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Official JVC DLA-RS46 / DLA-X35 owners thread - Page 11

post #301 of 2059
My RS46 does not do that, I just hear the fan.
post #302 of 2059
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

I'm gonna have to jump ship over to the RS4810 thread (I'm swapping my RS46 for an RS4810). It's been fun while it lasted! smile.gif

Out of curiosity, why?
post #303 of 2059
Thanks for the quick feedback guys!
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoguy1 View Post

My RS46 does not do that, I just hear the fan.

yoguy1, were you able to just now check that it wasn't happening, or do you mean it's something you haven noticed?

My projector is shelf mounted so its probably more noticeable for me than if it were ceiling mounted.
Edited by moviefan123 - 1/2/13 at 2:10pm
post #304 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

Out of curiosity, why?
For the multi-point sub-pixel convergence adjustments, CMS, e-shift2, and added QA on the AVAD model (the value of which, I know, is difficult to quantify).

I like my convergence to be spot-on and I'll sacrifice a little bit of sharpness to get it. However, I used the sub-pixel adjustment on my Sony VW60 and never noticed any ill effects -- there's anecdotal evidence both for and against sub-pixel convergence adjustments, but I figure better to have it and not use it than to not have the option.

I have a decent colorimeter and have done the grayscale on my plasma TVs so I think it'd be nice to also be able to calibrate the primary and secondary colors in addition to the grayscale on the projector. I don't see getting into this for a while, but again, it's better to have the option than not.

I was skeptical about e-shift but I've since read some pretty favorable reviews and seen some pretty compelling photos that demonstrate its potential. Plus, I figured that e-shift might help mitigate any sharpness losses that arise from the convergence adjustments.

The added QA gives me a little piece-of-mind that I won't get a dud out of the box, but I know one person who got a 4810 with stuck pixels, so we'll see. FWIW my first RS46 also had stuck pixels (and dodgy focus uniformity) so hopefully I'm done paying my taxes to the QA gods. smile.gif

The 4810 also comes with a 3-year warranty vs. two years for the other RS models. I kept my last projector for almost 5 years, so a longer warranty could come in handy down the road. And, FWIW, the RS4810 doesn't require a 3D firmware update, so I won't have to hassle with that like I eventually would've for my RS46.

In all honesty I originally wanted the RS4810, but I've very recently bought a new 65" plasma, a bunch of new speakers and a subwoofer, and a BDP-103 so I didn't want to push my luck with my wife. As it turns out, the 4810 wasn't a hard sell after all. smile.gif
Edited by Schwa - 1/2/13 at 2:39pm
post #305 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by moviefan123 View Post

Thanks for the quick feedback guys!
yoguy1, were you able to just now check that it wasn't happening, or do you mean it's something you haven noticed?
My projector is shelf mounted so its probably more noticeable for me than if it were ceiling mounted.
My projector is ceiling mounted but pretty close to my seated position (7 foot ceiling). I paid very close attention to the noise level of the projector when I first installed it to make sure noise would not be a problem given how close I sit to it. I can hear no other noise than the fan (very quiet on low setting and fairly noisy on high) when it's running.
post #306 of 2059
Thread Starter 
moviefan123,

No flickering lamp issues here, and I run it in low lamp mode, ceiling mounted.

Also, no noise from the projector either. In fact, the quietness of the fan is quite remarkable, so I imagine that any other noise would be quite obvious and annoying. Is this noise you're hearing the kind of high frequency noise that's borderline audible for older folks (and easily heard by younger kids)? Or does it sound like something else?
post #307 of 2059
I also have the (very mildly) lamp flickering issue. It is almost not visible during movies but you can see it best when putting up a 100IRE pattern (or eg. a white coloured pc desktop background). I run my lamp in high mode for 10 hours but that did not solve the problem. If it keeps having this problem I ll ask for a lamp swap with my dealer.
post #308 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

For the multi-point sub-pixel convergence adjustments, CMS, e-shift2, and added QA on the AVAD model (the value of which, I know, is difficult to quantify).
I like my convergence to be spot-on and I'll sacrifice a little bit of sharpness to get it. However, I used the sub-pixel adjustment on my Sony VW60 and never noticed any ill effects -- there's anecdotal evidence both for and against sub-pixel convergence adjustments, but I figure better to have it and not use it than to not have the option.

