I might go this route instead of the IB chamber. But like I said, as of now the plan is IB with Fi Car Audio IB318 but I am still exploring options until I pull the trigger on the purchase here at the end of the month. I'll keep you posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Taking a day of work sounds pretty good to me. I wish I was closer to you, I would definitely help, especially if there are adult beverages offered in payment. wink.gif

Regards,

RTROSE

Thanks for the offer of help. There's not anything but pain and misery right now, so just be thankful you are far away. You know what they say about misery loving company.....

I'll keep posting progress updates throughout the week as they come. Mainly it will just be not-so-exciting shots of drywall in between joists....but I know how you love pictures and I want you to continue to have a productive week. I could post pictures I took of my full-scale column alabaster panel mock-up.....how's that for a teaser? tongue.gif Oh darn, did I just make your productivity go to zero?
Edited by TMcG - 1/28/13 at 6:26am
post #270 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

EDIT: I meant to mention. I used 4' sections rather than 8' when I did it. It made it a little easier to deal with the joists being out of square.

Hmmmm.....that's a little nugget I could have used three days ago!

I actually considered that, but went through the exercise of fitting each piece so I would have as few seams as possible. I can tell that things upstairs are not being heard quite as clearly, but I am still a LONG ways off from completing the soundproofing. My goal is to use the room at any volume at any time without ever having to adjust that volume down. We'll see....
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