or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition - Page 8

post #211 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

After Receiving Today my copy of Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition Disk... (Thank you Buzz for that)

I can confirm that it has the most advanced tests (static or motion patterns) available of any other Calibration Disk of my Collection!

I just took a picture of my UpdaTED Calibration/Reference Disks Collection. smile.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by e08 View Post

eek.gif

Now that is one impressive collection! Makes my set of 3 disks seems pitiful... Gotta start somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

That's a nice collection.

As far as BD calibration disks go (not including free ones), I currently have just the Disney WOW BD and Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition. If I was to get a third, which would be the best/most up-to-date choice? (I have rented the DVE HD Basics BD from Netflix before, but wasn't a huge fan of it.) Any tips?
post #212 of 636
Kudos on the 2nd edition. I messed around with it a little today. I really like the way it's organized and navigating is easy.

It's a good thing I kept the 1st edition. I couldn't get the left side completely black at 3x filtering on the color and tint pattern. I used both to get 4x filtering and was able to dial it in all the way.

I can't wait to really get into it this weekend. Good job guys!
post #213 of 636
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

As far as BD calibration disks go (not including free ones), I currently have just the Disney WOW BD and Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition. If I was to get a third, which would be the best/most up-to-date choice? (I have rented the DVE HD Basics BD from Netflix before, but wasn't a huge fan of it.) Any tips?

Spears & Munsil covers all possible static/moving patterns evaluation of any display but if you need some more motion tests, the second choice must have disk is the:

Super HiVi Cast Check & Adjustment



Chapters 43-66 have very good test to check your display various combination motion enhancement settings to prevent intoducing artifacts etc.

You can buy from there:

http://dvd.jsdvd.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=19076

It's expensive, about 175$ dollars + shipping.

The FPD Benchmark Software has important motion resolution test as a third option and...

Hi-Definition Reference Disc has a lot of reference color reproduction/gradiation tests recommended as a forth option of your collection.
post #214 of 636
Who would have thought that there would be that many calibration disks?
post #215 of 636
When looking at the various RGB ramps (double, horizontal, vertical) under video measurements -> general, I notice the CAL-NIGHT and CAL-DAY modes show more bands/streaks than Movie mode. Does this mean the N/D modes are broken on my Samsung LED-LCD?
post #216 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

Just to add one Don said. Try the 75 and 100% bars under video measurements. The 75% would be like WoW. If the 75% works and the 100% doesn't, this suggests that something funny is going on. Our color bar and tint pattern falls between 75% and 100%.

You have turned color all the way up and down and the two never match? You should stand back as far away as possible from the screen so the border between the two colors does not distract.

The red bar is black but the yellow and green are still slightly visible. The blue box is always darker than the white surround. The tint boxes match just fine.
I guess try RGB color space.

thanks
td

P.S. Where was the 3d montage shot?
post #217 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucsondave View Post

The red bar is black but the yellow and green are still slightly visible. The blue box is always darker than the white surround. The tint boxes match just fine.

Well, if the green and yellow are very faint, that's not likely to be the problem, though if they're clearly visible you either need a darker filter or will have to give up and use a colorimeter or spectroradiometer to calibrate.

However, this kind of thing can be caused by a CMS on a wide-gamut display. Why it would happen more with our pattern rather than other patterns is a bit of a mystery, though maybe it's just more of an issue with a brighter pattern like ours. It's possible that when you feed it RGB it turns off the CMS and just uses the expanded wide-gamut primaries on the display. If so, then you can't really calibrate your color control with a filter while the CMS is on. You could turn it off (if there's a way to do so), set the color control, then turn it back on again.

I'm not sure I know all the locations for the montage; Stacey can give more detail. There are shots from Gas Works Park in Seattle that I helped with. And some of it was shot at the Palace of Fine Arts and other San Francisco locations. The strange rock formations are at Mono Lake. I'm sure I'm missing something.
Edited by dmunsil - 5/18/13 at 8:28pm
post #218 of 636
Quote:
I notice the CAL-NIGHT and CAL-DAY modes show more bands/streaks than Movie mode. Does this mean the N/D modes are broken on my Samsung LED-LCD?

Its possible the D/N modes have a setting enabled that is causing the banding or something is not set correctly in those modes. My VT20 has banding in all modes except THX and Custom.

Montage locations include:

Gas Works Park
Joshua Tree
Mono Lake
Water Fountain in Sammamish, WA
Palace of the Fine Arts
(The following three are all right next to each other)
Music Concourse (By de Young Museum)
Japanese Tea Garden
Stow Lake

I think that is about it.

