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Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition - Page 3

post #61 of 636
Avical tested out our EE patterns on several Panasonic plasmas and David was happy with them. We hope to get them integrated into a signal generator.
post #62 of 636
All of the articles have been updated for the 2nd edition disc. We have tried a new approach to showing the difference to 4:2:0, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4, which we hope makes it more clear on what is really happening. This can be found in the Choosing a Color Space article.

The Pattern Help Text article has all of the text from the disc in one place. This includes the Guide text and the pop-up help text. It even includes any, and all, typos. smile.gif
post #63 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

Avical tested out our EE patterns on several Panasonic plasmas and David was happy with them. We hope to get them integrated into a signal generator.

Very cool.
post #64 of 636
Are the equal energy gamut patterns 100% saturation and 75% luminance?
post #65 of 636
Gamut comes in 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% saturation. The 25, 50, and 75% also include a 100% white.
post #66 of 636
Man. This will be a one stop shop.
post #67 of 636
I look forward to purchasing this disc to add to my collection...

Thanks Stacy
post #68 of 636
In addition to the gamut, you also have the windows from 0-100% in 10% steps in all colors.

If it is not clear, all of that is available in 2D and 3D mode. Not that the 3D will be flat. The only 3D that will have depth is in the Stereoscopic section as well as the Montage and DTS trailer.
post #69 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

In addition to the gamut, you also have the windows from 0-100% in 10% steps in all colors.

If it is not clear, all of that is available in 2D and 3D mode. Not that the 3D will be flat. The only 3D that will have depth is in the Stereoscopic section as well as the Montage and DTS trailer.

for the grayscale and gamut sequences, will 100% white be the first pattern that shows up? (like CalMAN 4/5 expects)

also, will there be near black and near white grayscale patterns?
post #70 of 636
100% white is the last pattern. It goes black, red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow, white, white 100%.

When CalMAN adds support for our disc, they can have it measure in any order they like.
Quote:
will there be near black and near white grayscale patterns?

Not sure what you are asking. We have 0% - 100% in 10% steps. So 0, 10, 20, ..., 100%.
post #71 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

Not sure what you are asking. We have 0% - 100% in 10% steps. So 0, 10, 20, ..., 100%.

I mean patterns like 1%, 2%, 3%, 4%, and 5% near black and 95%, 96%, 97%, 98%, and 99% near white (kind of like the near black and near white measurements in ColorHCFR)
post #72 of 636
We only offer EE window patterns. There is not enough space on the pattern to have more levels on that style of pattern. We could have fit two more levels, like 5 and 15%, but that made the window in the center even smaller. As it is we have an 8% size window in the center. I think 6% in size is what we had when we had 5 and 15% and that limited to meters that had a true 2 degree spot meter, which ruled out many less expensive meters.

I would also bet that no one has a meter capable of the levels near black. You would need something like a PR 740 or one of their dedicated light meters to get accurate results that low. I have an LS-100 and even it is not accurate enough for 0% vs 5% and its more accurate than a PR655 down low.
post #73 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

We only offer EE window patterns. There is not enough space on the pattern to have more levels on that style of pattern. We could have fit two more levels, like 5 and 15%, but that made the window in the center even smaller. As it is we have an 8% size window in the center. I think 6% in size is what we had when we had 5 and 15% and that limited to meters that had a true 2 degree spot meter, which ruled out many less expensive meters.

I would also bet that no one has a meter capable of the levels near black. You would need something like a PR 740 or one of their dedicated light meters to get accurate results that low. I have an LS-100 and even it is not accurate enough for 0% vs 5% and its more accurate than a PR655 down low.

ok, that makes sense

regarding reading levels near black, the black level of the display matters too... since my displays have average black levels, my C6 would be easily able to measure gamma near black

also, I asked about the levels near white because of CalMAN 5's dynamic range tool


overall, the goal of my questions was to see if I could use this disk alone for metered calibration or whether I would have to combine it with one of the many user created disks on this forum like the AVS disc and GCD disc... all in all, it seems like I can do 95% of what I need to with this disc and then just use one of the user created ones for the remaining 5%
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 4/26/13 at 8:29am
post #74 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

We only offer EE window patterns.

