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post #31 of 105
12/3/12 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjruby View Post

I believe that is a California state law.
http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=civ&group=01001-02000&file=1792-1795.8
1793.03. (a) Every manufacturer making an express warranty with
respect to an electronic or appliance product described in
subdivision (h), (i), (j), or (k) of Section 9801 of the Business and
Professions Code, with a wholesale price to the retailer of not less
than fifty dollars ($50) and not more than ninety-nine dollars and
ninety-nine cents ($99.99), shall make available to service and
repair facilities sufficient service literature and functional parts
to effect the repair of a product for at least three years after the
date a product model or type was manufactured, regardless of whether
the three-year period exceeds the warranty period for the product.
(b) Every manufacturer making an express warranty with respect to
an electronic or appliance product described in subdivision (h), (i),
(j), or (k) of Section 9801 of the Business and Professions Code,
with a wholesale price to the retailer of one hundred dollars ($100)
or more, shall make available to service and repair facilities
sufficient service literature and functional parts to effect the
repair of a product for at least seven years after the date a product
model or type was manufactured, regardless of whether the seven-year
period exceeds the warranty period for the product
I believe that there are more states with similar laws with different time periods..
I don't believe there is a Federal law. If there is, please provide a link to it.

all well and good, but not happening in real life. I work at a major retailer and several times a month process Protection Agreement replacements of sets as little as 1 1/2 years old that are being replaced due to no parts availability.

Mits, by all indications, has been top notch as far as taking care of their customers so may not have parts problems, but don't trust a law to protect you.
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post #32 of 105
12/4/12 at 1:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

I don't know this as a fact. But I would bet they plan to play around with LPD technology for awhile. That technology is much better and simpler than DLP, Plasma or LED/LCD. It is more like CRT/OLED/SED in color and image fidelity & resolution. It is light years ahead of all of the technologies in terms of energy efficiency. It is scalable from 50 inches to over 500+ inches without any loss of details, image fidelity, resolution artifacts and etc. It can be executed in single panels or multi panels for an infinite range of display purposes. It can handle any resolution grade...even beyond 8k x 4k. It can be developed to work on a single frame surface as thin as a wall screen or as thick as the 25" seamless panels PRYSM is using right now. And it is the future of big screen cinema and HT IMO.
I do know that Mitsu is one of the companies negotiating with PRYSM...http://www.prysm.com ...for usage or partnership rights on this technology. Who knows...they may even be buying out the new startup to lock down the technology. Because it sure fits like a hand in glove with Mitsu's announced strategy for exiting DLP. Meaning...focus on projection and large business/signage displays. It is derivative of CRT & Plasma and has zero burn-in risks or RBE effects associated with DLP. LPD has all of the benefits of CRT/Plasma/OLED/DLP with none of the risks and penalties. With LPD...all Mitsu would theoretically need to do would be to project laser lights (front or rear)...(long or short throw)... on a polarized screen embedded with the the phosphors to produce an OLED/Plasma/CRT grade image. Mitsu could segment its business with very high grade DLP projection in an inexpensive format along with much higher end Laser Phosphor projection for more demanding and videophile driven applications.
I for one really hope they don't pursue LPD that way. I don't want to see this technology limited by nose bleed level high prices. I have seen the technology up close at the CES. It is breathtaking, And that was a 200+" LPD wall! There was no picture washout on any angle I viewed the display from. I only saw it in 2D. And it was so lifelike...I can only imagine what 3D would be like. The picture quality was stunning and so real...I felt like one could just step into the window and be part of it. I've never experienced HDTV technology like that before or since (2010). Hands down better picture than any of the techs I and practically everyone else saw at that show (based on their comments and my conversations with several people there).
So I say R.I.P...RPDLP. Bring on LPD now! I hope that is what Mitsubishi is doing here. I suspect we'll hear a lot more about this in 2013.

Wipes tears away! really! I was wondering when I might hear something on LPD again, As you say it does seem like a brilliant stratagem if that's what they may be planning, I plan to go projector if not, but for now my 73738 is only a year and a half old with a new light engine installed in March for a flickering lamp that seems to still be going strong at 3850 hrs on eco setting, but it does flicker ever so often momentarily, cool thing is they sent out a new lamp as well. I do plan to get the extended warranty and get 2 more bulbs for the life of the set as it will be the last RPTV for me.