The right eye was processed in Nuke using the Ocula plug-in to correct for various differences between the two eyes. (rotation, skew, size, color, etc...) Each shot took 90 minutes to process. There are roughly 60 shots in total. One shot has a floating window in the left eye and two shots have a floating window in the right eye. There were a couple of shots with glare in the right eye that was not in the left.

Most shots were with a 24mm lens. Some with a 35mm lens. Used the RED PRO PRIME on the mono lake shots. Used a Nikon G prime on the Gas Works Park stuff. The rest was a Canon Tilt Shift 24mm II lens. Gas Works Park and some of Palace of the Fine Arts was shot in hyper stereo with the two cameras around 2' apart. Those shots look miniature in 3D mode. The other shots had the center of the lenses around 5" apart.
post #219 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

Its possible the D/N modes have a setting enabled that is causing the banding or something is not set correctly in those modes. My VT20 has banding in all modes except THX and Custom.

I checked everything on the D/N modes vs. Movie mode and the only thing I found was that 'Motion Lighting' was grayed out in the On position in the D/N modes and grayed out in the Off position in Movie mode. I also measured a black level of 0.018 fL in the D/N modes vs. 0.0135 fL in Movie mode. I fully calibrated each mode to the same light output and gamma. I ended up avoiding the D/N modes since the banding plus weaker blacks simply wasn't worth putting up with.
post #220 of 636
Searched thread for resolution and only spotted motion-resolution tests. Does 2nd disc have a wider range of burst frequencies than the first Blu-ray? Must frequencies still be converted to video resolution? Thanks. -- John
post #221 of 636
The same burst frequencies are used on the 2nd disc for the Multiburst pattern. We did provide labels this time in pixel per cycle and TV lines. Several different chroma versions are available this time as well. We also added static wedge patterns that provide continues frequency from low to high as well as multipulse patterns.
post #222 of 636
Question on 24p tests:

When the player is set to 1080p/24, the pattern on screen is showing how each display mode handles 24p. When you set the player to 1080p/60 out, is a 24p pattern a test of the "smoothness" of the player handling, or is setting the player going to automatically induce judder? Long story short, is this pattern mainly for the display, or can this also be used to test the player?

To me, player on 24p, its just spitting out whats on the disc (for the most part) and the display does 60hz, 72hz, 96hz, etc... Setting player to 1080p/60 voids the test, because it aint gonna be smooth smile.gif

Hope that makes sense. Up to this point, Ive tested the Oppo and VT50 with the VT50 in 60hz and 96hz mode, then the Oppo just outputting 1080p/60. Oppo wins doing 2:3 hands down.
post #223 of 636
24p menu has various uses:

1. Its a reference for the source adaptive clips on what "correct" looks like. The original disc had a single 24p clip in the source adaptive menu. We created an entire section on this disc.
2. Its the only way to show clean chroma only wedges. Because the source adaptive section is all interlaced encoded, we could not really show a chroma only wedge because the chroma downsampling is different and would produce an ugly chroma wedge.
3. It allows you to validate a player has true 24p output if the player offers a 24p on/off option.
4. It can be used to check various motion interpolation modes. As you point out, if the display runs at 60 Hz, what does a better job converting the 24p back into 60, the player or the display.
Quote:
Ive tested the Oppo and VT50 with the VT50 in 60hz and 96hz mode, then the Oppo just outputting 1080p/60. Oppo wins doing 2:3 hands down.

Can you provide more details on this? You have found forcing the OPPO to output 60 Hz into the VT50 is better than running 24p into the VT50 because of the way the VT50 converts to 60 Hz?
post #224 of 636
I am no expert on calibration for tvs. you have helped me in the past with other things. I got your new disc and it worked very well. thank you for doing the 3d settings. it looks so much better. it seems that I was off on a few settings. now its very beautiful. I see more detail in both 2d and 3d. I just wanted to say a big thank you to you and Don about the new disc.
I hope that other 3d viewers check out the disc. it will help them get a better picture.

Jacob
post #225 of 636
One thing to point out is that sometimes you have to compromise. I have a VT20 in a light controlled room, so I can lower contrast in 2D mode to avoid clipping. in 3D mode, I have to live with some clipping or the 3D image is too dim.

In a non-light controlled room, you may have to live with more clipping. It will be a trade off of accurate vs. viewable.

