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Official JVC DLA-RS46 / DLA-X35 owners thread - Page 18

post #511 of 798
Glad you are enjoying your new RS46. There is nothing like the joy of a new projector !!

I don't think I'd risk the possibility of shipping damage to my projector for the small improvement the firmware update will give. But I'm not a 3D fan anyway - YMMV !!
post #512 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

I must say I am very glad I got rid of the RS40 and it's endless bulb drama(I went through 2 bulb deaths, and JVC informed me the next time would require sending it in for service).

Are you sure that bulb is not a problem anymore with the new jvc ?
post #513 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sona Kakoo View Post

Are you sure that bulb is not a problem anymore with the new jvc ?

Well it's very premature to say so, however, I've been measuring mine siince new and it's only dropped 5-7% at 120 hours. RonF has an RS4810 and he's got many more hours (300 or so) and he has barely dropped any output either, so it's considerably better than my old HD350 was since that dropped 20% in the first 100 hours.
post #514 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sona Kakoo View Post

Are you sure that bulb is not a problem anymore with the new jvc ?

A little early, but zero issues with any of the lamps so far this year and we sold a lot of JVC projectors. smile.gif
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post #515 of 798
Not to mention their using a different bulb tech, and they offer the best bulb warranty in the business.
post #516 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

A little early, but zero issues with any of the lamps so far this year and we sold a lot of JVC projectors. smile.gif

Last year's RS45 was good for lamps too?
post #517 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Glad you are enjoying your new RS46. There is nothing like the joy of a new projector !!

I don't think I'd risk the possibility of shipping damage to my projector for the small improvement the firmware update will give. But I'm not a 3D fan anyway - YMMV !!

The new firmware improves dramatically the 3D.
post #518 of 798
Thread Starter 
I just got a lux meter so that I can monitor the lamp on mine. One thing I noticed is that if I take measurements at the screen, the right hand of the screen is about 15% dimmer with the lux meter than the middle and left side. Note: this is NOT noticeable with movie viewing, only with the meter and a 100% white video projection. The screen is 100" at 11'. The left side is also dimmer than the centre, but only by < 5%.

Has anybody else noticed this and/or can explain this outcome?
Edited by Dragon Reborn - 2/12/13 at 4:29am
post #519 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

A little early, but zero issues with any of the lamps so far this year and we sold a lot of JVC projectors. smile.gif
Mike since JVC does not sell pjs "online" does this not apply if I call you directly and make a purchase? Sorry for the aside but I'm confused about this.
post #520 of 798
Thread Starter 
For those that like to number crunch: here we go, oh oh ohhhhh ...




3D Picture Mode, default settings except for low lamp power, crosstalk 0:
745 lumens (pre)
605 lumens (post)

3D Picture Mode, default settings except for low lamp power, crosstalk 8:
756 lumens (post)

---

3D Picture Mode, default settings (high lamp), crosstalk 0:
853 lumens (post)

3D Picture Mode, default settings (high lamp), crosstalk 8:
1026 lumens (post)




My setup: 100" screen at 11' (2.75 square metres), projector lens is 11.5" above the screen top, horizontally centred.
Measurements with the lux meter were averaged across 9 points at the screen. If I only averaged 3 readings (top-centre, centre, and bottom-centre), the above lumen results were averaging a consistent 6% higher.

Pre-firmware lamp hours, measurements done @ 42 hours
Post-firmware lamp hours, measurements done @ 55 hours





Thanks to Zombie10k for the tips. Similar to his findings with his 4810, there was a 20-25% shift in lumens when going from crosstalk 0 to 8. And pre-firmware at crosstalk 0 = post-firmware at crosstalk 8.

My impression while watching re-watching chapter 2 of Prometheus 3D (outdoor daytime scene at the Isle of Sky): much less ghosting in post-firmware crosstalk 8 than pre-firmware, much more enjoyable and less distracting, but still noticeable if you know what to look for. And at crosstalk 0, no distracting ghosting. It's not perfect, but if I watched many 3D movies, it'd be worth the upgrade in my opinion.
post #521 of 798
So this doesn't seem to support JVC's claim that firmware change is has minimal effect.
post #522 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

Last year's RS45 was good for lamps too?