There's some discussion on JVC's sub-pixel convergence feature in the RS66 thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1444222/new-jvc-dla-rs66-x95/0_40#post_22735387

While the feature does make convergence patterns look better, it also softens and color-shifts the region that was adjusted. I turned it off after seeing the downside & resolved not to fret about convergence patterns... wink.gif
post #309 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post

There's some discussion on JVC's sub-pixel convergence feature in the RS66 thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1444222/new-jvc-dla-rs66-x95/0_40#post_22735387
While the feature does make convergence patterns look better, it also softens and color-shifts the region that was adjusted. I turned it off after seeing the downside & resolved not to fret about convergence patterns... wink.gif
Understood. Hopefully (touch wood) my 4810's out-of-the-box convergence will be at least as good as my RS46 (which is about 1/3 to 1/2 of a pixel off both horizontally and vertically with red over the whole screen). Any more than that and I might just stick with the RS46. I'm just sensitive to convergence issues and can (just barely) make out convergence errors at my seated position with my RS46. As I mentioned, I used the sub-pixel convergence function to great effect on my old VPL-VW60.
post #310 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by szepi0808 View Post

My problem is the same.
replaces the jvc






Today I got my new rs46.
The problem is the same as the old.mad.gif







+ Chromatic Aberration mad.gifmad.gif
back to jvc
Serial:
Old 167C0033
New 167C0053
post #311 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by szepi0808 View Post

Today I got my new rs46.
The problem is the same as the old.mad.gif






+ Chromatic Aberration mad.gifmad.gif
back to jvc
Serial:
Old 167C0033
New 167C0053

Is this a problem with real world material though? Both my RS40 and RS45 had this and a friends RS40 had it as well. All 3 looked just fine with real world material though and to me this has always been a non issue from that standpoint. This might also be setup related as far as zoom/shift goes which is why some might not be seeing it while others are not.
Edited by Toe - 1/4/13 at 11:55am
post #312 of 2059
@szepi0808 - You should've kept the first one. I bet what you're seeing is a result of the projector's optics and you're either going to have to live with it (seems like very minor issue) or go with something other than JVC. No amount of projector swapping is going to fix it since it seems inherent to the projector's design.
post #313 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

@szepi0808 - You should've kept the first one. I bet what you're seeing is a result of the projector's optics and you're either going to have to live with it (seems like very minor issue) or go with something other than JVC. No amount of projector swapping is going to fix it since it seems inherent to the projector's design.

Was this an issue with your 4810 that you ordered (thought you swapped a 46 for the 4810)?
post #314 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpconrad View Post

Was this an issue with your 4810 that you ordered (thought you swapped a 46 for the 4810)?
I just got the 4810 installed about an hour ago. It's the same as the 46 was with respect to smearing. If I get close to the screen and squint I can barely see it -- but of all the things that could be wrong with a projector that I'd bother exchanging it over this would be about the lowest on the list.

About my 4810 -- focus uniformity is perfect. Bright corners are slightly improved vs. the 46. Convergence in the center of the screen is virtually perfect, but red horizontal convergence gets worse as you go toward the edges of the screen up to a max of about 4/10 to 1/2 pixel off at the extreme edges. Of course, with the 4810, I can use the zone convergence adjustment to fix this, but it's pretty minor. I think what I'm probably seeing is lens effects since the red convergence is off in one direction on one side of the screen and the other direction on the other side of the screen. My 46's convergence was off about 1/3 to 4/10 of a pixel vertically and horizontally over the entire screen so on the whole this is an improvement.

But, this is the big thing (so far) -- 3D is far, FAR improved over my pre-firmware 46. For example, on the 46, ghosting was so bad on the menu titles that I could barely read them. On the 4810, aside from a little bit of flicker, the 3D (and ghosting) is on par with my Panasonic plasma. The point being -- if the 46's firmware update brings its 3D performance up to the level of the 4810, it's a must-have. It's not a subtle difference. At all. FWIW I'm using the JVC 3D RF emitter with the JVC glasses.
post #315 of 2059
Before same installation x30, x3 no problem.


post #316 of 2059
Here you can see very roughly problem.
post #317 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

@szepi0808 - You should've kept the first one. I bet what you're seeing is a result of the projector's optics and you're either going to have to live with it (seems like very minor issue) or go with something other than JVC. No amount of projector swapping is going to fix it since it seems inherent to the projector's design.

Less streaking problem more lens aberration. None of them are good.mad.gif
post #318 of 2059
What test pattern is that? I'll put it on my X35 tomorrow night because I don't think mine is like that at all. Certainly the focus menu looks very clear and sharp on mine, though perhaps it is made worse by the camera?
post #319 of 2059
I think you're simply expecting too much with respect to convergence / lens aberration. The lens aberration you show in your pictures is almost certainly less than half a pixel which I'd wager is well within specs. If you exchange it again don't be surprised if you get something just as bad or worse. If that level of misconvergence / lens aberration bugs you, then you'd be well-served to get a model with fine/zone convergence adjustments so you can fix it.