One of the better 3D experiences for me today is the new Sony 4k panel. Its passive 3D that is full resolution 1080p. This means no delay (sync) between eyes and the image is brighter with passive. no annoying flicker. Sorry, just a random thought.
post #226 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

24p menu has various uses:

1. Its a reference for the source adaptive clips on what "correct" looks like. The original disc had a single 24p clip in the source adaptive menu. We created an entire section on this disc.
2. Its the only way to show clean chroma only wedges. Because the source adaptive section is all interlaced encoded, we could not really show a chroma only wedge because the chroma downsampling is different and would produce an ugly chroma wedge.
3. It allows you to validate a player has true 24p output if the player offers a 24p on/off option.
4. It can be used to check various motion interpolation modes. As you point out, if the display runs at 60 Hz, what does a better job converting the 24p back into 60, the player or the display.
Can you provide more details on this? You have found forcing the OPPO to output 60 Hz into the VT50 is better than running 24p into the VT50 because of the way the VT50 converts to 60 Hz?

Yes.

Both the 96hz mode and 60hz modes on the VT50, with a 24p input, show weird artifacts on the wedge test. While watching a movie, 96hz mode can look quite, but side pans create a trailing effect, or double image feeling. its slight but easily seen along the outline of peoples faces as the camera pans. Outputting 60hz from the Oppo results in some of the normal judder, but you dont have those odd artifacts, and the 24p wedge looks quite good.
post #227 of 636
Hi there,
We just received the 2nd edition of the Spears & Munsil calibration bluray along with our Oppo BDP-103.
I had previously used the Disney WoW disc to accomplish calibration on our Mitsubishi HC7800D 3D projector.
The result that we had achieved with that disc was thought to be spot on.
Boy, were we wrong. After running through the S&M disc we noticed a far better picture.
With S&M adding the the new 3D features this time around, we were finally able to sucessfully calibrate the 3D side of our projector.
With the nearly 30 3D blurays that we own we have NEVER seen such beautiful 3D as we have seen on the "Montage" section of the S&M disc.
Question, does anyone know exactly where the 3D montage was shot?
I checked the Spears & Munsil website and it only states that the footage was shot on Red Epic cameras.
If I were to guess, I would have to say the footage looks west coast but I'm not sure what part.

We currently live outside Los Angeles. We would very much like to visit the Japanese garden and that greico roman looking atrium with the duck pond surrounding it.

Thanks
post #228 of 636
Quote:
We would very much like to visit the Japanese garden and that greico roman looking atrium with the duck pond surrounding it.

I did a short write-up on one of these threads, but I can't currently find it. smile.gif There is one shot in Joshua Tree, a few at Mono Lake, a few more at Gas Works park in Seattle, Palace of the Fine Arts in San Francisco, and the rest, including the Japanese Garden, de Young Museum, and Stow Lake were all in San Francisco.
Quote:
With the nearly 30 3D blurays that we own we have NEVER seen such beautiful 3D as we have seen on the "Montage" section of the S&M disc.

Thank you for the kind words. We really wanted a lot of depth in the 3D montage. Feature films are often conservative in order to reduce eye strain. Most of the depth was set on a 50" display, but we did test up to 120" to ensure there is not too much strain.
post #229 of 636
well received the disk a couple of days ago now waiting for the lamp hours to accumulate so that can use the disk, in the meantime looking around the different section on the disk, it should do the trick on calibrating my BenQ W1070 bet the 3D would be awesome.
post #230 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shauri026 View Post

Hi there,
We just received the 2nd edition of the Spears & Munsil calibration bluray along with our Oppo BDP-103.
I had previously used the Disney WoW disc to accomplish calibration on our Mitsubishi HC7800D 3D projector.
The result that we had achieved with that disc was thought to be spot on.
Boy, were we wrong. After running through the S&M disc we noticed a far better picture.
With S&M adding the the new 3D features this time around, we were finally able to sucessfully calibrate the 3D side of our projector.
With the nearly 30 3D blurays that we own we have NEVER seen such beautiful 3D as we have seen on the "Montage" section of the S&M disc.
Question, does anyone know exactly where the 3D montage was shot?
I checked the Spears & Munsil website and it only states that the footage was shot on Red Epic cameras.
If I were to guess, I would have to say the footage looks west coast but I'm not sure what part.

We currently live outside Los Angeles. We would very much like to visit the Japanese garden and that greico roman looking atrium with the duck pond surrounding it.

Thanks

I was also very impressed with the calibration with the new disc for both the 2d/3d. it did make the 3d look so much better.

Jacob
post #231 of 636
Message for Stacey,

Okay, your 2nd Edition calibration disc's 3D montage section has seriously spoiled us.
No 3D movie or IMAX 3D bluray we own can come close to making our jaws drop like your 3D montage section has done. In fact, movies and other demonstration Blurays now look **BLAH** to say the least.