Last year's version 3 lamp seems to be pretty good. I have a version 2 in my RS45 and have not had any issues. I have not checked lamp hours in a while. I suspect that I am between 700 and 800 hours. Still on low lamp with the iris closed 3/4's of the way. Screen is 0.85 gain and 9' wide scope. I do use an A-lens, so I pick up some brightness from it.
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post #523 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

Mike since JVC does not sell pjs "online" does this not apply if I call you directly and make a purchase? Sorry for the aside but I'm confused about this.

Sent you a PM. smile.gif
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post #524 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

I just got a lux meter so that I can monitor the lamp on mine. One thing I noticed is that if I take measurements at the screen, the right hand of the screen is about 15% dimmer with the lux meter than the middle and left side. Note: this is NOT noticeable with movie viewing, only with the meter and a 100% white video projection. The screen is 100" at 11'. The left side is also dimmer than the centre, but only by < 5%.

Has anybody else noticed this and/or can explain this outcome?

Same as mine, it was around 10-12% drop along the right hand side.
post #525 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

For those that like to number crunch: here we go, oh oh ohhhhh ...




3D Picture Mode, default settings except for low lamp power, crosstalk 0:
745 lumens (pre)
605 lumens (post)

3D Picture Mode, default settings except for low lamp power, crosstalk 8:
756 lumens (post)

---

3D Picture Mode, default settings (high lamp), crosstalk 0:
853 lumens (post)

3D Picture Mode, default settings (high lamp), crosstalk 8:
1026 lumens (post)




My setup: 100" screen at 11' (2.75 square metres), projector lens is 11.5" above the screen top, horizontally centred.
Measurements with the lux meter were averaged across 9 points at the screen. If I only averaged 3 readings (top-centre, centre, and bottom-centre), the above lumen results were averaging a consistent 6% higher.

Pre-firmware lamp hours, measurements done @ 42 hours
Post-firmware lamp hours, measurements done @ 55 hours





Thanks to Zombie10k for the tips. Similar to his findings with his 4810, there was a 20-25% shift in lumens when going from crosstalk 0 to 8. And pre-firmware at crosstalk 0 = post-firmware at crosstalk 8.

My impression while watching re-watching chapter 2 of Prometheus 3D (outdoor daytime scene at the Isle of Sky): much less ghosting in post-firmware crosstalk 8 than pre-firmware, much more enjoyable and less distracting, but still noticeable if you know what to look for. And at crosstalk 0, no distracting ghosting. It's not perfect, but if I watched many 3D movies, it'd be worth the upgrade in my opinion.

Oh man THANK YOU! So there is officially no reason not to do the update, outside of shipping risk, and thats what insurance is for.
post #526 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Oh man THANK YOU! So there is officially no reason not to do the update, outside of shipping risk, and thats what insurance is for.

I have to check with Dragon to make sure he was in full frame packed mode. He's using a 3D Demo disk that I sent along for measuring the brightness. The #'s don't match what we saw in the german review, so this is a little confusing.

I still have the pre firmware 46 I used in the reviews, I'm going to check into getting it updated so we can get a reference how it compares to the 4810.
post #527 of 798
That would be great! I don't plan on sending mine in until this season of The Walking Dead is over.
post #528 of 798
Well I got the emitter today and played around with the 3D, specifically with Resident Evil Retribution. It has some of the worst crosstalk of any movie. The 3D is brighter than the RS40 ever was, though that may be due to the Samsung glasses which are a lighter shade than JVCs. The crosstalk does seem to be just as bad as ever though. The parallax adjustment is frustrating, you can adjust the crosstalk out of one shot and make it horrible the next shot, like whack-a-mole, best just leaving it in the middle. The crosstalk adjustment just makes the image brighter and darker, though not changing the crosstalk much at all. Lowering the contrast to -35 does greatly reduce but at a massive cost to the brightness.

