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Owners Thread Cambridge Audio 651r/751r - Page 6

post #151 of 606
No.

Aspect ratio is considered a TV/monitor function and generally does it best anyway. Unless, of course, you have a dedicated scaler, which you do, then you definitely want THAT to do it, from a techie POV.

Unless you are looking to simplify for the tech adverse, then back to the TV again.

My TiVo has a basic ZOOM function too, for 480i. Have you checked out your DVR/STB for that function?

I know the Anthem MRX AVR's and Arcam AVR's don't, as well. You are going to have to dig into manuals and forums, it will NOT be on the spec sheets and dealers will be useless with a question like this one.

If you insist on Aspect ratios being available on your AVR, it's almost certainly going to be a Japanese type brand(Onkyo/Denon/Pioneer/etc). They LOVE loading up on features. But I have no idea about who/what models.

By the way, the main chips may be the same, but I would still bet your DVDO is still better, especially if you consider functionality.

P.S. Is Denon Japanese designed? Oh well, close enough to lump together AFAI am concerned.
post #152 of 606
I thought I should mention something that is starting to disturb me. I am well aware every manufacturer uses distributors.

But, it appears Cambridge Audio has "handed off" the USA to a distributor called "Audio Plus Services".

When I say "handed off" I really mean they just assume "Audio Plus Services" did EVERYTHING.

I had kinda let this go. But it seems quite clear that although polite, CA is VERY quick to remind me to contact "Audio Plus Services".

This includes my latest inquiry into the new FW. I was given no information except a link to contact "Audio Plus Services". and Regards.

I also think it's VERY IMPORTANT to mention that your WARRANTY seems to be from "Audio Plus Services" and NOT Cambridge Audio. Which explains why there is no detailed information about the Warranty in the manual OR on their website.

As a Salesman, I will hold my tongue about what I would tend to think of this type of arrangement. It hopefully is too early to give an opinion yet and "Audio Plus Services" may be stand behind the products they.....represent....at levels beyond what the typical manufacturer ever would even consider ... or not.

Although, I may have given a "little" opinion to them when I told them they should put "Audio Plus Services" on their products instead of Cambridge Audio. Ed took it in stride. Stiff upper lip and all that good stuff. biggrin.gif
post #153 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean-l View Post

I thought I should mention something that is starting to disturb me. I am well aware every manufacturer uses distributors.

But, it appears Cambridge Audio has "handed off" the USA to a distributor called "Audio Plus Services".

When I say "handed off" I really mean they just assume "Audio Plus Services" did EVERYTHING.

I had kinda let this go. But it seems quite clear that although polite, CA is VERY quick to remind me to contact "Audio Plus Services".

This includes my latest inquiry into the new FW. I was given no information except a link to contact "Audio Plus Services". and Regards.

I also think it's VERY IMPORTANT to mention that your WARRANTY seems to be from "Audio Plus Services" and NOT Cambridge Audio. Which explains why there is no detailed information about the Warranty in the manual OR on their website.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of this, and while I agree with you that the majority of manufacturers license distributors, I also know that manufacturers prefer to stay in business and have contracts that stipulate the licensee's specific responsibilities. Ultimately if Cambridge Audio wants to protect the U.S. market, they need to ensure their licensee is performing as expected.

It is worrisome, as is the requirement that firmware updates be performed by your dealer. My dealer - theoretically an authorized dealer since they're listed through CA's site - had to order the product for me, and mentioned that I should look into firmware updates when I get home. If I have to return to them just to have them do what they told me to do, the process seems to be broken. Or at least not at the premium level of service that Cambridge Audio implies with their general marketing.

Could you share the info for Audio Plus Services with us? I don't recall seeing any info on Cambridge Audio's site about this arrangement, and it seems that Cambridge Audio's site probably shouldn't direct me to authorized dealers if I'm not buying through a direct manufacturer / dealer / warrantied purchase. I'm reasonably savvy when it comes to this type of subject, but I feel mislead about it based on CA's site.

Mike
post #154 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimanyi View Post

Are you talking about a zoom function for the image aspect ratio on your television? Just curious. I don't have an answer for you, as I'll be setting up my AVR tonight when I get home.