Will you two please consider releasing a 40-60 minute 3D Bluray demonstration disc???

After watching your disc both my partner and I went online to find any other 3D demonstration discs. They just don't exist :-(

If you two were to produce such a disc, we would be the first in line to purchase it, you can bet the farm on that.

Content we would love to see done in the style of your 2nd Edition's 3D montage section.

1) Night time and daytime city life and cityscapes
2) Nature in all of it's glory (wildlife, forest, mountains, lakes, etc)
3) Architectural interests
4) Covering something fast moving action (mountain biking, auto racing, skiing, etc)


Sadly, there's just not anything of this sort available to consumers that can showcase stunning 3D that's on the market right now... well, except for the "Spears & Munsil Calibration Bluray: 2nd Edition".


Thanks
Edited by Shauri026 - 5/29/13 at 1:11pm
post #232 of 636
Anyone have this disc as well as the Disney WoW disc? I loaned my Disney WoW disc to a friend a few hours away, and now he claims he cannot find it. I would like to calibrate my new 65PS64. Should I spend $17 another copy of the WoW disc or should I spend $30 on this disc?
post #233 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

Anyone have this disc as well as the Disney WoW disc? I loaned my Disney WoW disc to a friend a few hours away, and now he claims he cannot find it. I would like to calibrate my new 65PS64. Should I spend $17 another copy of the WoW disc or should I spend $30 on this disc?

Your friend didn't offer to replace it?
post #234 of 636
You should make your friend buy you the $30 disc! wink.gif

The WoW discs offers calibration for audio and video as well as lots and lots of cool demonstration material. Our disc offers calibration for audio and video and just a little demonstration material. Can't compete with Disney on demonstration material! We also offer evaluation patterns for scaling, deinterlacing, chroma upsampling, motion, advanced calibration, and 3D. Most of the latter is for reviews, equipment manufactures, and those looking to buy new gear to replace existing gear.
post #235 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

You should make your friend buy you the $30 disc! wink.gif

The WoW discs offers calibration for audio and video as well as lots and lots of cool demonstration material. Our disc offers calibration for audio and video and just a little demonstration material. Can't compete with Disney on demonstration material! We also offer evaluation patterns for scaling, deinterlacing, chroma upsampling, motion, advanced calibration, and 3D. Most of the latter is for reviews, equipment manufactures, and those looking to buy new gear to replace existing gear.

I have both this disc (S&M 2nd Edition) and Disney WOW BD and I find this one to be more comprehensive and it has stuff for everyone from the novice to the enthusiast to the professional. Yes, it has less demo material but I prefer non-animated video for demo material anyways, since it's easier to judge color accuracy with real skintones and nature scenes.

To be honest, I've just scratched the surface with this disc so far and haven't learned how to use the more advanced display evaluation tools yet. I have a long way to go with it before I can say I've learned how to use everything on the disc.
post #236 of 636
hi guys i am a complete novice at this calibrating thing, i had finally retired my old Sony CRT tv and bought a Samsung lcd led smart tv or whatever you call it,i have it now just 3 months and have been adjusting it every other day since.. the wife is gonna leave me if i don't stop it so i have brought the Sony out of retirement and set it up in another room and i have to say the picture on it is perfect compared to the Samsung supposedly smart tv thingy. i thought HD was way better than sd i can see a bit of an improvement sometimes but on other channels not much?,maybe i am getting to old to even bother about all the different picture settings and such and just sell the lcd..or i might give your HD benchmark 2nd edition disc a try, and i would if i could understand it, all we want to do is watch programs on tv through a sky HD box, now i am not bothered about watching movies or playing games or surfing the internet on my telly, can i just watch BBC and itv and some Chanel 4 and 5 and some football and rugby on sky sports please with a reasonable picture that's all i want to do really. so the first thing that's confusing me is that when i put your disc into the blue ray player will that just calibrate the settings on that particular hdmi port that the blue ray is on??then how do i calibrate the picture on my sky box that's in a different port,?? will i have to set up all 3 or 4 ports it says i can have each one set to different picture modes...?? then i have free-view built in on the tv will that picture be calibrated along with the blue ray? i know most of you people on here understand this calibrating thing but i would say that the vast majority of people that have bought new tvs over the last few years are watching the tv with the setting that was on it when it came out of the box, with the face burnt of them by the brightness..im starting to thing i will never be happy with the picture on my new telly because there are far to many channels and when one or two looks OK you switch over to another and it looks rubbish:mad:..anyway why don't all you very clever people get together and bring out a telly that has got a great picture on it without all these stupid adjustments, i think as far as tvs concerned we have gone backwards....look at the picture on that old Sony CRT...wink.gif
post #237 of 636
sorry people im gonna sort of answer myself here but after reading through more posts on here i have come to the conclusion that a lot of the people on here seem to be happy continually adjusting and readjusting the settings on their tvs.. so does that mean that you will never have the correct setting on these telly's ever???
can i not have settings that will cover all the channels,like that one could say, "well this channel is always darker looking or brighter looking than most others but its ok" so that you don't feel like you have too get the old s&m disc out again you know...eek.gif
i am starting to think that the people on here are not interested in watching tv at all, i mean look at this guy ConnecTEDDD with all his discs just for calibrating tvs:eek:i do hope he owns a tv shop probably got a chain of them world wide,?? and if he doesn't then i would be worried wink.gif
post #238 of 636
William, before you buy a disc, I would highly recommend you read the articles on our website (www.spearsandmunsil.com) and see if it is something you feel comfortable with. Not everyone does.