As far as the streaking goes, if you've already had two X35s that have it, why do you think a third would be any different? JVC claims that the optical engine has been redesigned relative to the last generation, so perhaps whatever changed is contributing to the smearing you're seeing. The bigger question is whether you can notice it from the viewing position, not with your nose pressed against the screen. I'll bet that you can't, and if that's the case, it's not worth worrying about.

I could fix the minor misconvergence on my RS4810 (and probably will once I get around to a full calibration), but I can't see it from my viewing position, so it's not worth the trouble just yet.

Believe me, I understand the desire to have the picture as perfect as possible, but you need to be realistic about your expectations for a ~$3K projector. If you can't notice those problems on regular viewing material and/or from your seat, forget about 'em and move on.
Edited by Schwa - 1/4/13 at 3:07pm
post #320 of 2059
Thanks to Mike at A/V Science (and the UPS guy) I can now join this group. As usual, a great price and service from AVS.

The RS45 thread has a number of suggested starting settings. Are these valid for the RS46, with its new and improved lamp?

I may try calibration after I have some break-in hours on the lamp. If anyone has some good starting settings for the '46, please post them.

Thanks.
post #321 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

What test pattern is that? I'll put it on my X35 tomorrow night because I don't think mine is like that at all. Certainly the focus menu looks very clear and sharp on mine, though perhaps it is made worse by the camera?
Those pictures look like they're out of focus. If that's as good as the focus gets on his projector then he's got bigger problems than that minor streaking.
post #322 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by mraub View Post

Thanks to Mike at A/V Science (and the UPS guy) I can now join this group. As usual, a great price and service from AVS.
The RS45 thread has a number of suggested starting settings. Are these valid for the RS46, with its new and improved lamp?
I may try calibration after I have some break-in hours on the lamp. If anyone has some good starting settings for the '46, please post them.
Thanks.

Before I calibrated mine, I used the following settings. They were pretty good, but slightly too warm when I measured it (which actually meant I gained brightness after calibration).

Standard colour space,
6500K
Custom gamma set to 2.3
All the other controls were set to 0 (HDMI superwhite)
Sharpness 2, detail 0 (anything higher caused ringing or moire on patterns).
Iris -15 for 16:9 and about -9 for 2.35:1 but this will vary according to screen size/gain/personal taste.
post #323 of 2059
Can anyone comment on the convergence of my x35.Here are some pics.Must admit not sure what i should be looking for.




post #324 of 2059
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

...
But, this is the big thing (so far) -- 3D is far, FAR improved over my pre-firmware 46. For example, on the 46, ghosting was so bad on the menu titles that I could barely read them. On the 4810, aside from a little bit of flicker, the 3D (and ghosting) is on par with my Panasonic plasma. The point being -- if the 46's firmware update brings its 3D performance up to the level of the 4810, it's a must-have. It's not a subtle difference. At all. FWIW I'm using the JVC 3D RF emitter with the JVC glasses.

Schwa, I know you're probably going to abandon wink.gif us RS46 folks soon since you upgraded to the RS4810 but I was wondering if you can expand on the improved 3D performance of your 4810.

For instance, if you increased the crosstalk setting to +8 on the 4810, do you think it still has equivalent brightness to the RS46?

Also, I have tried a crosstalk setting of -8 on my prefirmware X35 to reduce ghosting ... by your comments, do you feel that RS4810 ghosting (at +8) is still significantly better than prefirmware RS46 (at -8)?

Thanks for your contributions to this thread. (And have fun with that new PJ smile.gif)
post #325 of 2059
The eyes make poor light meters.. he would have to see them in an A/B setup.

The RS4810 is ~ 120 lumens shy of the RS46 when the CT controls are set to 8 (maximum). It's about 300+ lumens dimmer with CT @ 0 (factory setting).

While the ghosting is definitely reduced, the image looks a bit more flat and a bit less detailed. These pictures are a good example of the difference. Identical source, direct A/B comparison.

there is a trade-off between the light / crosstalk / overall PQ.

RS46 is on top (pre-firmware)

3D-shootout13.jpg

3D-shootout14.jpg

3D-shootout17.jpg

3D-shootout18.jpg
post #326 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

Schwa, I know you're probably going to abandon wink.gif us RS46 folks soon since you upgraded to the RS4810 but I was wondering if you can expand on the improved 3D performance of your 4810.
For instance, if you increased the crosstalk setting to +8 on the 4810, do you think it still has equivalent brightness to the RS46?
Also, I have tried a crosstalk setting of -8 on my prefirmware X35 to reduce ghosting ... by your comments, do you feel that RS4810 ghosting (at +8) is still significantly better than prefirmware RS46 (at -8)?
Thanks for your contributions to this thread. (And have fun with that new PJ smile.gif)
Nope, not going to abandon you guys (there's not a whole lot of action in the 4810 thread anyway)!

