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Official JVC DLA-RS46 / DLA-X35 owners thread - Page 61

post #1801 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post

I saved the lens memory with the projector warmed up at least 30 minutes. I've checked for any drift a few times and there doesn't seem to be. Or it's so minor I'm not noticing (I stand by the screen and look at the pixel sharpness).
How much overspray do you have on the screen border? I only have maybe a half inch or so. Did you set it by adjusting up to the desired position or by adjusting down to the desired position?

I notice the projector has a certain pattern when it switches.

Even after I correct and save it, it almost always adjusts too high (by and inch or so, at least 3 button presses).

The motor doesn't seem to be the finest thing around. I would have much preferred Panasonic's implementation (Zoom out and simply shift the image up).
post #1802 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post

How much overspray do you have on the screen border? I only have maybe a half inch or so. Did you set it by adjusting up to the desired position or by adjusting down to the desired position?

I notice the projector has a certain pattern when it switches.

Even after I correct and save it, it almost always adjusts too high (by and inch or so, at least 3 button presses).

The motor doesn't seem to be the finest thing around. I would have much preferred Panasonic's implementation (Zoom out and simply shift the image up).

I have around .5" (probably a little less) overspill of the active image on the border. It pulls down and then zooms to fill the screen. The green left/right lines of the pattern when zoomed for scope consistently line up on the edge of the screen.
post #1803 of 2060
In reading all the posts in this thread I was concerned that without having Lumagen CMS and CalMAN or another calibration package to really enjoy the projector. For me, this assumption was wrong. Though I plan to do both eventually (calMAN first, then Lumagen) I find the picture quality excellent out of the box. Besides, I'm having more fun watching show versus spending time calibrating.

I've also found that when watch a movie at a standard volume the noise from the projector on high altitude is rarely noticed, thankfully.
post #1804 of 2060
So I have some top/bottom 3D files and it comes out with 2 images stacked. I have the 3D setting set to top/bottom... Is there any way to make it work right?
post #1805 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelup View Post

You can turn off the test pattern in one of the setup menus.

Wow! I didn't know this but I've only had thje PJ for a few days. . I thought I had to live with the patterns, it would be amazing if we can actually do the zooming with the image in place. Thanks for this info, and Im so glad I decided to browse this thread today.

Especially useful for movies where the aspect ratio keeps changing.
post #1806 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcarfan View Post

Wow! I didn't know this but I've only had thje PJ for a few days. . I thought I had to live with the patterns, it would be amazing if we can actually do the zooming with the image in place. Thanks for this info, and Im so glad I decided to browse this thread today.

Especially useful for movies where the aspect ratio keeps changing.

it's not fast enough to be useful for changing AR's in a movie(like TDK kind of stuff).

but it is so much nicer not explaining what is going on to friends and family when the pattern shows up. it's like with the pattern, they all wonder what's wrong, and if you broke something and they won't get to watch a movie now. with the pattern off, they are just amazed that it automatically adjusts to the right size.
post #1807 of 2060
What's the latest update? I have not updated my receiver since it came out I got it in first shipment
post #1808 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

it's not fast enough to be useful for changing AR's in a movie(like TDK kind of stuff).

but it is so much nicer not explaining what is going on to friends and family when the pattern shows up. it's like with the pattern, they all wonder what's wrong, and if you broke something and they won't get to watch a movie now. with the pattern off, they are just amazed that it automatically adjusts to the right size.

Nice! I didn't know this as well... Will go into the menu to look for this option. The grid is nice for the initial setup but would rather see the image than the grid. Thanks
post #1809 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

it's not fast enough to be useful for changing AR's in a movie(like TDK kind of stuff).

but it is so much nicer not explaining what is going on to friends and family when the pattern shows up. it's like with the pattern, they all wonder what's wrong, and if you broke something and they won't get to watch a movie now. with the pattern off, they are just amazed that it automatically adjusts to the right size.