What is the approximate percent of peak energy level they maintain?
post #75 of 636
post #76 of 636
This disc is now available from OPPO.
post #77 of 636
hi , i'm in france and oppo.com send not in france .how can i do to buy spears and munsill seconde edition
thanks
post #78 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by vhccc View Post

hi , i'm in france and oppo.com send not in france .how can i do to buy spears and munsill seconde edition
thanks

Same problem here. I would like to purchase one as well. I'm in Asia.
post #79 of 636
I will ask OPPO. You may need to wait for it to show up at amazon and other dealers.
post #80 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by vhccc View Post

hi , i'm in france and oppo.com send not in france .how can i do to buy spears and munsill seconde edition
thanks
Maybe french official oppo dealer like hdland, uht...
post #81 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

I will ask OPPO. You may need to wait for it to show up at amazon and other dealers.

how long before it shows at other dealers (in the US)? and is the price going to be $30 everywhere or is it dealer specific?

one more question is if I get the disc now, will there be an updated version anytime soon in the next six months to a year? (I mean minor changes/revisions, not a 3rd edition or anything major.)
post #82 of 636
Doubtful. I think they start working on a 4k disc next.
post #83 of 636
Quote:
one more question is if I get the disc now, will there be an updated version anytime soon in the next six months to a year?

That is a great question! The last disc was four years ago and only one version. There are no plans to make any changes to this disc, which includes bug fixing. There are some things on the disc that we would love to change, but we are going to live with them. Stuff we learned about usage after it was close to being done that sounded great on paper but did not turn out that way. :-) As mentioned by gadgtfreek, our next project will most likely be 4k. No ETA on that. Once we get our REDRAY player, we will start playing around with it. We have started some 4k work already. We can generate most of our patterns in 4k, but it is all 8-bit 4:2:0. We need to build native 10-bit and 4:2:2 patterns, which his a big undertaking.
Quote:
how long before it shows at other dealers (in the US)? and is the price going to be $30 everywhere or is it dealer specific?

That is up to dealers. An interested dealer must first place an order with the distributor and then once done, inventory will be shipped to them. $29.97 is MSRP. The first disc was almost never discounted as we tried to price the disc at a fair price for what you get. Others have set a higher MSRP and then it is sold for what appears like a big discount. Disney 3D discs are all priced at $50 each, which seems like a lot.

While we don't advertise it, you get both a Blu-ray and DVD. The DVD we consider a bonus DVD as it is just a small subset of content from the Blu-ray. Mostly for people to evaluate the quality of a Blu-ray players ability to deal with SD content. We found some Blu-ray players treated SD content on a Blu-ray different when that same content was on a DVD. Since reviewers and manufacturers are part of the customer base, we wanted something for them to drive quality up. Sometimes it takes a loud customer base to influence CE manufacturers to do the right thing. The chroma bug was a great example. We tried to get it fixed long before we published our article in 2001. In the end, it took customers demanding money back to get any traction on the subject.
post #84 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

That is a great question! The last disc was four years ago and only one version. There are no plans to make any changes to this disc, which includes bug fixing. There are some things on the disc that we would love to change, but we are going to live with them. Stuff we learned about usage after it was close to being done that sounded great on paper but did not turn out that way. :-) As mentioned by gadgtfreek, our next project will most likely be 4k. No ETA on that. Once we get our REDRAY player, we will start playing around with it. We have started some 4k work already. We can generate most of our patterns in 4k, but it is all 8-bit 4:2:0. We need to build native 10-bit and 4:2:2 patterns, which his a big undertaking.
That is up to dealers. An interested dealer must first place an order with the distributor and then once done, inventory will be shipped to them. $29.97 is MSRP. The first disc was almost never discounted as we tried to price the disc at a fair price for what you get. Others have set a higher MSRP and then it is sold for what appears like a big discount. Disney 3D discs are all priced at $50 each, which seems like a lot.