Zombie, I hope you do send yours in to see what difference it makes.
post #529 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

I just got a lux meter so that I can monitor the lamp on mine. One thing I noticed is that if I take measurements at the screen, the right hand of the screen is about 15% dimmer with the lux meter than the middle and left side. Note: this is NOT noticeable with movie viewing, only with the meter and a 100% white video projection. The screen is 100" at 11'. The left side is also dimmer than the centre, but only by < 5%.

Has anybody else noticed this and/or can explain this outcome?


I have an RS-55, with the latest (?) bulb (-003 with flapper) and regularly check the output with a light meter. Ceiling mounted, 11' wide screen. I also find the left side is brighter than the right. The brightest area is left of center and above center.

Paul
post #530 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Well I got the emitter today and played around with the 3D, specifically with Resident Evil Retribution. It has some of the worst crosstalk of any movie. The 3D is brighter than the RS40 ever was, though that may be due to the Samsung glasses which are a lighter shade than JVCs. The crosstalk does seem to be just as bad as ever though. The parallax adjustment is frustrating, you can adjust the crosstalk out of one shot and make it horrible the next shot, like whack-a-mole, best just leaving it in the middle. The crosstalk adjustment just makes the image brighter and darker, though not changing the crosstalk much at all. Lowering the contrast to -35 does greatly reduce but at a massive cost to the brightness.

Zombie, I hope you do send yours in to see what difference it makes.

I hope the walking dead will finish up soon then because I'm curious to hear what you believe the brightness difference will be post-upgrade. wink.gif
Especially since you have reduced contrast and can subjectively compare the post-upgrade crosstalk/brightness versus the pre-upgrade crosstalk/brightness with and without reduced contrast.
It would be even sweeter if you were able to take some measurements as well.

Dragon Reborn's numbers are a great indication of what is going on with the upgrade, but unfortunately he did not take any brightness measurements pre-upgrade with reduced contrast.
I would be interested to see if a reduced contrast setting would have the same effect on the lumen output as the FW upgrade.
post #531 of 798
Has anyone viewed a RS45 and the RS46 and care to comment on any differences? Or direct me to a thread?
post #532 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

Has anyone viewed a RS45 and the RS46 and care to comment on any differences? Or direct me to a thread?

Try this but it ins german so you'll have to translate:

http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=94&thread=12294&postID=3708#3708

The guy compares his x30 to the new x35. I just got my x35 two days ago and it's way better than my Infocus 8604 ;-)
post #533 of 798
Anyone know of any JVC dealers in the Dallas, TX area that have the RS46/X35 setup for demo? Or (and yes I do feel a little strange asking this), are there any owners that would be willing to show off their setup?

It's funny, based on everything I've read, if the decision came down to picture quality, features, etc, I don't think I'd have any problems buying the JVC sight unseen. But the report of a "loud fan" in high lamp mode is what is single biggest issue holding me back (with not as good shadow detail probably a close second). The noise probably shouldn't be that big of a deal, but I know that on my Optoma H77 (which is actually pretty quiet) the fan noise was occasionally audible during a quiet scene of a movie and it totally ruins it for me. I'm sure its because I want me setup to be "perfect" and so anything that makes me realize that it isn't (and never will be) is just distracting from the movie. Reasonable? Of course not. Reality? Unfortunately...

While I do get that there will always be compromises for PJs in this price range, I honestly can't understand how a $3k+ home theater PJ can ever have a "loud fan" these days. Surely the higher end JVCs aren't "loud", and Sony obviously is able to keep the noise down so it doesn't seem unreasonable at this price point. Surely JVC didn't say, "hmm, lets make the 'cheap' projector in the lineup loud to try to get people to spend an extra $1k+".
post #534 of 798
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpag2000 View Post

Anyone know of any JVC dealers in the Dallas, TX area that have the RS46/X35 setup for demo? Or (and yes I do feel a little strange asking this), are there any owners that would be willing to show off their setup?