You are absolutely right. The pattern definitely through my wife off. It kind of sucks even for me when that shows up.
post #1810 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcarfan View Post

You are absolutely right. The pattern definitely through my wife off. It kind of sucks even for me when that shows up.

yup, it's like 10-20 seconds of not viewing content. first-world problems i guess, but it annoys me to have to 'wait' haha
post #1811 of 2060
Although I'm very thankful for having the lens memory feature, I have never found it to place the image in exactly the same place every time. There appears to be no issue with focus or zoom, but the shift point is almost always off by about 1/4".

I notice that @jeahrens said he had about 1/2" around each edge, and that's fine if you do. In my case, I'd like to use as much of the screen as possible, and therefore probably only have about 1/8" in total horizontally and the same vertically.

It doesn't bother me too much, but I do have to manually adjust the shift every single time I change to a different setting. The lens memory still has it's benefits, because it sorts out the focus, zoom and gets me 90% of the way on shift, but it's just not consistent enough for my liking.
post #1812 of 2060
I should add that because I end up needing to adjust the shift every time, I have to leave the green alignment pattern on in order to do this accurately... I would much rather have this switched off, for the reasons everyone mentioned.
post #1813 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil View Post

I should add that because I end up needing to adjust the shift every time, I have to leave the green alignment pattern on in order to do this accurately... I would much rather have this switched off, for the reasons everyone mentioned.

I wish there was a way to have the pattern on when you adjust, but leave it off when you load a memory position.

cause I am like you, I tend to get some drift either from the projector itself or my mount, and I tend to want to make fine adjustments at least once a week. i set mine with 0 bleed over the edges, and even 1-2pixels off is noticeable from my front row. sometimes it's more annoying to turn the pattern on and off then it is to just wait 20seconds while it repositions itself.

that being said, last night I changed settings twice and was pleasantly surprised to see it loaded up perfectly. fingers crossed some of it's been my mount 'settling'
post #1814 of 2060
Nezil;out of interest are you running a short throw set up with lots of zoom? Mine is right back in my room so my lens memory settings are all around the minimum zoom setting (I use a lens but still have to have a different lens memory setting for with or without lens for technical reasons due to the way my lens works). I find that my memory is therefore pretty consistent, but wonder if it's because I only use it between 1 and maybe 1.05X zoom and small variations in shift/focus that this change requires?
post #1815 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Nezil;out of interest are you running a short throw set up with lots of zoom? Mine is right back in my room so my lens memory settings are all around the minimum zoom setting (I use a lens but still have to have a different lens memory setting for with or without lens for technical reasons due to the way my lens works). I find that my memory is therefore pretty consistent, but wonder if it's because I only use it between 1 and maybe 1.05X zoom and small variations in shift/focus that this change requires?

the focus and zoom are pretty consistent. it's the shift that causes the issue. for whatever reason, i find the horizontal shift more troublesome than the vertical shift. but that's also why i think it might have something to do with my mount, it doesn't have the best horizontal adjustments(basically tighten down a couple screws when you have it where you want it). so far i haven't gone longer than about a month without 'knocking' the projector by accident and having to reposition it, so i haven't been able to rule out the mount yet.
post #1816 of 2060
I don't use any horizontal shift on my X35 as I went to great lengths to ensure that it is mounted dead centre of the screen, since it's best not to use any horizontal shift when using an A-lens. Maybe that's part of the difference in that I don't notice much drift, though I do have quite a bit of vertical shift applied it doesn't change much between my two settings.

I've made some adjustments to my screen recently to allow it to drop a little lower as I've moved some furniture around and I can now do this. So the next time I have my X35 on I'll have to re-program the settings (at least in terms of vertical shift anyway). I've always felt that my screen was a little too high, so I'm looking forward to seeing if this small (3-4" shift) will be noticeable to me. The bottom of the screen is literally mm above my wall mounted MK MP150 speakers so I can't get them any closer to the screen, so this is the best compromise I can manage since I can't use an AT screen in my room as there is a window behind the screen.