Better to have known rptv than not have known rptv at all!
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post #33 of 105
12/4/12 at 2:29am
Sucks to hear that RPTV is indeed gone. I always liked the picture they produced and thought that if I ever had a dedicated "theater room," a DLP RPTV would be the definite way to go -- really natural looking image and excellent 3D Performance. I guess no one can say that they didn't see it coming, though. Still a bummer.
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post #34 of 105
12/4/12 at 3:51am
Quote:
LPD has all of the benefits of CRT/Plasma/OLED/DLP with none of the risks and penalties.
From what I saw Prysm LPD had drawback of intense "halation" / "scattering" effect , just like direct view CRT-s...
Edited by gain3 - 12/4/12 at 3:57am
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post #35 of 105
12/4/12 at 5:56am
So i wonder what Mits will have on display at CES Next Month......hmmmmm

I totally love my 92840
I prefer to watch over my 2012 Sharp 60 inch Crappy LED TV

Sad Day Mits
Sad Day
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post #36 of 105
12/4/12 at 8:14am
I'm loving my 92842 and just hope that Mits keeps the support and bulbs available without resistance for many years to come. I need time to save up for my next purchase of a 100+" display. wink.gif
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post #37 of 105
12/5/12 at 10:40pm
I just ordered at 82742 so I about crapped when I found this thread but am not really worried any more. It will only be used for movie's or sports or rock concert DVD's. No BS kid programs or for wifey to LISTEN to reruns of Everybody Loves Raymond. Its mine. I had actually wrote off DLP's a long time ago and saw the Frys add yesterday for the 73" @ $799........oh but wait its out of stock........of course. But it got me looking and the "replace the bulb" and you have a new TV logic appealed to me. The size for money appealed to me and the other advantages brought me back to a technology I wrote off a long time ago. As well as these are not the same things I was selling yrs ago. I have been wanting a monster to replace my 55" Vizio LED and an 82" seems perfect. Wifey does'nt even know.......boy will she be shocked when she sees it sitting there when she gets home from work LOL. Got the Mitsu stand for it as well.........cant wait. Whats this crap about buying a color wheel though? I did not buy an extended warranty. I've always thought them to be a waste of $$$$$$ is there something about Mitsu DLP's that warrant getting a 3 yr warranty for a TV seeing limited specific use?

I still have a 1024x1024 42" Hitachi Plasma Ultravision Director Series sitting above the bar picture still looks new. 2006 model, moved it to a secondary spot years ago to save it. Gets turned on 4 times a year lol.
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post #38 of 105
12/6/12 at 8:40am
The lamps most likely will be available for several years, Mitsubishi is not going out of business, just out of Rear Projection. The same company will still sell front video projectors and home theater projectors so they will still be there to assist in support of the Rear Projection. As for the color wheel, Mitsubishi has an extremely low failure rate on color wheels. Much lower than some of the previous competitors.
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post #39 of 105
12/6/12 at 9:19am
Sweet what I wanted to hear. I dont want to buy a color wheel if there's a 2% chance it will go out and have it sitting there gathering dust for no reason. I'll wait on a bulb for a while too.
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post #40 of 105
12/6/12 at 9:41am
That is sad news but not really surprising other than by freight I don't think there is anywhere locally I could have gotten another new DLP. Best stopped carrying them years ago the few other retailers in the area that may have carried them don't or are out of business. I'll keep my 09 Mit's for as long as it last the hours on it are low mostly used weekends for sports and an occasional movie, I still get compliments of how good the PQ is. Plasma and LED (meh) if push came to shove I'd take plasma over LED but a calibrated 1080P DLP has PQ that is hard to beat and best yet great bang for the buck. No more Mit's RPTV's is sad news indeed. I have a BR player that is 3D compatible with my Mit's guess I'd better buy those DLP link glasses I've been putting off getting.
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post #41 of 105
12/12/12 at 3:59pm
Panasonic, Sharp and Mit. are going off the TV market because the economy around the world. In the A/C business is the same, Carrier is been sold five times and so is Armstrong, Reem, Rood, Trane and the last American Company A/C all made here in Texas -Goodman- has been sold to a Japanese Company. So The ? is Were is the Money. The same world, the same people, the same dollar. What is happening.
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post #42 of 105
12/12/12 at 7:04pm
Panasonic is getting out of the TV business?
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post #43 of 105
12/16/12 at 1:49pm
Plasma won't be around too much longer and OLED costs trillions and won't be in large sizes for a good long while.

If you like rear projection then buy one of the last ones before they're gone.

We're moving to the New World Order of LCD that sucks!