Unfortunately I've boxed up my RS46 so can't run any additional 3D comparisons with it and honestly can't comment on the brightness without a direct A/B comparison. However, I did try all of the different crosstalk reduction settings (from -8 to +8) while I had it. I found that while a certain crosstalk setting might've improved crosstalk performance in a specific situation, that same setting might reduce crosstalk performance in another situation. Regardless of the crosstalk setting on the RS46 I always found the crosstalk very objectionable -- especially in high-contrast areas. Seriously, it was almost unwatchable.

In contrast, I've only tried my RS4810 at its default crosstalk setting of 0. Its crosstalk performance is so vastly superior to what I experienced on my RS46, regardless of crosstalk setting, that I wonder if there wasn't something wrong with the RS46 (although i doubt it). If the firmware upgrade brings the RS46's 3D to the level of my RS4810, it's simply a required update IMHO.

From reading zombie's comparisons of the pre-firmware RS46 to the RS4810 I came away with the impression that the firmware upgrade wouldn't really do that much. That still might be true (since I haven't seen an upgraded RS46 I can't say), but he postulates that the upgrading the firmware on the RS46 should make it behave like the RS4810, and if that's true, then the upgrade needs to be done. It's as simple as that IMHO. There might be not-so-subtle brightness differences between the pre-firmware RS46 and the RS4810, but the crosstalk performance of the 4810 is so vastly superior that I personally couldn't care less about brightness.

I'm not one to throw around the phrase "night and day difference" very often because it's so often used for before/after scenarios where the actual difference is subtle at best. In this case, however, there really was a night and day difference. 3D crosstalk performance went from practically unwatchable to actually pretty pleasing. Aside from the flicker (which isn't really that bad), the RS4810 seems on par with my Panasonic plasma crosstalk-wise.

FWIW I'm running a Carada 16:9 110" diagonal screen with 1.4 gain. My throw distance is a little over 12 feet so I'm using a pretty high zoom setting. And, again, I'm using the JVC RF emitter and the JVC glasses. This may or may not be a significant reason for the differences between zombie's and my observations.
Edited by Schwa - 1/4/13 at 3:59pm
post #327 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by moviefan123 View Post

Just posted this in the shoot out thread but thought it makes more sense to be here... Sorry for the double post.
I recently received an X35 (RS46).Very happy overall, however I can hear a fairly high pitched squeaking/buzzing noise which is distracting in quiet scenes. It's not that loud but its pitch makes it noticeable.
At first I thought it was the fan, but when powering on the noise actually seems to start slightly before the fan kicks in. When powering of it seems to stop before he fans stop.
Was hoping to get some feedback on whether this is normal and what it could be? If anyone has time to check, it's easy to check if you get close and listen to the right and left vents. Do you hear anything other than the fan?
I'm also seeing some very slight flickering on solid screens, such as the blue no-signal screen. So I'm starting to think it could be the lamp?
Would appreciate any feedback. Also, my unit has been updated to the latest switcher version and I have the RF glasses.

Can you test something for me? Feed your projector a 1080p60 signal. I don't know what kind of Blu-ray player you have but most of them have home screens that are 1080p60. Note if you hear the buzz. Now play a Blu-ray at 1080p24 and see what it does for the buzz. PM me if you can as I don't always check all the threads.
post #328 of 2059
Thanks, I'll start there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Before I calibrated mine, I used the following settings. They were pretty good, but slightly too warm when I measured it (which actually meant I gained brightness after calibration).
Standard colour space,
6500K
Custom gamma set to 2.3
All the other controls were set to 0 (HDMI superwhite)
Sharpness 2, detail 0 (anything higher caused ringing or moire on patterns).
Iris -15 for 16:9 and about -9 for 2.35:1 but this will vary according to screen size/gain/personal taste.
post #329 of 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Can you test something for me? Feed your projector a 1080p60 signal. I don't know what kind of Blu-ray player you have but most of them have home screens that are 1080p60. Note if you hear the buzz. Now play a Blu-ray at 1080p24 and see what it does for the buzz. PM me if you can as I don't always check all the threads.
@moviefan123 - I just hooked up my new RS4810 today and noticed the high-pitched squealing/buzzing on this projector too. That's three for three JVCs that have done it. IIRC it does change pitch and/or volume depending on the format of the input signal as Kris implies, but I'll have to check to see which signals cause the squealing the most. I really never paid the noise much attention because I've heard it on three JVCs and my Sony VW60 before that, and since you can only really hear it when you're in front of the projector (since the noise seems to come out of the projector's vents), and my projector is overhead when I'm watching a movie, I never hear the noise during actual projector use.
post #330 of 2059
I am only hearing it with a 1080p60 signal. If I do 1080p24 it goes away completely. You can also hear it change pitch and volume during HDMI handshakes when it hasn't figured out what it is going to show.
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