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Klipsch RW-12d on sale for $299 at Newegg.com again today! - Page 24

post #691 of 2776
What is the highest crossover point recommended with this sub? This is the first time added a .1 to my JBL Movies 1/Music 1 setup. The Movies 1 (Center and 2 surrounds) have a frequency response of 120 Hz - 20 kHz. The Music 1 (2 satellite speakers w/2 passive subs) have a frequency response of 40 Hz - 20 kHz. It's way past time to upgrade my speakers, but may take a while before that happens.
post #692 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by grhopper View Post

What is the highest crossover point recommended with this sub?

This is a trick question as without a graph of the room's acoustics, based on the current subwoofer system's output, this question cannot rationally be answered. Personally, my graph showed me that our crossover needed to be 40Hz but the standard is 60hz to 80Hz but for our "current" situation, 40Hz is the right answer.

So the correct answer, would be; "It depends." :cool.gif
post #693 of 2776
I guess my main concern is, if my center is rated 120 Hz - 20 kHz, and I set the crossover somewhere between 60 - 80, how much am I missing out on between the crossover point and what the center is rated at? I don't want to crossover too high that the sub doesn't perform well, or too low that I miss out on a large range. The easy answer would be to replace the center, but a new tv is higher on the priority list. Here are links to the docs for my other speakers:

http://www.jbl.com/images/media/MUSIC_1_OM_EN.pdf
http://www.jbl.com/images/media/MOVIES_1_OM_EN.pdf
post #694 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by grhopper View Post

I guess my main concern is, if my center is rated 120 Hz - 20 kHz, and I set the crossover somewhere between 60 - 80, how much am I missing out on between the crossover point and what the center is rated at? I don't want to crossover too high that the sub doesn't perform well, or too low that I miss out on a large range. The easy answer would be to replace the center, but a new tv is higher on the priority list. Here are links to the docs for my other speakers:

http://www.jbl.com/images/media/MUSIC_1_OM_EN.pdf
http://www.jbl.com/images/media/MOVIES_1_OM_EN.pdf
Best thing to do would be to play around with it between 80 and 120 and leave it where it sounds best.
post #695 of 2776

Run a frequency sweep and, even without proper test equipment, you will be able to tell if you're "close enough."

http://files.hsuresearch.com/downloads/

Setting the crossover too high (over 80Hz) often makes the bass "localizable," meaning you can tell where the sub is; you don't want that.

post #696 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by grhopper View Post

I guess my main concern is, if my center is rated 120 Hz - 20 kHz, and I set the crossover somewhere between 60 - 80, how much am I missing out on between the crossover point and what the center is rated at?

The short version: notta much.

The consensus is, although the 0.1 channel is currently spec'd to 20kHz, the majority of scripting takes place in the <80Hz range.

Personally, if possible, if your center channel is rated at 120Hz to 20kHz, I'd give serious consideration to a more efficient center channel and yes, I realize in my recommendation, finances is a major player in decisions of this kind.

Quote:
Setting the crossover too high (over 80Hz) often makes the bass "localizable," meaning you can tell where the sub is; you don't want that.


^^^

What LastButNotLeast said.
Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/15/13 at 1:11pm
post #697 of 2776
I guess the next question would be, how much "low" is there usually in the center channel soundtrack? If the l/r fronts each have a sub that goes down to 40 Hz, wouldn't they handle most of the "low" soundtrack of movies?
post #698 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by grhopper View Post

I guess the next question would be, how much "low" is there usually in the center channel soundtrack? If the l/r fronts each have a sub that goes down to 40 Hz, wouldn't they handle most of the "low" soundtrack of movies?

My understanding, the center channel is spec'd to dialogue and handles 90% of dialogue so the frequency range of the center channel is "PARAMOUNT."

Personally, in Home Theater sound reproduction, I consider the center channel to be "THE MOST" important information channel.

Disclosure, recently we upgraded our center channel to a Klipsch, "b-stock," RC-64 II and overall, it was the best move I've made.
post #699 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by grhopper View Post

I guess the next question would be, how much "low" is there usually in the center channel soundtrack? If the l/r fronts each have a sub that goes down to 40 Hz, wouldn't they handle most of the "low" soundtrack of movies?