While we don't advertise it, you get both a Blu-ray and DVD. The DVD we consider a bonus DVD as it is just a small subset of content from the Blu-ray. Mostly for people to evaluate the quality of a Blu-ray players ability to deal with SD content. We found some Blu-ray players treated SD content on a Blu-ray different when that same content was on a DVD. Since reviewers and manufacturers are part of the customer base, we wanted something for them to drive quality up. Sometimes it takes a loud customer base to influence CE manufacturers to do the right thing. The chroma bug was a great example. We tried to get it fixed long before we published our article in 2001. In the end, it took customers demanding money back to get any traction on the subject.

thanks for the detailed response

regarding some of the articles for the 2nd edition here (http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/?page_id=43), if I have a source device that doesn't show WTW and BTB (or I choose to calibrate white only to 235), will I still be able to use all the patterns correctly on the disc... such as for the color squares on the contrast pattern and the various squares for the 'choosing a color space' pattern

basically, these patterns:









post #85 of 636
^
In any case, I plan on picking up a copy of this disc soon. I was originally going to get the 1st edition, but decided to wait for the current one based on threads like this one.
post #86 of 636
If the receiver is clipping at 16/235 in YCbCr, the clipping pattern white and black concentric boxes will appear flat, the xvYCC will show concentric boxes, but the color boxes may still have concentric boxes. Having the concentric RGB boxes is more important than the white box. YCbCr that fall within 16-235 can end up >235 once converted to RGB. If you clip once converted to RGB, you may loose specular highlights and experience slight hue shifts at the pixel level.

The contrast pattern color boxes along the top and bottom are a coarse version of what is found on the clipping pattern that is below it. You may see the white clipped but still see boxes in color, which is what is most important.

Clipping in 3D will probably be what most people experience. Displays have to do something so you can still see the image when wearing the 3D glasses, which cuts out a lot of light.
post #87 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

If the receiver is clipping at 16/235 in YCbCr, the clipping pattern white and black concentric boxes will appear flat, the xvYCC will show concentric boxes, but the color boxes may still have concentric boxes. Having the concentric RGB boxes is more important than the white box. YCbCr that fall within 16-235 can end up >235 once converted to RGB. If you clip once converted to RGB, you may loose specular highlights and experience slight hue shifts at the pixel level.

The contrast pattern color boxes along the top and bottom are a coarse version of what is found on the clipping pattern that is below it. You may see the white clipped but still see boxes in color, which is what is most important.

Clipping in 3D will probably be what most people experience. Displays have to do something so you can still see the image when wearing the 3D glasses, which cuts out a lot of light.

ok, thanks

just to clarify, is clipping at the BD player (such as by turning off super white on the PS3) the same is clipping at the receiver and does clipping once converted to RGB refer to clipping at the display (by cranking up contrast)?
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 4/27/13 at 10:00am
post #88 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

ok, thanks

just to clarify, is clipping at the BD player (such as by turning off super white on the PS3) the same is clipping at the receiver and does clipping once converted to RGB refer to clipping at the display (by cranking up contrast)?

No they all 3 have slightly different effects. And contrast co trols can behave differently on different sets.

But if you listen to what stacey is saying, its avoid clipping all together.
post #89 of 636
damn! also want this disc...and nowhere to be found that ships to sweden yet.. =(
post #90 of 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

No they all 3 have slightly different effects. And contrast co trols can behave differently on different sets.

But if you listen to what stacey is saying, its avoid clipping all together.

ok

my goal is to limit white to 235 at the PS3 level by turning super white off and use contrast and the color control to show a reasonable amount of levels beyond 235 for red, green, and blue... which my current calibration does for the most part

the real point of my question is to see if the patterns on this disc can be used effectively even when going to 254 for white is either not possible or not desired
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