I've been making some changes to the room which will clear the area each side of the screen to allow me to be able to put up removable black material panels when viewing films, so this should help to get a bit more out of my X35: I've seen the X35 at my speaker dealer's demo room in a totally black walled room and it seemed like what I would expect an X95 to look like, so it's kind of a mid (projector) life upgrade that I'm hoping for to hold me over for another year or two.
post #1817 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil View Post

Although I'm very thankful for having the lens memory feature, I have never found it to place the image in exactly the same place every time. There appears to be no issue with focus or zoom, but the shift point is almost always off by about 1/4".

I notice that @jeahrens said he had about 1/2" around each edge, and that's fine if you do. In my case, I'd like to use as much of the screen as possible, and therefore probably only have about 1/8" in total horizontally and the same vertically.

It doesn't bother me too much, but I do have to manually adjust the shift every single time I change to a different setting. The lens memory still has it's benefits, because it sorts out the focus, zoom and gets me 90% of the way on shift, but it's just not consistent enough for my liking.

There's variation with content. Some are 2.4, Some 2.37. Some 2.35. A little overspill (the .5 estimate is probably a bit high) makes the viewing experience more consistent. There are still some oddball films out there that end up inside the frame.
Edited by jeahrens - 2/4/14 at 9:50am
post #1818 of 2060
Of course...that's another reason it doesn't effect me as much: I use my Lumagen to slightly crop my image (as it's a fraction too wide/high for my screen when I use my A-lens even at minimum zoom) this gives the result that 2.35:1 and 2.40:1 both fill the screen without overspill or slight black bars showing. I don't have any choice since my throw is a little too long (or it's an excuse to buy a slightly bigger screen which I may well do if I like the Draper ReAct screen when I demo it soon wink.gif ).
post #1819 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

I don't use any horizontal shift on my X35 as I went to great lengths to ensure that it is mounted dead centre of the screen, since it's best not to use any horizontal shift when using an A-lens. Maybe that's part of the difference in that I don't notice much drift, though I do have quite a bit of vertical shift applied it doesn't change much between my two settings.

I've made some adjustments to my screen recently to allow it to drop a little lower as I've moved some furniture around and I can now do this. So the next time I have my X35 on I'll have to re-program the settings (at least in terms of vertical shift anyway). I've always felt that my screen was a little too high, so I'm looking forward to seeing if this small (3-4" shift) will be noticeable to me. The bottom of the screen is literally mm above my wall mounted MK MP150 speakers so I can't get them any closer to the screen, so this is the best compromise I can manage since I can't use an AT screen in my room as there is a window behind the screen.

I've been making some changes to the room which will clear the area each side of the screen to allow me to be able to put up removable black material panels when viewing films, so this should help to get a bit more out of my X35: I've seen the X35 at my speaker dealer's demo room in a totally black walled room and it seemed like what I would expect an X95 to look like, so it's kind of a mid (projector) life upgrade that I'm hoping for to hold me over for another year or two.

could be, my set up definetly isn't ideal. my 'viewing area' is kind of shifted over to the right side of the room, and my smaller 100" screen is centered in front of that. my larger 120" screen that i use for scope movies is basically wall to wall and centered in the room(making my seat on the left of the viewing area almost dead center).

the projector is close to centered on the 120" screen, but using almost max horizontal shift on the 100" screen.

as i said, isn't ideal.
post #1820 of 2060
Goodness, lots of replies since my post... I should clarify I guess...

@Kelvin: My RS46 is mounted about 13' from the screen, putting it about half way through the available zoom for my 115" 2.35:1 screen / 92" at 16:9. I think that is closer than yours if I remember from reading your previous posts. My projector is dead centre as well, but I've noticed that every time a lens memory is called, the projector does move the lens left and right as well as up and down at the start of the movement process. It's almost as if it needs to move the lens to check it's position both horizontally and vertically before it re-locates it. Even if I'm using zero horizontal shift, it still wants to move the lens horizontally left then right just to locate itself.

@fierce_gt: I'd agree that the horizontal shift is always more off than vertical, but both usually require a little adjustment.