"Most"? No. That's a woofer, not a sub. There's no need to get down to 5Hz (though that would depend on your definition of "need" wink.gif), but, if you want to FEEL bass, you need to get close to 20Hz. Which these Klipsch can. With a DSP, I get mine down to 20, and you can feel air pumping out of the port (which, fortunately, wasn't loose when I started). Having a sub take over at 60 or 80 will take a lot of strain off your fronts, so they'll work better, too.

post #700 of 2776
The point I was trying to make was that not much of the dialogue takes place between 60Hz - 120Hz. Most sound in those ranges would be generated by effects that would take place in the front l/r channels. Does that sound reasonable, or am I way off in that assumption?
post #701 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by grhopper View Post

I guess the next question would be, how much "low" is there usually in the center channel soundtrack? If the l/r fronts each have a sub that goes down to 40 Hz, wouldn't they handle most of the "low" soundtrack of movies?

Your center channel handles the dialogue. Does your JBL system have it's own receiver? You lost me with the crossover question. Are you able to set a crossover for each of your speakers or all of them or what? Setting that sub up would depend on your AVR and what type of speaker management it has.

Al
post #702 of 2776
I have a Sony STR-DN1010 AVR.
post #703 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by grhopper View Post

The point I was trying to make was that not much of the dialogue takes place between 60Hz - 120Hz. Most sound in those ranges would be generated by effects that would take place in the front l/r channels. Does that sound reasonable, or am I way off in that assumption?
I don't think it's a safe assumption to make. If the sound engineer decides that a particular explosion or thump needs to emanate from the center of the screen, then he will save that info in the center channel track, and also possibly the L/R channel tracks to a lesser extent.
post #704 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by grhopper View Post

I have a Sony STR-DN1010 AVR.

That receiver has speaker management called DCAC (Digital Cinema Auto Calibration). Did you use this to set your speakers? Also, it's unclear to me what "crossover" you're talking about. The subwoofer doesn't actually have a crossover, it has a LPF (Low Pass Filter), and that should normally be set to it's highest setting and/or turned off/bypassed. The receiver normally does the bass management.
Have you run the DCAC from your receiver? If not, set that up and run it. From what I read about that receiver, unlike Audyssey, you only have to run that program once. I have no idea what is involved with running that DCAC but I would think it would at least put you in the ball park with your speaker set up and bass management. If you have already done that, what are your settings?

Al
post #705 of 2776
My RW-12D from Newegg arrived yesterday.

The port tube was loose, but no big deal as I was expecting it.
Took about 5 minutes of maneuvering to get the tube back into place and now it seems pretty solid. Don't think I'll need to open it up and glue it or anything.

No other issues at this time, but I won't be able to test it until I get the rest of my speakers for this new system. Already received the Yammie 673. Waiting for the speakers is killing me!

Thanks to everyone is this thread- just reading thru it helped me to jump on this. I owned a Klipsch SW-8 years ago and I expect this will perform better. The SW-8 was a helluva sub!
post #706 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by grhopper View Post

The point I was trying to make was that not much of the dialogue takes place between 60Hz - 120Hz. Most sound in those ranges would be generated by effects that would take place in the front l/r channels. Does that sound reasonable, or am I way off in that assumption?

I had a quick look at the manual for that Sony AVR and it lets you set an independent crossover for each class of speaker (front, center, surround). So you should definitely set the crossover higher for your center, given it's very limited output on the low-end. Based on what you've told us about the speakers, I would recommend something between 120 and 150 Hz– this depends on how generous JBL was with their specification. It's true you'll be able to localize the sub somewhat, when it is playing these upper bass frequencies. But that's much better than losing the freqs entirely smile.gif

And as others have mentioned, this means you should bypass the LPF in the sub... you receiver is capable of handling this, and allows for per-speaker settings.
post #707 of 2776
Just saying, if localization issues are a consideration, if able, then one should consider replacing their speaker of choice with speakers where cross overs and localization are not a consideration.

(and yes, I'm aware that real money is involved in my recommendation)
post #708 of 2776

That would be . . . headphones?

biggrin.gif

post #709 of 2776
Back on sale for 299.

