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Klipsch RW-12d on sale for $299 at Newegg.com again today! - Page 32

post #931 of 2036
3/3/13 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I think I can get away with $600 dollar as long as the wife doesn't know it cost that much lol. My current set up is as follows:

Front Left / Right
Monitor 70's towers

Center
Polk Audio 25c

Surround Left / Right
Jamo s426 towers

Sub
RW-12D

AVR Pioneer SC-1222-K

I think the main reason why I want another sub is to put it on the right side of my tv stand so both sides are equal. There is an empty space on the side where there is not sub lol biggrin.gif
Must be nice to be able to afford to buy a sub because of symmetry. No reason to get anything better or more expensive just to fill up an empty space. Get another RW.
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post #932 of 2036
3/3/13 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Must be nice to be able to afford to buy a sub because of symmetry. No reason to get anything better or more expensive just to fill up an empty space. Get another RW.

The only reason why I am thinking of getting it is for symmetry, and I got some money from a car accident biggrin.gif
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post #933 of 2036
3/3/13 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetor View Post

Of course it would, now you have lower hz coming from both the fronts and the sub . . . moving from effectively from double bass.  So increasing the crossover on the fronts from 40 hz or 60 hz to 80 would decrease the frequencies below 80hz since the fronts would no longer be pushing anything below 80hz, thus less bass in the room.

But since the OP was running two RW-12ds, I was encouraging him to listen to those two subs without anything below 80hz coming out of the fronts . . . Two active subs and some bass added from the 2 front speakers too may result a some displeasing bass multipliers in the room . . . Ergo, my recommendation to try listening in his setup to just the subs below 80hz to see if it might enhance his listening, even though he is already enthused with one day of results while listening in his setup to two RW-12Ds with his fronts set to cross at 40hz.

FWIW, these are crossovers. What that means is, that no matter what you do, the mains and the subs will be emanating the same information, hence why the sound wave conflict. Crossovers are not a brick wall filter but, IIRC, are a 12dB crossover slope/octave. One is unable to appreciate the sensitivity of a room to minute changes until they've taken the time to setup and measure small changes.

One's ears are not going pick up on these issues that I post about because they're not sensitive enough, nor is our brain geared towards picking up these nuances but the synergism of each of these nuances, when combined, make one heck of a difference in how a room's acoustics react to what I'm sharing. Also, these subtle changes will tighten up bass or loosen it. Doing what I suggest helps remove ringing which is the smearing one reads about that muddies up bass sound.

Just an aside, oddly, I found that in our case, raising the main's crossover from 40Hz to 60Hz, improved the strength of the graph but going from 60Hz to 80Hz, weakened the graph. And changing the center channel in either direction, also had a deleterious affect. Just saying.
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post #934 of 2036
3/3/13 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I thinking about getting a second sub. I already own a RW-12D, and I am wondering if I should get another one or a different sub?

 

I have one RW-12d in my home office setup.  I have a very different sub in my HT . . . much more powerful, but much more expensive too..  

 

Whether you need two or not is decided differently for different people.  If I were to have just one setup and only one sub and already had one RW-12D, I might consider a second one depending on my room size and the fronts.  

 

But, if you were able to spend more and have just one sub in the room, and could afford the cash outlay at the time, I would recommend you look at one larger sub configuration.  The sub or subs is in HT is one place where quite often a significantly higher outlay in $ can translate as a force multiplier on outcome.

 

As has been pointed out, knowing your budget, setup (speakers, configuration, room-size and layout, and AVR, etc.), and desired outcome would help us to make better recommendations on whether to purchase a second RW-12D or go in another direction.

 

Even if you purchased to simply accomplish symmetry, a side benefit would be better bass if both are properly eq'd and correctly located in your room.  Your bass would be multiplied.  Though one great sub would more often than not will have even better end impact than two good budget subs together.

 

An empty box would get you symmetry.  :-).    But, for some people, symmetry and order are as important as outcome, and there is nothing wrong with that.  We all buy for our own reasons.

 

edited:  just,saw your later post; a second sub would not be necessary, but would add a little more if you felt you needed it.  What size is your room?  You might want to spend the $ on some other stuff, but a matching second sub is always nice in about any configuration.  It sure won't hurt.  :-)


Edited by Rhetor - 3/3/13 at 7:03pm
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post #935 of 2036
3/3/13 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


FWIW, these are crossovers. What that means is, that no matter what you do, the mains and the subs will be emanating the same information, hence why the sound wave conflict. Crossovers are not a brick wall filter but, IIRC, are a 12dB crossover slope/octave. One is unable to appreciate the sensitivity of a room to minute changes until they've taken the time to setup and measure small changes.
That is great for those who have the time and the inclination.


One's ears are not going pick up on these issues that I post about because they're not sensitive enough . . .
My ears are definitely not sensitive enough . . . But I do like what I hear, since my ears are different than yours, and I have not oft like the result of what has been intricately measured . . . Once electronically measured, I generally adjust the settings to what I like . . . For most measurements do not dictate,what we like . . . Our ears not sensitive enough to pick up on these issues become the final determining factor.  We,can let the measurements tell us what we are SUPPOSED to like mathematically, or we can let our ears make the final determination . . . I prefer the later, not really interested in a result,that pleases math and measurements rather than pleasing my own ear, the very reason my old Pioneer SX-9000 has tone control with no measuring . . . I just adjust the bass and treble controls until I get a sound I like which the measurements never would like.  In the Denon 4311, I let Audyssey XT32 do the math and then tweak to please my own ears.  That way, I get the best result I like, though my calculator,and spl meter are very sad.


Just an aside, oddly, I found that in our case, raising the main's crossover from 40Hz to 60Hz, improved the strength of the graph but going from 60Hz to 80Hz, weakened the graph. And changing the center channel in either direction, also had a deleterious affect.
Glad it improved the strength of your graph; I prefer improving the strength of the sound in my ears.  I have a motto:  "Never let a graph dictate to,your ears what you like."
 
Just saying.
Just sayin' . . . 
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post #936 of 2036
3/3/13 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetor View Post

Though one great sub would more often than not will have even better end impact than two good budget subs together.

Actually, I've heard (read, actually) the opposite. Two subs are much better at even distribution of the bass, greatly reducing room nulls and other problems. Two of the same sub make it easier, but I was able to "fudge" good results with mismatched subs and a DSP1124P.

Of course, two expensive subs are usually better than two cheaper subs, but there is good evidence that two cheaper subs are better than one sub of the same (as both subs) cost.

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post #937 of 2036
3/3/13 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Actually, I've heard (read, actually) the opposite. Two subs are much better at even distribution of the bass, greatly reducing room nulls and other problems. Two of the same sub make it easier, but I was able to "fudge" good results with mismatched subs and a DSP1124P.

Of course, two expensive subs are usually better than two cheaper subs, but there is good evidence that two cheaper subs are better than one sub of the same (as both subs) cost.

 

I definitely agree with your last sentence.  But I was talking about one significantly better sub, not a sub that cost $600 (the cost of two 12-D's on discount).  I was speaking of one significantly better sub which will cost a lot more than $600 , as I,implied in my earlier post:

 

 

I have one RW-12d in my home office setup.  I have a very different sub in my HT . . . much more powerful, but much more expensive too..  
 
But, if you were able to spend more and have just one sub in the room, and could afford the cash outlay at the time, I would recommend you look at one larger sub configuration.  The sub or subs is in HT is one place where quite often a significantly higher outlay in $ can translate as a force multiplier on outcome."

 

In my original post, I was thinking in the category that one SVS PB-13 Ultra would yield exponentially better result than two RW-12Ds.  Sorry I did not make that more clear.

 

I can think of no single NIB $600 sub I would rather have than two RW-12ds when on sale for $300.


Edited by Rhetor - 3/3/13 at 7:18pm
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post #938 of 2036
3/3/13 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetor View Post
I just adjust the bass and treble controls until I get a sound I like which the measurements never would like.  In the Denon 4311, I let Audyssey XT32 do the math and then tweak to please my own ears.  That way, I get the best result I like, though my calculator,and spl meter are very sad.

There is nothing wrong with achieving a flat response and modifying to taste (see "house curve," for example). The point is to start from some standard, and go from there. And sometimes small changes in speaker position (for example) can make a big difference.

And it can be fun.

I guess I shouldn't mention that you can use the mic you have for MCACC or Audyssey with REW. It won't be precise, but it will give you a chance to play with the program a little.

In case, some day, you may have an interest.

wink.gif

 

Also, in addition to the links to Archaea's music files, I'd like to offer this:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1412846/the-ultimate-bass-demo-disc

 

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post #939 of 2036
3/3/13 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetor View Post

I agree with your last sentence.  But I was talking about one significantly better sub, not a sub that cost $600 (the cost of two 12-D's on discount).  I was speaking of one significantly better sub which will cost a lot more than $600 

in my original post, I was thinking in the category that one SVS PB-13 Ultra would yield exponentially better result than two RW-12Ds.

I can think of no NIB $600 sub I would rather have than two RW-12ds when on sale for $300.
Yes. He probably would be better off with 1 $2000 sub than 2 RW12s.
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post #940 of 2036
3/3/13 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

There is nothing wrong with achieving a flat response and modifying to taste (see "house curve," for example). The point is to start from some standard, and go from there. And sometimes small changes in speaker position (for example) can make a big difference.

And it can be fun.

I guess I shouldn't mention that you can use the mic you have for MCACC or Audyssey with REW. It won't be precise, but it will give you a chance to play with the program a little.

In case, some day, you may have an interest.

wink.gif

 

Also, in addition to the links to Archaea's music files, I'd like to offer this:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1412846/the-ultimate-bass-demo-disc

 

 

Thanks, LastButNotLeast for,the bass thread and for letting me that either AVR mic would work . . . Now that is good info to know.  I was wrongly suspicioning I would have to get a mic to work with the laptop running REW.  Thanks for the tip, especially if I get some down time and push some other hobby interests aside to play with REW.  Appreciate it.

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post #941 of 2036
3/3/13 at 8:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetor View Post

I have one RW-12d in my home office setup.  I have a very different sub in my HT . . . much more powerful, but much more expensive too..  

Whether you need two or not is decided differently for different people.  If I were to have just one setup and only one sub and already had one RW-12D, I might consider a second one depending on my room size and the fronts.  

But, if you were able to spend more and have just one sub in the room, and could afford the cash outlay at the time, I would recommend you look at one larger sub configuration.  The sub or subs is in HT is one place where quite often a significantly higher outlay in $ can translate as a force multiplier on outcome.

As has been pointed out, knowing your budget, setup (speakers, configuration, room-size and layout, and AVR, etc.), and desired outcome would help us to make better recommendations on whether to purchase a second RW-12D or go in another direction.

Even if you purchased to simply accomplish symmetry, a side benefit would be better bass if both are properly eq'd and correctly located in your room.  Your bass would be multiplied.  Though one great sub would more often than not will have even better end impact than two good budget subs together.

An empty box would get you symmetry.  :-).    But, for some people, symmetry and order are as important as outcome, and there is nothing wrong with that.  We all buy for our own reasons.

edited:  just,saw your later post; a second sub would not be necessary, but would add a little more if you felt you needed it.  What size is your room?  You might want to spend the $ on some other stuff, but a matching second sub is always nice in about any configuration.  It sure won't hurt.  :-)

The issue with my living room is that it is an open floor plan leading to the kitchen. The actually area where the HT is and seating is 15' length x 14' wide and vaulted ceiling. From wall to wall living room to the kitchen is approximately 55' length and width varies from 14' to 20'. I was thinking if I don't get another sub, I would get 4 more speakers two for heights and two for surround back. I just don't know which speakers to go with yet.
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post #942 of 2036
3/3/13 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

The issue with my living room is that it is an open floor plan leading to the kitchen. The actually area where the HT is and seating is 15' length x 14' wide and vaulted ceiling. From wall to wall living room to the kitchen is approximately 55' length and width varies from 14' to 20'. I was thinking if I don't get another sub, I would get 4 more speakers two for heights and two for surround back. I just don't know which speakers to go with yet.
Are you saying your kitchen is roughly 40x20? Do you have a 9.1 receiver so that you can listen to the heights and back surround at the same time or are you going to choose between them according to preference?
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post #943 of 2036
3/3/13 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Are you saying your kitchen is roughly 40x20? Do you have a 9.1 receiver so that you can listen to the heights and back surround at the same time or are you going to choose between them according to preference?

We live in a small house. I believe its about 1400 square feet if that. Built in the 80's. Yes, I do have a 9.2 receiver biggrin.gif. I've been looking on ebay for some Mirage Nanosats or something similar.
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post #944 of 2036
3/3/13 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post


I think I can get away with $600 dollar as long as the wife doesn't know it cost that much lol. My current set up is as follows:
............ 

I think the main reason why I want another sub is to put it on the right side of my tv stand so both sides are equal. There is an empty space on the side where there is not sub lol biggrin.gif

 

Budget will be your determining,factor.  In the first sentence of your earlier post you say,"$600 as long as the wife doesn't know it."  Do you mean $300 in addition to the $300 you just bought, leaving you with $300 left to spend?  Or, are you saying you have still $600 more to spend after you bought the RW-12D?

 

in any case, I do not recommend you do so,without your wife knowing . . . If you tell her, she might approve additional fund to do more.  Caution, Gus . . . No sense in creating an opportunity for a fight when a real need for one might drop up.

 

you are not going to get 4 powerful speakers for $300 NiB, unless you look for pre-owned.

 

based on your less than ideal room arrangement and open floor plan, you might need more sub before you need speakers.  The wides and heights should be after you are set up correctly with 7.1.  

 

But, if you only have $300 another on sale RW-12d might really help you with the open floor plan to multiply bass effect in the room with an open end where HT is (not the kitchen).

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post #945 of 2036
3/3/13 at 9:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetor View Post

Budget will be your determining,factor.  In the first sentence of your earlier post you say,"$600 as long as the wife doesn't know it."  Do you mean $300 in addition to the $300 you just bought, leaving you with $300 left to spend?  Or, are you saying you have still $600 more to spend after you bought the RW-12D?

in any case, I do not recommend you do so,without your wife knowing . . . If you tell her, she might approve additional fund to do more.  Caution, Gus . . . No sense in creating an opportunity for a fight when a real need for one might drop up.

you are not going to get 4 powerful speakers for $300 NiB, unless you look for pre-owned.

based on your less than ideal room arrangement and open floor plan, you might need more sub before you need speakers.  The wides and heights should be after you are set up correctly with 7.1.  

But, if you only have $300 another on sale RW-12d might really help you with the open floor plan to multiply bass effect in the room with an open end where HT is (not the kitchen).

I've got $600 or more to spend. I talked to the wife about it, and she might agree to spend more, but I suppose I've got to wait till she decides if we should go for it or not. I've been eyeing the SVS subs for a while. I bought the RW-12D almost a year ago.
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post #946 of 2036
3/3/13 at 9:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I've got $600 or more to spend. I talked to the wife about it, and she might agree to spend more, but I suppose I've got to wait till she decides if we should go for it or not. I've been eyeing the SVS subs for a while. I bought the RW-12D almost a year ago.
Frankly, Im confused. There is one important thing that we need to know. Are you getting a sub for looks or because you are not happy with the bass of the rw?
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post #947 of 2036
3/3/13 at 10:07pm
How often does this sub go on sale?
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post #948 of 2036
3/3/13 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mawnkey View Post

How often does this sub go on sale?
It varies but nearly every week.
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post #949 of 2036
3/3/13 at 10:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Frankly, Im confused. There is one important thing that we need to know. Are you getting a sub for looks or because you are not happy with the bass of the rw?

I want another sub for the looks, and if I can get better sound as well wink.gif.
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post #950 of 2036
3/3/13 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I want another sub for the looks, and if I can get better sound as well wink.gif.
Then I will stick by original recommendation. What could look better than twin rws and you wont have to spend the whole $600. It will also give you the best sound improvement for your money. You could then spend the other $300 on 4 speakers to get the 9.2 up and running.
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post #951 of 2036
3/3/13 at 11:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Then I will stick by original recommendation. What could look better than twin rws and you wont have to spend the whole $600. It will also give you the best sound improvement for your money. You could then spend the other $300 on 4 speakers to get the 9.2 up and running.

That's what my wife said as well. She said why get a different sub aesthetically, it won't look right! So, I'm going to wait it out and see if this sub goes back on sale for $280 like it did last week.

Question?
Can anyone recommend a TV raiser ? I currently have the 25C on the TV stand, and the speaker is so tall, that it blocks 3 inches off the screen. I was thinking of buying a TV stand with a mount, but those are over $300. The wife suggested a TV Raiser or a large block of wood rolleyes.gif So, any suggestions. Sorry for deviating from the subject.
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post #952 of 2036
3/4/13 at 4:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

That's what my wife said as well. She said why get a different sub aesthetically, it won't look right! So, I'm going to wait it out and see if this sub goes back on sale for $280 like it did last week.

Question?
Can anyone recommend a TV raiser ? I currently have the 25C on the TV stand, and the speaker is so tall, that it blocks 3 inches off the screen. I was thinking of buying a TV stand with a mount, but those are over $300. The wife suggested a TV Raiser or a large block of wood rolleyes.gif So, any suggestions. Sorry for deviating from the subject.
I only paid $150 for my tv stand with mount for a 60" Panasonic. You just have to look around. I got mine at overstock.com.
http://www.amazon.com/Aviton-Panel-Stand-Integrated-Mount/dp/B0041A1PNG/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1362400647&sr=8-13&keywords=tv+stand+with+mount
Edited by Bond 007 - 3/4/13 at 4:42am
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post #953 of 2036
3/4/13 at 4:42am
After reading some of the discussions on 2 subs, I thought I’d go ahead and add my 2 cents worth on why I bought two.

The area that my 7.2 audio system is in is 21 feet width and 17.5 feet long. The vaulted ceiling starts at 8 feet tall and I’m guessing ends at around 10 to 11 feet.

My front speakers are a pair of Infinity CS 3008 speakers that I’ve had for many years (still love these speakers). Two different specs I’ve seen show the lower range at 39Hz or 45Hz. My center and satellites are Mirage Nanosats that the specs show the lower range ending at 110Hz.

The fronts have a good amount of bass, almost to the point that I wasn’t sure whether I should get subs or not (Glad I decided to now). So my idea was to fill the room with bass by placing the subs near the back corners of the room ( I’m guessing that they are at 115 degrees on each side). I didn’t feel that one sub would have done what I wanted, I could afford two and currently there isn’t any spousal approval needed (Although there is a strong candidate).

Audio systems have been a lifelong hobby for me, at one time I considered myself an Audiophile. Now not so much and I’ve been out of the scene for many years. I want my listening/home theater area to be visually appealing and sonically appealing. Speaker placements are not prefect and neither is the room, thankfully my new AVR allows me to compensate for those.

All in all I’m very, very pleased with my new AV system and I find it very enjoyable to watch movies, TV or music.
Edited by SoundsDif - 3/4/13 at 5:16am
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post #954 of 2036
3/4/13 at 5:58am
$319


Edit: The home page shows it on sale for $319, but when i click the item, it is still 649.
Edited by Titan Uranus - 3/4/13 at 6:04am
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post #955 of 2036
3/4/13 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

That's what my wife said as well. She said why get a different sub aesthetically, it won't look right! So, I'm going to wait it out and see if this sub goes back on sale for $280 like it did last week.

Question?
Can anyone recommend a TV raiser ? I currently have the 25C on the TV stand, and the speaker is so tall, that it blocks 3 inches off the screen. I was thinking of buying a TV stand with a mount, but those are over $300. The wife suggested a TV Raiser or a large block of wood rolleyes.gif So, any suggestions. Sorry for deviating from the subject.

One of those 1950's coffee table books works a treat but it must still have the dust cover intact or it looks tacky. tongue.gif

Nothing wrong with a couple of 2.12" nailed (or glued together with a cloth wrap of choice. With lumber, one has choice of size and height as different thicknesses are chosen and married together.

We have one television (60") on top of our center channel speaker box and another is on top of the cable box (42") with spacers between the television stand and the cable box so the cable box breathing holes are not blocked.

And allow me, if you have a $600.00 budget, go with better than the RW-12d for two reasons, deeper response with more authority which translates into a bigger smile factor.
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post #956 of 2036
3/4/13 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundsDif View Post

I want my listening/home theater area to be visually appealing and sonically appealing. Speaker placements are not prefect and neither is the room, thankfully my new AVR allows me to compensate for those.

All in all I’m very, very pleased with my new AV system and I find it very enjoyable to watch movies, TV or music.

Aaaaaaah, and a breath of fresh air wafts through the room.

...................biggrin.gif
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post #957 of 2036
3/4/13 at 9:33am
Price is back to $349
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post #958 of 2036
3/4/13 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

Can anyone recommend a TV raiser ? I currently have the 25C on the TV stand, and the speaker is so tall, that it blocks 3 inches off the screen. I was thinking of buying a TV stand with a mount, but those are over $300. The wife suggested a TV Raiser or a large block of wood rolleyes.gif So, any suggestions. Sorry for deviating from the subject.

See this TV riser I am using. I now have a 50" Panasonic Plasma on top of it, no problems. So it will carry a good bit of weight.

Not sure if the 25C will fit. You'll have to check the measurements.
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post #959 of 2036
3/4/13 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I thinking about getting a second sub. I already own a RW-12D, and I am wondering if I should get another one or a different sub?

Definitely go with another RW-12d. I went with a second one and it is astonishing brute output.
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post #960 of 2036
3/4/13 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

See this TV riser I am using. I now have a 50" Panasonic Plasma on top of it, no problems. So it will carry a good bit of weight.

Not sure if the 25C will fit. You'll have to check the measurements.

Yeah, I saw that TV raiser and I liked it a lot, but it won't work for my Samsung Plasma PN50A650 weights about 87 lbs without the pedestal, and with the pedestal is about 95 lbs.
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