@jeahrens: I'm very aware that there are different aspect ratios to content, and I have made up magnetic black velvet masking for 16:9 (1.78:1) content. My screen is 2.35:1, and I'm noticing that quite a few movies are slightly wider than this at 2.39:1 or 2.4:1; I watched Don Jon last night, which is 2.41:1. In these cases though, I don't zoom out further on the screen, I just make do with having small black letterbox bars at the top and bottom of my screen. The sides are still framed accurately to the sides of my screen, with zero overspill and zero gap.

I currently have lens memory settings for 1.78:1, 2.20:1 and 2.35:1, with masking panels, as I said, for 1.78:1 content. I am finding that I'm slightly frustrated by the large amount of content that is 1.85:1, and am considering making up additional masking panels for 1.85:1 and 2.20:1, along with the relevant lens memory for 1.85:1.

I made my masking panels from Elmer's board, and it's difficult to get the large sheets required to make the masking panels locally; it means a trip to San Francisco or Berkley, which I don't have planned for a while. Right now then, I'm making do with letter-boxed 1.85:1 content in a 1.78:1 window, and 2.20:1 pillar-boxed in a 2.35:1 content window.
post #1821 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil View Post

Goodness, lots of replies since my post... I should clarify I guess...

@Kelvin: My RS46 is mounted about 13' from the screen, putting it about half way through the available zoom for my 115" 2.35:1 screen / 92" at 16:9. I think that is closer than yours if I remember from reading your previous posts. My projector is dead centre as well, but I've noticed that every time a lens memory is called, the projector does move the lens left and right as well as up and down at the start of the movement process. It's almost as if it needs to move the lens to check it's position both horizontally and vertically before it re-locates it. Even if I'm using zero horizontal shift, it still wants to move the lens horizontally left then right just to locate itself.
.

i'll have to pay attention next time i do it, but i don't think mine behaves this way.
i have a setting for 2.35 on my smaller screen that simply moves the image up to the top of the 16:9 screen. when moving between that setting and the normal 16:9 setting there is no horizontal adjustment necessary, and i do not believe the projector ever adjusts anything horizontally.

when there is a horizontal adjustment necessary though, i think i know what you're talking about. it usually starts moving in the wrong way for a second and then start going the right way. or something like that, never paid that much attention to be honest. but it's definitely not a direct, smooth transition. it does something funky at the start.
post #1822 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil View Post

I am finding that I'm slightly frustrated by the large amount of content that is 1.85:1, and am considering making up additional masking panels for 1.85:1 and 2.20:1, along with the relevant lens memory for 1.85:1.
.

I'm finding that having a 16:9 screen is less of a frustration than it used to be.

I think for myself I would ideally have 2 separate screens, say a 2.35 screen that drops down in front of a 16:9 screen.

Hopefully the JVC's focus/zoom memory is accurate enough to switch between both (the distance difference between the screens) w/o additional focus tweaking (I don't have a JVC, so I can't experiment)
post #1823 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil View Post

Goodness, lots of replies since my post... I should clarify I guess...

@Kelvin: My RS46 is mounted about 13' from the screen, putting it about half way through the available zoom for my 115" 2.35:1 screen / 92" at 16:9. I think that is closer than yours if I remember from reading your previous posts. My projector is dead centre as well, but I've noticed that every time a lens memory is called, the projector does move the lens left and right as well as up and down at the start of the movement process. It's almost as if it needs to move the lens to check it's position both horizontally and vertically before it re-locates it. Even if I'm using zero horizontal shift, it still wants to move the lens horizontally left then right just to locate itself.

@fierce_gt: I'd agree that the horizontal shift is always more off than vertical, but both usually require a little adjustment.

@jeahrens: I'm very aware that there are different aspect ratios to content, and I have made up magnetic black velvet masking for 16:9 (1.78:1) content. My screen is 2.35:1, and I'm noticing that quite a few movies are slightly wider than this at 2.39:1 or 2.4:1; I watched Don Jon last night, which is 2.41:1. In these cases though, I don't zoom out further on the screen, I just make do with having small black letterbox bars at the top and bottom of my screen. The sides are still framed accurately to the sides of my screen, with zero overspill and zero gap.