EMCYTZT2953
post #710 of 2776
Anyone in here play some DNB with their RW-12D? If so, how does it handle the low bass warbles and dribbles cause my MLT-2 sub is pretty much non existent with this genre....lol!
post #711 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

That would be . . . headphones?
biggrin.gif

The other half is a big headphone fan. She's been using cordless headphones for years.
post #712 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrooveRite View Post

Anyone in here play some DNB with their RW-12D? If so, how does it handle the low bass warbles and dribbles cause my MLT-2 sub is pretty much non existent with this genre....lol!
DNB?
post #713 of 2776
post #714 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Drum n Bass?
Thanks! smile.gif
post #715 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Drum n Bass?

lol, yes! Sorry guys!

I listen to it at the gym.....but sounds totally different on a actually system. Lots of lows with Drum and Bass. How does the RW-12D handle it?
post #716 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrooveRite View Post

lol, yes! Sorry guys!

I listen to it at the gym.....but sounds totally different on a actually system. Lots of lows with Drum and Bass. How does the RW-12D handle it?
I think it does fine for drums and bass. Keep in mind this is not a $1000 sub. The SVS PB1000 is more accurate but has less output. It also costs $200 more.
post #717 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrooveRite View Post

Anyone in here play some DNB with their RW-12D? If so, how does it handle the low bass warbles and dribbles cause my MLT-2 sub is pretty much non existent with this genre....lol!

My son's a big gym fan and listens to DNB but uses headphones so I'm not good there. In my old man opinion, you're going want to go big or stay home if buying for a home system for DNB playback.

Personally, you're going want more than a single RW-12d if wanting to replicate expected DNB like in a club. More like four RW-12d's would be more like it or a pair or three of upper output ID subwoofers but now you're pushing $3k or more. It's all going be dependent on how far you want to push the issue or what your expectations are going be. What are your DNB expectations?

Sign me an old 60's rocker who hasn't forgotten the day and still likes to rock out when nobody is looking.
post #718 of 2776
Got my new RW-12D setup and plugged into the new Yamaha 673 last nite. Still using some crappy RCA HTIB speakers until I make a decision on speakers for this setup.
Gotta say as crappy as those RCA speakers are, this sub breathes new life into them! I set the crossover fairly high...up around 160 and it's nice having bottom end again!

Now to decide on the speakers....in the running are Ascend 170's or 340's, ARX A1b's, Cambridge S30's, HTD, etc. I might make a trip to Best Buy to listen to the AJ Pioneers.
My room is only 3000 cubic feet or so...are Towers always better than bookshelves?
post #719 of 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I think it does fine for drums and bass. Keep in mind this is not a $1000 sub. The SVS PB1000 is more accurate but has less output. It also costs $200 more.

As long as it can handle the low end fairly, I think I would be happy. I'm sure if I ever heard a XV-15, I'd probably change my mind, lol!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

My son's a big gym fan and listens to DNB but uses headphones so I'm not good there. In my old man opinion, you're going want to go big or stay home if buying for a home system for DNB playback.

Personally, you're going want more than a single RW-12d if wanting to replicate expected DNB like in a club. More like four RW-12d's would be more like it or a pair or three of upper output ID subwoofers but now you're pushing $3k or more. It's all going be dependent on how far you want to push the issue or what your expectations are going be. What are your DNB expectations?

Sign me an old 60's rocker who hasn't forgotten the day and still likes to rock out when nobody is looking.

I would love to have multiple subs but I think my neighbors would want me out of my apartment, lol! What I'm really looking for is a good, musical sub that can dig deep and hard! I'm just looking for the best sound reproduction that I can afford and get away with here. Good sound quality at low to medium volume is very important to me because I don't want to damage my hearing anymore than I have already.
post #720 of 2776
I noticed the Klipsch comes with 4 little bitty stick on pads in a baggy. They seem awful small in comparison to the feet on the sub, but I assume this is where they are intended for?
Made me wonder about floor treatments. My floor is is basically wood panels. Would it typically be better to sit the sub on a carpet square or leave it on the hard wood surface?
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