Mike

So msimanyi, did you get your 751r set up yet? How is the sound quality. Does the 2-channel upsampling audio live up to the hype? Did you hook up your HDMI sources? Is there any HDMI handshake issues?
BTW, both my DISH receiver and my Panasonic GT50 plasma have a poorly implemented zoom function that overdoes it in predefined stages. That's why I like the smooth zoom on my DVDO, because I can zoom exactly as needed for my needs, without overdoing it. If only the 751r had this function...
post #155 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean-l View Post


By the way, the main chips may be the same, but I would still bet your DVDO is still better, especially if you consider functionality.

P.S. Is Denon Japanese designed? Oh well, close enough to lump together AFAI am concerned.

Denon and Marantz are currently sister companies. They were even connected to McIntosh until 2012. They are Japanese owned by D&M Holdings, and designed in Japan. Interestingly, they don't seem to resemble each other in either cosmetics or even function. They seem to have done a good job of differentiating themselves from each other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%26M_Holdings
post #156 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazishere View Post

So msimanyi, did you get your 751r set up yet? How is the sound quality. Does the 2-channel upsampling audio live up to the hype? Did you hook up your HDMI sources? Is there any HDMI handshake issues?
BTW, both my DISH receiver and my Panasonic GT50 plasma have a poorly implemented zoom function that overdoes it in predefined stages. That's why I like the smooth zoom on my DVDO, because I can zoom exactly as needed for my needs, without overdoing it. If only the 751r had this function...

So far I'm impressed with the sound quality. It's a substantial improvement over my former Denon AVR. I'm trying to break it in before I sit down for any meaningful listening, but I definitely appreciate the already obvious improvements. (I also *hugely* appreciate the Dynamic Volume feature. Reaching for the remote to mute ads during live TV shouldn't be necessary any longer.)

HDMI hasn't been a problem at all. I use Blue Jeans cable's Belden HDMI cables, though I doubt that makes much - if any - difference.

I'm not someone who generally trusts putting more processors in the signal path, but I am running all the HDMI into the receiver and running a single lead to the TV. I also played with the Cambridge setup to see if adding video processing to my Directv DVR made any difference, and I didn't notice any changes. I currently have the DVR, 752BD and AppleTV hooked up via HDMI and so far everything switches and syncs just fine. Setting up my Harmony remote was a bit frustrating, but that's just due to Harmony's buggy software (at least on my MacBook Pro)...

I didn't notice any problems with two-channel audio. I *did* compare both the analog and digital versions - briefly - of some music through the 752BD, and clearly the analog inputs are notably superior. I also compared those with my Sony DVD player (which I'm retaining for the rare SACD), and at least initially I have to give a slight nod to the analog section of the 752. Again, this is all with very few hours.

Have you experimented with the Service menu on your GT50? I seem to recall there was some control on overscanning there - but I could easily be wrong about that.

One small nit to pick - I'd like to be able to set the default display setting to Off. I don't see any way to do that though, so I have to turn it off manually each time I start up the system (at least when I'm watching at night.)

Mike
post #157 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimanyi View Post


It is worrisome, as is the requirement that firmware updates be performed by your dealer. My dealer - theoretically an authorized dealer since they're listed through CA's site - had to order the product for me, and mentioned that I should look into firmware updates when I get home. If I have to return to them just to have them do what they told me to do, the process seems to be broken. Or at least not at the premium level of service that Cambridge Audio implies with their general marketing.

Mike

Unfortunately, a few years ago this was pretty much the standard. It could've been worse, many required you to ship the unit to some far away place. Costing you a small fortune and taking weeks . Marantz was HORRENDOUSLY famous for it. I was REALLY worried it would require shipping to some place up in Quebec where Audio Plus Services is based out of.

Well, the FW issue starts poorly right away because it is RS-232 (or serial) based. This OLD connection somehow holds on by it's fingernails with old timers in audio, even though an ethernet connection can do the same thing, so much more, AND is the future of everything. In computers, RS-232 is nearly as dead as Elvis, so few people even HAVE the connection anymore and then need to use a RS-232 to USB converter. Which I happen to have because Anthem insists on using RS-232 for ARC. The other problem is even if you DO get a converter, if you have a MAC it can get complicated AGAIN, with windows modulators and a copy of Windows, if their load program only works with Windows.