It's funny, based on everything I've read, if the decision came down to picture quality, features, etc, I don't think I'd have any problems buying the JVC sight unseen. But the report of a "loud fan" in high lamp mode is what is single biggest issue holding me back (with not as good shadow detail probably a close second). The noise probably shouldn't be that big of a deal, but I know that on my Optoma H77 (which is actually pretty quiet) the fan noise was occasionally audible during a quiet scene of a movie and it totally ruins it for me. I'm sure its because I want me setup to be "perfect" and so anything that makes me realize that it isn't (and never will be) is just distracting from the movie. Reasonable? Of course not. Reality? Unfortunately...

While I do get that there will always be compromises for PJs in this price range, I honestly can't understand how a $3k+ home theater PJ can ever have a "loud fan" these days. Surely the higher end JVCs aren't "loud", and Sony obviously is able to keep the noise down so it doesn't seem unreasonable at this price point. Surely JVC didn't say, "hmm, lets make the 'cheap' projector in the lineup loud to try to get people to spend an extra $1k+".

Personally, I don't like the JVC high lamp noise ... it's too loud. But the projector is also 3' directly over my head. Since I don't need the extra lumens for my preference, i don't expect to ever put it in high lamp mode, even for 3D. It is bright enough for me in low lamp mode and I would guess that it's bright enough in 2D for most people as long as you have a suitable room/setup.
post #535 of 798
Every time I read the forum and set my mind on a projector; I hear something bad.mad.gif

First I decided on the Panny 8000 after reading "great" reviews and then suddenly discussions about color uniformity started popping up.

Now JVC has a noise issues...Hmmmm. Does that mean there is no projector in the 3K range that won't piss pp off tongue.gif
post #536 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

Every time I read the forum and set my mind on a projector; I hear something bad.mad.gif

First I decided on the Panny 8000 after reading "great" reviews and then suddenly discussions about color uniformity started popping up.

Now JVC has a noise issues...Hmmmm. Does that mean there is no projector in the 3K range that won't piss pp off tongue.gif

Every projector has some issue or area for improvement: Even the VW1000ES isn't perfect and the super high end models in the hundreds of thousands could still have a lower black level so you just have to pick your poison really. Having said that I prefer not to be poisoned by a Panasonic projector, but that's just me*.

* I've had 3 before I found the antidote. wink.gif


EDIT: My X35 is loud in high lamp mode, but since I don't need over half the aperture open even in low lamp, then this isn't a problem for me. FWIW after 130 hours the lamp has barely dimmed at all so the new lamp design (and matching power supply) seems to be working well.
post #537 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Every projector has some issue or area for improvement: Even the VW1000ES isn't perfect and the super high end models in the hundreds of thousands could still have a lower black level so you just have to pick your poison really. Having said that I prefer not to be poisoned by a Panasonic projector, but that's just me*.

* I've had 3 before I found the antidote. wink.gif


EDIT: My X35 is loud in high lamp mode, but since I don't need over half the aperture open even in low lamp, then this isn't a problem for me. FWIW after 130 hours the lamp has barely dimmed at all so the new lamp design (and matching power supply) seems to be working well.

..............and people on the other thread are swearing by the Panny 8000. You're damn right on the "pick your poison" part. biggrin.gif Just bite the bullet and enjoy and if the picture quality is not up to expectation, drink one extra beer and all the color uniformity, noise, ghosting, screen door, pin cushion effects will go away. LOL
post #538 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

Every time I read the forum and set my mind on a projector; I hear something bad.mad.gif

First I decided on the Panny 8000 after reading "great" reviews and then suddenly discussions about color uniformity started popping up.