What a horror story!
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post #44 of 105
12/16/12 at 4:55pm
Artwood, what's your thinking regarding why plasma won't be around much longer? Cost to manufacture vis-a-vis a declining number of people buying them over LCD (despite some [minor?] plasma cost decreases)?
Edited by Paul.R.S - 12/17/12 at 6:37am
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post #45 of 105
12/17/12 at 4:47am
Paul.R.S; good question. Artwood; you know this how??
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post #46 of 105
12/17/12 at 1:49pm
I know that plasma won't be here much longer because I read posts by people here at AVS who have posted in thousands of times and have in the past been quite reliable.

Now we can sit around WISHING that plasma isn't on the way out in the next 1 to three years

just like people wished that rear projection and DLP wouldn't be out

just like they wished that sony's SXRD wouldn't be ojust like they wished that Fujitsu wouldn't be out

just like they WISHED that Pioneer Kuros wouldn't be out!

FACE IT people--we are headed to a future where there will only be LCD that SUCKS OR

OLED that is rinky-dink sized and costs TRILLIONS!

Why rindky dink size? If Sharp goes out of business--and they're hanging on by a thread--how BIG will you be able to get an LCD if there are no OLED alternatives?

With plasma gone--forget the 65-inch plasma sets!

With rear projection sets gone forget the above 70inch sets that they provided.

WHAT WILL BE LEFT?

The way you KNOW what I'm saying is true is that the only posts I receive about this possibility just JOKE about my WARNINGS like I'm a chicken with the sky falling--NOBODY states how they KNOW that Panasonic will continue producing plasma in 2015 and beyond--nobody states how they KNOW Sharp will still be in business--And NOBODY can state a good case for OLED providing 70-inch sets in 2015, 2016, 2017.......which don't cost trillions!

The silence about the issue is because for many plant posters--AVS is a place where many of the manufacturers have people who post in and PUSH their products.

The manufacturers don't want the average AVS poster who does care about video quality to KNOW that come 2015 they will be restricted to LCD that sucks!

Tell me how optomistic the NON LCD forces will be at CES? Tell me how optomistic industry insiders there will be about Sharp surviving!

If I don't know what I'm talking about--if there will be QUALITY video displays for reasonable prices in the 65 and 70 inch range in 2015 and 2016 state the case!

And I'll leave everyone with this: remember how Samsung was going to sell all those 55-inch OLEDS in 2012? What happened? Don't believe the pie in the sky OLED believers--look at the deeds or lack of deeds of would be OLED producers!

Where are all of their reasonably priced sets that will be both better video quality wise and SIZE wise compared to LCD?

I don't see them!!! Do you?
Edited by Artwood - 12/17/12 at 11:04pm
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post #47 of 105
12/20/12 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Plasma won't be around too much longer and OLED costs trillions and won't be in large sizes for a good long while.
If you like rear projection then buy one of the last ones before they're gone.
We're moving to the New World Order of LCD that sucks!
What a horror story!

Artwood, you gloom and doom over here too? LOL....

For the record, every LCD I've ever watched has bugged me, and when I return to my CRT I relax. Sigh......

Thinking on getting rabbit ears for the top of it just as a finishing touch.
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post #48 of 105
12/20/12 at 9:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Paul.R.S; good question. Artwood; you know this how??

He has super powers.

Actually, no, this has been a phenomenon discussed at length over there aways———>in the Flat Panel General & New FP Tech forum.

Basically, the big concern is an effective train wreck of circumstances.
  • Plasma could never quite shake off the black eyes (a horribly mixed metaphor) it gets from brightness & IR. Even Panasonic, the plasma king, moved heavily into LED-LCD this year because of its dwindling sales. LOW Single digit market share next year, and almost-gone the next are likely.
  • DLP has three fundamental problems: For the most part it's hefty in a day of thin-screen-bragging-rights, can't usually be wall mounted, and (whether it's actually true or not) has a bad reputation for miserable viewing angles. Whether or not any of this truly matters never seems to truly matter. frown.gif
  • OLED just (new news) tripped up big time: their yields are less than half of what they were hoping they'd be. And that's just for 2K. 4K (UD) is going to make that an insanely tough nut to crack. Everyone more or less is adding 2 or 3 years to their hopes and dreams.
  • And Crystal LED is still an impenetrable Sony mystery with no one knowing where or how they'll be made, even though the 55" has been demoed to death. I have my fingers crossed for this thing, because while it's not crazy-thin like OLED, it sure it what you want to see (emissive).

This leaves LCD. And all of its pitfalls that drive me crazy.
Edited by tgm1024 - 12/20/12 at 9:35pm
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post #49 of 105
12/20/12 at 10:24pm
There is alway roll your own rear projection. Given the space and budget you can pretty much achieve whatever quality level you want in the 100 inch size. Use the front projector of your choice behind the screen...