The MOST amusing thing, however, is that the current Audio enthusiast market is really based in the 80's. Those few dealers still around are at that age where they aren't all that into these kind of things. tongue.gif

Imagine how much easier this would be if your AVR was connected to your network, went online once a week/month or so, if it found an approved update on a specific ip address, it would put up a window telling you it's available, some details on what it fixes, and ask you if you want to download it.

That's what the Japanese brands are well into implementing across their entire product lines right NOW. But then, they do not sound like this either.

This is another one of those compromises of owning a CA. The good news is that I don't see FW updates going longer than a year or so anyway. If you don't care you can just wait a while and do one final FW update maybe around late next year.
post #158 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean-l View Post

Well, the FW issue starts poorly right away because it is RS-232 (or serial) based. This OLD connection somehow holds on by it's fingernails with old timers in audio, even though an ethernet connection can do the same thing, so much more, AND is the future of everything. In computers, RS-232 is nearly as dead as Elvis, so few people even HAVE the connection anymore and then need to use a RS-232 to USB converter. Which I happen to have because Anthem insists on using RS-232 for ARC. The other problem is even if you DO get a converter, if you have a MAC it can get complicated AGAIN, with windows modulators and a copy of Windows, if their load program only works with Windows.

It turns out I have a USB to Serial convertor to support a standalone engine management unit I use in one of my cars. It also happens to be the one that a bunch of Mac users ended up discovering actually works with the Mac, and I've happily been using it in my Windows environment (Win 7 running under Parallels on the Mac) without any issues whatsoever. If I get to the point of needing new firmware, it seems likely up to the task.

Yes, I think you're correct that I'll be at the dealer making sure we have everything we need, actually doing the install myself there with their supervision. Hopefully CA doesn't revise firmware all that often...

As a brief aside, the 752BD has an ethernet connection and unless I've misinterpreted some of what I've read, downloads and installs firmware updates without a trip to the dealer. (It is, however, a licensed Oppo internally according to the reviews I've located.)

Mike
post #159 of 606
Hi Chemguy62, I have the exact same setup as yours and am also biamping with b&w 804'S. I had the latest FW1.51 installed on the 751R and I am happy to report that this has fixed the 'muffled' noise when using stereo direct mode. I hope that helps. I do however wish to ask if when you biamped the speakers originally whether the bi amp LED on the amps display lit up? mine does not although it is connected correctly as recommended , settings to decode 5.1 and biamp in the settings? Any insight would be appreciated.
post #160 of 606
Quote:
Hi Chemguy62, I have the exact same setup as yours and am also biamping with b&w 804'S. I had the latest FW1.51 installed on the 751R and I am happy to report that this has fixed the 'muffled' noise when using stereo direct mode. I hope that helps. I do however wish to ask if when you biamped the speakers originally whether the bi amp LED on the amps display lit up? mine does not although it is connected correctly as recommended , settings to decode 5.1 and biamp in the settings? Any insight would be appreciated.

I have 751R and um also bi-amping my mains. There is no indication on the front display panel when bi-amping is enabled.
Do you have 1.51 FW upgrade files? I need to update mine coz the nearest authorised dealer is 1100 miles away and I don't want to ship it.
post #161 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

I have 751R and um also bi-amping my mains. There is no indication on the front display panel when bi-amping is enabled.
Do you have 1.51 FW upgrade files? I need to update mine coz the nearest authorised dealer is 1100 miles away and I don't want to ship it.

Hi, on page 11 of the user manual it shows a graphics of all the possible LED indicators associated with the front panel display.. " Bi AMP" is shown as an LED. Just wondering if anyone's is lit when bi amping. mine does not light up.

Sorry I don't have the upgrades files as it was done by the locally by the Cambridge Audio service centre. I really wish I could help you with that.
post #162 of 606
I see. I don't think I've seen that light on the front display when mains are bi-amped. I will check it again today.

No worries about the files. Thanks though. smile.gif
post #163 of 606
@Chemguy62

I have a question about the subwoofer internal test tone on 751R. I have noticed that the subwoofer test tone is recorded roughly 7-8dB lower than the same for all the other channels. Is it the same with your avr?
post #164 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

@Chemguy62

I have a question about the subwoofer internal test tone on 751R. I have noticed that the subwoofer test tone is recorded roughly 7-8dB lower than the same for all the other channels. Is it the same with your avr?