I currently have lens memory settings for 1.78:1, 2.20:1 and 2.35:1, with masking panels, as I said, for 1.78:1 content. I am finding that I'm slightly frustrated by the large amount of content that is 1.85:1, and am considering making up additional masking panels for 1.85:1 and 2.20:1, along with the relevant lens memory for 1.85:1.

I made my masking panels from Elmer's board, and it's difficult to get the large sheets required to make the masking panels locally; it means a trip to San Francisco or Berkley, which I don't have planned for a while. Right now then, I'm making do with letter-boxed 1.85:1 content in a 1.78:1 window, and 2.20:1 pillar-boxed in a 2.35:1 content window.

I didn't mean to imply that you weren't aware of the slight differences in aspect ratios. I was just mentioning it as a reason why I live with very slight over spill. When (if) this winter ever ends I am planning on making some masks.

I also have some slight over spill with 1.85/1.78 content and use one setting. I guess I am just not that much of a stickler. My wife would find that statement hilarious.
post #1824 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

I'm finding that having a 16:9 screen is less of a frustration than it used to be.

I think for myself I would ideally have 2 separate screens, say a 2.35 screen that drops down in front of a 16:9 screen.

Hopefully the JVC's focus/zoom memory is accurate enough to switch between both (the distance difference between the screens) w/o additional focus tweaking (I don't have a JVC, so I can't experiment)

I would think the lens memory would be fine. The second screen wouldn't be much different at all from what those of us with one screen are doing with lens memory unless the distance between screens is significant. The memory seems to be pretty accurate, although the drift Nezil is seeing may be a factor if you are concerned with a slight over spill onto the screen border. With the black level on the JVC I really haven't found a lack of masking to be very distracting running one screen. So as long as you can get the scope screen height to be very close to the desired 16:9 height I'm not really sure 2 screens would be worth it. Masking would make it that much better.
post #1825 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post

I would think the lens memory would be fine. The second screen wouldn't be much different at all from what those of us with one screen are doing with lens memory unless the distance between screens is significant. The memory seems to be pretty accurate, although the drift Nezil is seeing may be a factor if you are concerned with a slight over spill onto the screen border. With the black level on the JVC I really haven't found a lack of masking to be very distracting running one screen. So as long as you can get the scope screen height to be very close to the desired 16:9 height I'm not really sure 2 screens would be worth it. Masking would make it that much better.

I'm thinking it would probably be around 4" to 5" spacing between drop down screens.

More concerned with focus than a little bit of overspill.

If I could get the scope screen height to be close to the 16:9 height, then your right, I wouldn't bother with 2 separate screens wink.gif
post #1826 of 2060
seems like most RS46/x35 users are quite comfortable of the motion scene performance of this pj and not recommend to use CMD function. I just wonder if i upgrade my WD TV stream player to OPPO 103D, it will improve the motion scene performance on my x35/RS46 PJ?

Cheers.
post #1827 of 2060
The Oppo is a great product, and will probably improve picture quality in several noticeable ways.

If the WD TV player only operates at 60 Hz (and I'm not sure about this), then getting a true 24p output will likely improve motion, by making it more accurate. There are only really two ways to play back 24p content at 60 Hz - Perform some frame interpolation, effectively 'changing' the frame-rate from 24p to 60p (sort of what CMD does), or by simply duplicating frames unevenly (resulting in un-even judder).

The JVC DILA chips are known to suffer slightly from motion blur, and though I would say that I know what it is, and can tell that it's not the best projector in that regard, I feel that the other picture quality benefits of the DILA technology far outweigh this slight weakness. The DILA motion blur is only really visible because we're viewing on large screens, it's far far better than motion blur on older LCD TVs. It's important that people realise that this issue is so minor, and has only really been highlighted by reviewers and industry experts that get to look at and play with lots of different projectors every day. Most customers would never even be aware of it, and probably wouldn't care if it were pointed out to them.
Edited by nezil - 2/5/14 at 9:27pm
post #1828 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil View Post

The Oppo is a great product, and will probably improve picture quality in several noticeable ways.