I hear all the fear... but if Sharp can't make it on its own either Japan will nationalize them along with other CEs or they will sell the fabs lock stock and barrel to a Chinese vendor who will make big and cheap and beautiful. I suspect the Japanese terror of their aggressive Sino neighbor will keep the CEs on the Nippon goverment dole for the indefinite future. Add to that the Yen will likely be falling like a rock over the next months and years and foreign exchange earnings of the CEs will look much better. A cheap currency makes exported good cheap in the overseas market. The Euro is recently looking very strong against the Yen. That arbors for much better EU sales than the last couple of years when the Yen was high and EU economy was in freefall.. The EU will generate not just sales but lot of highly profitable sales. All the Nippon CEs will tread water in 2013 with blank checks coming from the Japanese government, 2014 will be a turnaround year for the Big Japaneses CEs... might be a good bit of consolidating along the way as well.
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post #50 of 105
12/21/12 at 9:01am
I just replaced a 65" DLP set with an 80" Sharp LCD.

I loved the pq the DLP set delivered while I had it in my HT.

I did not find the DLP set to be at all reliable. I went through 3 light engines and maxed out my lamp replacement warranty in my 4+ years of ownership. This was one case where buying an extended warranty on the set and lamps really paid off.

Other than reliability, I found no big negatives with the DLP set. I had good screen uniformity, off angle viewing was fine, no burn in worries.

The LCD set is much brighter, which is nice in daytime viewing in my family room. It is also much sharper. Some would say "less film like".

All in all, I find the movement away from DLP to be a positive.

Like all things, technologies change and now that manufacturers are starting to get the ability to cut larger screen size LCD panels at a reasonable price point, DLP's days were numbered.

RIP DLP
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post #51 of 105
12/21/12 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

I just replaced a 65" DLP set with an 80" Sharp LCD.
I loved the pq the DLP set delivered while I had it in my HT.
I did not find the DLP set to be at all reliable. I went through 3 light engines and maxed out my lamp replacement warranty in my 4+ years of ownership. This was one case where buying an extended warranty on the set and lamps really paid off.
Other than reliability, I found no big negatives with the DLP set. I had good screen uniformity, off angle viewing was fine, no burn in worries.
The LCD set is much brighter, which is nice in daytime viewing in my family room. It is also much sharper. Some would say "less film like".
All in all, I find the movement away from DLP to be a positive.
Like all things, technologies change and now that manufacturers are starting to get the ability to cut larger screen size LCD panels at a reasonable price point, DLP's days were numbered.
RIP DLP

Just make sure you get a good 3rd party warranty. Sharp is in the most desparate financial straights. BTW, the latest DLPs are drastically more reliable and the images are much sharper that in the past. As for sharpness the clear screen rear projectors are much sharper than the others but the 80" Sharp is still much sharper but it in my opinion is a bit fatiguing to watch for extended periods. My brother has a new 80" Sharp. I like it on a number of fronts particularly brightness during the day. On the other hand my 92840 with Lumagen provided 125 pt color calibration and a darbee is an amazing television and I don't long for a 90" Sharp. LCD might get interesting to me at 100 inches and 4k rez.... for me the 80" would be a serious step down. The 90" is $9k dollars on the street, or twice the price of a 92 Mits DLP with a Radiance and a Darbee
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post #52 of 105
12/21/12 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

All in all, I find the movement away from DLP to be a positive.

Like all things, technologies change and now that manufacturers are starting to get the ability to cut larger screen size LCD panels at a reasonable price point, DLP's days were numbered.

Spoken like a true former DLP owner, who unfortunately had a lotta issues with his DLP display. I think your first sentence here may be more accurately phrased, "I find MY movement away from DLP [has been] positive."

Looked at more broadly, I think it's a non sequitur to say RP DLP's demise somehow represents a broad positive in one sentence but in the very next acknowledge it's a sea change driven by market forces not an industry desire to continue to offer the best PQ and most consumer choice. It may be the case "that manufacturers are starting to get the ability to cut larger screen size LCD panels at a reasonable price point," but some of us have serious problems with LCD PQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

LCD might get interesting to me at 100 inches and 4k rez.... for me the 80" would be a serious step down. The 90" is $9k dollars on the street, or twice the price of a 92 Mits DLP with a Radiance and a Darbee

Exactly. I agree.
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post #53 of 105
12/21/12 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

The way you KNOW what I'm saying is true is that the only posts I receive about this possibility just JOKE about my WARNINGS like I'm a chicken with the sky falling--NOBODY states how they KNOW that Panasonic will continue producing plasma in 2015 and beyond--nobody states how they KNOW Sharp will still be in business--And NOBODY can state a good case for OLED providing 70-inch sets in 2015, 2016, 2017.......which don't cost trillions!