Now JVC has a noise issues...Hmmmm. Does that mean there is no projector in the 3K range that won't piss pp off tongue.gif

You're absolutely right. I blame the forums, for all my worries! wink.gif

Seriously, I think I'm just going to stop worrying about modes I'll probably only use once in a blue moon and just buy the RS46. It should be a considerable upgrade from the projector I had/have been using (my 7 year old Optoma H77).
post #539 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

..............and people on the other thread are swearing by the Panny 8000. You're damn right on the "pick your poison" part. biggrin.gif Just bite the bullet and enjoy and if the picture quality is not up to expectation, drink one extra beer and all the color uniformity, noise, ghosting, screen door, pin cushion effects will go away. LOL

Just incase you're still wondering, have a read of this post by Zombie10K I think his last paragraph says it all really and yet again confirms that the black levels with dynamic iris still can't match JVC despite the figures Panasonic claim on their adverts:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Panasonic 8000 - I had a chance to spend more time with the Panasonic 8000.

For those looking for a deep dive, this is an excellent review that I agree with many of their points. A+ for David to discuss 3D calibration which is often overlooked in the various reviews.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-pt-at6000-201211052339.htm?page=Picture Quality


White field uniformity - some notes from their review that I saw as well on this copy.

The only real negative we could find – other than the lack of manual control over the iris – related to white field uniformity. On our unit, when we ran full-screen greyscale test patterns, there were cases where the right side of the image was visibly redder than the left. In real-world usage, that typically wasn’t a problem with colour film material, but we had a look at Warners’ new Blu-ray release of Hitchcock’s Strangers On A Train and did sometimes see some unwanted tinges creeping into the black and white visuals.


During calibration, this is an issue which becomes obvious once you hit ~70 IRE. There is poor color uniformity in this particular copy. It's been mentioned in the review above and also by a number of 8000 owners. This is going to vary between different samples, but it's talked about too often to think the next copy is going to be day/night better.

To test it, I played Roy Orbison's 'Black and White Night'. I could see some of the red color leaking into the image from the top. Also during a number of scenes in the Art of Flight. I am not happy to see this, I find it distracting on my HP screen. The 5020 has a bit of white field distortion, but it's very minor in comparison.

Color Calibration - This was a challenge since none of the default modes are the best starting point. The REC 709 is definitely not REC 709 / D65. The Red was even lower than the sample in the review above, with high dE's from the factory. Red was in the ~80% range and required large changes with green and blue to compensate. I also saw a similar issue with heavy green saturation that needed to be tamed.

This projector needed more 'work' to get a good calibration than any of the other models so far, with the HW50 being on the opposite end (gamma is usually near perfect, good R709 color space and relatively mild tweaks for greyscale tuneup).

The CMS is also a pain to use. It works, but I much prefer the Epson in comparison.

Post Calibration - It looks good overall once calibrated, but the black floor is not as good as the Epson 5020 or the HW50. This is noticeable on my 142" 2.8HP. It reminds me of the Sony HW30 - good, but not great compared to the other models. On the HW50, this improved quite a bit and there is no doubt the HW50 has better appearing contrast and black level performance in comparison to the Panasonic. Same thing with the 5020 which stands side by side with the HW50 in this area.

3D impressions - I watched a number of my favorite 3D clips, it looks fairly bright but I haven't measure it yet. The color is off by a mile in 3D mode and needs a heavy calibration for the colors in 3D to look correct. Ghosting with the glasses set to the 'normal' mode was pretty good overall although you could easily see the outline of the tree in Grand Canyon.

Also, flicker performance is as good on the Panasonic 8000 as it is on the Epson 5020. This makes sense since both use the 480hz panels. The image overall is very solid for those sensitive to flicker.

I still have more to look at with this projector, but those are some early first impressions. It has very nice build quality overall for this price range, but it's the PQ that counts. I see the RS46, HW50 and 5020 trumping this model in most areas of comparison.

The JVC RS55 eats the 8000 for breakfast, lunch and dinner for 2D PQ. Smooth screen would not be mistaken for e-shift 1. The JVC also has near pefect white field performance and signficantly better contrast / black levels.
post #540 of 798
I still wonder what the RS55 eats for a snack now that I have been told what it eats for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Edited by mark haflich - 2/17/13 at 6:52am
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