If the WD TV player only operates at 60 Hz (and I'm not sure about this), then getting a true 24p output will likely improve motion, by making it more accurate. There are only really two ways to play back 24p content at 60 Hz - Perform some frame interpolation, effectively 'changing' the frame-rate from 24p to 60p (sort of what CMD does), or by simply duplicating frames unevenly (resulting in un-even judder).

The JVC DILA chips are known to suffer slightly from motion blur, and though I would say that I know what it is, and can tell that it's not the best projector in that regard, I feel that the other picture quality benefits of the DILA technology far outweigh this slight weakness. The DILA motion blur is only really visible because we're viewing on large screens, it's far far better than motion blur on older LCD TVs. It's important that people realise that this issue is so minor, and has only really been highlighted by reviewers and industry experts that get to look at and play with lots of different projectors every day. Most customers would never even be aware of it, and probably wouldn't care if it were pointed out to them.

Thanks for your comment!
The interesting part of WD TV stream media player could do output as 1080P 24HZ or 1080P 60HZ. Which is better for motion blur? Is this 24HZ the same as 24P?
post #1829 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclub View Post

Thanks for your comment!
The interesting part of WD TV stream media player could do output as 1080P 24HZ or 1080P 60HZ. Which is better for motion blur? Is this 24HZ the same as 24P?

Well that's not that easy to answer, because it depends on the implementation used for the 24 to 60 conversion. If that was done in an 'ideal' way (which it probably isn't, there is usually some artifacts present, and the WD TV unit isn't a high end product - no offence intended) then the result would be reduced motion blur, replaced with a 'soap opera' effect, where film content looks more like cheap TV because of the nature of the way it was captured.

99% of movie content is 24/1001 frames per second, and most TV drama is captured in the same way to movies, resulting in that same 24/1001 frame rate. In fact the only content that I think I own that isn't 24/1001 is either user created on a camcorder or digital camera, or some European PAL content. I think it would be fair to say that more than 85% of the content I have is 24/1001 fps.

With that in mind, I would not want to play this back at 60p unless it was absolutely impossible to do otherwise.

One point to be aware of, is that some Blu-ray content is really 24.0p, while most of it is 24/1001p (23.976....). Whatever player you're using should be able to sync it's outputs to cover both of those frame-rates without dropping or repeating frames. I mention this because 24Hz does mean 24p in the case of your player, and most displays and players don't make a distinction between 24 and 24/1001. That's usually not a problem because if the display and player say they can do 24p, they can usually handle both 24 and 24/1001.
post #1830 of 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil View Post

Well that's not that easy to answer, because it depends on the implementation used for the 24 to 60 conversion. If that was done in an 'ideal' way (which it probably isn't, there is usually some artifacts present, and the WD TV unit isn't a high end product - no offence intended) then the result would be reduced motion blur, replaced with a 'soap opera' effect, where film content looks more like cheap TV because of the nature of the way it was captured.

99% of movie content is 24/1001 frames per second, and most TV drama is captured in the same way to movies, resulting in that same 24/1001 frame rate. In fact the only content that I think I own that isn't 24/1001 is either user created on a camcorder or digital camera, or some European PAL content. I think it would be fair to say that more than 85% of the content I have is 24/1001 fps.

With that in mind, I would not want to play this back at 60p unless it was absolutely impossible to do otherwise.

One point to be aware of, is that some Blu-ray content is really 24.0p, while most of it is 24/1001p (23.976....). Whatever player you're using should be able to sync it's outputs to cover both of those frame-rates without dropping or repeating frames. I mention this because 24Hz does mean 24p in the case of your player, and most displays and players don't make a distinction between 24 and 24/1001. That's usually not a problem because if the display and player say they can do 24p, they can usually handle both 24 and 24/1001.

thanks again!!
So based on your comment, 24P and 24HZ is different concept?
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