LOL I dig the "drama" and certitude of your assertions. But it should be called out that there is some tautology going on here. Even if I agree with the general thrust of what you're saying, just because you don't hear dissenting voices doesn't somehow confirm the veracity of what you're saying. I don't mean to trivialize the point, but I can go to my roof and scream "I'm the king of the world" and just because no one retorts doesn't mean it's true. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

The silence about the issue is because for many plant posters--AVS is a place where many of the manufacturers have people who post in and PUSH their products.

Wow. It sure seemed that way from my time in the Oppo threads, but is this a broader, um, problem/issue at this site in your experience/from your perspective? I'm seriously interested/this is not a sarcastic or disingenuous question.
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post #54 of 105
12/21/12 at 12:05pm
tgm1024:

Thanks for that helpful bullet-pointed breakdown/overview of the display market future as a lotta folks see it (in your post # 48).
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post #55 of 105
12/21/12 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

tgm1024:
Thanks for that helpful bullet-pointed breakdown/overview of the display market future as a lotta folks see it (in your post # 48).

Sarcastic(?) If genuine, you're more than welcome. I'm new to this forum though, so I don't know who routinely verbally puts whom into dumpsters out back. LOL....
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post #56 of 105
12/21/12 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

Spoken like a true former DLP owner, who unfortunately had a lotta issues with his DLP display. I think your first sentence here may be more accurately phrased, "I find MY movement away from DLP [has been] positive."
Looked at more broadly, I think it's a non sequitur to say RP DLP's demise somehow represents a broad positive in one sentence but in the very next acknowledge it's a sea change driven by market forces not an industry desire to continue to offer the best PQ and most consumer choice. It may be the case "that manufacturers are starting to get the ability to cut larger screen size LCD panels at a reasonable price point," but some of us have serious problems with LCD PQ.
Exactly. I agree.
I was just expressing my feeings about moving to my new set. No broad statement about technology.

I enjoyed my DLP (when is worked).

Enjoy the attributes of the new LCD set also - especially the added sharpness and brightness in my viewing room.

I know manufacturers are having growing pains in producing larger LCD sets. The 1st generation 70" Sharps were a mess. Even with full backlighing they were unable to light the corners of the screen.

My 80" has full array backlighting, which works about as well as the lamp in my DLP in giving a consistent brightness across the screen.

I tend to buy pq, not a set technology. I looked at the 92" Mitsubishi but got turned off by the clear screen glare and the dullness of the picture - compared to the LCD sets around it. My viewing area benefits from a bit of a bump in brightness during the day. Those factors, plus the frequent repair on my old set, made me jump to something different. YMMV and that is fine.
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post #57 of 105
12/21/12 at 4:06pm
I think that DLP as made by Mits was and is great (particularly at 73 "), but I agree that at large sizes like 92 inches that the 150-180 watt lamp leaves something wanting.

It will be interesting if the earlier poster's remarks about Prysm point to some happy outcome.

In the meantime, enjoy your 80 inch. I saw it, and think it's a very good set...even better if you get it off torch mode and set it to avoid the soap opera effect. I watched Avatar on it and it was compelling!
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post #58 of 105
12/21/12 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Sarcastic(?) If genuine, you're more than welcome. I'm new to this forum though, so I don't know who routinely verbally puts whom into dumpsters out back. LOL....

Two years isn't *that* new. In any event, sometimes a "thank you" is indeed just a "thank you." There was no sarcasm intended.
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post #59 of 105
12/21/12 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

Two years isn't *that* new. In any event, sometimes a "thank you" is indeed just a "thank you." There was no sarcasm intended.

No, I meant the Projection Forum. In any case, again, you're more than welcome! smile.gif
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post #60 of 105
12/21/12 at 8:58pm
Moving away from Mit 65738 to LED myself.

Mine needs light engine work. Its been worked on at least yearly since getting it. The design that sucks air and dust and dirt through its innards is sooner or later going to create problems.

Yes I think plasma is going away. Cost issues, reputation about image retention, etc., all steer me as a potential buyer to LG7600, LG7200, probably staying away from Sharp given their financial woes.

Been around home theater equipment for awhile. The market is the market. Choice, prices, availability, etc., is making LED TV's the winner for now.

Not going to spend any more money on RPTV technology.

Companies left it behind for a reason.
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