Yes, I've done this test a number of times and keep getting 8 db lower as well. It also tells me that my subwoofer is "out of phase" when to my ear, it is in phase, producing the fullest base.
post #165 of 606
Thanks for validating. I checked with CA support directly and they came back saying Azur AVRs use white noise instead of pink noise to set speaker levels including that for the sub. May be it's coz of that. I didn't bother further validating it coz there is no difference in play back. Subwoofer test tone on avia runs fine though.

About the "Bi-Amp" light on the front display, it does not come on even if you have bi-amped your mains. I've checked it. This is a bug. And unfortunately CA missed this bug in their new 1.51 FW upgrade. Terrible testing team they have, I must say.
post #166 of 606
Whoever designed the front display should be hung by his n*ts. OR the manager who FORCED the engineers to USE this front display panel should be fired.

Personally, I'm guessing number 2. No decent engineer is going to think this display is adequate. I hope this was an already existent display panel they "had" to use. If they actually DESIGNED and ORDERED this front display for these specific AVR's.........get the pink slips out. It's time to can people. You CANNOT continue to employ people who have that BAD of a thought process.

AND THEY KNEW IT. HOW?

SO the thought process was.....

We all sit less than 5 feet away from our AVR. Right? So that tiny volume display on the right is just BARELY big enough.

Oh, most people are MORE than 5 feet away? Opps! Weeeellllll, I guess we could display volume on the "SLIGHTLY" larger bottom line when you adjust volume. Which of course, basically makes the dedicated volume section -- useless. NOW you can see the volume for a few seconds from 8 feet away. What? A lot of people are MORE than 8 feet away? Oh. Maybe we should have made a volume pop-up display, Huh? Well, crimony, what do you want from a $2300 and $3000 AVR? We never realized anyone would need to read the volume from more than 5 feet. We probably should have had someone test it in their home, instead of on their desk at work. After all, it was only 2 YEARS, from when we first showed the design to the actual release of the product. You couldn't possibly expect us to be able to modify the display panel in only 2 YEARS.

CRAZZZZY!

I have NEVER seen an AVR that is so Great biggrin.gif (physical build quality, video and sound quality, Dynamic EQ and Volume) and terrible mad.gif (front display, 2EQ, no pop-up OSD volume, remote control, Info button, volume buttons that are "up" and "down" in OSD menu, FW update process) at the same time.
post #167 of 606
I find this kinda funny. I don't care about the front display. I'd permanently turn it off if I could.

And I don't care about Audyssey, so the version included is fine for me since it allows the dynamic volume control which is the feature I find useful.

That said, I understand my opinion is just from one person and I understand how a lot of other potential customers could be won over with those improvements...

Mike
Edited by msimanyi - 7/17/13 at 8:24pm
post #168 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by black lichen View Post

Hi Chemguy62, I have the exact same setup as yours and am also biamping with b&w 804'S. I had the latest FW1.51 installed on the 751R and I am happy to report that this has fixed the 'muffled' noise when using stereo direct mode. I hope that helps. I do however wish to ask if when you biamped the speakers originally whether the bi amp LED on the amps display lit up? mine does not although it is connected correctly as recommended , settings to decode 5.1 and biamp in the settings? Any insight would be appreciated.

Have you noticed any others differences since the update?
post #169 of 606
Hi Azur 751R/651R users, I have the necessary update files for 1.51 FW. Can anyone tell me how to hookup my laptop with the AVR?
The instructions document says the following;

Quote:
Connect the unit to your PC or RS232 adaptor using a crossover (null modem cable). A
straight through cable will NOT work.
Note if using a USB to RS232 adaptor these often have cable built in, you will normally still
need to connect an extra RS232 crossover cable to this or again programming may not work.

My laptop doesn't have the serial port. Can I use USB to serial cable? And if so what is the point of further attaching another rs232 adapter?
post #170 of 606
I just want to confirm FW #'s

For those with FW updates(or NEW owners), can you please confirm the latest FW #'s....