As far as constant adjustment, the only time I re-calibrate grayscale and gamut on my DLP is when I change bulbs. The other controls were set and are good to go. Modern digital displays are better than CRTs when it comes to calibration because they are more stable, at least LCOS, LCD, and DLP. Plasma's are more like CRTs and need more frequent tune-ups. When studios used CRTs for color grading, they would calibrate them every day and they often never turned them off or they would drift faster. Modern displays also have a lot more video adjustment choices and most of it is for marketing purposes and often makes the images look worse. Part of setup is turning all of that stuff off.

As far as multiple sources. TVs often have multiple memories for picture settings, which include per input, resolution, color space, and framerate. If you can ensure your Blu-ray player is outputting the same signal that your Sky box is outputting, then its probably going to work. Note that does not ensure that each channel on a box is correct. For a long time the SyFy channel in the US output elevated blacks. That appears to have been fixed, at least in HD.

As far as people owning multiple discs, some of us are collectors. Sometimes new discs offer new tests or demonstration material. Displays still have lots of room for improvement when it comes to video processing (scaling, deinterlacing, etc...) Our disc serves multiple people so we offer a lot of content to try and cover all possible customers. We want consumers to be able to setup their display and to help them when buying new gear by providing the tools to evaluate. We want reviewers to have tools to perform better objective tests. We want manufactures to have better tools to build better products.

Our first disc only continued content that an end user could adjust without special gear. The 2nd disc contains additional, advanced content, for those with the special gear. Then there is 3D, which requires a different calibration than 2D. I am always thinking of new things to evaluate and I am always looking for better technology. Ultra HD means starting over again. This is were scaling has a lot of room for improvement and there is stuff coming that is exciting.

My display is setup so that Apple TV, Roku (Netflix and Hulu), Blu-ray, and a TiVo s3 are all calibrated.
post #239 of 636
This link is to a "sticky" thread, which has an opening post that should help explain simply about why to calibrate at all: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021933

This is a link to another article and web site that should help you understand some fundamental realities about television: http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/why-tvs-are-not-calibrated-from-factory/
post #240 of 636
well thank you very much for your replay Stacey Spears, and i have to tell you that its to late i have the hd benchmark 2nd edition sitting in front of me,
and im not at all very happy because it cost me 30 dollars and then i was charged another £13 for vat in the uk so that's nearly another 20 dollars so 50 in
total for something that i may not use..ah well sure i still got the old Sony CRT
you say "If you can ensure your Blu-ray player is outputting the same signal that your Sky box is outputting" i don't even know what that means man..
you mention 3d well my tv has 3d and i most say i am very impressed by it, but i find that i have to stop watching it after about halve an hour because i feel like
i have motion sickness i don't feel well at all but i take a twenty min break and i get back in there
but seriously if i am gonna have to have different settings for night and day then i don't think i will bother i mean good god there must be a happy medium .
the sy/fy channel is very bad yet dont matter what you do, the thing that annoys me most is the blacks look ok and then after a while on the same channel they
look green and god knows what, after me thinking they were fine.
and another thing i cant understand is that most people say that movie is the one to use, well i have tried it and standard, and movie is terrible,
i can get some kind of a picture with standard. and also most of the settings people publish on here are far to washed out and dark i just cant watch them...
ha ha i know what it is its me that's the problem after all, her indoors would agree..
oh and thanks georgeAB for the links, will have a look tomorrow, you guys might make a calibrator out o me yet...will be collecting discs yet.....not....eek.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Display Calibration
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition