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Mike's down-under theatre build - Almost done - more pics.

post #1 of 125
Thread Starter 
I did have a dramatic intro piece written, then I clicked the wrong button and it reset all my text.

So anyway - long story short; we have been planning to build a house for some time, finally doing it - I have always demanded a theatre room be part of the plans and so now I have been given (within the space and budgetary constraints) this blank canvas.



Snuggled between the garage and the entry hallway, the dimensions are:
4,350mm wide, 5,990mm deep and 2,710mm high - or in the old measure: 14.3ft by 19.7ft by 8.9ft.

I wanted about an extra 3 feet in width and depth, but I wont complain. I also want an Aston Martin Vanquish and doubt that I will be getting that any time soon either, except in 1:18 scale.

In terms of soundproofing, our builder was reasonably difficult. Firstly there was the flat no to a room with no windows... apparently this is illegal... frown.gif They wanted to build the standard home, with standard construction methods and didn't really want to do anything special at all - in fact when I approached them with my requirements for soundproofing they tried to say it was more of a commercial application and couldn't be done. I asked them to leave the walls unfinished - i.e. just the stud wall with no plasterboard or insulation and again they refused - citing that it couldn't be signed off as complete in this condition - so compromises had to be made.

Ultimately I got them to put some 13mm plasterboard internally and externally to the wall and ceiling of this room, as well as double glazing the windows and popping in acoustic specific insulation in the walls. No doubt noise will escape by the truckload, but we have no children and I am not exactly a neighbourly person, so there are worse things in life. (like having kids and friendly neighbours).

So anyway - the foundation was poured and if we cue the 80's montage music we have something that looks like this:






At this point, I decided it's a good idea to run some cables in the walls:

I have some ProAV "Alto" cable for the surround and surround back channels (7.1 system) and will double run this cable to bi-wire the front and center channels once all the gear is in.
http://www.audioproducts.com.au/ProductInfo.aspx?pid=ALTOROLL

I also have run a Wireworld Ultra-Violet6 HDMI cable through to the roof along with a junction box for the projector (video/power).
http://www.wireworldcable.co.uk/products/100.html
I probably could have bought a vastly cheaper HDMI cable that would have done the same job, but when talking about 12m cable run and being difficult to replace, I figured do it properly the first time, plus the cable should be more than sufficient for 4K (or UltraHD) when it comes around. Plus, I figure that whole principle that if you are told that a cable is better, then you will "hear" the improvement (even though it doesn't exist) probably goes both ways and that if you feel you 'cheaped-out' on a cable then you will probably always think its sounds worse. I'd rather be blissfully ignorant and sit with the pricier cable.





Anyway - I better save this post before I fat-finger click something I shouldn't and lose it all smile.gif
post #2 of 125
Thread Starter 
Sorry about the delay - post moderation and all.

Anyway -
Once the cables were in the wall, the builder got to work on the rest of the house;
Unfortunately the photos are sporadic as I can only get to the site after work hours due to actually having a job also (boo) and so I am sometimes locked out, and/or find myself seeing something go from step 1 the previous day, to step 8 the next day and miss everything inbetween. Not going to complain about the house going up fast though smile.gif.





Thats pretty much where the room is at at the moment - Once I get a set of keys to the house things will move in the right direction. The whole room will be repainted in a much darker colour - unsure on specifics at this point as I haven't really decided on a theme as such.

The windows are going to be completely covered with a double layer of thick dark curtains to act as both an absorber/diffuser and also for light and sound-proofing purposes. this room will never see daylight, and I wanted to make the windows much much smaller but the WAF kicked in and mentioned that the front of the house may look unbalanced with odd windows on one side... doh!

The idea is for a front stage and screen and a rear seat riser to accomodate 2 rows of seating for an 8-seat theatre. I have ordered these chairs, but in a darker "raisin" colour, which is more charcoal;

I jumped the gun a bit on chairs, but then found there is a 12week lead time so I probably make a good choice.

The equipment is the exciting part. partly inspired by almost every local commercial cinema, and partly due to how blown away I was in a local demo room, I decided on KRIX speakers.
The bonus is they are locally made in Adelaide, South Australia, so not only are they brilliant looking, brilliant performing and reasonable value, but also I am supporting local business.

I went for a 7.1 speaker configuration featuring the Krix range of:
Neuphonix (fronts) http://www.krix.com/Product/Detail.aspx?p=44&id=1
Epicentrix (centre) http://www.krix.com/Product/Detail.aspx?p=44&id=20
Dynamix (surrounds) http://www.krix.com/Product/Detail.aspx?p=44&id=84
Volcanix (subwoofer) http://www.krix.com/Product/Detail.aspx?p=44&id=80

I had the Neuphonix special ordered in a front ported version, knowing I would be using them close to the front wall.
The Volcanix was the only item I did not have the chance to hear prior as most local demo rooms only had the smaller Seismix3 on display, and even that was "enough" however after running these speakers in my lounge room for 2 months (I couldn't wait for the house to be finished haha) I am very satisfied with the bass output, but would consider adding another Volcanix simply to add to the floor shaking factor. Notice that the menu buttons and LCD display for the subwoofer settings are on the front of the sub box making it very easy to set up and adjust the settings, even when the subwoofer is installed.

For amplification I decided on Marantz, and went with the
AV7005 http://www.qualifi.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx_SR.tpl&product_id=11659&category_id=344&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=298
MM7055 http://www.qualifi.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx_SR.tpl&product_id=11698&category_id=139&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=226
MM7025 http://www.qualifi.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx_SR.tpl&product_id=11697&category_id=139&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=226

pre/power amp setup, as well as a Marantz UD5007 3D Bluray player. http://www.qualifi.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx_SR.tpl&product_id=13650&category_id=141&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=226

Due to the "couldn't wait" factor, within 5 minutes of the speakers being delivered to the HiFi shop, I was there ready to pick them up... never mind whether they would fit in the car or not...


For scale - that's a 60" TV in the background. Note that it is a Sharp Aquos 3D LEDTV. This was given to us by the builder for free, and I would like to go on record and state that I would NEVER pay even $1 for one of these horrid TV's. From the smooth motion 'soap-opera' effect that cant be turned off completely, to the insane amount of backlight bleeding and the horrendous 3D crosstalk that actually renders the 3D useless given that 1 eye always sees both images (regardless of the glasses used). I'm hoping they will warranty replace it due to excessive backlight bleed then I will sell it and by an LG.


The TV in this image is my original JVC 70" HD RPTV that served me well for a number of years.

The KRIX Dynamix rears


The whole thing in a temporary setup in our current place. terrible room acoustics, but this will all change in the theatre build.




Anyway - for the new room, this sorts the Audio out. But what about the video???

I am planning to run a CIH setup. I will be using a JVC X-90R or X-95R depending on price/availability come January/February, and will be mating this to a Panamorph UH480.
I will be grabbing an SMX ProCurve screen, but unsure on size... depending on what I can get away with in terms of throw ratio I want to get a 140" wide screen, but may end up with a 130" wide screen.

And lastly - for the Americans here - I was holidaying in the states last year and became addicted to this stuff... just so happens to be one of the hardest beers to get in Australia and we pay a LOT more for it here than you do at home... I'm very jealous of that.
post #3 of 125
Thread Starter 
I haven't had a lot of advice regarding room acoustics, but from what I understand I want to kill the front wall with absorption, absorb the first and second reflection points (walls and ceiling) and diffuse the back of the room, plus bass traps in the corners....
Does that sound roughly right???

The carpet and chairs are both a dark charcoal colour, so I am unsure what I should do for the walls and ceiling... Any suggestions there?
I am thinking a darkish colour like a dark grey for he walls, broken up by some lighter coloured half columns for decoration on the walls. Or perhaps vice-versa, with some lighter coloured walls and darker columns and absorber panels.... Quite stuck on this and I guess I will just see what happens once I start post-handover room construction.
post #4 of 125
Hi Mike,

Always good to see another down under build !

Where are you ?

Cheers,
post #5 of 125
Nice to see yet another Downunder Room!.....chances are you'll be finished before me biggrin.gif (I'm secretly getting little bits done smile.gif)

Builders are such idiots.....its a shame they've stuffed you around with this.....too bad you didn't get double or staggered studd walls put in. I'd build plugs for the windows or get some sliding "covers" that are upholstred - put 48kg insolation in instead of wadding

Acoustics - if it were me, I'd just do the front wall and see how you like it. Then if you're not happy buy some BAD's or Quest Perfsorber for the reflection points/rears (Acoustic Vision in Melbourne)

Screen - have you purchased this yet? I'd have a good hard look at the Oz Theater Screen screens. The money you'd save you could put towards some better acoustic treatments.
post #6 of 125
Thread Starter 
Hi guys, I am in Adelaide, and I have had the pleasure of viewing an SMX screen in action, and wanting it to be both curved and AT, it seems like the right choice.

I have a question re the front stage - what should I use to soundproof the stage... A lot of people seem to use sand. What is the benefit of using sand over simply filling it with insulation?
Secondly - the front wall behind the screen, is there anything particularly recommended for the wall, and also for the bass traps? A specific type of insultation of material??

I was thinking of some prefab diffusers and absorber panels, as I am not very handy in that regard... Office hands. I can get these at a good price and give flexible options for installation, so I will probably get in and get the gear set then treat the room once I know what it sounds like.
Bass traps and front deadening are a given of course.
post #7 of 125
You're in Adelaide and dont own Vaf speakers! shame on you biggrin.gif only kidding smile.gif

Fair enough - are you getting the screen locally? I remember looking into the price of these things.....I could get a very good projector, a screen and possibly the best lens on the market for the price of the SMX screen! Not worth it for the curve IMO.

Filling the stage with sand has various acoustic benefits...do it if you can. Otherwise cheap insulation (dont over compact it)

I like this stuff and its what PeterM used on his baffle wall - great to work with and no health problems (its polyester). Oh and comes in black.

Edit: you really should do measurements and then add treatments etc, but if you want to go adhoc, you cant do too much damage with BAD's.......adding insulation over the surfaces on the other hand can be hit and miss....although worked for dingaling (Greg)
post #8 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post

You're in Adelaide and dont own Vaf speakers! shame on you biggrin.gif only kidding smile.gif
Fair enough - are you getting the screen locally? I remember looking into the price of these things.....I could get a very good projector, a screen and possibly the best lens on the market for the price of the SMX screen! Not worth it for the curve IMO.
Filling the stage with sand has various acoustic benefits...do it if you can. Otherwise cheap insulation (dont over compact it)
I like this stuff and its what PeterM used on his baffle wall - great to work with and no health problems (its polyester). Oh and comes in black.
Edit: you really should do measurements and then add treatments etc, but if you want to go adhoc, you cant do too much damage with BAD's.......adding insulation over the surfaces on the other hand can be hit and miss....although worked for dingaling (Greg)

The screen I have been told is about the $7800 mark for a 140(156 diagonal). That was about what I was expecting based on online prices and doesn't seem too expensive to me although if you think that's horrid, point me out a cheaper price and I will bargain down my local. .
Add that to the $9000 for the projector and probably $4000 for the lens, and then the $15000 already dropped on audio gear... This theatre room thing certainly isn't what you could call cheap... But then I guess that's the difference between a set of 5.1 satellites and. 50inch plasma versus what we all are here for :-) considering the WAF was based on an original budget of $20K I think I'm doing OK haha.

VAF seems to be quite well known, but Krix being made in Adelaide too and being used in 2200 commercial cinemas worldwide. That's enough for me... Vaf-flaff!
post #9 of 125
Thread Starter 
A recent development in the picture department.
Having had a UH480 on my shopping list for some time and expecting around $4000 for lens and another $1100 or so for manual sled, imagine my unbridled excitement when I see AV Science selling Bstock M480SYS for only $2899!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Getting a shipping quote now, but unless it is going to cost $2,000 to ship then I will be WAY in front.

Happy times.
post #10 of 125
Thats not with masking is it?

I'd get on a plane to QLD and go see these guys before I purchased a screen....just another option - they sell a darn fine lens too

Swing home via Melbourne (I think?) and check out Aspect Masking

Also see Acoustic Vision - they're the only ones selling decent engineered panels in Australia (RPG & Quest)

Anyway, just a few ideas - best of luck with it
post #11 of 125
Hi Mike,

Peter's got you covered with all the right links. Screen and masking can be done for a lot less if you hunt around and don't mind some DIY.

Cheers,
post #12 of 125
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the links - the screen is well priced, but I am keen on the curve, especially as I don't have the room depth to be too relaxed on the throw ratio. Their lens prices are OK, but the price I'm looking at for the UH480 and sled is cheaper still.

I have emailed the aspect masking for more info - I like the sound of that, but otherwise manual masking doesn't phase me too much - will see what transpires.

Acoustic panelling... I was looking at Vicoustics - not recommended? They have well priced prefab panels in a range of purposes.
http://www.vicoustic.com.au/VN/Homecinema/default.asp

I am looking over the website for acoustic vision... Watch this space.
post #13 of 125
Thread Starter 
Aspect masking don't do masking for a curved screen. So that's that.
What does anyone think of the Vicoustic panels??
post #14 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyD360 View Post

Aspect masking don't do masking for a curved screen. So that's that.

Ah ... missed the bit about curved screen ... that certainly adds greatly to the cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyD360 View Post

What does anyone think of the Vicoustic panels??

Went to the Vicoustic site ... are they really wanting $1000 for a 600x600mm absorber panel ? eek.gif Ideally you need a high proportion of your walls covered in some sort of acoustic panels ... that'll run you about $40k !!

Cheers,
post #15 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post

Ah ... missed the bit about curved screen ... that certainly adds greatly to the cost.
Went to the Vicoustic site ... are they really wanting $1000 for a 600x600mm absorber panel ? eek.gif Ideally you need a high proportion of your walls covered in some sort of acoustic panels ... that'll run you about $40k !!
Cheers,

Not quite, the prices are approx 700 or so for a box,of panels (6 or 8) depending on the product, so based on the size of my room, it would work out to the same costs, however I have a local distributor that will likely give me a better price,and install.

Plus they look fancy haha.

I've resigned myself to having a crap looking room after seeing some of the amazing rooms in this forum.eek.gif
post #16 of 125
Thread Starter 
So... I've had a bit too much spare time and downloaded what has to be one of the worst 3D designer programs ever - but I managed to make a rough rendition of what I expect my theater to look like.
Note that I couldnt create a new floor level, so just made some short walls to represent the stage (roughly) and couldnt build a riser platform so just made the rear seats taller, haha. But you get the idea.
Colours are just slapped together and not representative of the final appearance (although I do like the green lights).

Panels on walls/ceiling are absorbers and diffusers to be confirmed for positioning once room is set up and tested.








What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

Also - does anyone recommend any software that I can get (preferably free) to make new and improved renders, perhaps with actual models of what I need, not just resized boxes.
post #17 of 125
Hi Mike,

Most here use Sketchup ... quite powerful and free ! Have a look at my thread for examples of a Sketchup model.

A few other comments ...

1. More woofage !
2. Think about two sides speakers on each side ... one for each row.
3. I suggest paying for some acoustic design so you know where to position the panels.
4. Three identical speakers across the front would be better.
5. More woofage !!
6. Get rid of the cabinet beside the left speaker.
7. Consider a hush box for the projector.
8. A single door would be better for sound proofing.
9. More woofage !!!

Cheers,
Peter M
post #18 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post

Hi Mike,
Most here use Sketchup ... quite powerful and free ! Have a look at my thread for examples of a Sketchup model.
A few other comments ...
1. More woofage !
2. Think about two sides speakers on each side ... one for each row.
3. I suggest paying for some acoustic design so you know where to position the panels.
4. Three identical speakers across the front would be better.
5. More woofage !!
6. Get rid of the cabinet beside the left speaker.
7. Consider a hush box for the projector.
8. A single door would be better for sound proofing.
9. More woofage !!!
Cheers,
Peter M

1,5 & 9. Considering another woofer, but only a small room 26m2 so concerned about overdoing it.
2: considering it but only a 7.1ch receiver and unsure how to duplicate the signal without degrading it to another 2ch amp...

4: speakers are the same, I.e same drivers, brand, etc, just in a sideways configuration for the center. (Already purchased - links in earlier post)

6: yes, agree - will likely spread components along the bottom of screen.

8: this is already built, so can't change it now. I like the grandness of a double entry door anyway. I'll live :-)

3 & 7: good ideas, will definitely be doing 3, unsure about 7 but can't be too pricey.
post #19 of 125
Mike,

1, 5 & 9. Multiple subwoofers is as much about smoother bass over multiple seats as it is about volume.
2. Receiver ? I thought you had a Marantz pre/pro + power amp combo ? Any decent amp or receiver should be able to drive two speakers per channel, with an eye on combined impedance.
7. Hush boxes are normally DIY. Lots of info in this forum.

Cheers,
post #20 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post

Mike,
1, 5 & 9. Multiple subwoofers is as much about smoother bass over multiple seats as it is about volume.
2. Receiver ? I thought you had a Marantz pre/pro + power amp combo ? Any decent amp or receiver should be able to drive two speakers per channel, with an eye on combined impedance.
7. Hush boxes are normally DIY. Lots of info in this forum.
Cheers,

Sounds like another woofer is the go biggrin.gif

I do indeed have the Marantz pre-pro AV7005 and 7055/7025 amps.
I don't want to run the surrounds in parallel as the speakers are already 6ohm, and don't want to drive the amp down to 3ohms for those channels. Although, the mains are 4ohm and it is a nominal figure... So the 2 surrounds could be closer to 4ohms anyway and are a low duty driver, so may be ok... I may check with krix and Marantz re this unless anyone here has any experience with this???
post #21 of 125
Thread Starter 
Double post, oops!
post #22 of 125
Mike,

You could probably wire them in series without any problems.

Cheers,
post #23 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post

Mike,
You could probably wire them in series without any problems.
Cheers,

So on that subject, when we have the 2 surround back channels running at a different output level to the surround channels, will the processor have enough adjustment to level them out?
post #24 of 125
Mike,

I would expect so, but don't have the experience to be sure.

Cheers,
post #25 of 125
Level matching shouldn't be a problem. The concern, as I understand it, is in the comb filter that two identical noise sources create. In arrays of speakers, great care is taken to minimize the interference pattern created with the two sound waves interact. In the home environment, my understanding is that an electronic delay (a few msec) or some other form of "intelligent" processing is applied to decorrelate the signals. This came up (but was not fully explained) here. (See Nightlord's inital post and the follow up involving Roger and Shawn.)
post #26 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Level matching shouldn't be a problem. The concern, as I understand it, is in the comb filter that two identical noise sources create. In arrays of speakers, great care is taken to minimize the interference pattern created with the two sound waves interact. In the home environment, my understanding is that an electronic delay (a few msec) or some other form of "intelligent" processing is applied to decorrelate the signals. This came up (but was not fully explained) here. (See Nightlord's inital post and the follow up involving Roger and Shawn.)

Interesting discussion. My suggestion to Mike comes from seeing Dennis specify two sides for two rows in many rooms including my own.

Cheers,
post #27 of 125
I think you wire them out of phase?
post #28 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post

I think you wire them out of phase?

No idea ! Mine are currently in phase.

Cheers,
post #29 of 125
Thread Starter 
Hmmm.. I think i will stick to 1 pair of surrounds and 1 pair of back surrounds.

Thanks for the idea though. The room isn't quite big enough for 2 pairs of surrounds anyway.

Not too far away now - stone tops ordered and 3-4 weeks away, then 2nd fix electrical, tiling and clean up. Stupid Christmas is right in the way otherwise we could have been in before the end of the year, grrr.

You guys have got me second guessing my screen choice now... I know that the SMX screen is brilliant, however after seeing the previously linked screen for $1800, I'm not sure spending $7800 on a screen is such a great idea anymore... I mean I will love the screen, but that cash could be put towards more...
Hmmm... Any suggestions on good curved AT scope screens that don't come out at almost ten grand??
post #30 of 125
I dont think any curved screen comes cheap unless you DIY. Here is an interesting quote from Dennis on the subject:

Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine
Quote:
The "need" or lack of "need" for a curved screen is a combination of factors:

1. Throw distance between screen and lens (short throws, wide screens = problems);
2. Width of the screen with respect to the width of the room (the closer the screen to the room's width, the more points in favor of curved)
3. Relationship between screen width and distance of primary row (or front row) from the screen.

All of the above need be considered. My experience suggests, corner to corner focus need not be a problem. OTOH, I also find in most installations of curved screens the radius of the screen is way too small ... generally by about half of what it ought to be.
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