1.51 MCU/ 1.45 HDMI / 1.09 DSP

do we all agree these are the latest? Or any different/newer?
post #171 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmunawar9 View Post

Arcam 360 with small speakers and Arcam 400 with Floor standing.
NAD T748 & T757

Hmm. Two years ago, I tested a NAD T747 because it was on sale for $599. I was comparing it against a HK AVR 745 (their flagship from 2006). I did not find that much of an increase in performance and actually found several bugs especially with video scaler, etc.

I returned the NAD T747. Later on, I bought the HK AVR 7550HD and returned that too. Wasn't impressed.

Then I bought a used NAD T763 (pre-HDMI, 6.1 only) for just $200 on craigslist and that rocked. With real 100W/channel and torroidal transformer it is a different beast compared to the lower end T747. Later on, I bought a T775HD when that went on sale for $1299. It is the same pedigree as the T763 but has 7.1 and Audyssey MultiEQ XT, and HDMI audio and OSD through HDMI but no video scaler (which is good since I don't want my video to be messed with). The 775HD sounds just as good as the T763 and just adds features. 100watts per channel with all channels driven.

I think if you are comparing a Cambridge Audio 651, you should compare it to either the T775 or the T777.

If you are comparing the 751, you should compare it to either the T785 or the T787.

Of course, the regular price on these receivers are high, but on sale sometimes, you can find them lower.
post #172 of 606
Quote:
I just want to confirm FW #'s

For those with FW updates(or NEW owners), can you please confirm the latest FW #'s....

1.51 MCU/ 1.45 HDMI / 1.09 DSP

do we all agree these are the latest? Or any different/newer?

Yes 1.51 is for MCU, rest are the same.
post #173 of 606
How did you got the firmware?
post #174 of 606
Quote:
How did you got the firmware?

I have my sources wink.gif. Do you work for CA?
post #175 of 606
No, I don't work for CA. I'd just like to get this and maybe upcoming firmware without going to my dealer.
My dealer also has to contact CA and / or the german importer. So, it really sucks!

I'd like to keep my 751R, but with the official CA service I don't know how much longer I can live with that situation.

Do you have a change log too?

One more thing, there is no doubt about the incredible and so dynamic sound quality of the 751R!
post #176 of 606
Quote:
No, I don't work for CA. I'd just like to get this and maybe upcoming firmware without going to my dealer.
My dealer also has to contact CA and / or the german importer. So, it really sucks!

I'd like to keep my 751R, but with the official CA service I don't know how much longer I can live with that situation.

Do you have a change log too?

One more thing, there is no doubt about the incredible and so dynamic sound quality of the 751R!

Yes I have A-to-Z of the new FW. And yes I do have the change log file also. Btw CA sucks at the FW upgrade method. It is plain rubbish. I can share the files. Send me your email in PM.
post #177 of 606
Thank you, then I can update "The Beast" smile.gif
post #178 of 606
I'll probably be upgrading FW this next week. I'm in no hurry biggrin.gif Be careful what you wish for - First is the worst - kinda deal to me.

My dealer is getting a hold of a serial null cable. We used to make them back when I was in IT. This is real high school, computers in your basement, old school cheap company IT, 1992 - type stuff here.

My dealer said they didn't send the instructions WITH the files the first time, and they are a little void, at that. This is partly what happens when you insist on creating a middleman in your Customer Service system.


Also I found another review...

Sound & Vision wrote one up earlier this month, posted on July 8th.

So that's...

Home Theater.com (which I guess is merging with S&V, btw.)
AV Max
Sound & VIsion
.....all VERY positive on sound and video(the important two things), S&V is more willing to be critical about this AVR's lack of "Ergonomics".

P.S. Every time I write/say "My dealer" it feels a little creepy. I guess I watch too much TV.
post #179 of 606
Quote:
Thank you, then I can update "The Beast" smile.gif

Post back when you are done updating. Um still waiting for my null modem cable.
post #180 of 606
Quote:
My dealer said they didn't send the instructions WITH the files the first time, and they are a little void, at that. This is partly what happens when you insist on creating a middleman in your Customer Service system.

Like I said, I have the complete files with me. You want em; send your email across in PM. No need waiting for your dealer to get back to you. He won't serve you any different files.
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