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New Intel CPU looks very interesting. Is this the BEST NEW CPU for 2013 ? - Page 2

post #31 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

You are partly correct.
Read the thread again.
www.avsforum.com/t/1441895/new-vector-ssd-looks-very-interesting-is-this-the-best-new-ssd-for-2013
You asked a question and I answered it with my personal opinion. No, I do not think a $160 ssd that is literally twice as expensive as very good $80 ocz/Samsung/crucial/Intel ssd is the "best" ssd in a htpc forum.
Then you actually took issue with me questioning the $160 (twice as expensive) ssd as possibly not being the "best" choice for a htpc forum. (Btw I feel the same way about the overpriced for htpc Samsung pro ssd)
Pretty ironic given your above comments.

I get it. I never took offense to your points. I even went out of my way to say I agreed or that you were correct on certain things.

The only offense I took was you were a bit aggressive in your stance. Providing your input or opinion is fine. But you took offense to the fact the thread existed, questioning it's appropriateness in this forum.

I do believe talk about $150 SSD drives is appropriate when many spend that on HDD's for storage. It's not like the price is anymore than we've been paying for HDD's for 10 years.

I thought it was interesting that the Samsung840 Pro and Vector are two of the best performing drives on market- and both us a proprietary SSD controller to differentiate them from standard issue Sandforce/Marvel SSD's. Also that SSD performance has increased to the point where it is beginning to saturate SATA3 interfaces. Just discussion.

Not once did anyone say it was the best choice for a HTPC build, or that people should use it or go buy it. You imagined that or created that perception then began to battle against it. Even when I agreed with most of what you were saying you continued your arguements and tried denounce both OCZ and the Vector from even consideration for any application. You claimed to be unbiased but your bias was clear. It's like you could not see the distinction between simply discussing a new product versus recommending it. You took a lot of effort to bash on it- or suggest it was not a good choice for HTPC when no one was saying it was a good choice. It was just a conversation about a new product launch.

I actually enjoyed the discussion with you. I'm sorry you took so much offense to it. It really was not my intention.
post #32 of 86
Thread Starter 
Ugh. I don't think you really got it.

Forget it. Read your thread again as your statements are not accurate.
post #33 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Ding! Ding! Winner!
Just wanted to point out how absurd a Htpc forum could get if we let it. And we shouldn't, imo.
Imo, the htpc-centric nature of this htpc forum at avs is what gives it it's strength. Lose that and you will lose a lot of people. Because agree or not this place is not comparable to the other pc forums out there. Nor should it pretend or want to be as that's not it's place in the tech world.
Long live avs htpc! smile.gif

But everyone agrees with you. Including me.

It's not happening and your fear is misplaced. Talking about a Samsung840 or Vector or any SSD for $150 with better performance is not a crime. It's interesting. (at least to me).
I'm not going to install one in my HTPC. I doubt you will either. Talking about a new product does not mean we must buy it or use it.

Your overly concerned with a noob reading something and assuming he needs it. This fear is not based on reality.

There is plenty of good posters and good advice to steer someone clear, and promote high value.

It's the high value mindset in this forum that makes it the best IMO. I have it. You have it. Talking about a higher end product won't destroy that.

No one was suggesting you add it to your recommended hardware guide.
post #34 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Ugh. I don't think you really got it.
Forget it. Read your thread again as your statements are not accurate.

I don't think it matters anymore. We are breaching the territory of semantics again. Let's move on.
post #35 of 86
Why don't you two bury the hatchet, I'm sure you could find much better things to do with your time . . . like explaining the details of flexraid to me smile.gif
post #36 of 86
Note: I resisted entering this thread last night. I did not want to take the bait. But I did chuckle at it.
I guess I mostly entered it now to give some insight for the reason of this one.
Sorry to dig up old news.
post #37 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Why don't you two bury the hatchet, I'm sure you could find much better things to do with your time . .smile.gif

I am trying tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

. . . like explaining the details of flexraid to me smile.gif

I tried a little.

I am no expert.

You thinking you want it ? Or did you already get?
post #38 of 86
Altaïr broke two tenets of the Creed, but arrogantly dismissed the warning against his actions, confident in his mastery as an Assassin biggrin.gif

post #39 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Ding! Ding! Winner!
Just wanted to point out how absurd a Htpc forum could get if we let it. And we shouldn't, imo.
Imo, the htpc-centric nature of this htpc forum at avs is what gives it it's strength. Lose that and you will lose a lot of people. Because agree or not this place is not comparable to the other pc forums out there. Nor should it pretend or want to be as that's not it's place in the tech world.
Long live avs htpc! smile.gif

You have significant difficulty in communicating effectively with those you disagree with, Assassin. The "name calling" was warranted, because quite frankly you do look like an ass when you do this sort of thing. Like it or not, you are in a position where people will listen to what you say, thanks to your past contributions on this forum. Creating an entire thread with the intent of making someone else look foolish, or mocking that person, does not reflect well upon you. You can disagree with Mfusick over the relevance of what he posts, but you are not the sole arbiter of what this forum is for or about. An HTPC can mean a great many things to a great many people. Here's just a small sampling of the varied topics that can fall under the "HTPC" umbrella:

Watching/recording Live TV
Playing back DVD/Bluray
Ripping DVD/Bluray
Transcoding/compressing movie files
Playing back 4K video
Watching Netflix/Amazon video
Big screen gaming
Media Center extenders
XBOX 360
PlayStation 3
Wii U
Windows 7/8/Linux/MacOS
Android/iOS/Windows Phone 7/8
Video/music apps for phones/consoles/Win8
Music playback
XBMC/WMC/Plex
Media storage
Component comparison (hdd/sdd/cpu/mobo/psu/chassis)

I'm sure there are countless other topics that are relevant to something as ambiguously defined as "HTPC" that I haven't even though to mention here. If the attitude is going to be that anyone asking a question outside of your limited definition of HTPC should be mocked, then perhaps you need to reconsider participating? We had a similar problem when you tried to claim that ordering multiple hard drives in one set from a single shop was not a concern for an HTPC enthusiast, trying to make an absolute claim that was simply invalid. Yet you insisted it was valid simply because "most" HTPC enthusiasts didn't ever order more than 1 or 2 drives at a time. I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about computers or any other subject. I strongly suggest that you take the same approach, and learn to accept the opinions and views of others, because your tone, and the contents of this thread, really tells me that you don't respect what others view as relevant. That's awful bad for business for someone who is trying to make a profit selling those "guides".
post #40 of 86
If your looking for a funny laugh:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287333



I hope I am not that bad. haha...
post #41 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

You have significant difficulty in communicating effectively with those you disagree with, Assassin. The "name calling" was warranted, because quite frankly you do look like an ass when you do this sort of thing. Like it or not, you are in a position where people will listen to what you say, thanks to your past contributions on this forum. Creating an entire thread with the intent of making someone else look foolish, or mocking that person, does not reflect well upon you. You can disagree with Mfusick over the relevance of what he posts, but you are not the sole arbiter of what this forum is for or about. An HTPC can mean a great many things to a great many people. Here's just a small sampling of the varied topics that can fall under the "HTPC" umbrella:
Watching/recording Live TV
Playing back DVD/Bluray
Ripping DVD/Bluray
Transcoding/compressing movie files
Playing back 4K video
Watching Netflix/Amazon video
Big screen gaming
Media Center extenders
XBOX 360
PlayStation 3
Wii U
Windows 7/8/Linux/MacOS
Android/iOS/Windows Phone 7/8
Video/music apps for phones/consoles/Win8
Music playback
XBMC/WMC/Plex
Media storage
Component comparison (hdd/sdd/cpu/mobo/psu/chassis)
I'm sure there are countless other topics that are relevant to something as ambiguously defined as "HTPC" that I haven't even though to mention here. If the attitude is going to be that anyone asking a question outside of your limited definition of HTPC should be mocked, then perhaps you need to reconsider participating? We had a similar problem when you tried to claim that ordering multiple hard drives in one set from a single shop was not a concern for an HTPC enthusiast, trying to make an absolute claim that was simply invalid. Yet you insisted it was valid simply because "most" HTPC enthusiasts didn't ever order more than 1 or 2 drives at a time. I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about computers or any other subject. I strongly suggest that you take the same approach, and learn to accept the opinions and views of others, because your tone, and the contents of this thread, really tells me that you don't respect what others view as relevant. That's awful bad for business for someone who is trying to make a profit selling those "guides".

You also missed the point entirely.

The point was that someone purported something as the "best". I (and quite a few others I might add) pointed out that it wasnt the "best" for various reasons.

Then the op took exception to this using the "you can't hide behind the "this is a htpc forum only" excuse" (yes, I used double quotes there).

So the point is you can't have it both ways. You also can't claim something is "best" in a niche forum and not come ready to back it up why it's worth the 100% increase in price.

This is just one of many many many of these types of posts lately. If my thread turned you off then so be it. But there are plenty of threads that turn me off and I either start saying something or just find other areas and places to spend my time.
post #42 of 86
post #43 of 86
My Assassin's Creed quote was freakin' gold

Guess I should go post it in the HTPC gaming forum tongue.gif
post #44 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

My Assassin's Creed quote was freakin' gold
Guess I should go post it in the HTPC gaming forum tongue.gif

I liked it. And I barely know what assassin's creed is.
post #45 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

My Assassin's Creed quote was freakin' gold
Guess I should go post it in the HTPC gaming forum tongue.gif

post #46 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I liked it. And I barely know what assassin's creed is.

You need to hang out in the gaming forum.

post #47 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I liked it. And I barely know what assassin's creed is.

Thanks,

I think Assassin's creed would be something like this
  • Use the guides
  • Don't be afraid to build
  • There are no stupid questions, but your question doesn't make any sense
  • Intel's g530 kicks assassin (that's double)
  • Keep non-HTPC tom-foolery to a minimum

Sorry, couldn't resist. Sometimes this gets fun

On that note, users over at your forum seem to think you can only transcode with the processor listed in this thread. Where are they getting their upstream connection from? Must be outside US wink.gif
post #48 of 86
Thread Starter 
I think avs should just rename this forum the "pc forum" or "pc and htpc forum". Seriously. That would help my sanity.

That and erase my memory of what this place was like a few years ago as it was incredibly more htpc-centric. Very much so. Surprised there aren't more PowerPoint and Microsoft word threads.
post #49 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Thanks,
I think Assassin's creed would be something like this
  • Use the guides
  • Don't be afraid to build
  • There are no stupid questions, but your question doesn't make any sense
  • Intel's g530 kicks assassin (that's double)
  • Keep non-HTPC tom-foolery to a minimum
Sorry, couldn't resist. Sometimes this gets fun
On that note, users over at your forum seem to think you can only transcode with the processor listed in this thread. Where are they getting their upstream connection from? Must be outside US wink.gif

Nice list.
post #50 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post


On that note, users over at your forum seem to think you can only transcode with the processor listed in this thread. Where are they getting their upstream connection from? Must be outside US wink.gif

Who's that and what forum ? Your joking right ?
post #51 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Who's that and what forum ? Your joking right ?

Anandtech HTPC, but I was being a tad trollish with that part, especially since I only lurk there 1 to 2 times / week at the most

The threads read something like, "Building new, looking to transcode" and someone drops in saying "You need at least an i5 to transcode, maybe go for an i7"

I know they are there, I'll dig later
post #52 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

If your looking for a funny laugh:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287333
I hope I am not that bad. haha...

That guy makes total sense to me.

And he's right ... PCs w/o SSDs suck.
post #53 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

In pure video playback, there are quite a few demanding Avisynth scripts that would benefit from high-performance processors. Outside video playback, there are tons of applications.

The i7-3930K is the sweet-spot performance/price wise for these scripts.
post #54 of 86
That's what I wrote in this post. smile.gif

I am not sure what people are talking about in this thread, but discussing high-end processors like Sandy Bridge-E is a proper subject of HTPC forums, for people with some knowledge on Avisynth scripts.
Edited by renethx - 12/4/12 at 10:19pm
post #55 of 86
Agreed. I was baited into these "discussions" before... discussing GPU power almost a year ago. Overbuying CPU/GPU power might incite buyers remorse, but underbuying.... that will just make you frustrated.

I really dig your recommendations for GPUs, renethx... you realize that there are those of us out there that like to use better than average kit to try to achieve better and better quality... even if these are diminishing returns. It's called Audio Video Science for a reason. Some people like to push what is possible, and i'm dismayed by the 'just be satisfied with average and enjoy your media' attitudes that have taken hold here over the years. if I just wanted to enjoy average... I would buy a blu-ray player and be done with it.
post #56 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Agreed. I was baited into these "discussions" before... discussing GPU power almost a year ago. Overbuying CPU/GPU power might incite buyers remorse, but underbuying.... that will just make you frustrated.
I really dig your recommendations for GPUs, renethx... you realize that there are those of us out there that like to use better than average kit to try to achieve better and better quality... even if these are diminishing returns. It's called Audio Video Science for a reason. Some people like to push what is possible, and i'm dismayed by the 'just be satisfied with average and enjoy your media' attitudes that have taken hold here over the years. if I just wanted to enjoy average... I would buy a blu-ray player and be done with it.

Pushing the envelope is fun. I get a big kick out of how small can I go -- size and powerwise. I am all excited about some new Celeron embedded motherboards. It takes every once of discipline I have not to order an Intel NUC. The only thing that holds me back is I can't build it myself. Cutting edge, any edge, makes this fun.
post #57 of 86

We have interesting times ahead. Intel has been talking about on chip gpu for years now but with HD4000 on Ivy Bridge we have a decent start, and with Haswell it will be a genuine contender I think.

 

Strictly speaking, HTPC cpu's became irrelevant the day a $10 integrated SoC like in many media players, or a cheap low power cpu, could do full hardware acceleration for 1080p x264, and that was years ago. Nowdays the only advantage is the realtime transcoding (QuickSync) and improvements in image quality which vary based on other factors.

 

How popular are gaming HTPC's these days? Its a constant compromise (gpu power vs heat/noise), I thought that particular segment is now dominated by consoles.

post #58 of 86
It's application-specific IC solutions vs. programmable IC solutions. The former is usually very power-efficient, but only available via the device driver (i.e. little room for users' customization). The latter is at the hands of users, but not so efficient. Examples:

- ASIC: Intel GPU (decoder/video processors), AMD's UVD, NVIDIA's VP, SoCs in media streamers and "appliances"
- PIC: CPU, GPU (via API such as Direct3D, OpenGL, OpenCL, CUDA, DirectCompute)

The majority of Intel codes run on ASIC (that's why there is no PQ difference between 2k/2.5k/3k/4k). AMD and NVIDIA use shader units (programmable ICs) via driver for VPP (that's why higher GPU supports more VPP).

ffdshow / libavcodec runs on CPU
Avisynth scripts run on CPU
x264 runs on CPU
MadVR runs on GPU via Direct3D.
SVP runs on both CPU and GPU (via OpenCL)

The majority of people will use ASIC solutions in video playback, but programmable solutions will remain popular among videophiles / enthusiasts because of high customizability.

There is no reason why HTPC forums must be restricted to ASIC solutions, of course. wink.gif
Edited by renethx - 12/5/12 at 12:11am
post #59 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post

How popular are gaming HTPC's these days? Its a constant compromise (gpu power vs heat/noise), I thought that particular segment is now dominated by consoles.

Consoles do dominate that segment, but with Steam having "Big Picture Mode", and rumors of some sort of new controller, the idea of a gaming HTPC could start to come back. I would love to build one if the controller issue can be resolved. Having my Steam library, as well as things like MAME and a library of classic console games/emulators available through an HTPC-style interface would be quite awesome.

You correctly point out that with simple off-the-shelf hardware being able to play back all the media that an HTPC can while costing way less makes the HTPC largely irrelevant for most people. It's the things beyond media playback that really seem to keep interest in this segment alive.
post #60 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

Pushing the envelope is fun. I get a big kick out of how small can I go -- size and powerwise. I am all excited about some new Celeron embedded motherboards. It takes every once of discipline I have not to order an Intel NUC. The only thing that holds me back is I can't build it myself. Cutting edge, any edge, makes this fun.

This is basically what I said in vector thread. Extremes in any end are interesting ( to me )

That includes extreme small, extreme big, extreme cheap, extreme performance.... Etc.

Ordinary is normal. Nothing wrong with that being 95% of what going on around here. Lets admit that it's that other 5% that's often most interesting.
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